Door Adjustments

[spikeygg]

I did a bad thing, one of the first days I was working on the car. :mallet:

I was using ratchets and I left one in the door sill on the passenger's side and slammed the door down on it. The door closed but it did not sit properly. I took a couple of seconds thinking about it, then opened the door to try again and I saw the ratchet. DAMN. Later that evening I noticed my lovely cracked windshield. It took a few hours (and lots of reading through the forum) before I realized that the two things were related. I haven't had the windshield replaced yet (waiting for it on backorder from DMC) but ever since that happened about a month ago that door doesn't close properly.

The seams look good but when I close the door it hits the rear striker's tip first so the door close sound is more like a clu-clunk instead of a nice shhh-unck. Also, and this may be unrelated, the exterior door handle seems to have a hard time releasing the door. When pulling up on the exterior door handle sometimes it makes a popping noise.

I took a picture of the rear latching mechanism and you can see the scoring from the rear striker.
45196

I also took a video of the exterior door handle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV8kxxICoI0

Any one know how to fix these two problems?

[81dmc]

I was using ratchets and I left one in the door sill on the passenger's side and slammed the door down on it. The door closed but it did not sit properly. I took a couple of seconds thinking about it, then opened the door to try again and I saw the ratchet. DAMN. Later that evening I noticed my lovely cracked windshield. It took a few hours (and lots of reading through the forum) before I realized that the two things were related. I haven't had the windshield replaced yet (waiting for it on backorder from DMC) but ever since that happened about a month ago that door doesn't close properly.

The seams look good but when I close the door it hits the rear striker's tip first so the door close sound is more like a clu-clunk instead of a nice shhh-unck.

You probably pushed your strikers out of alignment. You could have a helper slowly close the door while you inspect how the the pins line up. Also, as a last resort, it is possible to change the angle of the latches slightly by grinding the holes with a dremel.



Also, and this may be unrelated, the exterior door handle seems to have a hard time releasing the door. When pulling up on the exterior door handle sometimes it makes a popping noise.

I took a picture of the rear latching mechanism and you can see the scoring from the rear striker.

Any one know how to fix these two problems?

Pull apart the door panel and look at the entire mechanism. That would be the easiest way to find the culprit of that noise.

EDIT: Just noticed the scoring. If there is more than one washer shimming the pin, remove all but one, and that problem would be solved.

[spikeygg]

You probably pushed your strikers out of alignment. You could have a helper slowly close the door while you inspect how the the pins line up. Also, as a last resort, it is possible to change the angle of the latches slightly by grinding the holes with a dremel.



Pull apart the door panel and look at the entire mechanism. That would be the easiest way to find the culprit of that noise.

EDIT: Just noticed the scoring. If there is more than one washer shimming the pin, remove all but one, and that problem would be solved.

Thanks Rodolfo, I just went out and pulled the rear striker off the car and it looks like there are no shim washers in place, only the thick finishing piece.

I have the door panels off but I still don't know how to adjust it properly in order for everything to work well. I can see the back of the exterior door handle through the holes in the door and I can pull up on it while staring at the inside of the mechanism but I still cannot tell what is causing the popping sound.

[81dmc]

Thanks Rodolfo, I just went out and pulled the rear striker off the car and it looks like there are no shim washers in place, only the thick finishing piece.

I have the door panels off but I still don't know how to adjust it properly in order for everything to work well. I can see the back of the exterior door handle through the holes in the door and I can pull up on it while staring at the inside of the mechanism but I still cannot tell what is causing the popping sound.

It could be a latch. To test that, remove the latch rods from the crank and pull the handle. if there is no noise, the culprit could simply be the lock rods out of adjustment.

Also take a picture of the rear striker and post it.

[spikeygg]

It could be a latch. To test that, remove the latch rods from the crank and pull the handle. if there is no noise, the culprit could simply be the lock rods out of adjustment.

I took a quick look at the inside of the door and I'm not sure which part is the "crank". Are you referring to the four rods that connect to the sweeper thingie in this photo?

45205 45208


Also take a picture of the rear striker and post it.

Here are a couple of pictures of the rear striker, one with it installed and one with it removed.

4520645207

[81dmc]

I took a quick look at the inside of the door and I'm not sure which part is the "crank". Are you referring to the four rods that connect to the sweeper thingie in this photo?

45205 45208



Here are a couple of pictures of the rear striker, one with it installed and one with it removed.

4520645207

That is the lock crank. There is another one towards the top of the picture. That is the one I was referring to.

As for the striker, just buy a thinner washer.

[spikeygg]

That is the lock crank. There is another one towards the top of the picture. That is the one I was referring to.

As for the striker, just buy a thinner washer.

Ok, I'll hunt down a thinner washer to replace that one with.

I took another picture, are these two the latch crank rods?
45213

[81dmc]

I took another picture, are these two the latch crank rods?
45213

Yes.

[spikeygg]

Yes.

I pulled those off and it doesn't click when I pull up on the handle anymore. What does this mean? Can I adjust it out?

Here's a video I just took with the rods hooked up. The metal cable isn't getting pulled by the exterior door handle.

https://youtu.be/vjV9Gy2_lP0

https://youtu.be/vjV9Gy2_lP0

[81dmc]

I pulled those off and it doesn't click when I pull up on the handle anymore. What does this mean? Can I adjust it out?

Here's a video I just took with the rods hooked up. The metal cable isn't getting pulled by the exterior door handle.

https://youtu.be/vjV9Gy2_lP0

https://youtu.be/vjV9Gy2_lP0

Can you open the door from the interior without the pop? If so, remove the nuts to the exterior handle and remove the assembly. Take a video of the exterior handle while pulling it and post it. Hopefully it is not the handle.

[spikeygg]

Can you open the door from the interior without the pop? If so, remove the nuts to the exterior handle and remove the assembly. Take a video of the exterior handle while pulling it and post it. Hopefully it is not the handle.

While I was removing the nuts to the door, I saw the problem. The cable was a little too long at the door handle and there was slack. The ball on the end of the cable was caught by the tip of the scoop on the door handle and as you pulled the handle up it would "pop" as it slid into the groove where it should always be. I followed it back to the other end where the adjustment is and tightened it up. Now the handle works perfectly! Thanks for all the help Rodolfo!

I've taken the measurements of my washer and I'm looking for where to buy a thinner replacement.

Current specs:
OD: 1.31"
ID: 0.5"
Thickness: 0.2"

Do you have any suggestions of places where I might find a thinner washer this size?

[81dmc]

While I was removing the nuts to the door, I saw the problem. The cable was a little too long at the door handle and there was slack. The ball on the end of the cable was caught by the tip of the scoop on the door handle and as you pulled the handle up it would "pop" as it slid into the groove where it should always be. I followed it back to the other end where the adjustment is and tightened it up. Now the handle works perfectly! Thanks for all the help Rodolfo!

I've taken the measurements of my washer and I'm looking for where to buy a thinner replacement.

Current specs:
OD: 1.31"
ID: 0.5"
Thickness: 0.2"

Do you have any suggestions of places where I might find a thinner washer this size?
:thumbup:
Glad to hear you got the handle sorted out!

You may find a decent replacement washer at your local Ace Hardware. If that fails, just grind it. Also, you can slightly grind the striker at the flanged head. Try to make it half the thickness as the original size and all should be good.

[spikeygg]

Actually, I found out a few days ago that the adjustment I made to the exterior door handle was only a temporary fix. After talking to Stephen at DMC I took the exterior door handle off and inspected it. The adjustable end was really loose and would come apart pretty easily. I noticed a kink on the other end of the steel cable and I think it was creating enough friction to keep the door handle mechanism from resetting completely.

45447

Once I removed the exterior door handle I found that I could adjust all the latching points using the "DOOR LATCH AND LOCK SETTING PROCEDURES" service bulletin (http://www.dmcnews.com/bulletins/ST-10-8.81.html). I'm going to order another exterior door cable and hopefully it fixes this specific issue. Everything seems to work pretty well now but I have a question and one issue.

Question: Are you able to lock and unlock the passenger door when that door is open? I cannot, it resists being locked and will not go into that position. It's weird because my driver's side door has no problems what so ever. I can lock and unlock the door when it is opened or closed. Once I close the passenger's side door it seems to lock and unlock just fine but when it's open it resists being locked.

Issue: I have shaved down the washer on the passenger's side door that was hitting the end of the striker and it no longer hits the end of the striker. I have also made some adjustments on where the strikers are so that the door hits them at the same time. However, when I close that door it sound bad, like metal on metal. I can't tell where it's hitting to make that noise and it seems to be hitting both strikers at the same time but it definitely doesn't sound like the driver's side door when I close it. The passenger's side door makes a metal bang when I close it while the driver's side makes a nice shhhuck.

[Morpheus]

Question: Are you able to lock and unlock the passenger door when that door is open? I cannot, it resists being locked and will not go into that position. It's weird because my driver's side door has no problems what so ever. I can lock and unlock the door when it is opened or closed. Once I close the passenger's side door it seems to lock and unlock just fine but when it's open it resists being locked.


The normal function of the door latches is just as you describe. There is a wedge of plastic in the latches that prevents them from locking unless they are in the closed position. It is possible to grind off this wedge and thereby allow the doors to be locked while open (I have done this on my car, in fact), and there is a step by step procedure for it on the old DMCNews Yahoo groups site. I have attached the instructions here in the form of a .zip file. Credit to Wayne Ernst for creating the docs.
45536

[David T]

The normal function of the door latches is just as you describe. There is a wedge of plastic in the latches that prevents them from locking unless they are in the closed position. It is possible to grind off this wedge and thereby allow the doors to be locked while open (I have done this on my car, in fact), and there is a step by step procedure for it on the old DMCNews Yahoo groups site. I have attached the instructions here in the form of a .zip file. Credit to Wayne Ernst for creating the docs.
45536

When properly adjusted you should not be able to lock the doors when the doors are open. The mechanism in both doors is set up so that both doors and both latches in each door must be closed and in 2nd locking position to be able to lock the doors. That way you can tell if both doors are fully and completely closed. If you can lock a door when both latches are NOT in 2nd locking position something inside the doors is out-of-adjustment. I do not recommend modifying the locks to prevent that. It is a safety feature. Better to try to make the locks work as they should. If the doors don't work as they should it is often because both latches were not in 2nd locking position when closed and the lock was forced into the locked position bending the rods inside the door and messing up the adjustments. Often because the anchor pins are not properly adjusted and the door seals are all worn out. To do all of this properly you have to start at the beginning. The door must be aligned if necessary to close properly with equal gaps all around. The torsion bars need to be adjusted with good struts. The door seals should be replaced if "dead", flat, missing, or chopped up and torn. Now you adjust the anchor pins so both latches hit the 1st and 2nd locking positions simultaneously. Often the latch mechanism is sticky and needs to be removed, cleaned, greased, and reinstalled to work right. Finally you go through the whole internal door adjustment procedure at least once on each door. By the time you are done you will be an expert at it.

[dn010]

Did your windshield crack as a result of you closing the door down on the ratchet?

If so, I'd start looking at the condition of the roof box...

[Morpheus]

I do not recommend modifying the locks to prevent that. It is a safety feature. Better to try to make the locks work as they should. If the doors don't work as they should it is often because both latches were not in 2nd locking position when closed and the lock was forced into the locked position bending the rods inside the door and messing up the adjustments. Often because the anchor pins are not properly adjusted and the door seals are all worn out. To do all of this properly you have to start at the beginning.

All due respect, I have heard that DMCH does this modification to all new build cars and has for quite a while. If they are indeed doing this, then this so-called safety feature must not be so vital; in fact, this modification prevents the lock rods from bending and messing up the adjustments. It is explained very well in this snippet of Wayne's document:


Other cars can be locked whether a door is open or closed. That’s handy, but on a DeLorean, if you lock one closed door then slam the other one shut, your door will jam or malfunction. Not handy. Even if you just lock and unlock your doors with one door open, such as reaching across and flipping the lock switch hoping to free up a stuck door for your passenger, without closing the open door, it could still mess up the locking mechanism. Unexpected and very unhandy. A small triangle of plastic, an Anti-Lock Wedge, visible from the side of an uninstalled Door Latch near the Lift Tab, moves in the way of the Lift Tab, preventing it from moving into the lock position while the Striker Catch is in the “open door” position. In other words, opening the door makes it mechanically impossible to lock the door, even with a key. That, however, does not prevent a person still seated in the car from unnecessarily pushing the lock switch on a closed door by mistake, or someone closing and locking their door while the other one is open. On most cars this happens every day and it’s no big deal. On the DeLorean, it can force the Control Link Rods out of alignment, which is a nuisance to correct. It doesn’t always happen, but it does happen. That Anti-lock Wedge is the source of major inconveniences. If you’ve ever wondered why you can’t lock a DeLorean door while it’s open, this is why.

So, if this "wedge" is one of the main reasons lock rods and linkages fall out of alignment, why not remove the problem and eliminate it forever? If this mod is performed and the lock and latch procedure is done, it very likely won't ever need adjustment again.

[DMCMW Dave]

When properly adjusted you should not be able to lock the doors when the doors are open..

But people will lock one door (typically a passenger) while the other door is open. If the power locks are working, this will typically fry the solenoids unless you have the aftermarket "smart" lock controller.

Which is why there's no issue in my mind with doing the lock modification. I really don't see how it's a safety issue. My guess is that the lock mechanism was engineered for some other car that didn't have power door locks. It's definitely not a DMC-only part, there are way too many extra linkage points on the mechanism for that.

BTW with Wayne's permission DMCH has published the procedure as well on the "Knowledgebase" of the DMCH Website. More photos will be added to the how-to at some point in the near future.

[David T]

The other thing that is done is to remove the locking rod going to the front latch so it doesn't lock. Just because others do mods doesn't necessarily mean it is OK to do. Each owner should decide for themselves if they want to defeat an original safety feature. Disabling the Central Locking System is also defeating a safety feature. In an accident the inertia switch is supposed to unlock the doors AND shut off the fuel pump. The problem is not the "wedge" in the latch, it is that the doors can be forced out of adjustment. Another safety feature "forced" is the reverse lock-out. Occasionally I see the roll pin broken off because someone didn't know to lift the knob to get over the gate to get reverse. That doesn't mean we take the roll pin out! One safety feature never installed was a clutch start switch. Most newer cars have a switch so the car won't start unless you step on the clutch pedal. That way you can't start it in gear and have the car move. There are also capture brackets on the underside of the hood. If they are not adjusted correctly they won't capture the stop bolts and prevent the hood from entering the passenger compartment in the event of a front end collision. There are a lot of built-in safety features, the telescoping steering column, seat belts, safety glass, the roll over valve. Just because they may not function properly is no reason to disable them. On the contrary, every effort should be made to keep them functional. But that's just my opinion.

[DMCMW Dave]

The other thing that is done is to remove the locking rod going to the front latch so it doesn't lock. .

That one scares me, in the unlikely but possible event that the latch ever somehow locks itself due to vibration, getting that door unlocked is a huge problem. You'd have to take off the interior panel with the door closed, and reach up to the latch (with the rod missing) to flip it back to "unlock".

[spikeygg]

Did your windshield crack as a result of you closing the door down on the ratchet?

If so, I'd start looking at the condition of the roof box...

Sadly, I believe that it did. How do I check the condition of the roof box? Please be specific and assume that I don't know anything about the names of pieces...

[dn010]

See post 6 here :http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12499-How-concerned-should-I-be, also you can read the thread for more info.

Try to get some exterior views of the roof box as shown, under the torsion bar along the length to see how rusty that is. To see the inside, take stainless roof "T" panel off, there is an access plate on the roof box. You can take it off and if you do not have an inspection camera, you can stick your cell phone into the access with the light on and video rolling - do a 360 with the phone and then watch the video to see what the inside looks like. In order to remove the roof panel you must: Pull away the outer door seals where the T panel is and unscrew the 3 screws per side under the seal. Unbolt the rear louvers. Unscrew the long black plastic retaining strip that runs above the rear windscreen (3 small screws) and then you are able to lift up the rear of the T panel and slide it backwards. Stainless panels are sharp so wear gloves.

If the roof box is rusty and weak, it wouldn't take much with the doors to crack the windshield since it no longer has support.

[81dmc]

Sadly, I believe that it did. How do I check the condition of the roof box? Please be specific and assume that I don't know anything about the names of pieces...

First, open the louvers and remove the three screws holding the finisher (piece above rear glass).
EDIT: NEXT! Partially remove the outer weatherstrip and remove the three screws on each side.
Finally, lift off the T-panel ass first and remove the square access cover that is revealed. Use a flashlight and a pick. If pieces of the box are flaking off, it's time to visit www.delorean.eu for a replacement. When I replaced mine, I used 3m 5200 and 4 stainless M10 bolts to reinforce at the torsion bar brackets.

[dn010]

You're forgetting the screws that hold the panel down under the outer door seal. ;)

Also, I'd call Rob Grady first to see if he has any of the Delorean.eu stainless roof boxes available.


First, open the louvers and remove the three screws holding the finisher (piece above rear glass).
Next, lift off the T-panel ass first and remove the square access cover that is revealed. Use a flashlight and a pick. If pieces of the box are flaking off, it's time to visit www.delorean.eu for a replacement. When I replaced mine, I used 3m 5200 and 4 stainless M10 bolts to reinforce at the torsion bar brackets.

[81dmc]

You're forgetting the screws that hold the panel down under the outer door seal. ;)

Also, I'd call Rob Grady first to see if he has any of the Delorean.eu stainless roof boxes available.

:smashfreak:
Oh yeah!

My car's been a basket case since I've gotten it so I'm skipping some steps...

[spikeygg]

I took the top front vanity piece off above the windshield and there are some spots that look like they're rusting. Specifically on the passenger's side. I proceeded to take off the T-panel and inspect. It looks like the goop that was deposited in there did a pretty good job of weatherproofing. I took some photos and videos of the areas but this doesn't look as bad as dn010's photos looked...
45587 45602 45601 45600
45599 45598 45597 45596
45595 45594 45593 45592
45591 45590 45589 45588
4558645603

Passenger's Side (Worse)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m6dtReDATs

Driver's Side (Better)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74kgVJoPcs8

I also noticed that the torsion bar adjustment appears to be different between the two doors. I don't know if that's anything to worry about or not.

When reinstalling the T-panel should I attach the rear trim piece to the T-panel before reinstalling the T-panel? It doesn't seem like you can install the rear trim piece very easily after installing the T-panel.

[spikeygg]

So I finally got around to shooting a quick borescope video of my roof box and it looks pretty bad on the inside:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oBXgtJRdYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oBXgtJRdYk

I'm guessing that the roof box replacement isn't a DIY kinda thing. :(

[DMC5180]

While the inside may look ugly, what does the outside look like along the torsion bars and hinge points?


Dennis

[spikeygg]

While the inside may look ugly, what does the outside look like along the torsion bars and hinge points?

Hi Dennis, please see the post I made before the last video post I made. I took several pictures and two videos of the areas you're talking about. The outside is actually in pretty good shape.

[DMC5180]

DOH, guess I should have scrolled backwards on my phone. [emoji6]

Anyway, it looks like you might need to do something since the rust along the bottom corner behind the torsion bar appears to be deeper than surface. For now just keep an eye on it and enjoy driving the car.


Dennis

[dn010]

Sorry for the late post, I have not been around for a while. Your box doesn't look good, I'd add it to the list of things to do, especially if you need a new windshield. It is possible to replace the box without issues, but you'll be taking a big risk breaking the new windshield if you decide to replace the box at a later point in time.