Pivot Bolt issue: Captive nut has broken loose. What to do?

[Morpheus]

Hey boys and girls,

I decided to replace my shift bushings today because my shifter is kind of sloppy. I have done some reading here and there and saw that changing the bushings can improve shifter feel, so I figured it could only improve the situation. That's when I ran across this little problem:
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Damn sideways pictures. Anyway, you can sort of make out the round area of missing epoxy. The nut is just loose there, which creates a lot of slop in the linkage. If not for the lock nut on there, I'm sure it would be long gone. My worry is that I am putting too much stress on the pivot bolt will cause it to snap.

How should I fix this?

[dn010]

Find a way to cover the fuel hoses, dremal the epoxy away and weld the nut back. It's too bad I'm an hour away or I'd offer help!

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[Morpheus]

I don't have any welding equipment, does anyone else in the central FL area?

[dn010]

If all else fails, I might be out that way next weekend to pick up an engine block. I have both MIG and stick welder/plasma cutter.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Don't know how much of the nut you can weld. Maybe just the front side since the MIG gun can't fit in there.

[dn010]

I just crawled under my car with the gun - without the nut and bolt in the way, I am pretty confident I could access the entire thing with my MIG welder. It may be a little messy but seems doable to me. But, my arrangement seems different? Early VIN frame, #308:

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[dn010]

I just did a mock trial and at the very least, the top and sides can be done with the nut protruding as pictured. That should be enough, no?

[BladeBronson]

I just want to say that you're awesome for swooping in with a welder to help out.

[David T]

Very important to get that nut welded in and PERPENDICULAR. The best way to do that is to mock up a bolt and some nuts to hold everything nice and tight and straight. Be careful not to get any weld on the threads of the nut. If necessary grind everything flat and clean before welding in the nut removing any old welds. Refer to ST-19-10/81. The bell crank must move freely but there can't be much play or you put a bending force on the pivot bolt and it will break eventually. Always keep a spare pivot bolt in your glove box.

[dn010]

I'd suggest to weld the nut in place with a junk bolt threaded in it to the bottom only, that way no slag or little balls of weld will find it's way onto the threads...

[Morpheus]

If all else fails, I might be out that way next weekend to pick up an engine block. I have both MIG and stick welder/plasma cutter.


I would be forever grateful if you could do this!

My alternative was going to be to remove the welded nut and MacGuyver a temp solution. I'd much rather fix it right from the get go.

It looks like your car suffered a similar fate, is that nut welded on or just tightened like crazy?


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[dn010]

It would be no problem, I'll know later this week whether the engine will be available or not (Nissan engine, nothing exciting). I was supposed to get one Saturday morning in Spring Hill but prior to leaving I call the yard to make sure it's there, only for them to say the block was "destroyed", glad I didn't drive the two hour trip for no reason.

My frame doesn't have any evidence of being fixed, but it is definitely not the same as yours. In your picture, the nut protrudes from the bottom of that plate. On my frame, the nut protrudes on top and is flat on the bottom - I guess it is just another variation on these frames. I am not sure why I have so many more threads than yours, the pivot bolt must be longer.

[Morpheus]

I was able to remove the pivot bellcrank and it looks like the area is pretty clean. I'll clean it up a little more with a Dremel, though.

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What sort of nut should I go purchase to weld in place? Zinc plated? Stainlesss? Other?

[dn010]

That looks pretty clean. I would use a regular steel or possibly plated nut to make it an easy experience. Welding stainless is a bit involved.

[David T]

That looks pretty clean. I would use a regular steel or possibly plated nut to make it an easy experience. Welding stainless is a bit involved.

Or if you want a bit more materiel to weld to you can take a small piece of steel, drill a hole in it and tap it, It will be a lot stronger and give you a lot more room to weld to.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Or if you want a bit more materiel to weld to you can take a small piece of steel, drill a hole in it and tap it, It will be a lot stronger and give you a lot more room to weld to.

As long as it does not change the length of the shoulder bolt.

[Nicholas R]

Or if you want a bit more materiel to weld to you can take a small piece of steel, drill a hole in it and tap it, It will be a lot stronger and give you a lot more room to weld to.

I disagree; the steel used in hardware is forged, hardened, and tempered. A tapped piece of mild steel is not going to be as strong. This is a pretty critical bolt; last thing I would want is weak threads here.

Brandon, if you really wanted to do it right you could buy a weld nut. These have a small shoulder to help center it. However, you have to be sure that the hole in the frame fits the shoulder.

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Otherwise, I would stick to a standard steel hex nut. If you've got a dummy bolt in the nut, it should be well centered anyway. Any type of plating is just going to burn off when you weld it. Really you'd probably want to remove any plating before you weld it anyway with a wire wheel.

[Morpheus]

I disagree; the steel used in hardware is forged, hardened, and tempered. A tapped piece of mild steel is not going to be as strong. This is a pretty critical bolt; last thing I would want is weak threads here.

Brandon, if you really wanted to do it right you could buy a weld nut. These have a small shoulder to help center it. However, you have to be sure that the hole in the frame fits the shoulder.

46022

Otherwise, I would stick to a standard steel hex nut. If you've got a dummy bolt in the nut, it should be well centered anyway. Any type of plating is just going to burn off when you weld it. Really you'd probably want to remove any plating before you weld it anyway with a wire wheel.

That looks like EXACTLY what I need. I wasn't sure that this kind of thing existed! Since the hole in the frame is larger than the 8MM nut that needs welding in, I was worried about getting it centered like others have mentioned. I hate to have to buy a box of 50 to accomplish this, but I gotta do what I gotta do.

[David T]

Unless you are buying something special most nuts will be mild steel maybe with some plating on it. What you really want is called a "heavy" nut, it is the same size internal threads but it is a size larger on the OD. That way it won't heat up and deform as much when you weld it. The "proper" thing is a "Weld Nut". It is a nut with tabs on it that you weld to but they aren't easy to get in small quantities. I agree it is a critical part but if you do it right it isn't a big deal. When you are all done you may have to shim the shoulder bolt with washers to get the play out of the bell crank. The way to weld the nut is to clean all of the surfaces removing any plating or epoxy paint. Get an ordinary bolt and some nuts and mock up the nut into place. Weld it up and then remove the bolt and nuts. Install the bell crank with the special shoulder (pivot) bolt. Adjust if necessary. Check the rubber bushings in the ends of the links and if they are worn they should be replaced.

[Morpheus]

Just ordered the 50 pack of weld nuts from McMaster. They should be here in a couple of days.

The car needs to be mobile by Saturday night, so I'm hoping that dn010 is able to help me!