Conversion from an Automatic to Manual

[dhaney]

For those who don't know the canyon (for lack of better term) cut into the frame for an automatic is deeper than it is in a manual.

Also the bolt pattern is different and an automatic has a slot whereas the manual has a big round hole for the shift linkage routing back to the transmission. Also a hole needs to be drilled in the canyon back wall for the cross gate cable.

The first step is dealing with the height and bolt pattern difference. Here is a solution I got from Marty. Meier with Delorean Club Midwest.

I've drilled the holes and the second picture is a test fit. It is perfect and now for cutting the hole for the linkage....

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[Drive Stainless]

Is it necessary to cut the round hole? The bottom part of the shifter only moves fore and aft, not side-to-side.

[dhaney]

Not necessarily round but certainly bigger. The automatic slot is in the wrong location and not big enough.

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[dhaney]

Fwiw the test fitting tighten down is rock solid. The final assembly will be done with red loctite and will never come apart.

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[DMC5180]

Have you already sourced a Clutch Pedal box Assembly? I also thought one of the U.K. Guys had made a adapter plate kit that allowed you to just bolt to the existing frame holes. I don't know if it still required cutting the opening in the frame.


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[dhaney]

Yes, I have a pedal box and shifter. There may be adaptor kits but I still don't see how you get away without making the cutout.

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[Mike Griese]

Don't locktite the shifter in place. It does need to come out when the cables wear out. There are also bushings that wear.

[dhaney]

Mike loctite isn't permanent and can be broken free. I'd rather have assurance the assembly is not going to rattle lose than worry about replacing it. I went rough the whole shift mechanism and am using brand new cables and bushings so it will be years before it has to come apart again.

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[dhaney]

Through not rough....

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[Nicholas R]

Are you planning to weld in a new plate or bolt one in? Personally I used 2 pieces of angle iron when I did the auto -> manual conversion (process shown here: http://www.ls1delorean.com/2012/03/two-weekends-of-madness.html).

Also I agree with others, red Loctite (262) has very few uses, especially on a personal car. You shouldn't use it anywhere that you cannot easily get a torch to because it's designed to require heat in order to be removed. Blue loctite (242) would be far more than adequate in this application.

[dn010]

I've had some shifter components come apart on me while driving a long time ago, I had to limp home in second or third gear - I can't remember which but thankfully it wasn't that far of a drive. After that, I used red Loctite as well and finally changed the 35 year old bushings last year without too much trouble getting everything apart.

[dhaney]

I'm not welding anything what you see in the 1st picture is what you get. Bolted in tight it's rock solid. The two 1" rod connectors with a bolt and a flat washers are the exact height needed to raise the shifter up.

We will have to agree to disagree on the loctite. How many times do you really take the shift linkage off? I'd rather not have to dig back into the car after its all back together because something rattled loose. Besides that I've never needed a torch for removing stuff before, is it hard yes, impossible no.

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[Henrik]

The write-up for my auto-to-manual shifter replacement is right here (http://deloreanvr6conversion.blogspot.com/2015/07/car-prepping-shifter.html)

I used an adapter plate from Martin G but after it was all said and done I saw Nicholas Roedl's 2 x 2" angle iron solution which probably would have been a lot less complicated.

[dhaney]

The write-up for my auto-to-manual shifter replacement is right here (http://deloreanvr6conversion.blogspot.com/2015/07/car-prepping-shifter.html)

I used an adapter plate from Martin G but after it was all said and done I saw Nicholas Roedl's 2 x 2" angle iron solution which probably would have been a lot less complicated.
I had already gone through that write up and found a simpler less invasive solution.

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[Nicholas R]

Oh wow, apparently I didn't understand those pictures. I certainly won't tell you how to work on your car, but I will say that that is a huge bending moment you're putting on bolts of that size, especially with such a tiny clamping surface area. By all means, it's your car, but I would be worried about that design.

[Josh]

I had already gone through that write up and found a simpler less invasive solution.

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I dont really see how you can get more simple and less invasive than that bracket. It just bolts in.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Oh wow, apparently I didn't understand those pictures. I certainly won't tell you how to work on your car, but I will say that that is a huge bending moment you're putting on bolts of that size, especially with such a tiny clamping surface area. By all means, it's your car, but I would be worried about that design.

I would think it would work as is but you could always machine some larger "standoffs".

[Nicholas R]

I dont really see how you can get more simple and less invasive than that bracket. It just bolts in.

I agree, if Ed's bracket had been in the market when I did mine, I probably would have considered it. However, since I had already done the body/frame split, access wasn't an issue so bolting in the raised surface was also pretty easy.

[dhaney]

I didn't like the wording when I wrote it.

I certainly think it's a great design. I too would use it if this solution were not as good.

This is a proven method with many miles of use with zero problems.

Though I too like to do things once and am reviewing the angle iron solution.


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[dhaney]

I know that last post sounded wishy-washy.... let me restate...

I didn't mean to demean the very nice angle iron solution to a tricky problem.

I am however very pleased with the way my current solution feels, though there has been no real shifting involved in testing. Though my solution has been used successfully and see as the previously converted car in question has changed hands my bet is the current owner is totally unaware that this method was used to secure the shift linkage.

I am moving ahead though I may experiment with the angle iron solution then determine which I like best.

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[Nicholas R]

From an engineering standpoint, I would say that at a minimum consider increasing the outer diameter of your spacers (assuming you're sure about doing this). The clamping area of your bolts is very important, especially on something you're pulling or pushing so much (creating a bending moment). In the standard configuration, the bottom surface of the shifter assembly reacts this load so the bolts dont see any kind of bending or prying. As a result, their load is purely tensile. With your bolts being so long, and your spacers being so thin walled (and being split), you essentially have a prying force being distributed over a very tiny surface area, that is then putting your bolts into bending.

Something like this would certainly be a step to reducing the loading on your bolts.
49563

What class of bolts are you using?

[dhaney]

From an engineering standpoint, I would say that at a minimum consider increasing the outer diameter of your spacers (assuming you're sure about doing this). The clamping area of your bolts is very important, especially on something you're pulling or pushing so much (creating a bending moment). In the standard configuration, the bottom surface of the shifter assembly reacts this load so the bolts dont see any kind of bending or prying. As a result, their load is purely tensile. With your bolts being so long, and your spacers being so thin walled (and being split), you essentially have a prying force being distributed over a very tiny surface area, that is then putting your bolts into bending.

Something like this would certainly be a step to reducing the loading on your bolts.
49563

What class of bolts are you using?
They are grade 8. Just an fyi Marty Meier who helped me with this is an engineer as well. He's also the person who originally came up with this solution.

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[dhaney]

You think spacers are better than the rod connectors then?

That's an interesting thing to ponder.

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[Nicholas R]

They are grade 8.

Are you using standard hardware instead of metric?


You think spacers are better than the rod connectors then?

That's an interesting thing to ponder.

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Personally I believe it's important to distribute your clamp load over a greater area. Honestly an engineering case could be made either way for whether not to have the spacer be internally threaded.

[dhaney]

Metric bolts.

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[Nicholas R]

Metric bolts.

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Ok; just curious because grade 8 is only applicable for standard hardware. If you're using class 8.8 metric bolts (stamped on the bolt head), you can always consider class 10.9 or class 12.9 for a little extra strength.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Another solution would be to weld four thin steel plates of suitable lenght and height to the collar setup effectively creating a lightweight steel box. It would be simpler and easier than machining large diameter standoffs and prvide much more rigidity to the installation. Though not an engineer by trade I've taught myself to think like one through many years of devising simple yet effective solutions to the small recurrent problems the Delorean's engineering has presented me on a regular basis over time.
Rob

[delgato]

Are you planning to weld in a new plate or bolt one in? Personally I used 2 pieces of angle iron when I did the auto -> manual conversion (process shown here: http://www.ls1delorean.com/2012/03/two-weekends-of-madness.html).

I asked before about converting my auto frame to manual and someone linked me to your blog. I think the two piece angle idea is brilliant. This is what I ended up doing. I was previously thinking of other solutions and even heard the idea of the raised long stand offs but I just didn't like the thought of that. Thankfully I did get to see your blog and that saved the day simply and efficiently. A very cleaver idea, thank you for sharing.

My personal concern now is that I cut out the entire auto mounting plate section so it is just one huge hole. Just recently I thought that might not be a good idea since the original plate may have helped keep the structure of the tube part of the frame more ridged.

Does the original mounting plate in the frame add any support to the overall structure?