New DELOREAN production update

[dvfr750f]

Anyone know whats going to happen with DMC and the new run of cars?
Edited by mods

[Soundkillr]

Do not make a post with your views of politics. Quick way to get a time out here.

[Andrew]

The delay is probably related to the lack of binnacles. ;-)

[dmcnc]

My best guess is they're stalling based on uncertainty from lack of further legislation / rulemaking for the implementation of low-volume vehicle manufacturing according to their last update. Perhaps not a big priority right now with the snafu in DC pre and post-elections. Wouldn't be the first time this car's production is halted over politics.

[David T]

My best guess is they're stalling based on uncertainty from lack of further legislation / rulemaking for the implementation of low-volume vehicle manufacturing according to their last update. Perhaps not a big priority right now with the snafu in DC pre and post-elections. Wouldn't be the first time this car's production is halted over politics.

My guess is they need a certain minimum amount of pre-orders before they commit to production. Probably many parts need to be ordered, reproduced, acquired, etc before they can actually build the cars so they are taking deposits to build up a fund to get started. One example would be drivertrains. You do not order them one at a time. Say you must buy 50. You probably would want at least 25 cars committed to (or more) before buying the drivetrains. As I understand it, DMCH already has the authority to build the cars. I don't think politics has anything to do with it.

[dmcnc]

My guess is they need a certain minimum amount of pre-orders before they commit to production. Probably many parts need to be ordered, reproduced, acquired, etc before they can actually build the cars so they are taking deposits to build up a fund to get started. One example would be drivertrains. You do not order them one at a time. Say you must buy 50. You probably would want at least 25 cars committed to (or more) before buying the drivetrains. As I understand it, DMCH already has the authority to build the cars. I don't think politics has anything to do with it.

Not disagreeing with you at all, David - everything you said is very likely if anything. That said, from their last update in October 2016:

"As mentioned before, while the legislation that allows for low-volume vehicle manufacturing was signed into law in December of 2015, the actual rulemaking process for the implementation of the law is in the hands of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and the California Air Resources Board (CARB).

The latest update from the EPA indicates they may issue a “guidance document” that will spell out how low-volume manufacturers (like DMC) can register with the EPA and comply with the laws regarding installation of certified engine packages.

CARB officials are working with several companies seeking an “Executive Order” – commonly known as an “EO” – for engine packages that are suitable for the low-volume manufacturer’s use. This, along with some other action still being defined, is necessary in order to take advantage of the federal law.

NHTSA staff are considering how best to implement the new legislation, and currently have no timetable for issuing regulations or guidance documents. The Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) has been working closely with the low-volume law sponsors, Representative Gene Green (D-TX) and Representative Markwayne Mullin (R-OK), in urging NHTSA to consider issuing a “guidance document” allowing sales to begin in 2017 even if regulations were still being drafted.

Accordingly, on October 12, 2016 we submitted a “Request for Interpretation” letter to the Chief Counsel of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that would deem DeLorean Motor Company eligible to sell vehicles while NHTSA drafts regulations. We’ll report more on this as it develops."


Reference:
http://www.newdelorean.com/october-2017-low-volume-update/

If I had to restate my first post, I'd say this sounds more like a bureaucratic nightmare than politics, but I'm sure we can only speculate until Houston pushes out any further updates.

[David T]

Not disagreeing with you at all, David - everything you said is very likely if anything. That said, from their last update in October 2016:

"As mentioned before, while the legislation that allows for low-volume vehicle manufacturing was signed into law in December of 2015, the actual rulemaking process for the implementation of the law is in the hands of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and the California Air Resources Board (CARB).

The latest update from the EPA indicates they may issue a “guidance document” that will spell out how low-volume manufacturers (like DMC) can register with the EPA and comply with the laws regarding installation of certified engine packages.

CARB officials are working with several companies seeking an “Executive Order” – commonly known as an “EO” – for engine packages that are suitable for the low-volume manufacturer’s use. This, along with some other action still being defined, is necessary in order to take advantage of the federal law.

NHTSA staff are considering how best to implement the new legislation, and currently have no timetable for issuing regulations or guidance documents. The Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) has been working closely with the low-volume law sponsors, Representative Gene Green (D-TX) and Representative Markwayne Mullin (R-OK), in urging NHTSA to consider issuing a “guidance document” allowing sales to begin in 2017 even if regulations were still being drafted.

Accordingly, on October 12, 2016 we submitted a “Request for Interpretation” letter to the Chief Counsel of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that would deem DeLorean Motor Company eligible to sell vehicles while NHTSA drafts regulations. We’ll report more on this as it develops."


Reference:
http://www.newdelorean.com/october-2017-low-volume-update/

If I had to restate my first post, I'd say this sounds more like a bureaucratic nightmare than politics, but I'm sure we can only speculate until Houston pushes out any further updates.

While all of that mumbo-jumbo may have some truth to it, DMCH may be using it to also stall on production while still taking initial orders. I would not take DMCH's word for it, my guess is you can go over to the .gov agencies and check for yourself as to what the status is. But on the other hand it is believable that if you depend on the government to help you you will have a long wait and eventually wind up disappointed. There are 2 other companies in the same position as DMCH, it would be interesting to see what they are doing.

[durech]

I spoke with Sarah @ DMCH back in February as I was wondering if they had made any progress on the redesign of the front suspension and she inform me that "... We have yet to make any real progress on the new car due to the EPA and NHTSA not finalizing the fine print to the production rule on schedule. It was supposed to have been done last December but has not happened yet. Maybe the new administration will help that along, but for now we are in a holding pattern so we don't move forward and spend money on developing something that can't be used in the final product..."

[DL4567]

I spoke with Sarah @ DMCH back in February as I was wondering if they had made any progress on the redesign of the front suspension and she inform me that "... We have yet to make any real progress on the new car due to the EPA and NHTSA not finalizing the fine print to the production rule on schedule. It was supposed to have been done last December but has not happened yet. Maybe the new administration will help that along, but for now we are in a holding pattern so we don't move forward and spend money on developing something that can't be used in the final product..."

I get all my updates on the "new DMC's" from morons at every gas station!!!

No need to search for answers. Go fill up your car, and it's all people will tell you.

[Michael]

Those of us who have been into DeLoreans for the past decade know these crys of "Wolf Wolf!" all too well. To put it bluntly, I have heard it so many times in the past that I stopped caring if and or when any new car will ever come.

[Rich_NYS]

When someone wants to do something, they usually just do it and sort out the details later.

....sound familiar?

[louielouie2000]

I spoke with Sarah @ DMCH back in February as I was wondering if they had made any progress on the redesign of the front suspension and she inform me that "... We have yet to make any real progress on the new car due to the EPA and NHTSA not finalizing the fine print to the production rule on schedule. It was supposed to have been done last December but has not happened yet. Maybe the new administration will help that along, but for now we are in a holding pattern so we don't move forward and spend money on developing something that can't be used in the final product..."

I thought the whole point of this exercise was for DMC-Texas to unload excess inventory? They are talking about redesigning/sourcing a hell of a lot of components/systems at this point.

So this is the newest article I've found about the whole Low Volume Vehicle Manufacturers Act. It states that the only engine to receive a California Air Resources Board Executive Order to be able to be installed legally in a low volume vehicle is the GM LS3 E-Rod. DMC-Texas has only spoken in the past about 6 cylinder engine replacements- I highly doubt they'd forgo the California market, especially given the fact they can't sell their Stage II & III kits there.

https://www.rcnmag.com/news/low-volume-legislation-encapsulation

It looks like the new Checkers will be using LS3 E-Rod, and that they are waiting on NHTSA regulations:

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/01/18/reborn-checker-production-expected-to-begin-in-2018/

This article also seems to confirm the NHTSA and EPA are still holding up the show:

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2017/01/17/dynacorn-mustang

Though this article makes it sound like Superformance is already selling their GT40 under these rules:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kbrauer/2017/02/06/superformance-gt40-versus-ford-gt/#79ba40076d80

For reference, here's the text of the law- fully amended and signed into law by the president in December 2015:

https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/114th-congress/house-report/906/1

[opethmike]

Have they sold more than one or two stage 3s in the first place? :deviltail::deviltail::deviltail:

[WNY1983]

My Guess is they are getting a correct inventory count on the luggage sets and DeLorean wine left over from the past, so they can use these as promotional items for future new DeLorean sales. I recall the Tucker Car company used luggage as an incentive to sell their cars.

[Mark D]

DMCH be like:

2017 NEW DeLoreans* OMG Herp derp look at this hipster video trailer we made!!

*Actual DeLoreans may or may not available due to excessive red tape. Pricing, ability to order, vehicle details, availability of components, project feasibility are subject to change, cancellation and indefinite delay.




As another well known Texan once said:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=39390&d=1453993338

[Andrew]

Frankly it's getting annoying answering questions from people at the gas station about the "new" DeLoreans. I just tell everyone that I will believe it when I see it.

[mr_maxime]

The guy at the gas station told me you can still buy them brand new from the factory right now so I don't know what you guys are debating about.

[NJP548]

The guy at the gas station told me you can still buy them brand new from the factory right now so I don't know what you guys are debating about.

Did he speak 'matter-of-factly' like he's been involved in the car for years and knows all about it?

[mluder]

So this is the newest article I've found about the whole Low Volume Vehicle Manufacturers Act. It states that the only engine to receive a California Air Resources Board Executive Order to be able to be installed legally in a low volume vehicle is the GM LS3 E-Rod. DMC-Texas has only spoken in the past about 6 cylinder engine replacements- I highly doubt they'd forgo the California market, especially given the fact they can't sell their Stage II & III kits there.

https://www.rcnmag.com/news/low-volume-legislation-encapsulation

Though this article makes it sound like Superformance is already selling their GT40 under these rules:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kbrauer/2017/02/06/superformance-gt40-versus-ford-gt/#79ba40076d80


So Superformance is forgoing the California market? Because the claims of the first article are negated the second in that case. Unless I misunderstood.

Cheers
Steven

[DMCVegas]

So Superformance is forgoing the California market? Because the claims of the first article are negated the second in that case. Unless I misunderstood.

Cheers
Steven

Exactly. Even once the EPA approves this and the Federal regulations get sorted out, that's only at the Federal level, meaning that the cars are only 49-state legal. The largest market of all California, would be ruled out.

Even then, California has it's own set of rules. So the Replica platforms must be CARB approved. Once that hurdle gets cleared, then there is another legal challenge on the horizon: You see, the EPA leaves engine swaps to the states to legislate at their level. And California has strict rules that swaps can only, legally occur with vehicles with the same engines and emissions controls approved for the platform at the time of construction. Meaning for example, if you have, for example, an early 90's Ford F-150, you could swap out the I-6 for a V-8 if you take the time to graft in all of the same emissions controls systems. Which is a LOT of work. So if you have a DMC-12 from Northern Ireland with a PRV, are you allowed then to swap out a modern engine from DMCH's DMC-12 platform from Texas? Early comments allude that CARB is very keen on granted such an exemption since the modern engines would be much cleaner. But that is still a whole other bunch of legal paperwork to sort out before these cars can hit the streets.

[opethmike]

Robert, I'm disappointed in the relative brevity of your pontification.

[DMCVegas]

I only say what needs to be said. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more.

[David T]

I only say what needs to be said. Sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more.

You would think Federal rules and laws take precedence over local and State laws and rules. This is the kind of nuttiness that created sanctuary cities. In years past the federal government would send in troops to enforce federal law. It is really hard to have interstate commerce when everybody can make their own local rules.