DMCH new build discussion **Split from Ebay car vin thread***

[DMCMW Dave]

Of course. I didn't think that. Just wondering how it all worked, because it's not considered a restoration, is it?

Houston considers it a new build as it is mostly new/NOS. Legally it's the same car, although there isn't generally much of the original car left.

[Michael]

You have fallen victim of the media's hype. They take the phrase "New Build" and translate in their heads to "New Car", then it's a short trip for anyone who just skims headlines to take it as "they are building new Deloreans in Texas!"

Really you can call it what you want, in truth it's a frame off restoration. All Houston really needs is a clear title and set of vin plates...the rest(even an underbody or frame) they can provide if need be.

As of 2010(maybe late 2009?) the major difference between an older rebuild and a new rebuild is they now use a remanufactured stainless frame and control arms, rather than take an old frame, strip it and powdercoat it.

In the end, when you get the title with your "new" car, it will say 1981/2/3 Delorean, the mileage will be whatever was on the title at the transfer date(to Houston), even if it's a new engine/transmission, etc.

[David T]

Everyone is playing with semantics here. There is nothing "new" about the car. It will have it's original or a donor vin and an original build date back in the '80's. There will be new and N.O.S. parts on it (and a lot of old parts) but no one can call it a NEW car. Some would call it a frame-off resto, others might call it a rebuilt car, DMCH calls it a "new build". It will be bought and sold as a used car as you can NEVER be an original owner on that vin if it was ever registered. Here is the crux of the question, at what point does replacing parts qualify as a "new" car? A tune-up, a rebuild, a "new build"? I submit EVERY part must be new (or NOS (New Old Stock))and the Title must never have been registered (really there is not a Title but a Certificate of Manufacture on a new car) for someone to use the claim NEW. Since none of these words are clearly defined people are at liberty to use them as they wish for advertising purposes. When you go to Title the car in your name you will see that legally you are buying a USED car. And by the way, what is the mileage on that "new build"?
David Teitelbaum

[Dracula]

I never liked their misleading practice of calling the car a "new build" and I get tired of being asked if my car is one of the new ones built in Texas or a "real" DeLorean... Seriously, Houston, did you have to be so intentionally deceptive about the refurbished cars you sell? I've also got to remove that infernal Stage II build-date tag from the engine bay. If I have it open at a show, I'll always get someone who says, "Look, there's one of those 'new' DeLoreans."

[DMCH James]

Everyone is playing with semantics here. There is nothing "new" about the car. It will have it's original or a donor vin and an original build date back in the '80's. There will be new and N.O.S. parts on it (and a lot of old parts)

Out of the approximately 2800 parts used that make a up a DeLorean, it's about 25-40 "donor" parts, the rest of which are either NOS, OEM or reproduction parts. Hardly "a lot of old parts".

James

[stevedmc]

Out of the approximately 2800 parts used that make a up a DeLorean, it's about 25-40 "donor" parts, the rest of which are either NOS, OEM or reproduction parts. Hardly "a lot of old parts".

James

YEAH, How many new binnacles are used?

[DMCH James]

How many new binnacles are used?

Just the ones we're keeping from you.

James

[tjd]

Still 80% of your parts are 30 year "old" NOS parts or reproduction, it is built on a 30 year old underbody. 30 year old used car. Previous owners. Varying mileage. Built by your techs instead of a factory trained workforce. How do you sleep at night advertising it as "new"?

If you only knew the headache your misleading advertising causes me as a DeLorean owner (DeLorean owners = your biggest customers) when people go on about the "new" cars being built in Houston, next to BTTF your misleading description of your restorations is the most annoying thing I have to hear about at car shows and gas stations. I'll take the cocaine jokes anyday then here something about BTTF or your "new" builds.

[dmc6960]

This is hardly a subject I tend to comment on, but think of it like this folks...

DMC calls their completely rebuilt cars, "New Builds". From a certain context, its fairly accurate. In other contexts, not really.

DMC's "new build" cars generate a HUGE amount of press and media hype, thus raising the general knowledge of the car and DMC's existence.

Now that a LOT more people know that they can get "new" DeLoreans, even the thought of an "old" DeLorean is much more appealing now, figuring that any DeLorean can be serviced by this "DMC" company!

Now there are a lot more owners out there actively driving their cars and needing service and parts, thus raising income for DMC thus allowing a continuous influx of newly remanufactured parts to replaced the exhausted old new stock of them.

Think about that next time you have to explain to someone for 15 seconds that a "new" build is really and old car rebuilt with nearly all new/new old stock parts.

[DMCH James]

Tim,

You were all nice to me at Woodward 10 days ago, it's only here and on FB that you turn into someone different. Why is that? Not enough people there to make it worth making a scene like here and on FB?

I'll put one of these cars up against any "used" DeLorean that you can find. We take a bare chassis - galvanized and powdercoated original or SS at the customer's request - and assemble the car from that point forward with the parts combination as I described above. 1-2% of the parts used came from the donor - which allows the cars to be titled as 1981-1983 cars - which are rebuilt or refurbished. The balance of the parts have never been on a car before.

We've just shipped off the underbody molds to Louisiana to have the first new underbody in nearly 30 years manufactured out of modern materials. Somehow, I don't even think that will make you happy. We're scheduled to have the first one here at the Open House in October, along with some other surprise new parts.

Factory trained workforce? The guys here putting the cars together have more experience with these cars than any of the good people in Dunmurry did. We also have the experience of working with the car for nearly 30 years and knowing the faults and weaknesses that the the original DMC never had the time to learn about, much less fix.

Calling the cars restored or refurbished actually does the finished product a disservice. Those terms are thrown about by so many people to refer to so describe so many different things - I'd wager that no DeLorean has been "restored" or "refurbished" to include the outright replacement of approximately 98% of it's part content. Probably only a miniscule number of restorations in the world can say that. I can't control what the media reports, or what people interpret from that. Anyone who calls asking about these cars gets told this exact same thing I've just written here.

Finally, if this truly causes you a headache, I'd wager that you're in the minority - most people are glad to hear something other than cocaine jokes and BTTF references.

James

[Masaes727]

:hippo: :smackbum:



Tim,

You were all nice to me at Woodward 10 days ago, it's only here and on FB that you turn into someone different. Why is that? Not enough people there to make it worth making a scene like here and on FB?

I'll put one of these cars up against any "used" DeLorean that you can find. We take a bare chassis - galvanized and powdercoated original or SS at the customer's request - and assemble the car from that point forward with the parts combination as I described above. 1-2% of the parts used came from the donor - which allows the cars to be titled as 1981-1983 cars - which are rebuilt or refurbished. The balance of the parts have never been on a car before.

We've just shipped off the underbody molds to Louisiana to have the first new underbody in nearly 30 years manufactured out of modern materials. Somehow, I don't even think that will make you happy. We're scheduled to have the first one here at the Open House in October, along with some other surprise new parts.

Factory trained workforce? The guys here putting the cars together have more experience with these cars than any of the good people in Dunmurry did. We also have the experience of working with the car for nearly 30 years and knowing the faults and weaknesses that the the original DMC never had the time to learn about, much less fix.

Calling the cars restored or refurbished actually does the finished product a disservice. Those terms are thrown about by so many people to refer to so describe so many different things - I'd wager that no DeLorean has been "restored" or "refurbished" to include the outright replacement of approximately 98% of it's part content. Probably only a miniscule number of restorations in the world can say that. I can't control what the media reports, or what people interpret from that. Anyone who calls asking about these cars gets told this exact same thing I've just written here.

Finally, if this truly causes you a headache, I'd wager that you're in the minority - most people are glad to hear something other than cocaine jokes and BTTF references.

James

[stevedmc]

YEAH, all jokesq aside, if I had the money I'd either buy a DMCH rebuild or let Josh at DPI perform his magic. My concern with the Houston car is using 30 year old NOS parts instead of improved rebuilt parts.

For example. The rubber diaphragm in my brake booster started leaking. I had two options for replacing the 30 year old booster. I could either replace it with a 30 year old NOS part with a 30 year old diaphragm or get a rebuilt brake booster with a new rubber diaphragm installed. Can anyone guess which option I chose?

My concern with buying a DMCH rebuild would be whether or not they would be using 30 year old parts such as brake boosters, ac compressors, and even engines. Josh at DPI removed the heads from a 30 year old NOS crate engine and it was pretty nasty inside. It ended up having to be rebuilt. It is stuff like this that scares me.


Btw, I hope James realizes I'm just messing with him about binnacles. Sorry if I'm getting on your nerves but remember, I'm the man without a brain.

[tjd]

It's wasn't worth getting into an arguement with you James, and since you were right up in my car when I needed to get into it I was courteous with you, and I don't know you so I don't dislike you and since I was trying to enjoy myself thank you very much, I would assume that you were too and I extended to you something called common courtesy. I also expect that there like here and on facebook you will stop responding when we get into things I would find interesting, like if I ask for a specific list of what parts are reused. Since it's such a small percentage I figure this wouldn't be too difficult to answer.

I'd also like to know what happens to the grooved and gas flapped hoods that are removed from donors that do not end up back on the finished "new" build, I know of atleast two "new" builds that are built on an 81 donor car that are missing these (valuable) parts. I have also never seen a "new" build built on an 81 Donor that didn't have a flat hood.

LOL James as a DeLorean purist I've seen several original DeLoreans that I'd put up against one of your vin-incorrect "new" builds anyday of the week.

No James a newly produced underbody will not improve my opinion of your "new" builds (cough restorations). Only when you guys start caring about the cars history and do proper vin correct restorations will my opinion improve, and it would improve dramatically. What you are doing now is robbing the cars of their individual history as in many cases they hardly ressemble the cars that left Dunmurry by the time they exit your facility as one of your "new" build cars. They remind me of that Johnny Cash song One Piece At A Time, but in the DeLoreans case it wold be an 81, 82, 83... and it didn't cost Johnny a dime, but your "new" build is setting some unsuspecting sole back atleast 57 grand. It's sad really.

According to Michael they are using OEM tail light boards instead of Grady's improved part. These have been known to be faulty thus unsafe since atleast the mid 80's. So they do not mind cutting corners to save a dime, even if it jeopardises the safety and lives of their "new" build customer.

[Dracula]

I'd put my restored car up against ANY of your refurbished cars any day of the week. Sure, it has one of your Stage II engines, but it has a lot of enhancements beside that and countless little features that speak volumes of the production history of DeLoreans as well as telling an interesting story of restoration and personal taste.

[dvonk]

We've just shipped off the underbody molds to Louisiana to have the first new underbody in nearly 30 years manufactured out of modern materials.

this is awesome! :headbang:

[tjd]

Right off hand I've seen 10 or more original DeLoreans some survivor many of them updated and atleast one beautifully done correct restoration that I'd put up against any of your company's "new" builds any day of the week James, and this is just out of a relatively small pool of cars I've personally seen in the past two or three years since I got back in the hobby.

and yes before you bring it up I have seen one of your companys "new" builds in person that had less then 1,000 miles on it since completion, and sadly I was not impressed. The vin inaccuracies, the poor quality reproduction seat covers (they don't look OEM, I don't know what I'm going to do when and if I need to replace my originals) the recovered binacle, the grain on the Stainless, and the biggest offense is the overall fit and finish, the car has an early oversized underbody so the car has subpar panel alignment. Not what I'd expect when paying 57K+ for a DeLorean.

[thirdmanj]

It's wasn't worth getting into an arguement with you James, and since you were right up in my car when I needed to get into it I was courteous with you, and I don't know you so I don't dislike you and since I was trying to enjoy myself thank you very much, I would assume that you were too and I extended to you something called common courtesy. I also expect that there like here and on facebook you will stop responding when we get into things I would find interesting, like if I ask for a specific list of what parts are reused. Since it's such a small percentage I figure this wouldn't be too difficult to answer.

I'd also like to know what happens to the grooved and gas flapped hoods that are removed from donors that do not end up back on the finished "new" build, I know of atleast two "new" builds that are built on an 81 donor car that are missing these (valuable) parts. I have also never seen a "new" build built on an 81 Donor that didn't have a flat hood.

LOL James as a DeLorean purist I've seen several original DeLoreans that I'd put up against one of your vin-incorrect "new" builds anyday of the week.

No James a newly produced underbody will not improve my opinion of your "new" builds (cough restorations). Only when you guys start caring about the cars history and do proper vin correct restorations will my opinion improve, and it would improve dramatically. What you are doing now is robbing the cars of their individual history as in many cases they hardly ressemble the cars that left Dunmurry by the time they exit your facility as one of your "new" build cars. They remind me of that Johnny Cash song One Piece At A Time, but in the DeLoreans case it wold be an 81, 82, 83... and it didn't cost Johnny a dime, but your "new" build is setting some unsuspecting sole back atleast 57 grand. It's sad really.

According to Michael they are using OEM tail light boards instead of Grady's improved part. These have been known to be faulty thus unsafe since atleast the mid 80's. So they do not mind cutting corners to save a dime, even if it jeopardises the safety and lives of their "new" build customer.

OK, I'm kinda new to this "owners club" of sorts. But I've been a Delorean enthusiast since as long as I can remember caring about cars, and (with nods to Steven at DMCH) a proud owner since 2007. My question to you buddy is: WHERE's THE FUCKING RESPECT? What other car/ car company in American automotive history can tell the remarkable story of DMC? Thanks to the efforts of TRUE enthusiasts this car, this beautiful piece of art and history has been made available to generations of people just like me, too young to remember the scandal and failure. But simply loved the car for what she was (and still is). DMCH has done, and is still doing what no other company has ever done. Not only making available the "leftovers" of DMCL to us owners, but using 30 years of experience to hone, correct, and make new again in the spirit of preserving a precious piece of history. Can you even comprehend how difficult it would be to maintain our cars if it wasn't for an outfit like DMCH? How expensive the parts would be? Or what would happen when they ran out? They're improving parts we have, making new ones better. The Bricklin can't say that, the Nash can't say that. Hell most American cars past the age of 50 can't say that. We're fortunate enough to have a professional outfit like DMCH backing us up. To be able to say that our car company died, and came back to life better than anyone ever imagined is a rare right and point of pride in its self!

Now lets get on the other side of it. That $57,000 price tag, thats comparable to how much it cost in the 80s to get one, that would have had QA issues, virtually no support, and built by people that had far less experience in assembling Deloreans than "those techs" in Houston. If I could order a hand made car (Delorean or not), built specifically for me, knowing that it had the benefit of hundreds of years combined knowledge to do it, for 60k, I'd leap on it! I'd I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who wouldn't. I count myself lucky that my unique, classic, sexy, head turing car has the history that she does, and with the efforts of TRUE motivated people is continuing to make more.

Think about it.

[stevedmc]

But simply loved the car for what she was (and still is). DMCH has done, and is still doing what no other company has ever done.

What might that be? PJ Grady has been in the Delorean business far longer than DMCH, has more experience, and sells many IMPROVED products that you can't get from DMCH. Hervey has been selling parts for about 10 years now and he has hundreds of NEW products available for purchase. Henninger sells all sorts of new stuff too. Oh and support is available all over the internet in places like this.

Don't get me wrong, I do buy stuff from DMCH but I do it indirectly by making my purchases from DMCMW. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see too many postings from DMCH on this forum offering free advice.

Dave over at DMCMW is on here almost everyday giving away free advise and because of that and fast shipping I chose to give him as much business as I can, as long as it isn't something like a 30 year old brake booster than has never been rebuilt.

Edit: I forgot to mention Josh at DPI. He seems to do great work too. I haven't done business with him but he has a good reputation and seems to be in love with these cars. Deloreans seem to be more of a religion than a business to him. Thats the kind of guy you want rebuilding your car from the frame up.

[AdmiralSenn]

What thirdmanj said.

Maybe the cars do have issues, maybe they are cutting corners. But they're putting out a ton of effort over there to keep these shiny little cars alive.

I am by no means a DMCH apologist, being perfectly happy to source what I feel is the best part from the best supplier no matter who that is, but they do us a great service and their profits help them keep that service going.

I don't think James or anyone (okay, maybe Ed B) deserves this kind of backlash.

[tjd]

Me have some respect? Please, did you not read James 1st paragraph when he was addressing me? I criticize his companies use of the term "new" build and he like a child lashes into a personal attack because I showed him and his fiance respect and common courtesy by not confronting him personally about his companies business practices at a multi DeLorean Club event that my club was hosting that he was a guest at.

Now respect Stephen Wynne because he bought the parts inventory from Kapac? Just because you may not know your DeLorean history doesn't mean that I don't. While I do believe that we are in better shape with the parts in the hands or Mr Wynne then where it could have ended up (cough Ed Bernstein), I wouldn't go as far as saying that we might not have been better off if it went to another party that was interested at the time. But that is neither here nor there as that is not how it played out. While DMCH has had it's successes it has also had it's problems. "Improved" parts that are inferior to OEM (Ball Joints, Angle Drives). I also do not like their reproduction seat covers at all, the quality or type of leather skins is not consistent with OEM, their biggest offense in this customers eyes is their use of the term "new" build in describing their remanufactured or restored cars.

The bragging about all this combined experiance the techs at houston have, yes experiance repairing cars. Car repair and car manufacture from the ground up which they are claiming are two different things. I will not get into it but you do not have to dig to deep into this forum to read about quality problems a couple owners have had with relatively recent "new" build cars, one new owner picked up a bargain from someone that "had one that never ran right" as a "new" build out of Houston. The new owner fixed it tightening something down under the valve cover. The other needed an engine overhaul at DPI 24-36 months after the "new" build was purchased.

In closing here is some DMCL vs DMCH history for yah, and this in my eyes put's it into perspective. In the time it took DeLorean to break ground and build his plant in Dunmurry, and all 9,000 or so of our Stainless Steel cars where put into production and built, and DMCL ultimately ending in bankruptcy, the same time that it took for all that to happen has since passed since James Espey first announced new repro Binacles would be produced by DMCH and we still don't have them as of this posting. So lets talk about respect and where it is deserved as far as our cars history is concerned. My hat goes off to those workers thirty years ago in Dunmurry, that made all of this happen in the first place. IMO DMCH still has a long way to go when it comes to quality, customer service, and achievment when you compare them to the people that made this dream happen in the first place.

[Dracula]

I'd like a public answer to this question from someone who knows:

Was the name "New Build" chosen to deliberately gain attention by making people think that "New" DeLoreans were being created or did they just run with the often-printed misunderstandings and leave the name unchanged to ride the wave of publicity that resulted?

I've had so many people ask about their "new" cars and have a few articles around someplace that family members have sent me that say that they're BUILDING cars in Houston. That is simply untrue, but I'm not blaming Houston for what the paper prints. I know reporters often misinterpret things and twist them, but why hasn't Houston come out with any story that says "There will be NO MORE DeLoreans manufactured; EVER!" Certainly with all the hype that their "new build" cars generated, this would see quite a bit of media interest and officially set the record straight; I, however, remain doubtful that it would be able to clear up the misunderstanding that they have deliberately played up to their advantage.

[tjd]

What might that be? PJ Grady has been in the Delorean business far longer than DMCH, has more experience, and sells many IMPROVED products that you can't get from DMCH. Hervey has been selling parts for about 10 years now and he has hundreds of NEW products available for purchase. Henninger sells all sorts of new stuff too. Oh and support is available all over the internet in places like this.

Don't get me wrong, I do buy stuff from DMCH but I do it indirectly by making my purchases from DMCMW. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see too many postings from DMCH on this forum offering free advice.

Dave over at DMCMW is on here almost everyday giving away free advise and because of that and fast shipping I chose to give him as much business as I can, as long as it isn't something like a 30 year old brake booster than has never been rebuilt.

Edit: I forgot to mention Josh at DPI. He seems to do great work too. I haven't done business with him but he has a good reputation and seems to be in love with these cars. Deloreans seem to be more of a religion than a business to him. Thats the kind of guy you want rebuilding your car from the frame up.


Well said Steve, 90% of the time that I make a purchase from DeLorean Motor Company (houston) it is indirectly through DMC Midwest. I do this due to Dave and Julee Swingle's dedication to the marquee, and their outstanding customer service that they regularly provide myself and countless other owners either on the phone or on the internet either here or on that other board. I have also always been treated by them with respect.

I've said this countless times, Stephen Wynne should be thankfull that he has people like Dave and Julee representing his brand.

I've also had possitive experiances with Rob Grady, Lawrence Lormand, and John Hervey all of which in my eyes have contributed more as far as I am concerned to our marquee as far as improved or no longer available parts goes then DMCH. I've also had possitive conversations with Josh Bengston at DPI and look forward to visiting his shop.

I only wish that DMC Midwest did not have their hands tied into only installing DMCH parts when they work on my car, I would like to reward them with my customer loyalty and use them exclusively to work on my car, but I also want the best for it and NOS or DMCH's improved parts are not always better for my car then what "the competition" has to offer, and apparently that is against DMCH policy.

[David T]

All of this comes down to playing with the meaning of words. Some words have implied meaning such as "new". Using that word in the context of a used car is misleading. Most advertising has gotten away from using the word "used". A BIG example is "Certified Pre-Owned" or CPO. DMCH is doing what they can to differentiate their cars from the general "used" population of cars because they feel it is not the "average" used car. Legally it is a used car. Practically, it is as close to new as possible. Obviously the market will ultimately determine it's status. As for the general population of Delorean owners, this can only be seen as a good thing because it forces DMCH to have a running, continuous supply of ALL of the parts of a Delorean. It also develops a lot of interest and publicity and a whole new class of owners who wouldn't buy a "used" car. BTW James, what would you call a "brand new" Cadillac if the dealer told you it had only 80 used parts in it and a Title that said you were the 4th owner and the car has 40K miles on it? Let me answer that for you,

"New Build"

Well, it is newly built. He just cannot say "Brand New". Maybe made from many "Brand New" parts! This is why when you buy something, anything, you must look beyond the advertising hype and understand EXACTLY what you are buying. If this gives you a headache take an aspirin. Welcome to the REAL world where you cannot believe everything you hear and only 1/2 of what you see!
David Teitelbaum

[stevedmc]

What sucks about DMCH, and believe me, I do appreciate the part they have played in the Delorean community, is they have a huge inventory of 30 year old parts they need to sell.

Look what happened with windshields. It wasn't until after they sold all of their 30 year old windshields, which were starting to seperate, that they found someone to start producing new windshields. Honestly, if I was in their situation I would probably do the same thing. They have a warehouse of old parts they paid for and need to get rid of.

Like someone else said, at least DMCH hasn't turned into Delorean One. I have never called DMCH directly to order a part as I prefer DMCMW but I have a feeling they wouldn't hang up on me if I called them wanting to spend some money.

Another thing that disturbs me about DMCH is they act like they, and their franchises, are the one and only source for Delorean parts and service. I have talked to many prospective owners and owners who got this impression after dealing with Houston.

Sean sucks because he split another thread.

[Dracula]

Anyone else find it ironic that DMCH is having a Concourse competition at their Open House in October? They're worse than I am in relation to build accuracy, yet they're having an event that focuses on build accuracy.

Now, granted, I dislike Concourse on a level that parallels BTTF-replicas, but I don't see this event lasting. How many people actually participate in it anymore? It seems that in recent years, there's no longer a premium paid for those cars and, in some cases, they go for less. There are always going to be those who enjoy having a car sitting on unsafe tires and original oil filters, but the numbers are sharply diminished and dwindling fast.

I know that they are a business, but I think that they've been treading on a few toes in a very limited market. You can never please everyone; my cars exemplify this, and there will always be issues, but in an area where the biggest complaint about the cars is public interaction and misunderstanding, wouldn't you think that they'd want to reduce this as much as possible?


Sean sucks because he split another thread.

Actually, that was my idea. I PM'ed him about it because I thought that our tangent into the "new" cars of DMCH was cluttering a thread that had nothing to do with it in the first place.

[sean]

Anyone else find it ironic that DMCH is having a Concourse competition at their Open House in October?

Actually, I think its more like Millennium Concours (http://www.millenniumconcours.com/) is having a competition and DMCH is gracious enough to host it at their event, win win.

[Dracula]

Actually, I think its more like Millennium Concours (http://www.millenniumconcours.com/) is having a competition and DMCH is gracious enough to host it at their event, win win.

Ah. My mistake here. Though, I still think that their days are numbered. However, I plan to enter in 2012.

Remember to vote:

"DRACULA in 2012"

[sean]

Ah. My mistake here. Though, I still think that their days are numbered. However, I plan to enter in 2012.

Remember to vote:

"DRACULA in 2012"

I look forward to judging it in Orlando!

[Dracula]

I look forward to judging it in Orlando!

My sympathies to you. Keep a red pen handy.

I would like to attend the Open House at Houston, as well, but I can't what with going back to school.

[Dangermouse]

How does DMCH avoid having a “odometer discrepancy” report appear on the “new builds’ carfax report? If you have a 70000 mile donor car, and put “un-used 0-mile parts” on it, I would presume you want the odometer to read 0, to fall in with the “new” part. When it is titled, does it not get flagged as a discrepancy?

[Dracula]

How does DMCH avoid having a “odometer discrepancy” report appear on the “new builds’ carfax report? If you have a 70000 mile donor car, and put “un-used 0-mile parts” on it, I would presume you want the odometer to read 0, to fall in with the “new” part. When it is titled, does it not get flagged as a discrepancy?

Here, when a car is over 10 years old, it becomes exempt from odometer recordings. I'd imagine that they either title the cars as exempt due to age or set the speedometer to read whatever the one in the donor car said.

[Farrar]

We've just shipped off the underbody molds to Louisiana to have the first new underbody in nearly 30 years manufactured out of modern materials.

Excellent news!

One of the things I have noticed looking up parts on Houston's website over the years: a lot of parts are going from "New Old Stock" to "DMC Improved Part" without a lot of fanfare. Despite the economic downturn, Houston has continued to push ahead with its effort to improve DeLorean reliability and keep as many of our cars alive as possible.

Semantic antics aside, I agree that it is better to correct someone who thinks you're driving a 2011 DeLorean than it is to correct someone who thinks that John DeLorean was the biggest cocaine dealer of all time.

Farrar

[Dracula]

Semantic antics aside, I agree that it is better to correct someone who thinks you're driving a 2011 DeLorean than it is to correct someone who thinks that John DeLorean was the biggest cocaine dealer of all time.

Farrar

That's comparing apples to tambourines. the 2011 DeLorean comments can be traced directly to Houston and their intentionally-misleading name. The cocaine comments are due to the fact that his arrest and the hotel tape made worldwide news and front pages, whereas his acquittal was buried several pages in as a minor note. Houston HAD to know what they were doing going into it and have some discussion to that extent. They created that rumor to better serve their interests at the expense of all of us who own a DeLorean.

[tjd]

Excellent news!

One of the things I have noticed looking up parts on Houston's website over the years: a lot of parts are going from "New Old Stock" to "DMC Improved Part" without a lot of fanfare. Despite the economic downturn, Houston has continued to push ahead with its effort to improve DeLorean reliability and keep as many of our cars alive as possible.

Semantic antics aside, I agree that it is better to correct someone who thinks you're driving a 2011 DeLorean than it is to correct someone who thinks that John DeLorean was the biggest cocaine dealer of all time.

Farrar

LOL I correct them both. I generaly accept the cocaine scandal and BTTF as part of the history of the car (old history) though annoying. The "new" build thing is fresh and is really unnecesary, it wouldn't exist if DMCH's descriptions didn't create confusion with the media and general public (unnecesary = more annoying).

[Farrar]

I guess none of you have ever played a game of "Telephone."

:shrug:

Farrar

[tjd]

Houston HAD to know what they were doing going into it and have some discussion to that extent. They created that rumor to better serve their interests at the expense of all of us who own a DeLorean.

Kinda like they created the Solstice rumor too huh?

I just have a fundamental problem with dishonesty and that's where Houston sticks in my side. If they accurately described their product without smoke and mirrors and games with misconceptions that work in their favor that's continually thrown in my face by the misinformed I wouldn't have anything to say about it.

[thirdmanj]

Me have some respect? Please, did you not read James 1st paragraph when he was addressing me? I criticize his companies use of the term "new" build and he like a child lashes into a personal attack because I showed him and his fiance respect and common courtesy by not confronting him personally about his companies business practices at a multi DeLorean Club event that my club was hosting that he was a guest at.

Now respect Stephen Wynne because he bought the parts inventory from Kapac? Just because you may not know your DeLorean history doesn't mean that I don't. While I do believe that we are in better shape with the parts in the hands or Mr Wynne then where it could have ended up (cough Ed Bernstein), I wouldn't go as far as saying that we might not have been better off if it went to another party that was interested at the time. But that is neither here nor there as that is not how it played out. While DMCH has had it's successes it has also had it's problems. "Improved" parts that are inferior to OEM (Ball Joints, Angle Drives). I also do not like their reproduction seat covers at all, the quality or type of leather skins is not consistent with OEM, their biggest offense in this customers eyes is their use of the term "new" build in describing their remanufactured or restored cars.

The bragging about all this combined experiance the techs at houston have, yes experiance repairing cars. Car repair and car manufacture from the ground up which they are claiming are two different things. I will not get into it but you do not have to dig to deep into this forum to read about quality problems a couple owners have had with relatively recent "new" build cars, one new owner picked up a bargain from someone that "had one that never ran right" as a "new" build out of Houston. The new owner fixed it tightening something down under the valve cover. The other needed an engine overhaul at DPI 24-36 months after the "new" build was purchased.

In closing here is some DMCL vs DMCH history for yah, and this in my eyes put's it into perspective. In the time it took DeLorean to break ground and build his plant in Dunmurry, and all 9,000 or so of our Stainless Steel cars where put into production and built, and DMCL ultimately ending in bankruptcy, the same time that it took for all that to happen has since passed since James Espey first announced new repro Binacles would be produced by DMCH and we still don't have them as of this posting. So lets talk about respect and where it is deserved as far as our cars history is concerned. My hat goes off to those workers thirty years ago in Dunmurry, that made all of this happen in the first place. IMO DMCH still has a long way to go when it comes to quality, customer service, and achievment when you compare them to the people that made this dream happen in the first place.

Thank you Tim, Steve-

For pointing out my shameless omissions. I also wish to clarify that I, unlike some people my age, have a deep rooted respect for history, and in the case of DMC, I'm well versed. I believe all Delorean owners need to be, so as to adequately combat the a average dopes one runs into at gas stations, car shows etc. who insist on giving us owners history lessons about our own cars. But that aside, Tim and Steve have made excellent points regarding the shortcomings of DMCH. I can only point out that unlike DMCL they are working against 30 year old negative opinions and perception, and less hype that there was back in the 80s (that had been building since the mid 70s). Steven and James are not John Z. They can't tell his story, and do not have the reputation or accolades he could boast in his time. Lets face it, the man was a celebrity, that man was the company. The father of the muscle car was building his own line, I wasn't around as you know, but I can only imagine the excitement of the time.

Furthermore, I believe due credit needs to be given to Steven and James for doing what no one else did. Unifying all the small independent (and while I've never worked with them directly there reputation proceeds them) companies under one banner the new DMC. This in its self, while mostly symbolic from what I can tell, boosted DMCs image in the publics eye and made DMC a whole car company once again.

I've not had experience with all of the "improved" parts ( I have heard negatives about the dashboards though) but the ones that I have, have held up very nicely. I have upgraded to the new tail-light circuit boards from PJ Grady and they are fantastic quality, far superior to the OEM.

They may have a ways to come, but since 2003, when I first heard about it as a HS kid I've only seen forward motion and noticeable betterments. Confidence is a powerful and tough product to sell, especially when its already been destroyed. But as a perspective owner in 2007, and not in the community, from the outside looking in seeing one united company under the DMC banner gave me tremendous confidence and made it OK to go out and buy a car, knowing that I had a professional united company across the country to back me up.

[tjd]

Thank you Tim, Steve-

For pointing out my shameless omissions. I also wish to clarify that I, unlike some people my age, have a deep rooted respect for history, and in the case of DMC, I'm well versed. I believe all Delorean owners need to be, so as to adequately combat the a average dopes one runs into at gas stations, car shows etc. who insist on giving us owners history lessons about our own cars. But that aside, Tim and Steve have made excellent points regarding the shortcomings of DMCH. I can only point out that unlike DMCL they are working against 30 year old negative opinions and perception, and less hype that there was back in the 80s (that had been building since the mid 70s). Steven and James are not John Z. They can't tell his story, and do not have the reputation or accolades he could boast in his time. Lets face it, the man was a celebrity, that man was the company. The father of the muscle car was building his own line, I wasn't around as you know, but I can only imagine the excitement of the time.

Furthermore, I believe due credit needs to be given to Steven and James for doing what no one else did. Unifying all the small independent (and while I've never worked with them directly there reputation proceeds them) companies under one banner the new DMC. This in its self, while mostly symbolic from what I can tell, boosted DMCs image in the publics eye and made DMC a whole car company once again.

I've not had experience with all of the "improved" parts ( I have heard negatives about the dashboards though) but the ones that I have, have held up very nicely. I have upgraded to the new tail-light circuit boards from PJ Grady and they are fantastic quality, far superior to the OEM.

They may have a ways to come, but since 2003, when I first heard about it as a HS kid I've only seen forward motion and noticeable betterments. Confidence is a powerful and tough product to sell, especially when its already been destroyed. But as a perspective owner in 2007, and not in the community, from the outside looking in seeing one united company under the DMC banner gave me tremendous confidence and made it OK to go out and buy a car, knowing that I had a professional united company across the country to back me up.

While it is great they are setting up a dealer network under their banner, I think it is important that the independents like DPI, Grady, Hervey, Baurle and anyone else I'm forgetting stay that way. In many ways their innovations with improved parts excede in ways and compliment in others the work that is being done by the DMC branches. I hope we continue to have choices, choices are good.

I'd like to see more cooperation and flexibillity when it comes to the relationships of the independant vendors and DMCH and the branches as far as service and parts. Give the owners choices, I don't know of any independent that wont install DMCH parts. But on the flipside of the coin, well it's the flipside.

[thirdmanj]

:thumbup:
:cheers:



While it is great they are setting up a dealer network under their banner, I think it is important that the independents like DPI, Grady, Hervey, Baurle and anyone else I'm forgetting stay that way. In many ways their innovations with improved parts excede in ways and compliment in others the work that is being done by the DMC branches. I hope we continue to have choices, choices are good.

I'd like to see more cooperation and flexibillity when it comes to the relationships of the independant vendors and DMCH and the branches as far as service and parts. Give the owners choices, I don't know of any independent that wont install DMCH parts. But on the flipside of the coin, well it's the flipside.

[Canon20DFan]

Which 25-40 parts would be the reused ones?


Out of the approximately 2800 parts used that make a up a DeLorean, it's about 25-40 "donor" parts, the rest of which are either NOS, OEM or reproduction parts. Hardly "a lot of old parts".

James

[stevedmc]

Out of the approximately 2800 parts used that make a up a DeLorean, it's about 25-40 "donor" parts, the rest of which are either NOS, OEM or reproduction parts. Hardly "a lot of old parts".

YEAH, last time I checked a NOS part meant it was around 30 years old. Depending on how many NOS parts are used, it certainly could be "a lot of old parts".

[Dracula]

Kinda like they created the Solstice rumor too huh?

I just have a fundamental problem with dishonesty and that's where Houston sticks in my side. If they accurately described their product without smoke and mirrors and games with misconceptions that work in their favor that's continually thrown in my face by the misinformed I wouldn't have anything to say about it.

I'm glad to see that someone else shares in my opinion. It's not what they're doing that annoys me; quite the opposite. It's the fact that they had to plan to create that rumor by marketing the car as "new and improved" like it were an entirely different car with a DeLorean body.

Have they done some great things, of course. Nobody here is stating that Houston hasn't played a key role in keeping these cars alive, but we're instead attacking the marketing system that they chose to promote their product and the notable, intentional frustration it causes us: their customer base. If we don't complain and review businesses, they become monopolies. That's why we NEED the small places like DPI, whom I'm glad to be giving business to for this very reason. We need someone to show that Houston is NOT God and so that alternatives are developed. Like the new dashes. I have one, but I am displeased with the quality and will be shopping for an alternative whenever possible.

[David T]

In New Jersey the mileage must be correct on the odometer and the Title at the time of sale. If the odometer is ever changed (the mileage is not right either because of defect or replacement) a sticker is supposed to be placed on the driver's door pillar indicating when and what the change was. When the seller signs the Title he is swearing to the mileage at the time of sale. So, even if the odometer is dialed to zero the Title will record the previous mileage and a sticker is supposed to tell you what it was before it was turned back. You cannot eliminate the accumulated mileage. As a practical matter, with the amount of work DMCH does, the mileage doesn't really matter anymore and for all purposes other than legal it is a zero mileage car when done. In most automotive circles what DMCH is doing is more often called a "Ground up, frame off, restoration" using many new and NOS parts.
David Teitelbaum

[Michael]

The mileage is set to whatever is shown on the title at the time of transfer to Houston. If a new speedo is used, it is set to that mileage. As far as I know, there are no "0" mile refurbs...er excuse me, new builds sold with a 0 mile odometer setting. I think mine had 28k on it at the time it was rebuilt, so it was sold with that mileage, even though it had the 140mph speedo.

[stevedmc]

Like the new dashes. I have one, but I am displeased with the quality and will be shopping for an alternative whenever possible.

YEAH, my dash broke the day I installed it. One of the speaker studs broke when I was tightening my driver side speaker. I tried fixing the stud with JB Weld but the fix didn't hold.

The dash may be of poor quality but its still cheaper than having the old dash recovered. It also looks a whole lot better than the cracked dash I replaced. Hopefully the binnacles won't be as sucky.


On another note, for some reason I used to be scared to say anything about Houston for fear of getting blacklisted. I have a feeling there are many other people on the forums with the same fears.

Like I said before, they do have some good products. But they are not the GOD of Delorean parts and service.

[painterdave72]

The only things i didnt like about the dash was the color match to a nos glove box lid is completely different even though it was supposed to be color matched to one....and the fact that u can see some of the studs on top.. other than that it is not too bad..

[SamHill]

The only things i didnt like about the dash was the color match to a nos glove box lid is completely different even though it was supposed to be color matched to one....and the fact that u can see some of the studs on top.. other than that it is not too bad..

I'll have you know that I am a coward and I don't intend on taking a stand one way or the other!

Aside from that, I don't see how color matching to a NOS lid would be exact anyway, as all our lids are (now) slightly different shades from each other after 30 years of varying heat/humidity/bad music.

[Ryan King]

Still 80% of your parts are 30 year "old" NOS parts or reproduction, it is built on a 30 year old underbody. 30 year old used car. Previous owners. Varying mileage. Built by your techs instead of a factory trained workforce. How do you sleep at night advertising it as "new"?

4762

First off...Tim, I do think you are out of line. You are approaching your points in a very aggressive manner. If I were James, I would be pretty offended by your lack of respect. Maybe you don't mean to sound so cross, as I have never met you in person, but through here, you sound completely rude and disrespectful...

I actually never knew how Houston classified "New Build Cars" and I am glad James addressed this in the thread. I too am curious to know which parts are re-used when building a New car. If you could James, if you are still monitoring this thread, give us some more insight.

And in my experience with the dashboards...I too had some snapped studs off. I was very disappointed with the product. I did call Danny Botkin afterwards since I bought mine through him. He said that he had never had an issue with them and said I could pay him to make it look right. I somewhat argued with him on the phone about the poor quality and how I shouldn't have to pay. He held his ground. I passed on the offer.

And in response to the new fabricated underbodies...
4763

[Chris 16409]

On the topic of the "new build" cars being VIN specific:

In my opinion, the kind of people who are buying rebuilt cars from Houston don't care about their cars being vin specific. If they did, they would rather buy a project car and restore it themselves. The rebuilt cars are for people who want a no hastle ownership experience. They probably don't want to work on them, and aren't worried about all of the minutiae DeLorean nerds care about. This doesn't necessarily pertain to people who buy a second hand "new build" car (does that even make sense LOL). Most of us would never buy a "new build" because we want to personalize our cars, and hold them to some higher standard. Other people who casually like DeLoreans and have 60 grand to blow, don't care that the hood is missing lines, or that there is no ripple in the center console vinyl. They don't know and probably don't care to know about this minutiae. They probably just want to enjoy driving the car on the weekends and show it off to their friends. And their friends won't tell them that the car doesn't have the correct door pull straps. We have to stop thinking everybody in the community cares about all these tiny details. Besides, nobody is forcing anyone to buy a "new build" car. In fact, Houston isn't even really advertising these cars to us in my opinion. Houston wants all those people who hear the media talking about "new" DeLoreans being built, to call them up and place an order for one.

The whole VIN accurate thing is kind silly in my opinion, and it is an artificial construct created and maintained by owners. I think James talked about how when parts bins were filled with new stock, all of the old and sometimes slightly different parts were covered up. The new supply would be used and eventually some of the old parts would be put on the cars. That right there proves there is no VIN formula. It was all based on the probability/chance that a car would get a certain part. It only appears that it was predetermined because of the trends and that certain blocks VINs group together. The more time we spend arguing about all of this nonsense means the less time we have to drive and enjoy our cars. Can you really say that some guy who buys a "new build" car with a flat hood is really going to enjoy his car less? Besides, Houston would much rather sell (at a premium I might add) that lined hood to us VIN crazed fanatics.

[dmcjohn]

I actually never knew how Houston classified "New Build Cars" and I am glad James addressed this in the thread. I too am curious to know which parts are re-used when building a New car. If you could James, if you are still monitoring this thread, give us some more insight.

The confusion continues - you refer to building a new car above, which is simply not happening. They are restoring old cars.

That said, that's great that DMCH are trying to create a new fiberglass body and I look forward to the results - especially if they come out stronger, stiffer and lighter due to the use of modern composites.

If they are successful in making new fiberglass bodies, and include them along with new stainless steel frames in their "new build or whatever you want to call them" cars, along with all new stainless from their NOS warehouse, and a new 2011/2012 VIN plate, then I will concede that they are building new cars - as these will be cars which did not exist 30 years ago, and no 30 year old car had to be sacraficed to donate parts to the new one.

John

[tjd]

4762

First off...Tim, I do think you are out of line. You are approaching your points in a very aggressive manner. If I were James, I would be pretty offended by your lack of respect. Maybe you don't mean to sound so cross, as I have never met you in person, but through here, you sound completely rude and disrespectful...


LOL

I do not sugar coat things, that I am guilty of. Brutal honesty. I think a little more honesty would go a long way with the people at DMCH as far as their marketing goes with their restorations. Otherwise we wouldn't all be having this conversation. As far as personal disrespect, I've shown none to James. The same can not be said of James who launched into a personal attack on me in post #10 of this thread for voicing my opinion of his companies marketing strategies and decisions that bother more then just a few of us, and out of those only the ones that are not afraid of the possibility of DMCH backlash we'll post about it openly here. Privately that is another story, I have been active with four clubs and I have only heard from one owner who favors DMCH's use of the term "new" build and the misconceptions it generates to the media and public. It's not like I'm polling or anything but that is just my take from the people I've talked to if and when the subject comes up.

DMCH needs to be made aware of our discontent with their marketing and if my bluntness along with others finally gets the message to them and they then stop and consider the impact of their marketing decisions on their biggest customers, maybe just maybe they'll reconsider. In the collector car world and car restoration business what they call "new" builds everyone else calls frame off ground up restorations. These terms do no create confussion with the media and general public in the way that DMCH does with their "new build" term which anywhere else in the car industry is only associated with actual NEW cars.

[dn010]

I think DMCH is great, and every other vendor out there for that matter - we all need them to continue driving and enjoying my vehicle. I've gotten thousands of dollars worth of parts from DMCH and SpecialT, and hundreds of dollars with other vendors. There is nothing bad I can say about any of them.

My CONCERN is this: DMCH is selling their new build cars for what, 50K? What is happening to the value of my D? Whose going to want to buy my used, old D - how much am I going to get should I have to ever sell it? The value certainly isn't go up on my old D, I won't have a new fiberglass underbody, stage # engine, etc - but the new builds will go for much more, even though I put thousands of dollars into my car to make it as new as I could.

This is my CONCERN, I'm not saying ANYTHING bad about DMCH or their "New Build" vehicle, nor am I saying I am for or against their "new build" vehicles.

[Marty]

A lot of marketing is semantics. Words can easily be twisted and every single company in the world is guilty of it to some degree. I think it's fair to say the DMCH cars are new build if they're using all NOS parts. The parts are old where time is concerned, but not in use. If new is defined as never having been used before, they ARE technically new. If you bought a 2010 model car this September, which sat on the dealer lot for a year, would you consider that to be a new car, despite the fact that it's a year old? What would you consider as "New"? I suppose a more accurate term might be ground up restoration, but if it's all NOS parts, I'd say the use of the word "new" is fair.

[tjd]

I would never consider a car built up using 80% 30 year old NOS parts and some used and repro, that has varying mileage and had previous owners "new", ever!

That 1 year old build on the car lot you describe is built up 100% with newly built parts, by a factory trained workforce (not built by service techs at the dealership) and would have a 2011 title, no parts swapped with 2012 or 13 model year cars, no previous owners, it's not a comparison.

[SoCalDMC12]

My CONCERN is this: DMCH is selling their new build cars for what, 50K? What is happening to the value of my D? Whose going to want to buy my used, old D - how much am I going to get should I have to ever sell it? The value certainly isn't go up on my old D, I won't have a new fiberglass underbody, stage # engine, etc - but the new builds will go for much more, even though I put thousands of dollars into my car to make it as new as I could.

I disagree. I think there will always be a market for the "non-new build" cars because of their originality... they are still (for the most part) sporting the same parts that were bolted together at the factory in Ireland ~30 years ago. This is why I like the term "New Build"– it makes a clear and easily understood delineation between the originals and the ones being put together in Houston.

I prefer the originals (because of the historic value), but would be happy to own a New Build because of the stainless frame.

[stevedmc]

I couldn't resist making this post:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2238-Interesting-day-with-Steven-at-DMCH&p=30844&viewfull=1#post30844

[Dracula]

I couldn't resist making this post:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2238-Interesting-day-with-Steven-at-DMCH&p=30844&viewfull=1#post30844

Yet I've never seen them address this publicly; amongst several other things...

[David T]

You can call the thing anything you want. When the buyer looks at the odometer the mileage will not be near zero and the Title will say a 1981-2 Delorean. Legally it is a used car, pure and simple with some amount of new and used parts. You can even call it "Certified Pre-Owned" if you think that is more accurate. Call it anything but what it really is is a "Used Car" (legally). Advertising is not held to the same standard as most things. It is generally up to the buyer to know what he is buying. Many will not care about the distinction and after paying all that money will agree that it is as close to "new" as legally possible without "revinning" and retitling the car. For practical purposes that is true.
David Teitelbaum

[tjd]

You can call the thing anything you want. When the buyer looks at the odometer the mileage will not be near zero and the Title will say a 1981-2 Delorean. Legally it is a used car, pure and simple with some amount of new and used parts. You can even call it "Certified Pre-Owned" if you think that is more accurate. Call it anything but what it really is is a "Used Car" (legally). Advertising is not held to the same standard as most things. It is generally up to the buyer to know what he is buying. Many will not care about the distinction and after paying all that money will agree that it is as close to "new" as legally possible without "revinning" and retitling the car. For practical purposes that is true.
David Teitelbaum

I don't know of any other entity in the "used car" business other then DMCH that use misleading terms to confuse the public into believing their 30 year old "used cars" are really "new" cars.

But almost everything about their identity they have created for themselves as part of Steven Wynne's attempt to reinvent himself after his DeLorean One days is meant to confuse and mislead the general public. It may not be illegal for say but I would call it immoral and unethical.

I would rather see DMCH take pride in their products and services and stop trying to pimp the car for publicity for themselves and stop making efforts to confuse the public into thinking their restorations are "new" cars.

What do you think the % of the people that they reach through their media misrepresentations are converted to DeLorean owners versus people that watch or read the piece out of curiosity? Is the end result (DMCH writing new phony chapters to a cars history for their own benefit) the small % that gets into DeLoreans because of DMCH's media outreach (which I imagine is very small) worth screwing up the general publics or worse auto historians view of our cars true history?

DMCH take some pride (or a reality pill) when it comes to your restorations. They are cut & dry frame off restorations with a performance upgrade, nothing special when compared to other frame off classic car restorations (come on most of the time your restorations are incorrect). Stop trying to muddy our cars history for your own corporate self benefit!

[Dracula]

I don't know of any other entity in the "used car" business other then DMCH that use misleading terms to confuse the public into believing their 30 year old "used cars" are really "new" cars.

But almost everything about their identity they have created for themselves as part of Steven Wynne's attempt to reinvent himself after his DeLorean One days is meant to confuse and mislead the general public. It may not be illegal for say but I would call it immoral and unethical.

I would rather see DMCH take pride in their products and services and stop trying to pimp the car for publicity for themselves and stop making efforts to confuse the public into thinking their restorations are "new" cars.

What do you think the % of the people that they reach through their media misrepresentations are converted to DeLorean owners versus people that watch or read the piece out of curiosity? Is the end result (DMCH writing new phony chapters to a cars history for their own benefit) the small % that gets into DeLoreans because of DMCH's media outreach (which I imagine is very small) worth screwing up the general publics or worse auto historians view of our cars true history?

DMCH take some pride (or a reality pill) when it comes to your restorations. They are cut & dry frame off restorations with a performance upgrade, nothing special when compared to other frame off classic car restorations (come on most of the time your restorations are incorrect). Stop trying to muddy our cars history for your own corporate self benefit!

Very well-said and the bit on the restoration quality that they put forth is the reason that I'd put my restored car against one of theirs any day, any time, in any category and feel confident in my chances for victory.

[Canon20DFan]

I must ask...are you in NY with the OWS protests right now? I have rarely seen such a skewed view of business...as if DMC is a charity and as if they should answer to YOU for their business decisions.

I object to people who have never owned a business, never been sued as a business owner, never had to meet payroll and take no risks in a business other than showing up for work, then being critical of a business (a.k.a., the US Congress). As Andy Rooney said one evening "Before you criticize a business, start one yourself and put YOUR name on the building" (loosely quoted).

Stephen W. "reinventing" himself was to confuse and mislead the public? He's been immoral and unethical to buy millions of $ of limited-use inventory, run a business, extend the life of the brand and provide jobs?

Without the stockpile of DMC parts we have in one place, they would've been sold at auction, piecemeal, and would be scattered and rusting someplace. We'd have a Kaiser/DeSoto/MG brand on our hands, not a chain of dealerships with parts and service.

Profitability - corporate self-interest as you put it - is what pays the investors back, pays the employees, keeps the enterprise going. Do YOU have the millions of dollars required to purchase even a portion of the inventory available for our cars? Do you show up for YOUR job and tell your boss not to bother to pay you? Anyone can criticize a Michaelangelo sculpture, few can make one. Please reply with your business summary and net worth, I'm curious.

There are other Delorean service centers - DPI in Ohio for one - that also do what they do for corporate self-interest (i.e., making a living). I, for one, am glad they're there making a good living because that means I have a place to take my car for work.

So if I owned DMC or DPI and you called me immoral and unethical, I'd be hopping mad.


I don't know of any other entity in the "used car" business other then DMCH that use misleading terms to confuse the public into believing their 30 year old "used cars" are really "new" cars.

But almost everything about their identity they have created for themselves as part of Steven Wynne's attempt to reinvent himself after his DeLorean One days is meant to confuse and mislead the general public. It may not be illegal for say but I would call it immoral and unethical.

I would rather see DMCH take pride in their products and services and stop trying to pimp the car for publicity for themselves and stop making efforts to confuse the public into thinking their restorations are "new" cars.

What do you think the % of the people that they reach through their media misrepresentations are converted to DeLorean owners versus people that watch or read the piece out of curiosity? Is the end result (DMCH writing new phony chapters to a cars history for their own benefit) the small % that gets into DeLoreans because of DMCH's media outreach (which I imagine is very small) worth screwing up the general publics or worse auto historians view of our cars true history?

DMCH take some pride (or a reality pill) when it comes to your restorations. They are cut & dry frame off restorations with a performance upgrade, nothing special when compared to other frame off classic car restorations (come on most of the time your restorations are incorrect). Stop trying to muddy our cars history for your own corporate self benefit!

[David T]

Once you enter the realm of the "Used Car" business anything goes. One of the reasons the government has to regulate it to the extent it does. If you have taken notice, just about every dealer selling used cars has now changed it to "CPO" (Certified Pre-Owned). Yes, "I can CERTIFY that this car WAS Pre-OWNED!" They do not want the customer to even hear the WORD *used* in relation the the car they are trying to sell! DMCH is doing what all of the other car dealers all over the country are doing. You may not like his choice of words and that is your choice. Watch the movie Used Cars. Done by the same people (Gale and Zemakis) that did BTTF I, II, and III. A profitable and healthy DMCH can only be a good thing for ALL Delorean owners, including the New Build owners!
David Teitelbaum

[Dracula]

...Watch the movie Used Cars...

That's sound advice no matter what the context is. I loved that film and my go-to used car dealer and I often quote lines of it back and forth.

[stevedmc]

Stephen W. "reinventing" himself was to confuse and mislead the public? He's been immoral and unethical to buy millions of $ of limited-use inventory, run a business, extend the life of the brand and provide jobs?

I'm glad to see DMCH's investment in the future of Deloreans. What I don't like is how they mislead the public into thinking they are Delorean Motor Company. Yes, DMCH does have a lot of fancy parts from the original inventory that you can't get anywhere else. But there are a lot of other vendors out there with better service and better new products.

I have every right to my opinion because MY CAR is free advertising for Steve Wynn's company. When someone sees my car it sparks interest in the car and they go to the internet to see what they can find out. Guess who's website comes up first when someone types "Delorean" on a Google search. It ain't DPI, PJ Grady, Hervey, or even DMCTalk. I found no vendor on the first page of google other than you know who. Shoot, Fox News was even on the first page.




There are other Delorean service centers - DPI in Ohio for one - that also do what they do for corporate self-interest (i.e., making a living). I, for one, am glad they're there making a good living because that means I have a place to take my car for work.

So if I owned DMC or DPI and you called me immoral and unethical, I'd be hopping mad.

DPI isn't pretending to be Delorean Motor Company. For what it's worth, Josh sells rebuilt and restored cars. I've never heard him claim to sell a new Delorean.

[Michael]

I'm glad to see DMCH's investment in the future of Deloreans. What I don't like is how they mislead the public into thinking they are Delorean Motor Company.

When DMC's assets were sold to Mr. Wynn, he also aquired the DMC name and rights...so the truth is they are Delorean Motor Company.

[Dracula]

When DMC's assets were sold to Mr. Wynn, he also aquired the DMC name and rights...so the truth is they are Delorean Motor Company.

That's not true. He didn't buy the rights to the name; the rights expired when DMC went out of business and they began operating, unchallenged under their established monicker. It'd be no different than me opening my own airline and calling it "Braniff International Airways" and re-using their logos, seeing as they folded in 1982, because I bought a surplus of their flight attendant uniforms. Would it be the same company? No. Would it be any different from DMCH? No. Consolidated International bought up the surplus of DeLorean parts, but the company's trademarks and registration hadn't yet expired at the time. The name "DeLorean Motor Company" wasn't an asset that was purchased from KPAC, nor does DMCH have any more right to it than I do. They may OPERATE as the DeLorean Motor Company, but there's not the original and it's nothing more than re-using a name to ride off of the coat-tails of an established business.

[tjd]

I must ask...are you in NY with the OWS protests right now? I have rarely seen such a skewed view of business...as if DMC is a charity and as if they should answer to YOU for their business decisions.

I object to people who have never owned a business, never been sued as a business owner, never had to meet payroll and take no risks in a business other than showing up for work, then being critical of a business (a.k.a., the US Congress). As Andy Rooney said one evening "Before you criticize a business, start one yourself and put YOUR name on the building" (loosely quoted).

Stephen W. "reinventing" himself was to confuse and mislead the public? He's been immoral and unethical to buy millions of $ of limited-use inventory, run a business, extend the life of the brand and provide jobs?

Without the stockpile of DMC parts we have in one place, they would've been sold at auction, piecemeal, and would be scattered and rusting someplace. We'd have a Kaiser/DeSoto/MG brand on our hands, not a chain of dealerships with parts and service.

Profitability - corporate self-interest as you put it - is what pays the investors back, pays the employees, keeps the enterprise going. Do YOU have the millions of dollars required to purchase even a portion of the inventory available for our cars? Do you show up for YOUR job and tell your boss not to bother to pay you? Anyone can criticize a Michaelangelo sculpture, few can make one. Please reply with your business summary and net worth, I'm curious.

There are other Delorean service centers - DPI in Ohio for one - that also do what they do for corporate self-interest (i.e., making a living). I, for one, am glad they're there making a good living because that means I have a place to take my car for work.

So if I owned DMC or DPI and you called me immoral and unethical, I'd be hopping mad.

Just an FYI (in answer to your tirade) Stephen Wynne acquired the parts inventory from Kapac for less then 1 Million.

No other vendor (with the exception of my Satellite DMC_ _ friends) are using the DMC name to confuse the public. I appreciate what Josh Bengston is doing for the DeLorean community. It brings a smile to my face every time I hear about another owner ditching their DMCH bought stage 1 or 2 junk for one of his performance exhaust upgrades. I think it's fantastic.


Without the stockpile of DMC parts we have in one place, they would've been sold at auction, piecemeal, and would be scattered and rusting someplace. We'd have a Kaiser/DeSoto/MG brand on our hands, not a chain of dealerships with parts and service.

Actually I would much prefer this over the current chain of lies and misrepresentations. You are also severally misinformed or you just weren't around, there was other interest in this inventory other then that of Mr Wynne. The only way we might have been worse off then we are now is under Stephen's former business partner Ed Bernstein. I think (know) we would have been better off if an original DeLorean dealer that also had interest in these parts (who is also a DeLorean enthusiast) would have been successful in his bid on securing these parts.



Profitability - corporate self-interest as you put it - is what pays the investors back, pays the employees, keeps the enterprise going. Do YOU have the millions of dollars required to purchase even a portion of the inventory available for our cars? Do you show up for YOUR job and tell your boss not to bother to pay you? Anyone can criticize a Michaelangelo sculpture, few can make one. Please reply with your business summary and net worth, I'm curious.

Other then it is absolutely none of your business what I am worth (what are you the IRS?). I am a small business owner, I'll answer that much. As I am my own boss in my situation if my business doesn't make money neither do I. But with my business I do not try to confuse the public about who I really am or what it is I do with a misrepresenting name (they've obviously fooled you "chain of dealerships"? are you now going to call the pole barn in texas a "factory" now like some others have?) "Millions of dollars required to purchase even a portion of the inventory available for our cars?" I've considered it, a few million should do the trick (it's probably too much) as they are relatively low volume (and the NOS parts inventory was acquired by them for less then 1 million) I've talked with potential investors as well. If this ever happened I would get great satisfaction in firing Stephen Wynne (and James Espey) and finally bringing an end to the DeLorean One saga.

Now excuse me I have work to do, my business doesn't run without me.

[Michael]

That's not true. He didn't buy the rights to the name; the rights expired when DMC went out of business and they began operating, unchallenged under their established monicker.

http://blog.roadandtrack.com/tags/delorean-dmc-12-ev/

Now based in Humble, Texas, the DeLorean Motor Company of the present holds the rights to the company name and DMC-12 sports coupe.

http://www.autointhenews.com/delorean-dmc-12-back-to-the-present/

Stephen Wynn, a Houston-area entrepreneur and former mechanic—specializing in DeLoreans, of course—has purchased the rights to the DMC name along with a significant quantity of original but unused DeLorean pieces.

http://www.torquenews.com/106/new-electric-delorean-dmc-12-coming-2013

The popularity of these vehicles spurred Stephen Wynne to acquire the rights to the name in 1995 along with a great many of the assets of the original DeLorean Motor Company which included a tremendous number of “leftover” parts

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/delorean-dmc-12-ev-electric-vehicle,news-12918.html

Stephen Wynne, who founded DeLorean motor Company in 1995 and acquired the rights to the name and logo shortly therafter.

[Jacko]

Wow ... there are certainly a lot of differing opinions on this subject and I guess all of them have merit. Here's my take on it.

I bought my first Delorean in July of '83 and have been driving one ever since. In those early days I developed a business relationship with Jerry Rine and others at Kapac. When Sol Shenk decided to liquidate the Kapac assets I was sent a prospectus and inventory listing of all the Delorean parts they had. I suppose they thought I'd be interested. It's been a long time but I recall his asking price was around $980,000 for the lot. They furnished an exhausting list of the inventory that they claimed had a value of around $28 million ... sounded like a helluva deal to me. I took a hard look at this and the further I delved the less excited I became. I quickly realized this was no project for the faint hearted and I had my own business to run. So, I withdrew my name and was pleasantly surprised to learn a little later that Stephen Wynne had took the plunge. I had met Stephen in his early days with D one and he's a genuine nice guy. I remember that I felt no envy in his taking on the huge project and I was glad someone did. Where would those parts have ended up otherwise? I think Stephen and James have done a good job of pulling all this together and making the parts available to us Delorean owners.

I'm just thankful I didn't go any deeper ... I would be a blubbering idiot now. Stephen, you and James keep on keeping on.

[timothymoore]

[QUOTE=dn010;17713]
My CONCERN is this: DMCH is selling their new build cars for what, 50K? What is happening to the value of my D? Whose going to want to buy my used, old D - how [QUOTE]

this isnt a stab at you, i just decided to quote you for some reason.

just because DMCH puts a base price tag of 57,500 does not mean they are actually selling any. i mean yeah they are selling , but its not like they are selling at an alarming rate. what are they selling, less that 10 a year. me , i have no issue with DMCH or any DMC branch, i think people who already have a D and are fuming about the "New build" name need to get up and move on IMO.....you already have a D, who cares.

If a new customer is stupid enough not to know that it isnt really a new car, than it is there problem. we all know they arent "NEW" cars as every car that comes out of DMC has mileage on it, unless they somehow aquire the 0 mile gold car from the california museum. However i do agree with the term "New build " simply for the fact that they arent buying the car and throwing it back on the market as-is. No, they are actually tearing it down to the frame and redoing from the ground up making it not a "New" car, but wrather a "New build".

here is a simple solution for those who dont like the term "New Build" and that is : Dont buy the new build, buy off of a private owner for less than a 3rd of the price. problem solved!!!!!

[Dracula]

http://blog.roadandtrack.com/tags/delorean-dmc-12-ev/


http://www.autointhenews.com/delorean-dmc-12-back-to-the-present/


http://www.torquenews.com/106/new-electric-delorean-dmc-12-coming-2013


http://www.tomsguide.com/us/delorean-dmc-12-ev-electric-vehicle,news-12918.html

The problem with these sources is that they take DMCH's word that they own the rights to the name since they are, after all, operating as the DeLorean Motor Company. It has been brought up numerous times that the DMC logo fell into the bin of expired trademarks years ago, but does that stop DMCH from saying that they own the logo and sending out "Cease and Desist" letters to smaller companies? On a broader note, how many times has the automotive press published things about the DeLorean that are inaccurate and weren't fully fact-checked; particularly in reference to the JZD legal debacle? What I see from the links you provided is the media taking what's said by DMCH as fact for part of their story on the publicity-whore that is their electric car and then, in turn, is parroted by several other outlets with no additional fact-checking. DMCH has been saying these things for years, so they've become commonly-accepted myths that coincide with their deliberate mis-marketing of themselves as an extension or continuation of the REAL DeLorean Motor Company. Just because it's public belief or said enough times, it doesn't become magically true. If that were, I'd be driving a car that was built in Detroit, out of aluminum, and powered by a Chevy 350.

I'd also like to note that they may be REGISTERED and LICENSED as the "DeLorean Motor Company" and operate as such, probably since 1995, but that's a significant difference between buying up the original name and logo, which they didn't, or re-using the name of a defunct manufacturer and establishing a business under it.

I'd also like to hear more details on how he acquired the name by purchasing it. The articles paint the picture that it was purchased with the parts inventory, but KAPAC never owned the rights to the name or the logo. What they owned was the unsold cars and factory surplus parts. It seems highly coincidental, though not utterly impossible, that they managed to purchase the name, logo, CAR ITSELF, and parts inventory in one year.

On another point of contention, if DMCH owns the right to the car, then does that mean that if I made a movie and wanted to use my DeLorean in it, I'd have to get approval from DMCH? Do I need their approval if I want to run a series of ads with me beside the car? Or does it mean that I can't decide to build my own car and call it the "DMC-12" because they own the rights to it?

[stevedmc]

i think people who already have a D and are fuming about the "New build" name need to get up and move on IMO.....you already have a D, who cares.

This might be easy for someone who parks their Delorean in a garage. For me it is a little different as my car is a daily driver, meaning I have to put up with the misinformed public almost daily. Almost evertime I stop for gas I get approached by someone telling me about the new 2013 Delorean that is coming out in a year or some other comment about Delorean Motor Company being back in business.


On another point of contention, if DMCH owns the right to the car, then does that mean that if I made a movie and wanted to use my DeLorean in it, I'd have to get approval from DMCH? Do I need their approval if I want to run a series of ads with me beside the car? Or does it mean that I can't decide to build my own car and call it the "DMC-12" because they own the rights to it?


Since Steve Wynne now claims to own Delorean Motor company, I have decided to sue his company should any design flaws in my DMC12 cause a fatal accident.

[tyb323]

...but does that stop DMCH from saying that they own the logo and sending out "Cease and Desist" letters to smaller companies?

How many times has that actually happened?

[Dracula]

This might be easy for someone who parks their Delorean in a garage. For me it is a little different as my car is a daily driver, meaning I have to put up with the misinformed public almost daily. Almost evertime I stop for gas I get approached by someone telling me about the new 2013 Delorean that is coming out in a year or some other comment about Delorean Motor Company being back in business.

I have the same problem. It seems to me that those who are the most vocal about this are the people who drive their car constantly. It stands to reason, given that you're giving the car more circulation. I also agree with your point that every time you or I drive our cars, we provide free advertising for DMCH. As such, seeing as we receive no royalties, we can complain about their advertising negatively affecting us.


Since Steve Wynne now claims to own Delorean Motor company, I have decided to sue his company should any design flaws in my DMC12 cause a fatal accident.

This made me laugh. If I do get to attend DCS, I'm adding you to the list of people who I owe a drink to.


How many times has that actually happened?

I know of at least 4.

[stevedmc]

Here is another tidbit for people to think about.

About 10 years ago I used to work for a small computer repair company. One of the things we did was build and sell new computers.

One of our customers had a fire at their office, resulting in a dozen Dell computers having fire damage. Their insurance decided to replace their computers and the business let us have their old fire damaged computers for free.

We found that most of these computers only had melted cases and that the components in them were fine except for the power supplies. Most of the machines just needed a new case and power supply.

Back them RAM was very expensive. These machines had large amounts of RAM in them. Some had as much as 256MB of ram.

I came up with the bright idea that we could test and use the 256MB SDRAM chips in our new computers to save money and increase profit. We of course would provide the same warranty on the part, but wouldn't tell the customer where the RAM came from.

I presented this idea to my boss. I can't remember his exact words but it was something like this, "That wouldn't be the right thing to do. I'm always truthful with my customers and I wouldn't feel right selling it as new."

We ended up selling the used parts/computers as used (with warranty) and disclosed the information to our customers.

[tyb323]

If I do get to attend DCS, I'm adding you to the list of people who I owe a drink to.


Can I be on that list? I'll be a poor recent college graduate who's given you plenty to argue against =)

[thirdmanj]

By that logic, driving around ANY car is free advertising for said company who manufactures said car. I don't receive royalties for driving around my GMC, come on man.

As to filing a lawsuit against DMCH for a defect in your car, assuming you could prove that your Dealorean hasn't been modified, and maintains a 100% stock configuration, and had ALL of it's scheduled maintenance and updates per DMCLs guidelines, and you had some very very very deep pockets, you MIGHT win in court. I find it highly unlikey though, as DMCH clearly states on their FAQ page:

"We have no connection to John DeLorean, the DeLorean estate or the original DeLorean Motor Company. DeLorean Motor Company (Texas) is a privately held corporation based in Humble, Texas."

By driving arround a DeLorean all the time, all you demonstrate is that you're a bit eccentric, saw BTTF 1 to many times, or just plain like attention.

Edit: I'd like also to mention that, Chad brings up a good point about those articles. They demonstrate some very poor journalism on the part of the magazine.

[stevedmc]

By driving arround a DeLorean all the time, all you demonstrate is that you're a bit eccentric, saw BTTF 1 to many times, or just plain like attention.

Arguing with a man who doesn't have a brain is a bit silly, don't you think?

[thirdmanj]

Arguing with a man who doesn't have a brain is a bit silly, don't you think?

I wasn't trying to argue with or insult you in any way. Hey, I drive mine around more than occasionally, and I have no problem being placed in the "eccentric" and "like the attention" category. To me that's part of being a D owner.

[Dracula]

Can I be on that list? I'll be a poor recent college graduate who's given you plenty to argue against =)

We'll see if I can even attend first. I'm a college student attempting to be a used car salesman in this economy and money is scarce. There's also a potential military conflict...


By that logic, driving around ANY car is free advertising for said company who manufactures said car. I don't receive royalties for driving around my GMC, come on man.

Technically, it is. That's how reliability is established and prestige. Granted, I'm still trying to get a job that pays me to drive a conspicuous car in populated places. We'll see if Aston Martin goes for it.


I'd like also to mention that, Chad brings up a good point about those articles. They demonstrate some very poor journalism on the part of the magazine.

This is where issues of public misconception come from. If the "credible sources" publish bad information, then the people who only partially remember what they read, which was flawed to begin with, then the information just becomes more convoluted. The journalism standards have really declined in the technological age and there's nothing that can be done about that.

[stevedmc]

By that logic, driving around ANY car is free advertising for said company who manufactures said car. I don't receive royalties for driving around my GMC, come on man.

Not true. My other car is a Geo Metro. The front logo fell off a long time ago and I sanded and painted over the rear decal. Most people don't recognize what type of car it is and they don't understand why I drive such a crappy car.

I seriously doubt anyone would be interested in it even if I did have the decal and logo on it.

[Dracula]

Not true. My other car is a Geo Metro. The front logo fell off a long time ago and I sanded and painted over the rear decal. Most people don't recognize what type of car it is and they don't understand why I drive such a crappy car.

I seriously doubt anyone would be interested in it even if I did have the decal and logo on it.

You'd be surprised. In this economy, if the price is right, I can sell those cars all day long.

[David T]

I guess by that logic you are also advertising for Universal Studios, they did the BTTF movies. What I object to is when you drive a new car the dealer will put his stickers or license plate frame on to advertise. That I believe is going too far. From a product placement point of view the BTTF movies were a case study in the use of product placement. If you remember there was a whole big thing about Tab. In fact, the Delorean itself was "product placement". Lotus was also big on that. An untold # of Lotus's were sold because 007 drove one in teh Spy who loved me, and Richard Gere in Pretty Woman. What DMCH is not illegal until and if someone were to challenge them. In the meantime enjoy your car and No, you do not have to pay anyone royalties if your car is in a commercial. Good luck in suing anyone for a design defect.
David Teitelbaum

[thirdmanj]

Not true. My other car is a Geo Metro. The front logo fell off a long time ago and I sanded and painted over the rear decal. Most people don't recognize what type of car it is and they don't understand why I drive such a crappy car.

I seriously doubt anyone would be interested in it even if I did have the decal and logo on it.

Yes true (now I am arguing). The vehicle is still recognizable as a Geo like the DeLorean in "The Wedding Singer", it doesn't need it's logo. I don't know if I buy your claim that "most people" don't know what it is I don't know if I'd call it advertising since either since the car is no longer manufactured, but it's a moot point.

Like Chad said, with fuel prices the way they are, i bet you could sell plenty of those cars. I once owned a 92 Geo metro, great car, I tried to kill it and that sucker wouldnt die.

[Alan]

Not true. My other car is a Geo Metro. The front logo fell off a long time ago and I sanded and painted over the rear decal. Most people don't recognize what type of car it is and they don't understand why I drive such a crappy car.

Yes true (now I am arguing). The vehicle is still recognizable as a Geo like the DeLorean in "The Wedding Singer", it doesn't need it's logo. I don't know if I buy your claim that "most people" don't know what it is I don't know if I'd call it advertising since either since the car is no longer manufactured, but it's a moot point.

And furthermore, by Steve's own argument, if he doesn't want to do free advertising for DMCH, all he needs to do is remove all the logos. He can't have it both ways. He's either advertising for any company affiliated with the car's logo he's driving... or he can remove logos and be advertising for none.

By another line of thinking, logo-less, a recognized DeLorean could be advertising for Wynne, Hervry, Josh at DPI, and any other vendor who helped keep it on the road. My apologies to those vendors I forgot to mention.

[Rich]

Here's the latest public story out of Hemmings about the U.S. replica new-build rules, sent to a mailing list by DMCH today:

LINK: Overdue-federal-regulations-force-low-volume-replica-car-builders-to-delay-production (https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/12/19/overdue-federal-regulations-force-low-volume-replica-car-builders-to-delay-production/?refer=newdelorean)

In part:

“The NHTSA has a lot on their plate – they’re still dealing with the airbag issue and now autonomous cars – so we certainly don’t fault them,” said Jim Espey, vice president of the De Lorean Motor Company. “The people at the NHTSA are just as frustrated as us, and they realize we’re in this position, but their hands are tied as much as ours are.”

New twist here? "New" DeLoreans might be available in the EU before a USA release?

Rather than do nothing while waiting for the NHTSA guidelines, Espey said De Lorean is currently pursuing certification as a low-volume manufacturer in the European Union, “where they have longer experience and more understanding of the low-volume manufacturing industry.”

[Rich]

Here's the latest public story out of Hemmings about the U.S. replica new-build rules, sent to a mailing list by DMCH today:

LINK: Overdue-federal-regulations-force-low-volume-replica-car-builders-to-delay-production (https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/12/19/overdue-federal-regulations-force-low-volume-replica-car-builders-to-delay-production/?refer=newdelorean)

In part:

“The NHTSA has a lot on their plate – they’re still dealing with the airbag issue and now autonomous cars – so we certainly don’t fault them,” said Jim Espey, vice president of the De Lorean Motor Company. “The people at the NHTSA are just as frustrated as us, and they realize we’re in this position, but their hands are tied as much as ours are.”

New twist here? "New" DeLoreans might be available in the EU before a USA release?

Rather than do nothing while waiting for the NHTSA guidelines, Espey said De Lorean is currently pursuing certification as a low-volume manufacturer in the European Union, “where they have longer experience and more understanding of the low-volume manufacturing industry.”

Moderators please move this to any more recent DMC new-build thread I may have missed.

[Mark D]

Reviving this thread from the dead. Saw this article today in my google news feed:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/571505/delorean-car-ready-for-a-comeback

I found the last line of the article particularly interesting:


It was an ideal situation for Wynne, with one exception. The FAST Act requires input from the Department of Transportation on specific regulatory details, and the DOT has yet to issue it.

As soon as he's legally able, Wynne plans on producing 22 cars the first year and then ramp up production. The vehicles will likely carry a price tag of around $100,000. Is it a viable business plan? Wynne thinks so. The waiting list of people expressing intent to buy a new DeLorean is in excess of 5000.

5000 people with intent to buy?? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

More like 5000 people have signed up for email updates on the "new" DeLorean website. That hardly means intentions to buy.

Also, here's the latest nothing-burger of an update from DMCH:
http://www.newdelorean.com/blog/

[Michael]

When you get deposits of at least 10%, then you got a serious buyer. Anything less and all you got is a copy and paste list of Facebook DeLorean Fanatics members.

[dodint]

I assume that Mental Floss simply wrote a summary of the Popular Mechanics article that came out about a week ago: https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a25938392/inside-delorean-motor-company/

[opethmike]

We can't produce binnacles, a good dash, or a respectable supercharger package, but we for sure can build "new" cars with modern engines & engine management!

[Timeless]

We can't produce binnacles, a good dash, or a respectable supercharger package, but we for sure can build "new" cars with modern engines & engine management!
+2

[81dmc]

We can't produce binnacles, a good dash, or a respectable supercharger package, but we for sure can build "new" cars with modern engines & engine management!

+3 :rofl:

[DMC-81]

All joking aside, here is an update from April of last year:

"Getting back to the current status of the bill, we find that its implementation continues to be bogged down by bureaucracy. When passed in 2015, the EPA and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration were given 12 months to issue any necessary regulations to implement the law, but the deadline passed without consequence. The documents are now in various stages of completion."

Source:
https://blog.myclassicgarage.com/low-volume-motor-vehicle-manufacturers-act-update-31490e005cb3?gi=8431f362a261

Another article from July 2018:

"Despite pressure from Congress, NHTSA has failed to issue a rule or a timeline on when it will act, putting manufacturing jobs on hold, leaving customers frustrated and small businesses losing millions of dollars."

https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2018/30/superformance-issues-statement-on-nhtsa-delay-on-low-volume-manufacturers-act-of

Apparently many of the manufacturers that will benefit from this law have had to add to their skill set:
- lobbying the EPA and NHSTA to get off their asses and do their job.

[Timeless]

Basically lazy and put on the back burner.....

[Boxbot]

We can't produce binnacles, a good dash, or a respectable supercharger package, but we for sure can build "new" cars with modern engines & engine management!

What about the increasing and significant number of parts that are out of stock? Did they set aside hundreds of each part required to complete the cars aside?

[Timeless]

What about the increasing and significant number of parts that are out of stock? Did they set aside hundreds of each part required to complete the cars aside?
They must have in order to enable them to build new cars - unless there is some parts secret not known about.

[81dmc]

Oh I've been to DMCH. They have a lot of parts horded for "new cars" or for use on dmc service cars.

They can't even make something simple, like new gloveboxes. When I got put on the backorder list they said new ones were a few months out. It's been close to three years now....

Hell, what happened to the promised electric delorean?

Seems like they can never get things in order, and all they like to do is hype. It's turning out like politics. Broken promises.

/End rant else I break more rules:spank:

[CFI]

Seems like they can never get things in order, and all they like to do is hype. It's turning out like politics. Broken promises.


Sounds like the original DMC:rofl:

[81dmc]

Sounds like the original DMC:rofl:

:p

[DrJeff]

Hell, what happened to the promised electric delorean?

The explanation would be that DMCH see more value in the DMC Brand than they do in the DMC Car. Boosting the brand is easy, producing cars (or even bits for cars) is hard (binnacles, fuel pumps - that don't recall). I would guess the service business is break even or modestly profitable to keep the lights on. The stock of parts is simply not easy to monetize at a reasonable pace. The ease with which they can boost the brand value by (every 3 years or so) announcing a 'new' DeLorean car has got to be addictive. I think we're 1 to 2 years away from another electric, hydrogen fuel cell, fusion powered or something DeLorean announcement - it doesn't really matter because there is no effective way to make it real and they get the brand hit without even trying.

Making an electric DeLorean is really hard - ask me how I know.

Jeff

[mr_maxime]

Making an electric DeLorean is really hard - ask me how I know.

Jeff

I just started making mine electric. Mostly copying someone else though.

[Rich]

The NHTSA team has responded. The replica car regulations aren't finished yet but they're one step closer. The regs are out for public comment now.

LINK: NHTSA answers SEMA’s lawsuit by issuing overdue replica vehicle regulations (https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/12/20/nhtsa-answers-semas-lawsuit?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=19_December_24_Newsletter_NewDD)

LINK: SEMA press release 12-19-19 (https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2019/51/nhtsa-issues-draft-replica-car-rule-in-response-to-sema-lawsuit?utm_source=ET&utm_medium=email&utm_content=364514&utm_campaign=eNews)

This is the 118 page Notice of Proposed Rulemaking from NHTSA (https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/replica_vehicle_program_nprm_12172019.pdf)



All joking aside, here is an update from April of last year:

"Getting back to the current status of the bill, we find that its implementation continues to be bogged down by bureaucracy. When passed in 2015, the EPA and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration were given 12 months to issue any necessary regulations to implement the law, but the deadline passed without consequence. The documents are now in various stages of completion."

Source:
https://blog.myclassicgarage.com/low-volume-motor-vehicle-manufacturers-act-update-31490e005cb3?gi=8431f362a261

Another article from July 2018:

"Despite pressure from Congress, NHTSA has failed to issue a rule or a timeline on when it will act, putting manufacturing jobs on hold, leaving customers frustrated and small businesses losing millions of dollars."

https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2018/30/superformance-issues-statement-on-nhtsa-delay-on-low-volume-manufacturers-act-of

Apparently many of the manufacturers that will benefit from this law have had to add to their skill set:
- lobbying the EPA and NHSTA to get off their asses and do their job.

[Michael]

The replica car regulations aren't finished yet but they're one step closer.

https://d31029zd06w0t6.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/2019/10/web1_123819036-7e9dde329ca14754954bb8f8a71899ba.jpg

LOL...even the most optimistic of people can read between the lines on that one. Translation "We ain't even close...we can't even see close from here"

[Michael]

Apparently DMCH is and has been making new DeLoreans and the truth has been kept from us. Now the entire Jeopardy audience knows the real truth and we are just a bunch of uninformed idiots.


62150

I guess it's a true statement technically speaking. They have "started" the process much like JZD started the DeLorean in the mid 70's.

[CFI]

Apparently DMCH is and has been making new DeLoreans and the truth has been kept from us. Now the entire Jeopardy audience knows the real truth and we are just a bunch of uninformed idiots.


62150

I guess it's a true statement technically speaking. They have "started" the process much like JZD started the DeLorean in the mid 70's.

Is that a real screenshot from the show? If so, that’s awesome.

Yes, it’s annoying to keep hearing “new” DeLoreans are available but what other nearly 40 year old orphan car has this kind of exposure?

[Michael]

Is that a real screenshot from the show? If so, that’s awesome.

Yes, it’s annoying to keep hearing “new” DeLoreans are available but what other nearly 40 year old orphan car has this kind of exposure?

It aired Christmas

[DMC-81]

Is that a real screenshot from the show? If so, that’s awesome.

Yes, it’s annoying to keep hearing “new” DeLoreans are available but what other nearly 40 year old orphan car has this kind of exposure?

+1

[Michael]

I personally think misinformation is bad exposure. I really don't like that the average know it all thinks my pristine 1981 DeLorean is just some new car with a Ford engine under the hood. I also am beginning to realize that for every one person I correct, 1,000 more take his place and it's just a hopeless battle. I guess this is exactly what DMCH wanted with all their promises and hyperbole so why should I try and undo what they have spent the last 15 years promoting? From now on this is me:

"Yes I am in fact aware that there is a company in Texas selling them brand new. They are taking orders now. Call James Espy at 1-800-DeLorean and he will walk you through the process."

[WHO1DMC]

Well at a car show I had an argument with a guy who said they only made 3000 Deloreans! Because he heard it on the history channel.



Dave B.

[CFI]

I really don't like that the average know it all thinks my pristine 1981 DeLorean is just some new car with a Ford engine under the hood.

Who cares what other people think? Some people think the Earth is flat, the moon landing never happened, and Elvis is still alive. People like that aren’t worth my time or energy.

[Michael]

Who cares what other people think? Some people think the Earth is flat, the moon landing never happened, and Elvis is still alive. People like that aren’t worth my time or energy.

I don't care..it's when they decide to educate me with their Jalopnik facts is when the problem arises. Like I said, I'm done with the whole ambassador thing. DMCH has floated so much misinformation out there that I am just going to agree with it all or ignore it, but I will never again dispute it.

[dodint]

The Jeopardy clue is technically correct in that wanted is past tense. They didn't do a damn thing, but they wanted folks to know they wanted to do something.