DeLorean and Donald Trump Connection

[SBESPN]

"His former estate in the rolling hills about 40 miles west of New York City was converted into a golf course by Donald Trump in 2004."

[David T]

"His former estate in the rolling hills about 40 miles west of New York City was converted into a golf course by Donald Trump in 2004."

That was the JZD estate in Bedminster, NJ. It was the largest (474 acres) privately held parcel of land in the State of NJ and when JZD went bankrupt he had a plan to pay off the creditors an incredible 93%. The judge rejected it and forced the sale to a company to convert it to a golf resort. That company went broke and Trump bought it from them. It has frontage on Route 287. I have been there and the place is beautiful. Trump spent a fortune there to make it what it now is. The house is the clubhouse and the bar has pictures all over it of "The Donald".

[SBESPN]

Interesting, I had never heard that. Thanks for the info!

[Henrik]

Interesting excerpt from this link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_National_Golf_Club_(Bedminster,_New_Jersey)) : "... some of its members include former president Bill Clinton..."

[Michael]

If Trump bought the estate from another seller...did JZD still live there? Wasn't that his residence at the time of his death?

[louielouie2000]

If Trump bought the estate from DeLorean...did JZD still live there? Wasn't that his residence at the time of his death?

No, from what I understand JZD lived out his final years in a condo, and his final illness was in an assisted living/hospice type facility.

[DMCVegas]

If Trump bought the estate from another seller...did JZD still live there? Wasn't that his residence at the time of his death?

No, it was not his residence at the time of his passing. That address, if I am not mistake, was an apartment/condo in the area. Once he suffered a stroke, he was discharged directly to a hospice where he passed away shortly thereafter.

The other aspect is that I believe that the property was sold for about $13-$15 million to settle DeLorean's outstanding bankruptcy debts. The home had a rather decent amount of "deferred maintenance" issues though for converting it into a clubhouse. So a resale after the fact of $35 million is a rather significant increase of almost $20,000,000. Though it is not entirely clear if Trump himself would have been involved with the sale. Much like the Hilton hotel group, he doesn't actually own many of the development projects which bear his name. Rather it is a licensing agreement for other companies to use the brand.

[David T]

There was a whole lot more to the estate than some "deferred maintenance" on the main residence. The property is HUGE and includes wetlands that needed work and environmental areas that needed to be cleaned up. There is significant infrastructure including bridges, roads, water lines, sewer lines, lighting, wells, etc and it all was in dismal condition. From what I saw of the property, there were a lot of new buildings and the ones that were not removed were all fixed up very nicely. An enormous amount of work creating the golf course and the greens was done. A new front gatehouse and of course all of the signs. All JZD ever did was fix up a few of the bedrooms in the main house. The kitchen was a wreck. I guess he just didn't have the funds to take care of the place. JZD also had a ranch on the west coast that he sold to buy this estate.

[DMCVegas]

That's why I put deferred maintenance in quotes as a bit of tongue-in-cheek referencing. The house wasn't quite Miss Havisham's mansion, but it was on the road to it.

What other property did JZD have out west, other than his Pauma Valley place outside of San Diego? I know he didn't sell that to buy Bedminster, because PV was collateral for his bail and/or a retainer for his first set of lawyers.

[Patrick C]

NO POLITICAL DEBATE...photo provided for historical reference only. See our new President-elect meeting Mitt Romney on the steps of John DeLorean's old house today. Compare with a photo of JZD and Tamir Ardon in the same location in 1999. Photos taken from the New York Times and Tamir's site (www.entermyworld.com)

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=47425&d=1479584092

[Rich_NYS]

Cool!

What's the story on the house.....did Trump buy it?

[mr_maxime]

I didnt know that Tamir and JZD starred in a miami vice reboot.

[Timebender]

Cool!

What's the story on the house.....did Trump buy it?

Yes- It was up for sale by the government or something like that, Trump bought it way back then and then turned it into a golf resort if I'm correct.

[Patrick C]

Cool!

What's the story on the house.....did Trump buy it?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nj.com/articles/19698300/7_things_to_know_about_donald_trumps_bedminster_go .amp?client=safari

[DMCVegas]

Yes- It was up for sale by the government or something like that, Trump bought it way back then and then turned it into a golf resort if I'm correct.

JZD himself was forced into a court-mandated bankruptcy to repay his debts owed from his previous trials, etc. The home went up for auction and De Lorean was evicted. Not only that, his furniture, art, and everything else inside of the house was also seized as part of the bankruptcy, and was separately liquidated with all proceeds also going to his creditors. So if there was any other special and unique memorabilia, that has most likely been lost forever.

Apparently Bedminster is supposed to really be a special place for those who go there, and Trump in particular. The article I found says that not only does Trump spend allot of time there, and even wanted to build a family cemetery on site, but it has been a major operational site for his political aspirations.

[EDIT: I see Patrick already provided this link]

There are not many pictures of the interior of the home or the rest of the property. And I don't imagine that there will be in the near future. I'm sure that soon enough Google Earth will most likely start blurring out the site for security reasons. But more importantly, Trump can't keep shutting down the entire Lincoln tunnel for his motorcade. It also is a pretty damn dangerous route given both it's static location and underwater aspects. So I imagine instead of Trump Tower, Bedminster will most likely become his new home away from D.C. for safety reasons.

I'm not trying to be political here at all, but what does worry me is that JZD by way of Bedminster may end up getting tethered to Trump in snarky jokes as a negative aspect in the quest to criticize him. Thus the marque takes another hit.

It looks like once again the De Lorean saga renews itself again to stay relevant to modern news.

[David T]

During the bankruptcy JZD offered a plan to repay the creditors over 90 cents on the dollar. Typically unheard of getting better than 50 cents. The judge refused to OK the plan and forced the sale. It went to a company to turn it into a golf resort and they went broke. Trump bought it and spent a fortune making it one of the best golf courses in the country. It is the largest estate in New Jersey owned by a private person consisting of 454 acres with frontage on Route 287. The DMA has been there several times as have some members on their own. It is only a few miles from where the Eastern QAC was in Bridgewater. While it may become his "other" home, it is still a very busy golf course and if President Trump was to be there often it would seriously interfere with the golf course's operations. It would be easier to secure it than Trump Tower. Plenty of room to build a heliport. He also has Camp David in Maryland to go to after 1/20/17. As I see it this can only enhance the Delorean's image assuming things go well during the new administration.

[David T]

I found some pictures I took when I was there at a charity event early this year.
1 On the green
2 The cars on the green behind the clubhouse (JZD's house)
3 The pro shop across from the entrance to the house (Used to be a garage)
4 The bar just inside behind the foyer to the right
5 The foyer with the grand staircase just inside the front door (used to have the green carpet)
6 The front door
7 An angle shot of the front door

[Dangermouse]

So the property in Patrick's first two pictures is the former JZD mansion and current Clubhouse? I assume Trump doesn't actually live in that building and is just using its meeting facilities; perhaps he has business offices in the clubhouse?

There seems to be another house in the NW corner of the property that I assume is the actual Trump residence.

[David T]

There could still be bedrooms upstairs in the clubhouse. There are buildings all over the property and there is a private motel on the property nearby. There is a large villa on the property too. He did stay on the property Saturday night. There are meeting rooms and offices in the clubhouse. From now on you are never going to know exactly where he is for security reasons unless you see him on TV.

[DMCVegas]

It's hard to say. Official records state that there are 5 cottages, 2 of which are occupied by the Trumps, and then a barn that was converted into 9 suites.

But scanning over the property, there are mystery buildings all over. There is also a cell tower on the south end of the property, next to the expressway. This could definitely have helped maintain an income for JZD while he lived on the property.

Seems like a sad end for the property though as a golf course.

[David T]

JZD's plan was to convert a portion of the property to a golf course and equestrian training center as pat of the bankruptcy plan. Then the golf resort tried and went broke. Trump was able to do it all just as a golf course. Actually being a golf course and rehabbing the house into a clubhouse kept the property intact. Other possible uses included breaking the property up into developments, hotels, shopping centers, etc. A golf course is not the worst thing that could have happened. And he did it first class sparing no expense to make it VERY nice. When JZD had the property it was in very neglected condition. Even with a cell tower paying rent the taxes on the property have to be enormous. Then ther is the staff, the upkeep, etc. No small investment. There are also environmental problems that had to be dealt with. We all know the condition of the main road was terrible and all by itself would cost a small fortune to fix. Well, it's all fixed now!

[Tamir A.]

hahaha. Yeah, can't believe the baggy clothes I used to wear. I was lucky enough to visit John there while he lived there. I also had the opportunity to tour the property shortly after Trump took it over and I filmed the entire tour by the original groundskeeper whom had been taking care of the place while JZD was living there. So he gave a detailed layout and description of what each building was used for, etc.

T.



I didnt know that Tamir and JZD starred in a miami vice reboot.

[louielouie2000]

Looks to only be a local interest story so far:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/7_things_to_know_about_donald_trumps_bedminster_go .html

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/trump_arrives_in_nj_for_weekend_christie_to_join_h .html

[David T]

hahaha. Yeah, can't believe the baggy clothes I used to wear. I was lucky enough to visit John there while he lived there. I also had the opportunity to tour the property shortly after Trump took it over and I filmed the entire tour by the original groundskeeper whom had been taking care of the place while JZD was living there. So he gave a detailed layout and description of what each building was used for, etc.

T.

The caretaker was Ed Russo, a really nice guy. He took us (the DMA) around too on an abbreviated tour. Pointed out the pond where one of JZD's dogs fell in and other things. Had a lot of history to tell, he was there for a long time. Said he was moving to Florida. When I was there for the car show few knew the connection to the Delorean and JZD.

[DMCVegas]

So on a related note, what is the history of the property before JZD purchased it?

[opethmike]

47446

[Mario]

47446

Just because conversation includes a political figure does not make it "politics"... I only saw one post that was even kind of political.

[DMCVegas]

JZD's plan was to convert a portion of the property to a golf course and equestrian training center as pat of the bankruptcy plan. Then the golf resort tried and went broke. Trump was able to do it all just as a golf course. Actually being a golf course and rehabbing the house into a clubhouse kept the property intact. Other possible uses included breaking the property up into developments, hotels, shopping centers, etc. A golf course is not the worst thing that could have happened. And he did it first class sparing no expense to make it VERY nice. When JZD had the property it was in very neglected condition. Even with a cell tower paying rent the taxes on the property have to be enormous. Then ther is the staff, the upkeep, etc. No small investment. There are also environmental problems that had to be dealt with. We all know the condition of the main road was terrible and all by itself would cost a small fortune to fix. Well, it's all fixed now!

It is hard to say what exactly the reasoning was by the judge to reject any plans that JZD had. But if I were to be brutally honest, the resulting fiasco with the sale of Logan Manufacturing may very well have influenced the decision to force bankruptcy. Litigation from the LMC sale had continued for years up until De Lorean's death. So it may have been possible that the judge was trying to avert another complicated mess of shell corporations and their convoluted hierarchy by just enacting the proverbial "nuclear option" of mandated bankruptcy to immediately secure cash for the creditors.

The cell tower wasn't the only source of income. LMC was for many, many years, as was the massive income from its eventual sale. The funny thing about property taxes though is that they're based upon the value of the land. So JZD keeping his property undeveloped was probably one of the big reasons I have heard that his neighbors loved him. All of those property improvements come with a severe cost to the rest of the surrounding lands, and have most definitely shot property taxes up for everyone else.

Admittedly, yes, I am a bit biased against golf. It's a fun enough game to play, boring as all hell to watch, but the culture of many, not all but most people I have encountered, has been rather off-putting and not a fun one to be apart of. An equestrian center would have been a far better idea, sub-dividing the land for other mansions, or even just donating the property to a conservancy to create a wildlife habitat would have been better than just making yet another golf course. But that's a personal opinion there.

[David T]

Most towns like golf courses. It keeps large areas from getting developed and swamping the school system with kids. Although it does not generate a lot of tax revenue, the business does generate some and so do all of the people that come and go. In a nearby town to me there was a plan submitted to turn a golf course into a golf resort for Japanese businessmen. It is so expensive to play golf in Japan that it is cheaper for them to come here on a vacation and play! Never got anywhere but that is the economics of it. I can't speak as to why the judge would not accept JZD's plan but it would have saved his house and paid off the creditors. In the end everyone got screwed when the golf resort's deal went bad. Cell towers do not generate all that much income. Depends on the # of carriers and how much they have to invest to get it built and all of the permits and such. A typical tower has about a 1/2 dozen or so carriers so you might see $10,000 a month. That might sound like a lot but put that # next to the tax bill for the place and it will look small by comparison. What can make a LOT of money is one of those new electronic billboard signs. With all that frontage on Rt 78 that is what I would do! Right now all you can see is a big flagpole and a big American flag. An equestrian center makes sense too, that area of NJ has a lot of horse farms. With all of that acreage you could have a big riding academy. I guess Trump isn't into horses, only golf.

[Henrik]

So... the very house in Bedminster, NJ where we see pictures in the news of our President Elect shaking hands with people that are vying for a cabinet position - is the former home of JZD. Interesting.

http://www.trumpnationalbedminster.com/

[DMCVegas]

That is correct, yes.

[DMCVegas]

Most towns like golf courses. It keeps large areas from getting developed and swamping the school system with kids.

Ah yes, the fear of children which was/is the byproduct of the book, The Population Bomb. I can tell you for a fact that it goes allot further than just reducing the labor on school districts. Golf courses were also apart of community planning that helped block out schools entirely to keep children out as a somewhat crude means of population control. Something that Douglas Coupland wrote about and documented. But that is a whole other topic for another time.

Golf overall has been in severe decline though. The courses are too water dependent, and the sport itself is just way too expensive. It's why so many courses & clubs continue to shut down each year, and the trend now is to rip out the greens for more homes, as well as parks for families such as down in Arizona. I mean, Top Golf is fun, but it's also far cheaper too. But still, it's a sport in decline. So at this rate a new course is pretty much just cannibalizing the membership of another.



I can't speak as to why the judge would not accept JZD's plan but it would have saved his house and paid off the creditors. In the end everyone got screwed when the golf resort's deal went bad. Cell towers do not generate all that much income. Depends on the # of carriers and how much they have to invest to get it built and all of the permits and such. A typical tower has about a 1/2 dozen or so carriers so you might see $10,000 a month. That might sound like a lot but put that # next to the tax bill for the place and it will look small by comparison. What can make a LOT of money is one of those new electronic billboard signs. With all that frontage on Rt 78 that is what I would do! Right now all you can see is a big flagpole and a big American flag. An equestrian center makes sense too, that area of NJ has a lot of horse farms. With all of that acreage you could have a big riding academy. I guess Trump isn't into horses, only golf.

It has been said that JZD had a great relationship with his neighbors and the town of Bedminster, even allowing fox hunts across his estate. A cell tower was certainly needed, and on the backside of the property against the interstate it was as least invasive as possible. So while billboards would have been profitable for JZD, I doubt that his neighbors would have appreciated it. And angering them was probably the last thing he wanted to do.

Like I say, there was a pattern with JZD and his elusiveness post-DMC with his finances. Many things I totally understand. Split up LMC to be it's own individual corporation, and then sell the land under the facility to another corporation so that LMC had to pay fees for leasing the buildings and property to take the tax deductions as an operating expense. Then have a management company that controls both, but it just gets so convoluted. Here you can start to see how they were pulling teeth dealing with the man during the lawsuit: https://www.scribd.com/document/317647873/Ecclesiastes-9-10-11-v-LMC-Holding-Company-10th-Cir-2007

Seeing what LMC Holdings had been going through for almost 7 years prior, it is a possibility that the judge decided to avert those problems for the creditors. There also is no mention of the sale prices of De Lorean's 9th & 10th floor apartment at 834 Fifth Ave., NYC. But it too had some sort of artwork inside you can see here (http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/29/if-these-walls-could-talk-john-deloreans-roman-sculptures-for/). So I can potentially see where the judge may have been coming from. Most importantly though is that the idea you speak of would have required money. Something that given the state of the property you describe, was missing. Who knows how long it would have taken to secure investors, if at all.

I myself though don't necessarily look down upon what JZD did. He pretty much went from industrialist to economic survivalist for the most part.

[David T]

JZD and his lawyers certainly knew how to create shell companies. There was the American DMC, the UK DMC, the builder of the cars DMC, the holder of the cars in the US DMC and so on. Probably over a dozen if not more holding companies, domestic and foreign. Usually used to limit liability but also useful for taxation purposes. There were the corporate offices in NYC, the QAC's the plant, the equipment, Logan, and who knows what else. It was an empire. In the end he was just trying to hold together what he could. By then he lost DMC and all of it's assets, his wife, and he owed a massive amount to his lawyers (his largest creditor that he tried to wipe out with the bankruptcy). When he lost the estate he lost his single largest asset. Although the government didn't win in court they did succeed in taking everything away from him. Little wonder he never considered the car a big achievement. It wasn't till much later in life when he did and came to DCS in Ohio.
As for golf, yes it is in decline but in recent years it has had an upsurge due in part to personalities like Tiger Woods and more TV coverage. As I said, the Japanese LOVE it and come to the US from all over the world to play here. JZD was a popular local personality and was seen all over the area even after he lost the estate, he continued to live in the area. When I go to car shows people come up to me to tell me stories about how they took car of JZD's dogs, or did his dry cleaning, or worked on the estate, etc. For all of the things he went through he still remained hopeful and pleasant to everyone. Not everyone in his position would have been able to, falling from so high.

[DMCVegas]

Tiger Woods certainly did help give a boost to the game of golf overall, but it has subdivided itself now into two categories: Full sized courses, or driving ranges. The full sized courses are what is dying in the industry. The prices are way too high, and that's the stuffy culture that I speak of. The driving ranges on the other hand are really starting to flourish. In particular Top Golf. Much more fun and welcoming atmosphere for everyone involved. But i digress.

JZD himself, yes, is an amazing example of endurance and optimism. If he was angry and bitter at the world, he certainly didn't show it save for one particular instance from the post-arrest Playboy interview (http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/articles/playboy/playboy71x1.jpg). I have a copy of Sex, Lies, and Super Speedways, a partial audio book of Smokey Yunick's autobiography as narrated by John Z. De Lorean himself. Over the course of 6 CDs, JZD's voice noticeably changes. He starts out in his familiar well-spoken, slow to think before he speaks mannerism. But eventually that polished layer gives way to his natural speaking style. Aside from finally being relieved to hear JZD actually use profanity, the most shocking thing was to hear that Michigan accent when he pronounced his own name as: "D'lurean". Whether that was his "faith" that got him through, or that he was just the perpetual salesman that protected his brand until the end, who knows. I lean towards the latter, but he certainly was a helluva man to endure.

Getting back onto track, there is an AP story today about Bedminster, and how Trump loves using De Lorean's old mansion to welcome guests. Apparently he feels that it gives him some faux-European flair akin to 10 Downing Street.

I've no idea what JZD's opinion of Trump would be, although of course he would rather have retained ownership of Bedminster. But certainly it's current use I'm sure would have been an absolutely braggadocios pedigree to show off.