Custom Window Mods?

[rickjames8]

One of my favorite things about driving in general, is the spring and summer time, cruising with the windows down. I think I'll feel a little confined with just the toll booth openings but we'll see.

I'm not under any illusions that I have the time or the patience to undertake the task of trying to modify these windows to open some other way, but I imagine the discussion must have taken place at some point over the past 35 years, and maybe a few attempts.

Here's what I found:

Sliding windows on early prototypes.
A custom car where they've removed the window (https://youtu.be/YYCGKBHSQHo?t=2m13s) (possibly permanently with no plans to take it in and out).
Bob Bradys roll down window, which someone said is $5k.
This thread (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7778-Planning-custom-windows-for-my-car&highlight=windows) which does not seem to have finished.


I was wondering if anyone has ever contemplated leaving the toll booth window functioning as it does, but creating a new large piece of window out of a lighter material that would be removable within a minute or two? I had windows on my Sterling that were like this. I'd open the door, take out the windows, and drive, arrive at the destination and put them back in if needed. It wasn't as much of a pain as you'd think. Furthermore, they 'popped' open a few inches, so if you were just going for a short drive you'd just vent, similar to 'just using the toll booth'. Here's a couple photos for your inspiration.

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The nice thing about this is that you could keep your original fixed windows and re-install them either a) when you sell or b) in the winter time. By the way, my Sterling never leaked during my ownership. This design made a good seal.

Anyone think this idea would work? Any one know of other successful mods other than the ones I found?

[Josh]

Alf did!
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[Chris 16409]

Look at this thread and video from Bob:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1153-Bob-Brandy-s-fullsize-windows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S5KZhPozJc

[Mark D]

Someone with more knowledge about the doors that I do may be able to chime in, but I think I've read in the past that the glass is structurally important. Removing it completely will allow the door to twist and you'll end up messing up your latch alignment.

[Bob635]

Mark,

You raised a question about door structure that we considered years ago when engineering the full size power windows.

Jack Martens, an automobile safety engineer, worked with JZD on both the air bag Ds, and the door design. Jack actually put together a lecture with slides showing him and JZD working Ds that we saw ca. 1990. Unfortunately, Jack died of a brain anyerism over 10 years ago. (I still have his ACRS 1976 Olds.) The slides of this lecture we given to a friend to copy, but I never received the copies, so I don't know if this information will ever see the light of day again.

But back to your question. Jack tested the D doors, relative to the question of roll over protection, and if the windows broke, did that affect the structural integrity of the door.
The windows, whether broken or not did not significantly affect the structural integrity of the doors.

I also tested the flexing of the doors, with or without the windows, as part of the engineering. The doors did not flex anymore than they do with the windows in place.
But the engineering gets even better. With the full size power windows, there are two H channels that bolt to the upper window frame and the crash bar. These actually add structural rigidity to the door. (One of the reason why JZD was so impressed with the design when he came to Cleveland to see the car and try out the windows.

The story gets even more interesting, when you look at the bending of the doors that occur over time-with over torqued torsion bars- that Toby Peterson discovered.

In fact, over torquing of the torsion bars, (instead of buying new struts) will cause your doors to warp over time. You can see this on cars, where the front of the door is not level with the windshield trim. This can NOT be repaired!

However, with the full size power windows, the weight of the door is decreased by over 10 lbs. This very significantly reduces the load on the torsion bars, by potential up to 600 ft.lbs. of torque when the door is closed. So the full size power window doors are subject to less distortion force than a stock D window weight.
'

So in reality, the full size power window doors flex less than the stock design and reduce the load on the torsion bar.

I have had these in the 97 Delorean time Machine for 20 years and they still work great.
These windows have been in the 2015 Electric Delorean for over 5 years now and driving an electric car with the windows open is soooo quiet!.
And these windows are going into the "Dream Delorean"now under construction in IL.

As for full size power window parts - I have enough 2 complete kits and possibly and extra drivers door. I still have to "finish" (paint, etc.) them. I expect to have them for sale by the end of the year. However, I will probably offer the 1st set - completely installed in right and left doors. These are the two display models that we have for Delorean Weekend that people get to play with. This way the new over and change the doors or just uninstall the windows and move them to their existing doors.


So full size power windows will NOT allow the door to twist and actually help keep your door latches aligned.

Bob


Someone with more knowledge about the doors that I do may be able to chime in, but I think I've read in the past that the glass is structurally important. Removing it completely will allow the door to twist and you'll end up messing up your latch alignment.

[Bitsyncmaster]

How do the full size power windows reduce the weight by 10 lbs.? I'm guessing the "glass" is plexiglass.

[DrJeff]

How do the full size power windows reduce the weight by 10 lbs.? I'm guessing the "glass" is plexiglass.

And how does 10 lbs, translate to "600 ft.lbs. of torque when the door is closed"?

[mburshtain]

Alf did!
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Funny, this car from the 2014 Super Bowl commercial belongs today to Eric Remedios. :-)
They removed the fixed glass for the commercial and later installed it back.

https://youtu.be/aUCHy5y23nI

[ssdelorean]

One of my favorite things about driving in general, is the spring and summer time, cruising with the windows down. I think I'll feel a little confined with just the toll booth openings but we'll see.



I actually prefer the tollbooth windows over normal windows. Driving with them down at any speed does not blow wind in your face/head like normal windows when down. Yeah I'm weird.

If I were to mod my windows it would be like the Hardcastle & McCormick Coyote/DeLorean (season 2 & 3 car) where the glass would be removable along with a removable roof section T-Top like feature. So it could be all open or closed up. The show was just all open. No reason to close it up in California. It never rains there :-)

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[Mario]

And how does 10 lbs, translate to "600 ft.lbs. of torque when the door is closed"?

Because the doors are lighter, you can adjust the torsion bars lower, so there is less strain on them when the door is closed.

[DrJeff]

Because the doors are lighter, you can adjust the torsion bars lower, so there is less strain on them when the door is closed.

The statement "This very significantly reduces the load on the torsion bars, by potential up to 600 ft.lbs. of torque when the door is closed" is at best misleading and more likely just wrong by a large factor.

10lbs at a distance of say 2ft (half the height of the door from the hinge) is 20ft lbs. So in terms of ft lbs torque on the torsion bar, this represents maybe 10%. To get 600ft lbs given the size of the door (which sets the distance of the center of gravity from the bar, max 2ft to the midpoint), you would need a door that weighs 300lbs. I would estimate that a fully dressed door is more like 150lbs, which when combined with a distance of 2ft, is say 300 ftlbs of torque on the torsion bar.

So 20 ftlbs reduction from a total of 300 ftlbs is a 6% reduction in torque. I personally wouldn't have put 6% in the "very significantly reduces" category. If the 10lbs is also overestimated, then the 1% drop could fall into the <2% category.

If things were this heavy, it's no wonder DeLoreans can't fly...

Jeff

[delgato]

I would like to try out the two glass piece slide like in the proto type cars.

If it was done right both glass pieces would slide for a variety of air flow in the cabin.

Anybody have some good close ups of any of the prototypes window set up?



Before that I will be trying out the removable single piece glass/plexi.

[Mark D]

Mark,

You raised a question about door structure that we considered years ago when engineering the full size power windows....

...

...So full size power windows will NOT allow the door to twist and actually help keep your door latches aligned.

Bob

Thanks for the detailed info Bob!

[Bob635]

How do the full size power windows reduce the weight by 10 lbs.? I'm guessing the "glass" is plexiglass.

The windows are Lexan which is what is used on Racecar Windshields. The Lexan also has a special hardening "anti scratch"
coating. The windows are made by Proglass, which makes Racecar/Nascar windshields.

In addition, the weight reduction is also from the aluminum H tracks which weigh considerably less than the steel stock track parts.

Bob

[Bob635]

I would like to try out the two glass piece slide like in the proto type cars.

If it was done right both glass pieces would slide for a variety of air flow in the cabin.

Anybody have some good close ups of any of the prototypes window set up?



Before that I will be trying out the removable single piece glass/plexi.

I looked at the original D prototype design and have a picture of them with the Prototype D at an airport. (probably in England)

Only the rear portion slide forward, which was behind the driver/passenger and difficult to reach. The front part can not be made to slide very much because you have to have support/slide lengths at the top and bottom. You end up with only a small open triangular area in front, which is about the same area as the "bread" window!

Been there, done that!

Bob

[Bob635]

[QUOTE=ssdelorean;214222]I actually prefer the tollbooth windows over normal windows. Driving with them down at any speed does not blow wind in your face/head like normal windows when down.

You bring up an interesting point that I was very surprised to find. You can drive the D with the full size power windows down, even at highway speeds, and they are not very noisy and the wind flow is very mild and gentle. Just a great feel of fresh air. In fact, I drive the car, with the windows down even in 50 degree weather.

All I can figure is the aero dynamics of the D are so great that a lot of turbulence does not occur along the sides, very similar to modern cars.

Bob

[GR8SCOTT]

Funny, this car from the 2014 Super Bowl commercial belongs today to Eric Remedios. :-)
They removed the fixed glass for the commercial and later installed it back.

https://youtu.be/aUCHy5y23nI

Love that commercial