Holler's Time Machine accident

[Dangermouse]

At the risk of being accused to "pulling a Chris", I just saw on FB that Oliver Hollers car has been involved in an "incident". I am reporting it here in the hope that he might get better advice than "oh, he must have been doing 88mph"

I know many people on here have met them in their travels. Both of the Hollers are OK and posted all the pictures to their FB page https://www.facebook.com/ToTheFuture.org/



As you may know, he is traveling through Europe in the TM, as usual raising money for the MJFox Foundation.

It seems that while in Greece, his car suffered some sort of failure on a rear wheel. My first thought was TAB, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=47220&d=1478611613

It will be interesting to here the final cause.

Good luck

[Morpheus]

I'm glad they are both ok, that easily could have been much worse. Aside from the Left hub assembly and related components, the damage on the back end looks cosmetic for the most part.

[Bitsyncmaster]

It could have been the TAB and that caused the stress on the hub. Or just a flaw in the hub casting.

[David T]

It could have been the TAB and that caused the stress on the hub. Or just a flaw in the hub casting.

Hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like something came apart in the hub. Could have been from the added weight of all the BTTF stuff or a prior curb hit but that is more common on the right side. Looks like the nut just came off and the wheel walked off the spline.

[Timebender]

Amazing how quickly this ended up on Instagram with the meme of "life imitates art- hover mode on".

[Shuttleman]

Not the first incident like that. It looks like the hub nut got lose and came off. This nut is critical that's why it is supposed to be replaced everytime. At least mark with torque seal or point line and torque check once in a while.

[Jonathan]

Does this look like something got sheered off? Where the two red arrows are pointing. I'm trying to rotate this around in my mind and figure out which way all of that is facing. Those two spots look like part of the hub or trailing arm itself came right apart. Caused by the hub nut coming loose, or this is the cause in the first place and the nut wasn't the issue?

47229

[Shuttleman]

It is because the disk stay attached to the wheel sandwiched between the hub and wheel. When this assembly (wheel, disk and hub) gets loose because of the hub nut, it start to wooble. The only thing that retains it is the caliper holding the disk which breaks the caliper mounting tabs. It is not a Delorean specific type of failure.

[Josh]

This is what happened, I know because it happened to my car.

The wheel hub nut came off. This nut is a stover lock nut with no retaining mechanism like most vehicles (cotter pin or flat spot on threads). Stover lock nuts are not ideal as they only have 2 or 3 on/off cycles before they lose their hexagonal shape which locks them.
The second issue is the threads on the drivers side promote the nut loosening. You will not see a failure of this type on the passenger side as the threads promote the nut tightening as the car drives down the road.

So this nut will walk itself off and the hub will slide off taking everything with it. This includes the brake caliper.
The car will drop down to the suspension and drag on the lower control arm if the car is at stock height. If it is lowered it will drag on the frame and body tub, possibly the oil pan. Not to mention the suspension parts.

I have a strong belief that many deloreans on the road have this rear drivers side nut loose to some extent. It should be checked that it is torqued to 270 ft-lbs. Not just tightened with an impact. I would not re-use these nuts.
47230
47231

[81dmc]

Don't most cars have cotter pins or a type of lock washer to avoid accidents like this?

[Josh]

Don't most cars have cotter pins or a type of lock washer to avoid accidents like this?

Yes they do. If a cotter pin was included in the design this would not happen.

[81dmc]

Yes they do. If a cotter pin was included in the design this would not happen.

Why don't we fix that then?

Wouldn't it be feasible to use a castle nut and add a hole in the spindle to allow the use of a pin?

[Josh]

All the castle nuts I have found are too tall, the castleated portion hangs past the threads. Also to drill a hole in the threads would require disassembling the rear suspension.
An easier to install option was found by Josh at DPI, using a security nut. The nut has a sliding section in it that locks the threads. Hit the little tab with a punch and it locks. Add a spot of weld for extra insurance. I have attached an image:

47232

[Delorean Industries]

That's the ticket

[David T]

I doubt you would be able to drill the shaft. It is most likely hardened. Either double nuts if there is enough room or Lock-Tite. If the nut was never taken off you are probably OK. If it was ever disturbed it should be checked. Good idea to mark with paint so if it ever moves it is more noticeable. A dab of nail polish or marker is all it takes. There are also special lock washers that can be used.

[Drive Stainless]

This is what happened, I know because it happened to my car.

The wheel hub nut came off. This nut is a stover lock nut with no retaining mechanism like most vehicles (cotter pin or flat spot on threads). Stover lock nuts are not ideal as they only have 2 or 3 on/off cycles before they lose their hexagonal shape which locks them.
The second issue is the threads on the drivers side promote the nut loosening. You will not see a failure of this type on the passenger side as the threads promote the nut tightening as the car drives down the road.

So this nut will walk itself off and the hub will slide off taking everything with it. This includes the brake caliper.
The car will drop down to the suspension and drag on the lower control arm if the car is at stock height. If it is lowered it will drag on the frame and body tub, possibly the oil pan. Not to mention the suspension parts.

I have a strong belief that many deloreans on the road have this rear drivers side nut loose to some extent. It should be checked that it is torqued to 270 ft-lbs. Not just tightened with an impact. I would not re-use these nuts.
47230
47231

I retorqued both of my rear hub nuts with red Loctite after this happened to you!

[Delorean Industries]

I doubt you would be able to drill the shaft. It is most likely hardened. Either double nuts if there is enough room or Lock-Tite. If the nut was never taken off you are probably OK. If it was ever disturbed it should be checked. Good idea to mark with paint so if it ever moves it is more noticeable. A dab of nail polish or marker is all it takes. There are also special lock washers that can be used.

David, I can confirm the shaft is hard.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I retorqued both of my rear hub nuts with red Loctite after this happened to you!

What torque wrench do you have that goes to 270 ft/lb?

[David T]

What torque wrench do you have that goes to 270 ft/lb?

You can use a 3/4 drive torque wrench or an "extender" that would double your torques on a 1/2 drive one.

[Bitsyncmaster]

You can use a 3/4 drive torque wrench or an "extender" that would double your torques on a 1/2 drive one.

My half inch drive torque wrench is only calibrated to 150 ft/lb.

[BABIS]

maybe this "hub nut" matter deserves its own thread, along with the solutions..

[Gregadeth]

I have a strong belief that many deloreans on the road have this rear drivers side nut loose to some extent. It should be checked that it is torqued to 270 ft-lbs. Not just tightened with an impact. I would not re-use these nuts.When I loosened my hub nut to replace my angle drive, I re-tightened the hub nut not with a torque wrench, but with a regular socket wrench and a breaker bar, tightening it as much as I could with my strength. This should be sufficient, right?

[opethmike]

When I loosened my hub nut to replace my angle drive, I re-tightened the hub nut not with a torque wrench, but with a regular socket wrench and a breaker bar, tightening it as much as I could with my strength. This should be sufficient, right?

Not worth the risk. Get the appropriate torque wrench.

[mluder]

David, I can confirm the shaft is hard.

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Cheers
Steven

[Gregadeth]

47301

Looking over the instruction sheet that came with my angle drive kit and there's no torque spec listed. Just says to use a breaker bar and tighten as much as possible - which is what I did. My torque wrench doesn't go up to 270, and the ones I'm seeing online only seem to go up to 250. Where can I get a torque wrench with the appropriate spec?

[Shuttleman]

The reference is the car repair manual.47325

[Bitsyncmaster]

The reference is the car repair manual.47325

That is for the rear suspension. The angle drive nut may be the same but since you can't get a socket on it most just tighten as much as they can.

[Shuttleman]

No it is not the same. Come on, this is what's holding the wheels to the car.47327

[DMC5180]

47301

Looking over the instruction sheet that came with my angle drive kit and there's no torque spec listed. Just says to use a breaker bar and tighten as much as possible - which is what I did. My torque wrench doesn't go up to 270, and the ones I'm seeing online only seem to go up to 250. Where can I get a torque wrench with the appropriate spec?


Here's an affordable one. http://m.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-drive-click-type-torque-wrench-808.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com %2F

And a 3/4 to 1/2 drive adapter or buy the correct 3/4 drive socket for the axle nut.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EngineerGuY]

Looks like they car their car fixed and are back on the road!