Pinball machines

[Jonathan]

(A thread to chat about pinball machines. Any pins, not just the BTTF unit).

I know a bunch of you have some pinball machines at home. Another great hobby, like our cars, and one you can look at as an investment that you can enjoy along the way too.

I've never owned one before myself, but would like to in the near future. I've enjoyed playing them for as long as I can remember.

Back in the day, the local arcade/poolhall had a rotation of many of the Williams units (late 80s, early 90s). Funhouse, Diner, Party Zone and Highspeed 2 The Getaway to think of a few.

If I were to get one, and only one (for now!), I would love for it to be Highspeed 2 The Getaway by Williams. I see a couple for sale every so often, on eBay in the US and once in a while, somewhere in Canada too.

Anyone know what might be a reasonable price for one of these? Condition of course weighing in on the value, just like our cars. I'll leave shipping costs out of it for the time being assuming it is local enough to go pick up in person.

[Nicholas R]

(A thread to chat about pinball machines. Any pins, not just the BTTF unit).

I know a bunch of you have some pinball machines at home. Another great hobby, like our cars, and one you can look at as an investment that you can enjoy along the way too.

I've never owned one before myself, but would like to in the near future. I've enjoyed playing them for as long as I can remember.

Back in the day, the local arcade/poolhall had a rotation of many of the Williams units (late 80s, early 90s). Funhouse, Diner, Party Zone and Highspeed 2 The Getaway to think of a few.

If I were to get one, and only one (for now!), I would love for it to be Highspeed 2 The Getaway by Williams. I see a couple for sale every so often, on eBay in the US and once in a while, somewhere in Canada too.

Anyone know what might be a reasonable price for one of these? Condition of course weighing in on the value, just like our cars. I'll leave shipping costs out of it for the time being assuming it is local enough to go pick up in person.

The market is constantly changing for these (mostly going up) so it's difficult to say for sure. Still, a HSII in okay condition is usually around a $1,800-$2200 game (though people are constantly trying to get more). They can be more or less depending on condition but in a private sale, this is probably where you'll land.

I had a High Speed II from 2009-2015. Definitely one of my favorite games, especially because of the strong car theme. The idea of working your way through the game by increasing your RPMs enough to shift gears to eventually redline 5th gear is such a cool idea. Plus the supercharger on the playfield is a very cool feature. I picked the game up in 2009 for $900 from a private seller that was moving, didn't want the game, and couldn't keep it working right. The market was down at the time but even then that was a heck of a deal. I fixed all of the issues (bad diodes, a couple transistors, a few capacitors and bridge rectifiers), updated the ROMs, replaced all the rubber, added full superbright LEDs, cleaned it up and had it working great. The playfield was super clean on it which was the biggest draw. I even added a key switch to replace the start button. The only issue it had was that the red in the side art was faded. Otherwise it was a beauty. In 2015 I was looking for a change and negotiated a sale for $2,250 (he talked me down from $2500) to a guy that paid to ship it about 1,500 miles away. I still feel as though it was a fair price for how nice the machine was. Some day if I end up with more room and more cash, I may circle back and try to find another one of these.

Here's a video and album of my old machine from when I was selling it if you're curious what a $2250 machine (in 2015) looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9bOd_KV208
http://s565.photobucket.com/user/NicholasRoedl/library/Getaway%20Pinball%20Machine%20for%20sale

Hope this helps and best of luck finding your machine!

[David T]

There are pinball shows that you can go to where you can play all of the pins, and people buy and sell them and parts. The particular one isn't all that popular so depending on condition, can go for less than $1500 (in decent, working condition). Expect the case to be beat up and some parts on the playfield to be missing or broken. Look on line for where the shows are, you can often find one in most big cities at least once a year. If possible you want to pick it up yourself. Shipping is expensive and you really should inspect it yourself before you buy it. A lot of parts can still be bought for many of the games if necessary. Expect to replace all of the playfield rubber and a lot of bulbs but that is not expensive. There are forums for all of the games too so look them up.

[Jonathan]

Hope this helps and best of luck finding your machine!

Yes! Immensely helpful, thanks!

I knew you had mentioned before having a number of different pins over the years and I value your insight. Thanks for sharing.

Glad to be able to have your for sale comparison and put it up against others out there. 2015 vs present day, but still helpful.

There are two on eBay for about $3,800 and yet three others on an owners forum that are around $2,300. Makes me think there are more than a couple of comparisons to shopping for pinball machines as there are to old cars like DeLoreans. Namely that eBay is and can be inflated in starting price. And that when you get a description like yours had and from someone you know a little from forums, it goes a long way further than some random for sale ad on eBay.

Agreed on what David also mentioned about research, playing them, reading forums and finding out common issues. Just like buying one of our cars. And don't rush into it until you're ready. The patience thing. $2k is a lot different than $20k, but still the same philosophy.

Glad to have your photos to compare as well. Will continue learning and see what I find. Especially if there are comparable problems like a rotten frame on a D and what one of those deal breaker concerns might be on a pinball machine. Little issues or upgrades might be expected if they sat uncared for, but avoid the "barn find with the mouse piss all through it" sort of thing.

[Gfrank]

Sure Is amazing the amount of parts out there you can get. I gather one main thing to look at when buying is the condition of the play field.
I can't say I know to much about them how ever I am starting to learn, I've got a BTTF machine

[David T]

Sure Is amazing the amount of parts out there you can get. I gather one main thing to look at when buying is the condition of the play field.
I can't say I know to much about them how ever I am starting to learn, I've got a BTTF machine

When judging condition of a pin you look at the overall appearance, the condition of the outside of the case, missing, broken, non-original parts, and such. BUT you also examine the insides and if you see things all hacked up, wires cut, things changed or missing under the playfield or in the backbox, that can be more important than how the playfield looks. Other things to look for include if the "mechs" are still there, if all of the functions work, if the displays are all working, if any of the boards or plugs are burnt. Look at the hardware, are all the legs correct, are the bolts for the legs correct. If it is a "Re-Import" has the voltage and wiring been set up correctly or is it all hacked up? A large majority of old pins were exported overseas. When they come back they are called "Re-Imports" and they are generally in rough condition. Parts were unavailable so they got all hacked up to keep them going. The other problem is the plastic gets brittle with age so they are very prone to breakage as they get older. Some pins have known specific weaknesses like a plug that burns up or a power supply that melts or displays that age and fail. Best to learn all of this if you are interested in a specific pin. The good news is that there is a lot of commonality among pins of a specific manufacturer. The boards are interchangable. What makes them specific for a machine is the EPROMS, in the solid state machines. If you expect play the machine a lot try not to pick an electro-mechanical machine. With all of the relays and switches it is hard to keep them working. One bad connection and nothing works.

[driveintim]

I agree wit David T. I have been collecting pinball machines for years. A few things to add.
Price high or low is not always an indicator of condition, look the machine over hard, find out as much about the history as you can.
Also if you get interested in a specific game try and find one you can play for a while to see if you like the way it plays. Some games are tons of fun, some just look good and play horrible.

[acaciolo]

make sure you check out pinside. it is a great source of info and classifieds. I got almost all of my machines there.

tony c

[Jonathan]

Yea, take it for a test drive, right? Good call. Like start it up and see what happens when it sits there idling. Do the cooling fans come on, so to speak?

Years ago, there was a Toronto area auction place called Star Burst Amusements and it was an auction house for arcade games and pinball machines. I think the way they had it organized was that on the day of the auction, the place opened and you could play any game you were interested in. You brought your own extension cord and I think you had to deposit like $200 towards an auction purchase (just to keep the riff raff out). It isn't there anymore, but that'd be an ideal way to test out games.

Agreed on plays well versus looks good. I mentioned Highspeed 2 because it was one I played for hours as a teenager. I would likely keep my eyes open for ones I did play when younger, but I also have enjoyed machines I had never heard of nor played until recently.

More recently being the PlayStation game Pinball Arcade, which has recreated many of those machines with painstaking accuracy. I have played a few on the PS4 that I never played when younger and really enjoyed them. Ironically, the flipper physics for Highspeed 2 are not great and not as enjoyable as the real version, not by a long shot unfortunately. I would still for certain want to play a machine first I was considering, HS2 along with any others. Make sure it's fun to play if it's new to me, but also check the condition by playing it, like the test drive analogy.

I have found a couple places in the area that have pins, the movie theatres have one or two among their games in the lobby area and there is a bar downtown here in Guelph that has about 10 machines, all of varying vintage. I saw they had a Mortal Kombat stand-up cabinet the last time I was in there. I used to pull up a stool as a kid and play these machines with a can of pop beside me, now the machines have drinkholders for your beer attached to the sides of the cabinet. Giddyup! :)

[David T]

While you can play a pin as a simulation on a computer it is not even close to the experience of an actual machine. There are sites where you can learn the best strategies to earn points, how best to play, etc. Other sites can show you what breaks and how to fix them. Buying ones you played when you were young is not a very good idea, you will quickly tire of the game. Go for the more modern and popular ones, they will have the most appreciation value when you go to sell it or trade it in. Among the more popular are Monopoly, Playboy, Harley, and Adams Family. Of course they will cost more but they are worth more when you go to sell. Others like HS2 are not worth all that much because it is not as popular.

[DMCVegas]

Also if you get interested in a specific game try and find one you can play for a while to see if you like the way it plays. Some games are tons of fun, some just look good and play horrible.

That raises a question for me. Can the difficulty of a pinball machine be adjusted by the operator if they tamper with the leveling of the machine to alter the playing field's characteristics?

Arguably the most frustrating machine I've ever played was Jurassic Park. I've played 2 different machines, and each time it seemed like the "Raptor Pit" lane would just kick the ball perfectly into the drain where the flippers could not touch it. Just wondering if that was a design flaw with the table, or a shifty operator.

[Jonathan]

David T. --> Not trying to be an ass, but do you even read what people write before getting on your soap box to tell us all about what you already had in mind to say and just had to get it out regardless???

Sorry, that's more than a pinball exclusive comment and has bothered me for some time.

Anywho...

One of the reasons I was looking into getting a Highspeed 2 machine is because I enjoy playing it in real life. And the nostalgic aspect of enjoying those machines as a kid too. I understand there are newer machines with fancier playfields and whatnot, but that's not why I was interested in this particular one. And I'm surely not going to invest in a pinball machine, especially if I only get one to start, if it's one that other people think is great or a good investment, but I don't enjoy it. C'mon Dave, we're on a DeLorean forum. Do you think many of us give a sh!t what the masses do and don't just go ahead and do what we enjoy in spite of what's popular? Your line of thinking might make sense on the Toyota Corolla forum maybe...

Having brought up the video game simulation though, the one thing that is remarkable about the machines they've emulated is that they all come with elaborate "how to play" instructions that go over every last detail of the game and all modes and how to activate all those modes and earn the most points... and all of those instructions with the imagery of the pinball machine front and centre with arrows and graphics showing you where and how. That part is fantastic I might add.

The physics on the games are mostly good, but some tables have flaws and they are sometimes in this weak flipper end thing where they don't work the way they should. The tables even have some faults or glitches from real life recreated, which is neat but annoying.

The games are good, yes, but no substitute for the real machine. They're also a miniscule amount of the cost of the real machine taking up room in your house. Real DeLoreans aren't cheap either, but then you already know that. I mean, we could all just drive the DeLorean on the latest Gran Turismo game for PlayStation and skip all this real life nonsense though, right? That would be just silly, wouldn't it Dave? No sillier than thinking any of us consider an arcade pinball game the same as a real one though, right?

[David T]

David T. --> Not trying to be an ass, but do you even read what people write before getting on your soap box to tell us all about what you already had in mind to say and just had to get it out regardless???

Sorry, that's more than a pinball exclusive comment and has bothered me for some time.

Anywho...

One of the reasons I was looking into getting a Highspeed 2 machine is because I enjoy playing it in real life. And the nostalgic aspect of enjoying those machines as a kid too. I understand there are newer machines with fancier playfields and whatnot, but that's not why I was interested in this particular one. And I'm surely not going to invest in a pinball machine, especially if I only get one to start, if it's one that other people think is great or a good investment, but I don't enjoy it. C'mon Dave, we're on a DeLorean forum. Do you think many of us give a sh!t what the masses do and don't just go ahead and do what we enjoy in spite of what's popular? Your line of thinking might make sense on the Toyota Corolla forum maybe...

Having brought up the video game simulation though, the one thing that is remarkable about the machines they've emulated is that they all come with elaborate "how to play" instructions that go over every last detail of the game and all modes and how to activate all those modes and earn the most points... and all of those instructions with the imagery of the pinball machine front and centre with arrows and graphics showing you where and how. That part is fantastic I might add.

The physics on the games are mostly good, but some tables have flaws and they are sometimes in this weak flipper end thing where they don't work the way they should. The tables even have some faults or glitches from real life recreated, which is neat but annoying.

The games are good, yes, but no substitute for the real machine. They're also a miniscule amount of the cost of the real machine taking up room in your house. Real DeLoreans aren't cheap either, but then you already know that. I mean, we could all just drive the DeLorean on the latest Gran Turismo game for PlayStation and skip all this real life nonsense though, right? That would be just silly, wouldn't it Dave? No sillier than thinking any of us consider an arcade pinball game the same as a real one though, right?

Yes and no. Sometimes my posting of comments overlap and I wind up repeating what someone has already posted. Sometimes I do it to emphasis a point too. Yes, you can adjust a LOT of settings on the newer machines. On the old ones you can play with the level to make the game faster or slower.
You can set the # and amount of tilt. You can adjust the way the game adds points and awards bonus's. You can set bonus levels. The quality control on pins is not all that great, they are all hand built and low volume and each one is a little different. Then, over the years, parts get replaced and not always with the correct replacement parts. For instance one flipper can be a little faster or stronger than another. Or a button feels different from pin to pin. Yes, some games are set up so the ball will go SDTD (Straight Down The Drain) and you can't stop it with the flippers unless you slam the side of the machine. Each pin has it's own personality which you can learn only after a LOT of playing. I suggest you do not buy a pin just because you played that particular one for hours when you were young. Go to a pin show and play a bunch and find one you enjoy. You will be surprised how your taste has changed and that machine you loved isn't quite the way you remember it. BUT if you have a large budget and a lot of room go for it as long as it won't be the only one.

[driveintim]

That raises a question for me. Can the difficulty of a pinball machine be adjusted by the operator if they tamper with the leveling of the machine to alter the playing field's characteristics?

Arguably the most frustrating machine I've ever played was Jurassic Park. I've played 2 different machines, and each time it seemed like the "Raptor Pit" lane would just kick the ball perfectly into the drain where the flippers could not touch it. Just wondering if that was a design flaw with the table, or a shifty operator.

Most games can have the slope of the play field adjusted to make it faster or slower. Also software on new games have options to make it harder or easier to get extra ball or free game. Games can be out of level side to side making the ball roll more to one side or the other. My experience with operators they want you to keep spending money. Games that are rigged cause people to quit spending money on them. In most cases they want you to get hooked on a game and keep spending money on it.

[Nicholas R]

That raises a question for me. Can the difficulty of a pinball machine be adjusted by the operator if they tamper with the leveling of the machine to alter the playing field's characteristics?

Arguably the most frustrating machine I've ever played was Jurassic Park. I've played 2 different machines, and each time it seemed like the "Raptor Pit" lane would just kick the ball perfectly into the drain where the flippers could not touch it. Just wondering if that was a design flaw with the table, or a shifty operator.

Yes you can adjust nearly every setting. That's really interesting about JP. I've owned two Jurassic Park machines and on factory default settings, when the raptor pit is triggered, the ball saver is activated for something like 3-5 seconds to prevent this exact thing from happening. That way if you loose the ball because of the raptors it will give it right back. I suppose if it was on location somewhere, they may have turned the raptor ball save off to drain more balls (cheap trick). I always keep all of my machines on factory default settings as it is (for the most part) the standard within the pinball community, and the easiest way to compare scores against others. I could set my machines to give jackpots and extra balls like candy, but obviously it wouldn't make my high score at all comparable to anyone elses.


Among the more popular are Monopoly, Playboy, Harley, and Adams Family. Of course they will cost more but they are worth more when you go to sell. Others like HS2 are not worth all that much because it is not as popular.

What??? Based on what?? Nobody would argue the Addams Family, but Monopoly? Playboy? Harley Davidson? These may be your favorites, but they hardly represent the popularity of the market. High Speed II is easily a more popular machine than those three. I can think of about 50 machines more popular within the Pinball Market than any of those three. Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness, Twilight Zone, Star Trek TNG, Monster Bash, Funhouse, Cirqus Voltaire, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Indiana Jones, lord the list goes on...

Looking at the IPDB (pinball database) ranking of the top 300 machines, the most popular of those three is (the original 1978 version of) Playboy at #198, then Monopoly at #218 (keep in mind that High Speed 2 is ranked at #19). Neither version of Harley is even on the list, and having owned one (the newer chrome edition) I can say its for good reason. The theme may be appealing to Harley lovers but the gameplay is very shallow and gets boring very quickly; didn't last long in my collection. IPDB Top 300 list: http://www.ipdb.org/lists.cgi?anonymously=true&list=top300&submit=No+Thanks+-+Let+me+access+anonymously

Pinside on the other hand ranks Monopoly slightly higher at #172, the 1978 version of Playboy at #198, and the newer version of Harley at #290. This list ranks HSII a little lower at #45. Pinside Top list: https://pinside.com/pinball/top-100

[David T]

My information was a lot less formal than your rankings. I spoke at length with a company that re-imported pins and those games were very popular for them in terms of sales. I never said all of them were great but as a general rule, the more modern the game the more popular. I do agree the H/D game is not a very good one but it has a large collectible following because of the subject. Like the BTTF game. Another thing to consider is some areas of the country have differing tastes, in some areas some games are more popular than in others. Every game has at least one significant gimmick, the one in H/D is the vibration like a real motorcycle. Kind of lame IMHO. Another point, only in the newer electronic machines can you make a lot of adjustments, the older electro-mechanical relay type machines about all you can do is adjust the tilt and the level. The newest ones have a dot matrix display, the earlier machines (like BTTF) only have an alpha-numeric display. Another way to tell how popular a game is is by pricing. The most popular games tend to be the more expensive ones, the newer ones.

[FABombjoy]

That raises a question for me. Can the difficulty of a pinball machine be adjusted by the operator if they tamper with the leveling of the machine to alter the playing field's characteristics?
On many machines, especially near the outlanes, you can adjust the location of bumpers to increase of decrease the chances of a drain.

Leveling probably not as much. If the level is off the game either becomes unplayable or boring. That's one of my complaints about some pinball shows. People bring in a row of machines but don't level them accurately. You end up with games where the ball just sort of browses the playfield like a grocery shopper waiting for their deli number to be called.

[David T]

On many machines, especially near the outlanes, you can adjust the location of bumpers to increase of decrease the chances of a drain.

Leveling probably not as much. If the level is off the game either becomes unplayable or boring. That's one of my complaints about some pinball shows. People bring in a row of machines but don't level them accurately. You end up with games where the ball just sort of browses the playfield like a grocery shopper waiting for their deli number to be called.

The pin must be leveled in TWO planes, side-to-side, and front to back. If it is not level side to side it can be unplayable. The level front to back can change the speed at which the ball is played. While all pins have a recommended angle some operators make it more to speed up the game so it gets over quicker so theoretically more games can be played and it is harder to win any points or extra balls. You are right about shows, A lot of operators don't take the time or effort to make sure the game is properly set up so it can be played correctly. I have been to shows where you can't even plug some pins in because the cord is too short or there are not enough outlets. You have to bring your own extension cord and power strip! I guess you should bring your own wrenches and level! On most games you really can't adjust things on the playfield much except with the software. Maybe on some of the older pins.

[dustybarn]

Don't overlook old electromechanical machines. They can be a lot of fun to play, are usually pretty cheap, and aren't THAT hard to work on. There's no messing about with blown circuit boards and custom IC's.

[zimvsdib]

Just noticed this thread. :D
I currently have 4 machines in my office all pre DMD. One EM machine. The 80s era games are pretty easy to work on and can be just as good as new pins.
Fathom is a favorite of mine.
I've picked up a few machines for free or 100 bucks from craigslist, some were thrashed and need a lot of work but one just needed fuses. All works of art in my opinion. It's to bad the industry is on life support.

[David T]

Pinball Show Alert
2017 in Frisco Texas March 24-26

texaspinball.com

[Jonathan]

Don't overlook old electromechanical machines. They can be a lot of fun to play, are usually pretty cheap, and aren't THAT hard to work on. There's no messing about with blown circuit boards and custom IC's.

Coming back to this thread... I recently saw a local ad for an old-1975 EM machine for sale.

It is Williams Triple Strike and I think the seller lives about 5 minutes away from me. The price is reasonable, obviously very close by and it's already in Canada so no dickering around with exchange rates or customs charges at the border.

There is a bar downtown here that has a few machines and two of them are the old EM style. Gottlieb I think they are and I went and played them the other night and they are quite a bit of fun. Much more simple game play than the newer ones like Highspeed 2 or Addams Family or whatever, but that's ok. The cost of buying one of the old ones is a fraction of the newer ones and might be a good place to start in terms of trying out the hobby (as an owner) and fixing things or whatever.

This video wasn't on the guy's current ad, but I am fairly certain this is his machine (the actual one for sale):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAqJd9W5Hoc

[MOLI]

(A thread to chat about pinball machines. Any pins, not just the BTTF unit).

I know a bunch of you have some pinball machines at home. Another great hobby, like our cars, and one you can look at as an investment that you can enjoy along the way too.

I've never owned one before myself, but would like to in the near future. I've enjoyed playing them for as long as I can remember.

Back in the day, the local arcade/poolhall had a rotation of many of the Williams units (late 80s, early 90s). Funhouse, Diner, Party Zone and Highspeed 2 The Getaway to think of a few.

If I were to get one, and only one (for now!), I would love for it to be Highspeed 2 The Getaway by Williams. I see a couple for sale every so often, on eBay in the US and once in a while, somewhere in Canada too.

Anyone know what might be a reasonable price for one of these? Condition of course weighing in on the value, just like our cars. I'll leave shipping costs out of it for the time being assuming it is local enough to go pick up in person.

I too was in the same boat as you about a year ago. I was new to the pinball scene and had no knowledge of them as far as owning them. Like some people said, join the pinside forum, its a wealth of knowledge and you meet some people who can really give you some insight on. Go to the pinball conventions, again you get to meet a lot of vendors, distributors, and people who can answer a good amount of your questions. At the conventions, you can also find the pinball machine you want for the right pric. I go to the conventions every year and its cool seeing people wheel out their new pinball machines.

Newer pinball machines (GOT, Ghostbusters, Walking Dead, Etc.) from Stern Pinball your going to pay in average between 5-8k depending on the particular model of the machine. (Ex. Pro Model, Premium Model, Limited Edition Model).

Older machines are going to vary depending on the age, how well they have been maintained, availability and popularity of the game itself. Some average between 2-3k in good condition. 3-5k in excellent condition.

I'm from NJ and I found a local pinball company and I spent a good 2.5 hours there talking to the owner who was an overall nice guy and a videogame/pinball nut. I eventually found my first pinball machine on eBay, from a seller who was also in NJ and ended up buying it on the spot as the machine was in great condition, clean and the price was fairly negotiated.

[David T]

There used to be a pin show every year in York PA. I haven't been there for a while so I don't know if it still exists. There have been pin shows in NJ but they are few and far between. Most collectors will buy a pin, keep it and play it for a while, and trade it in. Most don't have unlimited space or budget for more than a couple of pins at a time. Buying a pin from a store can be a good thing, you would expect the pin to have been serviced and working. They can provide support and move the machine. You will pay more but it can be worth it if you can't take care of it yourself. Buying a pin without actually seeing it and playing it can be problematic. Especially if you are not familiar with that particular one. The best deals are usually when a homeowner is tired of a machine, hasn't played it for a long time and it doesn't work. if you an get it cheap enough (and can move it and fix it yourself) often it isn't expensive to get them going again. Even if you have to send a board out for repair, many places have either an exchange program or a fixed rate on them. If you can use a multi-meter and solder you can learn how to repair most of the common problems with boards. Buying a pin at a show assumes you can move it yourself BUT you do get to play a working pin (most of the time). Pinball machines are heavy so unless you have a specialized handtruck you need 2 people to move it safely. They can be taken apart to move but that takes a while and the parts are still heavy.

[MOLI]

There used to be a pin show every year in York PA. I haven't been there for a while so I don't know if it still exists. There have been pin shows in NJ but they are few and far between. Most collectors will buy a pin, keep it and play it for a while, and trade it in. Most don't have unlimited space or budget for more than a couple of pins at a time. Buying a pin from a store can be a good thing, you would expect the pin to have been serviced and working. They can provide support and move the machine. You will pay more but it can be worth it if you can't take care of it yourself. Buying a pin without actually seeing it and playing it can be problematic. Especially if you are not familiar with that particular one. The best deals are usually when a homeowner is tired of a machine, hasn't played it for a long time and it doesn't work. if you an get it cheap enough (and can move it and fix it yourself) often it isn't expensive to get them going again. Even if you have to send a board out for repair, many places have either an exchange program or a fixed rate on them. If you can use a multi-meter and solder you can learn how to repair most of the common problems with boards. Buying a pin at a show assumes you can move it yourself BUT you do get to play a working pin (most of the time). Pinball machines are heavy so unless you have a specialized handtruck you need 2 people to move it safely. They can be taken apart to move but that takes a while and the parts are still heavy.

David, where abouts in Northern NJ are you?

The pinfest show is located in Allentown, PA. I go to it every year.

[David T]

David, where abouts in Northern NJ are you?

The pinfest show is located in Allentown, PA. I go to it every year.

I am about as north as you can get and still be in NJ near the Tappan Zee Bridge. I have a BTTF pin and would be glad to show it to you. PM me and I will give you my e-mail address.

[Nicholas R]

Pinball machines are heavy so unless you have a specialized handtruck you need 2 people to move it safely. They can be taken apart to move but that takes a while and the parts are still heavy.

I move pinball machines all the time by myself with a standard appliance dolly. In my opinion the easiest way to move a machine by far is simply to first remove the pinballs and lay down the backbox (usually hinged), then ratchet strap it to the body of the machine. Then remove the rear legs of the machine (4 bolts) and set the rear down on the floor. Then tip the machine so that it is fully on end standing vertically, and take the front legs off (now on the top of the machine), 4 more bolts. Then use an appliance dolly (use a dolly with a strap) with the dolly against the what would normally be the underside of the cabinet, and roll it around. Then do the exact procedure in reverse to set it back up. Pinball machines are designed to be moved around, as well as stored this way. Its never a bad idea to have a friend to help, but all in all they're pretty easy to move.

[David T]

They are heavy and awkward and it doesn't take much to get away from you especially if you are not used to moving heavy things or you have to go up or down stairs. I have also done it alone but it isn't easy and if it falls you will damage it. Yes, you must remove the balls but some have "special" requirements to secure things on the playfield. You should secure the tilt and remove anything loose inside. If there is a manual it is worth reading it and following it's instructions. On one machine I couldn't get it out of the basement, up the stairs on a handtruck, the doorway was too narrow and you had to turn on a landing. I had to remove the backbox and the playfield and take it out in pieces. I recommend a helper because it just isn't worth hurting yourself or damaging the pin. I like to use some bubblewrap when I set the backbox down and I use a rachet strap to hold it to the case. I use a small step ladder to fit under the case to hold it off the floor and then remove the legs. Then I tip it onto it's back to stand it up and use an appliance dolly like you do. On the older pins the backbox doesn't always hinge easily, you must take things apart inside to get it off or hinge. Before moving a pin you should open it all up and inspect it for anything that is loose (or could become loose) so you don't cause any damage when you move it, especially if you are not familiar with it. You find all sorts of stuff inside, from tools to money to boards not fastened, extra balls rolling around, manuals, battery holders hanging loose, etc.

[Jonathan]

Thanks for the additional insight.

I think I may have missed the boat on the one that was for sale recently near me. The ad was taken down so I figure someone else finally bought it. I was going to ask the seller about help moving it, but that might not have been possible, so getting a few hints on how to move these things is important. Thanks.

I do remember seeing a photo or two of the bottom of the main cabinet on one of those older EM machines. Can't remember if it was the one I saw for sale or just a random one online. You could see all the wiring and relays and whatnot. Looked a little like parts of a certain old car I know. Also looked like a good spot you could open up on a "barn find" equivalent pinball machine and find a mouse nest or two.

[David T]

Thanks for the additional insight.

I think I may have missed the boat on the one that was for sale recently near me. The ad was taken down so I figure someone else finally bought it. I was going to ask the seller about help moving it, but that might not have been possible, so getting a few hints on how to move these things is important. Thanks.

I do remember seeing a photo or two of the bottom of the main cabinet on one of those older EM machines. Can't remember if it was the one I saw for sale or just a random one online. You could see all the wiring and relays and whatnot. Looked a little like parts of a certain old car I know. Also looked like a good spot you could open up on a "barn find" equivalent pinball machine and find a mouse nest or two.

It is unusual to find rodent damage but I guess if it is where you have a lot of mice it is possible but there really is no way for them to get inside unless the coin door is left open or a screen is missing or damaged. The big thing to look for is heat damage, burnt up connectors, hacked up wiring, wrong, broken, missing parts, especially on the playfield because many of the parts are very game specific and hard to get. Don't buy one just because it is nearby or cheap. Buy one you will enjoy playing. If it doesn't have a manual you can get one for just about every pin ever made. Don't worry about dirt, burnt out bulbs, or old rubber but it is important all of the functions work unless you feel you can fix it. Water damage can be expensive to fix. Another expensive fix is if a board has batteries and they leaked and damaged the board. The newer the pin the more fun to play, they have more functions, are more adjustable, and have more gimmicks but will be more expensive.

[Jonathan]

Been a while since I commented here in this thread... but... I've got a couple pins now! :)

I bought a Lethal Weapon 3 (Data East) in August. I had never played this game back in the day, but it was available locally, a good price and good condition and I wanted to get into the hobby. Not to mention Coronavirus stuff and being home all the time.

And just like old cars, you learn by doing and you learn out of necessity. I have really enjoyed working on that machine. I put a replacement DMD in as the one it came with had a few lines out. Done flipper rebuilds, leaf switch replacements for slingshots and drop targets, got the coin mechs all working, lots of bulb replacements in various spots and some plastics too. The game plays nice and fast and fun. DMDs and ramps a friend said is his two main requirements and I tend to agree with him.

Then, there months later, I find one of my nostalgic favorites for sale. And so a Party Zone is in my living room too. Super fun and great flow to that game. The theme is quirky and the call-outs are great. Another machine in good shape with a handful of things to sort out. Nothing too major, and just like cars, you use what you learned fixing something the last time to help you fix new issues. PZ came with a weak right flipper and I had it sorted out on the first evening. Even had a couple extra coil sleeves from parts orders on the LW3. Nice when you can use common parts on more than one machine.

And then, last night, I find my grail pin. Bought a Highspeed 2 the Getaway!! Will go pick it up one day this week. So super excited. Honestly, haven't been this excited since BEFORE getting the DeLorean in 2007. And I say before because it was crushing getting the DeLorean and realizing how poor of shape it was in. Not the case with this HS2. It is off the charts clean and pretty.

Colour DMD, upgraded speakers (Flipper Fidelity), plenty of playfield add-ons and mods (tasteful, like little decals here and there, a Lambo toy car off to the side, the Donut Heaven mod, etc.) Man it is nice. And again with the similarities with cars, where they say buy the one in the best condition you can find. I definitely got to do this with this machine.

Here's a few pics!

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[Jason]

This is my homemade pinball 'solution'.

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https://youtu.be/k4E7yV7_CAo

Not as good as a real machine, but I can fit a lot of games in a small space. The plunger works as on a real pinball machine, and if you bang or tilt the machine the ball moves as a real one would.

[Jonathan]

There are definitely some cool virtual solutions to not having the actual machine. Game play feel is different of course, but it is just amazing how accurate all the graphics are. I have Pinball Arcade for PS4 and it is great. The physics takes some getting used to and subtle differences between tables. Pretty much all those old Bally Williams machines from the early 90s are in there and those are my favourites. I saw a guy selling a nice little box he put together to use it with an iPad. Had side buttons soldered underneath to a tiny circuit board that then connected to the iPad. Perfect size to travel with.

[Jonathan]

Actually, thinking about video game pinball, there are a lot of different ones that came out over the years for various systems. I was always an original Nintendo guy (NES) and up until a couple years ago, hadn't realized they did a few pinball games for the system. Six different games in fact.

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[ritztoys]

I recently was given a 1972 Williams 'Travel Time' Pinball. It needed some help, after replacing some gamefield target switches and a few coils it now works perfectly!

When I heard the chimes and the score wheels working, my smile was from ear to ear. These machines are great to work on, so simple.

[Jonathan]

And then there were three...

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[David T]

Check out the forums on each machine. There is usually a way to reduce the voltage so the bulbs last longer, it is easier on the power supply. and you don't melt the plastic parts on the playfield. That way if you leave them on for extended periods everything lasts longer. There are also sites that have the game strategy all laid out so you can get the highest scores possible. Yes, they are pretty simple to work on but each game has it's uniqueness and quirks. Fun hobby.

[Jonathan]

Back in the day, the local arcade/poolhall had a rotation of many of the Williams units (late 80s, early 90s). Funhouse, Diner, Party Zone and Highspeed 2 The Getaway to think of a few.

If I were to get one, and only one (for now!), I would love for it to be Highspeed 2 The Getaway by Williams. I see a couple for sale every so often, on eBay in the US and once in a while, somewhere in Canada too.

Ask and ye shall receive.

Well, that and being bored and stuck at home for over a year thanks to covid cancelling pretty much everything fun in life...

The Getaway, Funhouse and Party Zone are all Diamond Plate playfields and are immaculate... just like my DeLorean :)

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I got Funhouse fairly recently and World Poker Tour got demoted to the dining room area... while my dining room table got demoted to being pushed up against the wall, lol.