Front End Advice

[Trstno1]

Hey guys! -

Well I hate to say it but I think summer may be coming to an end folks..... Though this summer has been a blast! I drove my D every chance I got and even won my first trophy in a car show for best sports car!! However even though I haven't put the car away just yet I have started to turn my attention the next step in the winter rolling restoration. The front end.

When I purchased my car I had knew it was gonna need some love. As long as I have owned it I have attempted to compartmentalize things that needed to be restored and try to get them done in sections. Since I finished the journey to the VOD and back last winter and finally have the D running well, I thought this winter would be a perfect time front end rebuild. The plan is to take the whole front end apart in order to restore/replace everything that needs worked out. Ever since I first took ownership of my D I had noticed it needed some epoxy work on the front frame extension, the gear box on the steering rack is leaking fluid, the lower control arms are a little bent up, both shocks are weeping, my car doesn't have the front end recall kit, and I'm missing the steering column bushing completely. Definitely things that need sorting out. I also figured while I was in there I would install a set of front lowering springs to finally get the look I have always desired. :headbang:

Now here is the main question. With this sort of situation I will be replacing the steering rack, lower control arms, shocks, springs, bushings, etc, etc..... Is there one vendor that has a better quality on certain front end items than another? Like, should I go for a new steering rack from DMC or a rebuilt one via Hervey? Hervey's easy rider shocks or something else? Has anyone been unhappy with reworked lower control arms from Hervey? Opinions on front lowering springs? Does anyone sell a complete poly front end bushing kit that includes the sway bar bushings?

Any advice, tips, or specialty tools needed for the disassembly or to prevent any unwanted damage from occurring?



As always, thanks for all your help in advance. The information on this forum has been invaluable to the restoration of 5625.

[Soundkillr]

Moved to general. I think you will have better luck there...

[Andrew]

Upgraded LCA's are a wise investment in any DeLorean. I have done front end upgrades on both of my DeLorean's as follows:

4194

DeLorean EU LCA's
DeLorean EU Outriggers
Borgeson Vibration Reducing U-Joint
Hervey Shocks
PJ Grady Lowering Springs

5052

Byrne Heninger LCA's
Spittybug Thrust Arms
Borgeson Vibration Reducing U-Joint
Stock shocks
Cut front springs
Rebuilt Rack

Both Ed and Byrne's LCAs are great products and much sturdier than stock. I weighed both prior to installing them and confirmed that they both weighed about 7 pounds...which is approximately twice as much as stock!

The LCA braces make a noticible difference as well.
Finally, I highly recommend the vibration reducing u-joint. It really transforms the DeLorean driving experience!

Best of luck,

Andrew
4194
5052
Bricklin 177

[David T]

If you don't have any play (looseness) in the steering rack it may just need new boots. If you lower the front you will want to lower the back too. Make sure you get a GOOD spring compressor and use it safely. Replace the brake hoses while you are at it. While you are taking the front end apart you may want to replace the radiator. I would also drop the washer bottle and clean things up.Clean up the ground connection on the front, left corner of the frame. Check the front wheel bearings and replace them if necessary. Lubricate the angle drive and the drive cable. Check that both horns work. When you are all done you might want to take it for a 4 wheel alignment and tire balance especially if you are going to lower it.

[BladeBronson]

One of the absolutely highest-quality parts I added to my first DeLorean (12 years ago or so), was a steering rack from PJ Grady. I had a really sloppy original rack and DMC Garden Grove sold me another rack, which was equally terrible. I want to say that they might've even put in a second lousy one before I insisted that they source a rack from Rob at PJ Grady. Even just by looking at it you could see how completely superior the rack was. Run, don't walk to a phone and call Rob. :)

[Trstno1]

Upgraded LCA's are a wise investment in any DeLorean. I have done front end upgrades on both of my DeLorean's as follows:

4194

DeLorean EU LCA's
DeLorean EU Outriggers
Borgeson Vibration Reducing U-Joint
Hervey Shocks
PJ Grady Lowering Springs

5052

Byrne Heninger LCA's
Spittybug Thrust Arms
Borgeson Vibration Reducing U-Joint
Stock shocks
Cut front springs
Rebuilt Rack

Both Ed and Byrne's LCAs are great products and much sturdier than stock. I weighed both prior to installing them and confirmed that they both weighed about 7 pounds...which is approximately twice as much as stock!

The LCA braces make a noticible difference as well.
Finally, I highly recommend the vibration reducing u-joint. It really transforms the DeLorean driving experience!

Best of luck,

Andrew
4194
5052
Bricklin 177


where can you purchase the vibration reducing U-joints? Also what are the EU outriggers and spittybug thrust arms? LCA arm supports? Do you know of anyone purchased Hervey's front lowering springs?

[Trstno1]

If you don't have any play (looseness) in the steering rack it may just need new boots. If you lower the front you will want to lower the back too. Make sure you get a GOOD spring compressor and use it safely. Replace the brake hoses while you are at it. While you are taking the front end apart you may want to replace the radiator. I would also drop the washer bottle and clean things up.Clean up the ground connection on the front, left corner of the frame. Check the front wheel bearings and replace them if necessary. Lubricate the angle drive and the drive cable. Check that both horns work. When you are all done you might want to take it for a 4 wheel alignment and tire balance especially if you are going to lower it.

Would it be unsafe to just lower the front without lowering the back? I was thinking that I would be just going back to a more original Lotus spec.

[Trstno1]

One of the absolutely highest-quality parts I added to my first DeLorean (12 years ago or so), was a steering rack from PJ Grady. I had a really sloppy original rack and DMC Garden Grove sold me another rack, which was equally terrible. I want to say that they might've even put in a second lousy one before I insisted that they source a rack from Rob at PJ Grady. Even just by looking at it you could see how completely superior the rack was. Run, don't walk to a phone and call Rob. :)

I'm certainly a fan of Rob's tail light boards, so good call, I'll check him out. Do you know if they are new or rebuilds from Grady?

[David T]

There is no documentation that anyone can produce that has anything different from the original Delorean specs for the front end. There is hearsay and anecdotal evidence that it was supposed to be lower but nothing tangible. If you lower the car significantly you must adjust the camber front and rear and the toe in the front. Not easy to do but possible. You will lose suspension travel and ground clearance.

[Gregadeth]

Would it be unsafe to just lower the front without lowering the back? I was thinking that I would be just going back to a more original Lotus spec.Nothing unsafe about it, a lot of owners have done just that and are happy with it. From pics I've seen though I think it looks a little unbalanced (the rear still looks a little too high), just my opinion though. Also, original Lotus spec had all four corners lower, not just the front (look at pics of the prototypes to see what I mean).

[Drive Stainless]

There is no documentation that anyone can produce that has anything different from the original Delorean specs for the front end. .

Parnham et al., Celebrating the Impossible
Pages 28-29.
Giugiaro's initial design drawing for the DMC-12.
Height of front fender wheel arch is shown as 610mm = 24.015 inches.
This is lower than the stock front-end ride height.


This is exactly the front ride height that I suggest for use with the QA1 coilover kit that I sell. Shown here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DeLorean-QA1-Coilover-Suspension-/291553136404?hash=item43e1ebcf14:g:rxAAAOSwd0BV5J~ r&vxp=mtr

[DMC-81]

Parnham et al., Celebrating the Impossible
Pages 28-29.
Giugiaro's initial design drawing for the DMC-12.
Height of front fender wheel arch is shown as 610mm = 24.015 inches.
This is lower than the stock front-end ride height.


This is exactly the front ride height that I suggest for use with the QA1 coilover kit that I sell. Shown here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DeLorean-QA1-Coilover-Suspension-/291553136404?hash=item43e1ebcf14:g:rxAAAOSwd0BV5J~ r&vxp=mtr

Cool. Just curious...I wonder if there is a specification for the rear?

[Drive Stainless]

Cool. Just curious...I wonder if there is a specification for the rear?

No, the dimensions shown in the drawing are scant, actually. Only a handful of figures.

[Andrew]

where can you purchase the vibration reducing U-joints? Also what are the EU outriggers and spittybug thrust arms? LCA arm supports? Do you know of anyone purchased Hervey's front lowering springs?

The vibration reducing reducing U-Joint can be purchased directly from Borgeson. It isolates the steering wheel from road vibration. Think of it as a less space consuming rag joint (the clearance in the DeLorean is too limited to fit a traditional rag joint). Call Borgeson and ask for Gil, he has all the part numbers that are needed. A number of other owners have done this mod, and I have not heard any negative feedback.

The DMC EU outriggers and Spittybug thrust arms both serve to reduce fore and aft movement of the LCAs. The EU product essentially transforms the LCA into a wishbone. the Spittybug thrust arm is exactly that, a thrust arm. There is a lot of information on these products on the forums. There is also a really informative video showing just how much movement the stock LCA's experience during acceleration and braking. The results are concerning to say the least.

I cant speak provide an opinion on the Hervey springs as I havent heard anything about them either way.

[FABombjoy]

There is hearsay and anecdotal evidence that it was supposed to be lower but nothing tangible.
I would think that the steering rack tie rods having a significant downward angle would suggest otherwise.

The knuckles could have been made so the rod ends connected topside which would have straightened the rack geometry and improved joint wear and steering effort.

[David T]

Parnham et al., Celebrating the Impossible
Pages 28-29.
Giugiaro's initial design drawing for the DMC-12.
Height of front fender wheel arch is shown as 610mm = 24.015 inches.
This is lower than the stock front-end ride height.


This is exactly the front ride height that I suggest for use with the QA1 coilover kit that I sell. Shown here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DeLorean-QA1-Coilover-Suspension-/291553136404?hash=item43e1ebcf14:g:rxAAAOSwd0BV5J~ r&vxp=mtr

None of this is from a "Primary Source". There is nothing to suggest the height of the production Delorean is anything but what is published in the specs. It is not uncommon for a production car to differ from the initial design. My guess is they were thinking of going lower in the beginning but came to realize quickly that the US specs did not allow it. Anyway the suspension was built to the current ride height. Lowering the ride height reduces the suspension travel. If the suspension was designed for the lower height it would have been made differently so as to retain the suspension travel and the camber would be compensated for.

[Drive Stainless]

I second Luke's observations.

Whether you consider Giugiaro a primary source is arguable. He did design the proportions of our car and with specificity. An untrained observer can look at the car as it left the factory and immediately note the disparity in wheel-fender gap in the front when compared with the rear. If you think this was intentional, then you're not giving the designers and engineers their due credit.

My car is lowered, and the camber is still within spec. I'll post later with a snapshot of my alignment results.

With respect to travel, you must mean compression alone. The car, being as light as it is in the front end, does not need more than 2-3 inches of travel to feel comfortable. If you want to catch air over speed bumps, then your specifications will be very different.