More Popular, Manual or Auto?

[beatboy77]

What do you feel is more desirable to the DMC-12 crowd, a Manual or Auto? Why?

Josh

[Andrew]

From a macro perspective, manual DeLoreans tend to be more desirable for a number of reasons including:

More responsive performance;
More of a sports car feel;
A more interactive driving experience between the car and the driver.

I know of a few owners who have sold their automatics to purchase a 5 speed. In contrast, I've seen very few examples of the opposite.

The automatics also had a troublesome computer control system; however, I hear far less complaints about those in more recent years.

Obviously automatics do have some advantages. If you do a lot of stop-and-go driving in heavy traffic, an automatic can be nice. Also for those who don't know how to drive a stick shift car and have no desire to learn, an automatic is the obvious choice.

[eight8toy]

^ Agreed. Inevitably every time I'm accelerating hard to merge on the freeway and I throw it into 5th gear I usually say "Let's see if those bastards can do 90!" Except I'm usually only going 60 and no one is chasing me lol.

Manual all the way!

[David T]

^ Agreed. Inevitably every time I'm accelerating hard to merge on the freeway and I throw it into 5th gear I usually say "Let's see if those bastards can do 90!" Except I'm usually only going 60 and no one is chasing me lol.

Manual all the way!

While the 5-speed is the more common and desirable choice, it doesn't seem to affect the value. They each have their pluses and minuses. All of the problems for each have their own fixes, the automatic often being more expensive to fix than the 5-speed.

[Michael]

The most important is get what YOU want and don't worry about other's preferences.

[Jonathan]

The most important is get what YOU want and don't worry about other's preferences.

Yes, this ^

Mods, please close this thread as we've reached a conclusion.

[AugustneverEnds]

When I would dream about getting a D I always assumed I would only be interested in a manual. When I began seriously considering buying one I was still not even considering an automatic. Then I test drove 10287 and did a complete turn around; I was not disappointed at all, much more pleasantly surprised that the car was still very entertaining and relaxed to drive. It's been nearly 5 years with an auto and I am still very happy. I have had the governor rebuilt and replaced the filter and pan gasket and that has been it.

[Lwanmtr]

While I havent driven a manual..the 4 miles I drove in my automatic was quite nice (aside of all the creaking and wheel falling off)...hehe.

[Iznodmad]

"Historically" a manual has been more "popular". There was a point in time where it was being reported that build cars from DMCH were being ordered almost exclusively as autos. Different strokes for different folks. I've got one of each with an extra side of manual. My best advice for anyone is get the best overall car you can afford no matter trans or interior color or year or whatever. That is, unless price is no object of course. I'm pretty sure there are multiple threads similar to this one if you dig deep enough.

[Delorean Industries]

We only build manual gearbox cars for what it's worth. Also stopped producing stainless frame sections for auto cars. They leak in ways that require massive work to fix, can't take serious power without massive modifications and take away more than they give in general.

[Iznodmad]

Except mine.....the only dpi efi twin turbo auto tranny to ever be produced, now and forever.

[Delorean Industries]

This is correct. There will never be another.

[artisticent]

Personally I looked for an auto. Figured more universally desirable and user friendly. These are around 160 hp? I'm not sure I'm interested in squeezing the little bit more power out of a manual.

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[Lwanmtr]

Base is 130hp.

[artisticent]

Corrected lol. Thank you

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[Lwanmtr]

hehe..yeah we dont have alot, specially by modern standards...but thing like perfomance air filter and exhaust can help...even for us auto owners...hehe.

[artisticent]

I firmly am an avid lover of certain cars being manual. But Mr auto D had plenty of power, very zippy and a no brainer to drive. Good times

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[Lwanmtr]

I did my time with manual..nothing wrong with them...but I like the laziness an auto offers...hehe. And nope, I dont want self driving cars..lol

[DaraSue]

I've heard that the autos shift more efficiently to get the optimum torque on uphill climbs, can anyone confirm or deny?

If I had it to do over again I might have been more open to getting an automatic. I never bought another auto again after the problems I had with my Mazda 323 in high school but shifting this one is a lot more effort than my Honda.

[DMCVegas]

I've heard that the autos shift more efficiently to get the optimum torque on uphill climbs, can anyone confirm or deny?

If I had it to do over again I might have been more open to getting an automatic. I never bought another auto again after the problems I had with my Mazda 323 in high school but shifting this one is a lot more effort than my Honda.

That's a tricky question: Depends on the transmission. In the past automatics were less powerful because of the limited number of gears available. 3 auto vs. 4-5 on a manual. Not to mention that humans could more quickly calculate shift points. But as time went on, automatic transmissions caught up in terms of available gears and better computers integrated into the engine that could shift more efficiently than most humans because they were able to react quicker. But then you have problems with power loss via the torque convertor until it fully locks up.

But that's strictly speaking about your traditional hydraulic automatics. Many manufacturers have toyed with CVTs, but the future standard will be the DCT. Which is literally a manual transmission with the shifter removed, and a computer that controls two rotating cams that move the internal forks that select gears, and the clutches to shift a 6-speed manual automatically. Because even then, the design of the manual transmission was more efficient than the automatic, so they just found a way to automate stickshifts.

Also, don't let the one experience with a car decide your opinion on others. Hell, I have a '14 Focus with DCT. Two years before, they were a nightmare. But the manufacturer stepped up and improved things. '14 is when they got the transmission right, and '16 is when they really got the computers finally sorted out. I had a warranty claim and got a new '17 TCM installed. The thing is better than new, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. But had I have had the earlier model without the problems sorted out, it would probably have been a different result.

Personally, I'm not a fan of automatic DeLoreans. I drove one once, and while it was a nice car, it just didn't seem to have the same power as my manual for climbs. I feel your pain with the cutch though, that thing is heavy as hell in traffic. But for hill climbs, I've always love mine for the mountains with the PRV. It's not a drag racer, but the torque always let my car keep pulling up steep grades like it was still on flat land.

[Rich W]

The DeLorean World Tour Team Drives Automatic DeLoreans

http://www.deloreanworldtour.com

Over 44,000 trouble-free miles (over 70,000 KM) with the automatics.

Speaking of Hills and Mountains ... I loved reading about this option:

Himalaya Switch

http://www.deloreanworldtour.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=401:02-07-2015-en&catid=13:news-en&lang=en&Itemid=107

Unfortunately, significant landslides in 2015 took out the roads to be used to traverse much of the Himalayan Mountains,
so an alternate destination was selected to replace the Himalayas. The DWT Team still traversed many mountains on tour.


Note: As of 2017, the DWT Team has driven the automatic DeLoreans in 39 countries (and still counting).

[Nicholas R]

The DeLorean World Tour Team Drives Automatic DeLoreans

http://www.deloreanworldtour.com

Over 44,000 trouble-free miles (over 70,000 KM) with the automatics.

Speaking of Hills and Mountains ... I loved reading about this option:

Himalaya Switch

http://www.deloreanworldtour.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=401:02-07-2015-en&catid=13:news-en&lang=en&Itemid=107

Unfortunately, significant landslides in 2015 took out the roads to be used to traverse much of the Himalayan Mountains,
so an alternate destination was selected to replace the Himalayas. The DWT Team still traversed many mountains on tour.


Note: As of 2017, the DWT Team has driven the automatic DeLoreans in 39 countries (and still counting).

It's worth noting that the reason that they did this was because they felt that the potential failures of an automatic transmission were easier to fix on the road than those of a manual. When we met up with them, Wolfgang said that he felt that there were more shops that could service automatic transmissions, and that the wear/breakable parts were more common and sourcable than there are shops that can service and source the parts for the manual transmission.

They also did a lot to protect those transmissions, including adding dedicated transmission coolers, and almost doubling the amount of transmission fluid being circulated.

[Farrar]

Are you trying to figure out which to buy? Test drive one of each and see what suits you. Should be an easy decision at that point.

Autos are popular with people who like autos. Manuals are popular with people who like manuals. That's that sorted. ;)


They also did a lot to protect those transmissions, including adding dedicated transmission coolers, and almost doubling the amount of transmission fluid being circulated.

Good choice. In my opinion the stock cooler is ok but it's "just good enough" and makes a crowded space even more crowded. I plan to install a remote cooler with fan at some future date.

I do a lot of driving in stop-and-go traffic, besides which I never learned how to drive stick and I have terrible knees. I bought an auto. Yes, you're going to get worse fuel economy on the interstate because at 70+ MPH you're doing close to 3,000 RPM, but does anyone buy a DeLorean because of the fuel economy? ;)

FWIW (not much) my auto was shifting poorly in 2010, and since I installed Jeff Angwin's computer at that time it has been perfect. Going back through the previous owner's receipts, I see that the car was already on its third computer by then. Since I bought the car in 2007, I think the computer that failed on mine must have been NOS. As such, I can make no comments on the new "digital" computer from Houston & affiliates but I imagine it's a great deal better than any unit manufactured in 1981.

[Lwanmtr]

Autos are popular with people who like autos. Manuals are popular with people who like manuals. That's that sorted. ;)

Thats really what it comes down to.

Also as an auto owner, our cars are even rarer than the manuals 8)

[Michael]

If you're selling an auto the pitch reads:
"This car has the much rarer auto transmission found in only a handful of these already hard to find cars"

If you are selling your manual:

"Equipped with the much more desirable and faster 5 speed"

[Lwanmtr]

If you're selling an auto the pitch reads:
"This car has the much rarer auto transmission found in only a handful of these already hard to find cars"

If you are selling your manual:

"Equipped with the much more desirable and faster 5 speed"

Thems fightin' words....lol

But really its all about personal preference...I didnt buy the car for speed...hehe. If I had the money and could find a suitable replacement, I wouldnt mind getting a more modern auto with more gears. hehe

[DMC5180]

Today's DCT transmissions are up to 10 speeds. I rented a Chrysler 200 over the xmas holidays and was thoroughly impressed with the All around performance and Smoothness of the 9 speed transmission. It was my first time driving a vehicle with that type of tranny.


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[Lwanmtr]

Even my 99 Mustang's tranny was better..would be around 2500 rpm at 70mph. Sadly I dont even pretend to know what it would take to put some other transmission in...all I know is that it's not just a bolt in the new one thing..hehe.

[David T]

The mechanical part of the Renault automatic transmission is pretty reliable. It is the shift computer that kills the tranny so fixing the shift computer = longer transmission life and that's easy to do. For the most part the biggest complaint is leaks. Messy but it will still work.
The manual is a LOT peppier to drive and you determine when to shift so you can drive it sporty or you can drive it conservatively. The biggest thing is the clutch and they aren't all that expensive and even the roll pins are cheap, it is the labor to do it. The choice comes down to how you intend to use the car and what type of driving you enjoy. If you live where there is a lot of traffic the choice is easier, the auto wins. The manual is not all that much performance by today's standards and the auto is even less.

[Nicholas R]

Even my 99 Mustang's tranny was better..would be around 2500 rpm at 70mph. Sadly I dont even pretend to know what it would take to put some other transmission in...all I know is that it's not just a bolt in the new one thing..hehe.

More than you can imagine. First and foremost before ANYTHING else, you have to find an automatic transaxle setup that operates in the rear engine configuration.

People say stupid things like: "drop a powerglide in it" or "stick a hydramatic transmission in it, you'll be fine!" People have even bought these cars assuming they'll be able to just swap a Small Block Chevy/Muncie M22 drivetrain in and be set. Ridiculous.

I only know of one car that ever successfully swapped automatic transmissions. My understanding is that it was a Porsche Tiptronic unit, but that it still had to be shifted manually (just with no clutch). I could be wrong, but this was what I had previously heard.

Supposedly the Renault 4141 3 speed was succeeded by the Renault AR4 4 speed but I've never heard anyone trying to change transmissions. I dont really know anything about the AR4 other than that it exists.

[Farrar]

More than you can imagine. First and foremost before ANYTHING else, you have to find an automatic transaxle setup that operates in the rear engine configuration.

They flipped the ring gear to make the Renault 4141 work in the DMC-12. As far as I know, that's the only internal modification that needed to be done.


I only know of one car that ever successfully swapped automatic transmissions. My understanding is that it was a Porsche Tiptronic unit, but that it still had to be shifted manually (just with no clutch). I could be wrong, but this was what I had previously heard.

If you're referring to Bob Brandys' "97 DeLorean Time Machine," I believe the computer control was functional, if I heard correctly here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HipMfcbNArw (Apologies if you've seen this vid already.)


Supposedly the Renault 4141 3 speed was succeeded by the Renault AR4 4 speed but I've never heard anyone trying to change transmissions. I dont really know anything about the AR4 other than that it exists.

If memory serves, the AR4 was used on the Renault Safrane, but that was a front-wheel drive application. Not sure if the torque converter was locking (ours is non-locking). Also not sure if anyone's tried to install one to a DMC-12; I guess that depends on if you could just take the AR4 and flip the ring gear to make it compatible a la Dunmurry Engineering ;)

[Rich W]

Actually, Nick and Farrar are both somewhat correct.

Although the shift computer can be programmed, a "best case" mapping has not been able to be programmed (yet).

The majority of time I have seen the car being driven (by Bob or Gail), the car has been shifted "manually".

In any case, Bob Brandys (Bob635) will likely chime in here at some point.

I'm not sure exactly what Bob has planned for the transmission in his New Dream DeLorean Project (2017).