Should I rebuild the engine in my CRX? [Archive] - DMCTalk Forum

DaraSue

06-12-2017, 07:52 PM

So my daily driver didn't pass inspection. My mechanic says it's burning oil and I might be able to get it through with a heavier oil and/or registering it in a county with no emissions testing, but at most I'd be buying another year or two. It's got 280, 000 miles on it. To get the engine rebuilt would be around $5000. I guess numerically it doesn't make sense since the plastic panels are cracked and the metal panels are rusting and it probably needs some suspension work too, plus it's getting increasingly hard to find parts for.

But I kind of want to do it anyway just because I've literally had this car for almost my entire adult life and it's been more reliable than my immediate family. And I just don't like any other kind of car (aside from the obvious).

I guess I could try and do it myself but I don't have a lot of mechanical experience.

I wish I were the kind of person who could let go of things easily...

Lwanmtr

06-12-2017, 08:04 PM

Tough choice....you'd never get back what you put into it..those are worth about $2000 or so.

Can understand the sentimental value though...and who knows, in 20 years it might be worth something

Of course $5000 would get you a pretty nice daily runner like a Mustang or something...or you could put that into the D and make that your daily :)

Soundkillr

06-12-2017, 09:16 PM

Find a compatable jdm engine. Most engines imported from japan have less than 40k on them. I got a swap done on my integra back in the day, paid 600 for a 37k mile engine, and 500 to install. Sold the car years later, and it's still on the road today.

David T

06-12-2017, 09:41 PM

Probably cheaper to go to a junkyard (auto recycler) and get another motor. Try to get another from the same model and year and with the same options so you don't have to modify anything. If possible you want to see it run before they remove it.

Lwanmtr

06-12-2017, 09:54 PM

IMO if you replace the engine, its better to get a crate motor thats got a warranty than something from a junkyard..cost a little more but worth it.

AugustneverEnds

06-12-2017, 10:16 PM

Since you like it you should keep it! There must be a salvage yard near you with a CRX engine or a similar Honda mill for less than $1000. If not near you then someone, somewhere has an engine they are dying to sell. Off to craigslist!!

DMCVegas

06-13-2017, 12:14 AM

Here are your best bets for resources thus far.

http://www.crxcommunity.com/

http://www.car-part.com/

Personally, I'd just swap the engine. It's about $400-$500 for a junkyard one.

DaraSue

06-13-2017, 02:02 AM

Thanks, everybody. I'm looking around at what my options are as far as just replacing the engine. JDM only seems to have the gen 2 engines but this site might actually have one for my year: http://www.rebuiltcrateengines.com/auto/honda.html Has anybody used them?

I'm taking mine back to the shop tomorrow to see if there's anything we can tweak to at least get me some more time to look at other possibilities. IDK if my mechanic considered that I didn't necessarily have to keep the original engine.

Just checked my local classifieds and there's a guy selling another 87 (but an SI - fuel injected instead of carb) so maybe I'll give that a look. It's only got 100k and change so if the engine is in decent shape it might be a good donor. Or if it runs as good as mine did I guess I could accept just keeping mine for parts, since this one looked to be in decent shape body-wise and mine... is not.

Arrgh, I had the chance to get another one exactly like mine (same color and everything) earlier last year but never could sync up with the seller so I let it go. Maybe it wouldn't have been all that b/c it didn't have a current inspection so there might've been a reason why. Still kicking myself now though... :banghead:

If I lived someplace where it didn't snow 8 months a year I really would just use the D as my daily, heh. It's actually running good now!

(Edit: just checked the FAQ on CRXcommunity and I'd have to get the fuel system replaced too plus some rewiring if I wanted to swap in the SI engine. Not necessarily a dealbreaker, but another factor to consider. Hmmm...)

Lwanmtr

06-13-2017, 02:39 AM

If I lived someplace where it didn't snow 8 months a year I really would just use the D as my daily, heh. It's actually running good now!

Guess its time to move....hehe

DMCVegas

06-13-2017, 03:57 AM

I know nothing about Hondas, let alone the CRX. Which as you can see with that FAQ about the FI vs. Carb engines, that's precisely why you'd want to go to that group to ask such questions.

Personally, and this is just me applying general car knowledge here, you options are either swapping in a used engine, or going with a sourced rebuilt one. Salvage engines are cheaper, but that is because you're taking a chance. Both in terms of the vehicle's previous maintenance, as well as potential problems with that particular engine, if there are any (again, Honda, I've no idea).

On the other hand, you have the rebuilt engine. If you went that route, absolutely I would opt for someplace that rebuilds engines professionally instead of relying upon your mechanic. Nothing against your mechanic, but it's not his/her main business. The engine rebuilders do this stuff every day, and tend to be less error-prone. Plus, if there are any commonly known issues with the engine, they'll know to address them during the build process. A general mechanic might miss those items.

Granted there are certain considerations involved here with either engine type you purchase, such as if it's a short block (without cylinder head), or a long block (includes cylinder head). Even with a long block, it's not 100% drop-in considering that the ancillary components still need to be unbolted from the old block and installed into the new (fuel system, alternator, water pump, hoses, etc.). That costs time/money. The additional consideration with the remanufactured engine is that you have to not only have a core charge, but you must pay for shipping on the replacement engine, as well as the core that you send back. Unless you are driving to pick it up yourself. The good news is that some auto recyclers also sell fully remanufactured engines as well. Check around, and call to see about the shipping costs as well.

Granted as well there is the consideration of the structural integrity of the vehicle. If it has significant rust damage, you may just opt for the cheap, used engine. If it's fine, and it especially is something you want to keep and fix up, then it's worth it to opt for the remanufactured engine if you have the means.

Just checked my local classifieds and there's a guy selling another 87 (but an SI - fuel injected instead of carb) so maybe I'll give that a look. It's only got 100k and change so if the engine is in decent shape it might be a good donor. Or if it runs as good as mine did I guess I could accept just keeping mine for parts, since this one looked to be in decent shape body-wise and mine... is not.

Assuming that this vehicle isn't somehow wrecked or undrivable, and is in good shape, I'd just buy it to make my primary car, and then pull your existing CRX into the garage to wrench on and learn how to repair yourself. Hell, here's a guy that's got a nice two-for available. Probably the one you're talking about, and I'd be worried about the misaligned panels and respray:

http://www.ksl.com/auto/listing/3761879?ad_cid=3

Dangermouse

06-13-2017, 08:39 AM

If you are chasing tin-worm on your car, and the 100k mile is solid, it's a no-brainer just to buy it as the DD.

To restore your current CRX is only a viable option if you do the labor yourself and that probably means weeks and weeks of work, if not months and months. That would give you time to source the specific engine you want.

I can understand wanting to keep and restore it, as it has sentimental value, but in the meantime you have to get to work, if only to pay for the restoration and/or engine swap.

DaraSue

06-13-2017, 01:29 PM

Well, the bad news is, even with synthetic 10W40 it still didn't pass. The good news is, I've finally hit the magic 30 years where I qualify for vintage plates so it turns out I don't actually have to get it smogged anymore. Officially it's not supposed to be used as a daily driver but from what I'm hearing they don't go out of their way to enforce it and the D pretty much is my daily driver during the summer anyway so I don't feel as under the gun to make a decision in the next 3 days, at least.

I messaged the guy with the two CRXs on KSL. The white one was the one I was originally looking at, but the red one looks to be a DX so if it's in better shape than mine the parts should be compatible. Haven't heard back yet but now as long as I don't blow a gasket in the next year I'll have some time to audition potential replacements and/or look for a new engine.

I guess I could try and ~let it gooooo ~ already because it's old and tired and it's served me well for the last 20 years so maybe it really is ready for a rest but getting rid of things that are salvageable (or even things that aren't) is... really not my strong suit, alas.

Lwanmtr

06-13-2017, 04:13 PM

:yoda: Let go your feelings you must .....or.....
You could always erect a plinth in the back yard and mount it as a display...then you're not just packratting...its art :cool1:

mr_maxime

06-18-2017, 11:32 PM

Ill second the JDM swap. Put a K20 in it.

Nicholas R

06-19-2017, 02:20 PM

This is a lot to bite off if youre not sure what you're doing. Have you ever done any major maintenance on this car? Head gasket? Timing belt? Main seal? Etc. To jump right into an engine rebuild or engine swap is a pretty big leap. Just be sure to plan everything out before starting in, otherwise you can end up with a half finished car without an engine.

DaraSue

06-19-2017, 03:41 PM

Honestly I've never even changed the oil on this car myself. :eek1: Realistically I'd probably be paying somebody else to either overhaul the existing engine or put a crate engine in. I emailed that Osaka JDM place to see if they ever get the gen I motors in.

I'm taking it to a classic car specialist on Wed to see if they think it's as bad as my regular mechanic says. It's not horrifically smoking or anything so it's still driveable. I'm keeping my eyes peeled for another CRX with less than 200K on it just it case (That guy with the two for sale sold the white one and then I never heard back when I tried to go see the red one, bummer). Starting to grudgingly accept that I might have to go to a gen II just because they have more parts availability. Justin from Wells Auto also recommended redpepperracing.com which is more gen I -centric so I'll poke around there and see if anybody has any ideas, too. Knock on wood, the D's been behaving itself lately and it's registered and insured as a daily driver so I can at least drive it to work til the snow starts falling...

Nicholas R

06-19-2017, 05:03 PM

Honestly I've never even changed the oil on this car myself. :eek1:

You should definitely not attempt this.

Find someone to diagnose the issues and quote the cost of repairs, then decide if it's worth it to you.

DaraSue

06-20-2017, 04:31 PM

Yeah, doing it myself isn't really my first choice. I've got quite a bit more money than time, patience or mechanical skills. Not necessarily opposed to spending a bunch to keep the car I want, except that I'd be worried about wrecking it and not being able to get decent reimbursement from the insurance (although I still drive the D, so...)

Found another potential replacement CRX but once again not hearing back from the seller. Do these people want to sell their cars or not? :hmm: Maybe I need to make a bigger point of stating where I live so they don't see my out of state # and think I'm some scammer...

Lwanmtr

06-20-2017, 05:39 PM

Maybe you have to know the secret password before they will get back to you? :8ball:

DaraSue

06-21-2017, 08:51 PM

Maybe you have to know the secret password before they will get back to you? :8ball:

Finally heard back from the guy today but he's selling it to a coworker. There was another one I was considering but it's rusted all to crap, needs brakes and has only driven 500 miles in the last couple years so it would probably defeat the purpose of buying something to drive while my other one's in the shop. :( There's one that actually looks decent, a gen 2 with a newer engine, but it's 2 hours away. Ugh, this is why I hate car shopping.

I took mine in for a 2nd opinion from a classic car specialist today and unfortunately it was as bad or worse than my other mechanic thought. One cylinder wasn't putting out any compression at all and the other three weren't so hot either. On the bright side he thought the transmission noise was just something in the clutch (something... ring? I think it started with a T) so maybe that's still solid. He thought he might have a line on a junkyard engine with less than 40K on it so we'll see what happens.

arrow_runner

06-28-2017, 10:47 AM

DaraSue

07-02-2017, 12:09 PM

I only skimmed through this, but if it's burning oil, have them do a leakdown test. A lot of Hondas burn it through their valve seals which definitely don't cost $5k to replace. If this has already been covered then carry on.

Not sure if they did a leakdown test or not but a compression check showed that one cylinder wasn't making any compression and the other three weren't that great either. Would something like bad valve seals cause that? I've had two places look at it and they both thought it was pretty much done for. :(

It still does run and once it gets going, performance isn't noticeably worse than it has been for years, but it's been taking an average of 3 tries to start.

I gave up and bought an '02 Accord last week, which I'm already regretting. :banghead: I've still got the CRX and I'm on the lookout for a replacement engine, or maybe I'll just get the existing one overhauled, depending how much overtime I get this summer...

Lwanmtr

07-02-2017, 03:32 PM

If you get some stickers and a body kit, maybe some green wheels and the accord wont be so bad...you'd be like them cool street racers 8)

mr_maxime

07-02-2017, 03:47 PM

I gave up and bought an '02 Accord last week, which I'm already regretting. :banghead: I've still got the CRX and I'm on the lookout for a replacement engine, or maybe I'll just get the existing one overhauled, depending how much overtime I get this summer...

If its a four cylinder auto, check the transmission fluid. Thats eventually what killed mine at 195k miles.

DaraSue

07-04-2017, 07:22 PM

If its a four cylinder auto, check the transmission fluid. Thats eventually what killed mine at 195k miles.

I checked it today, the level looked OK, but the color was a little dingy, should I get it replaced?

52354

Lwanmtr

07-05-2017, 05:57 AM

Transmission fluid otta be a nice reddish color...changing it would depend if youre gonna keep the car, I think...how much work you want to put into the beastie..hehe.

DaraSue

07-12-2017, 03:47 PM

Transmission fluid otta be a nice reddish color...changing it would depend if youre gonna keep the car, I think...how much work you want to put into the beastie..hehe.

I called the shop that sold it to me and they thought it had been changed last year, and they didn't think the color was an issue as long as it didn't smell burnt (which I don't remember it doing but I'll check it again tomorrow night after I get home from work.) I'll feel like I got my money's worth out of it if it lasts another three years without any major issues, heh...

On the CRX front, the classic car shop checked and the salvage motor tested good when it was brought in, but that was in 1991. They said there would be a 30 day warranty on the motor and a year on the labor. He said he'd installed about 100 salvage motors over the years and the only one that had gone bad was due to low oil (operator error) but typically they have about a 10-15% failure rate. It would be around $2000-$2500 for the motor, shipping and installation, which is a couple grand less than having the existing one rebuilt. IDK, I'm thinking about just going for it? For the condition the rest of the car is in, it seems like a happy medium.

DaraSue

10-14-2017, 02:19 PM

The saga continues...

I had resigned myself to just doing a real rebuild, but I took the CRX back to the shop b/c it was smoking from the engine compartment when I got home from work the other week. He wasn't able to replicate that issue (he thought it may have been some coolant blowing out of the overflow tube) but he checked the vacuum and pressure again, and it turned out there wasn't actually a dead cylinder, it's just that all 4 of them are only putting out 75 psi. They held pressure and didn't leak. He said he'd never seen anything quite like it in two decades. A couple other car guys I've told this to have suggested replacing the piston rings. So maybe I'll look into that and the valve seals. It needs some clutch work too (the throwout bearing is what he thought was making the noise).

The good news is, I think the cold start issue isn't actually related to this other stuff. I tried adding Heet last time I got gas and it's actually starting on the first or 2nd try now even after sitting so maybe that issue was actually condensation in the fuel lines or something otherwise unrelated to the compression problem. (I used to use Heet in the winter to deal with warm start problems, stopped for a while when I figured out that the warm start issue went away when I stopped pumping the gas on start after the first start of the day.) So if it starts reliably again, I'll probably just keep limping along until there actually is a definable issue that would justify a full rebuild, unless I can either do the piston rings/valve seals myself or get them done for less than $3000.

Lwanmtr

10-14-2017, 04:46 PM

Ive never heard of an engine having the same numbers of low compression on all cylinders...but i guess it's possible..hehe.

opethmike

10-19-2017, 11:37 AM

Ive never heard of an engine having the same numbers of low compression on all cylinders...but i guess it's possible..hehe.

It can happen pretty easily. If the test is done cold, compression will measure much lower. If the throttle isn't held open during testing, compression will measure much lower.

Since all four cylinders read basically the same low number, one of those two conditions is likely.

Replacing piston rings is a hell of a job, and NOT advised for the inexperienced. If something is actually wrong enough with the engine to require rebuild, on a common car like this it is cheaper to just put a replacement used engine in. A rebuild takes a long time, so the labor costs skyrocket pretty quickly.

Taking a quick look at eBay, used motors for your car are not expensive at all.

DaraSue

10-29-2017, 01:50 PM

It can happen pretty easily. If the test is done cold, compression will measure much lower. If the throttle isn't held open during testing, compression will measure much lower.

Since all four cylinders read basically the same low number, one of those two conditions is likely.

Replacing piston rings is a hell of a job, and NOT advised for the inexperienced. If something is actually wrong enough with the engine to require rebuild, on a common car like this it is cheaper to just put a replacement used engine in. A rebuild takes a long time, so the labor costs skyrocket pretty quickly.

Taking a quick look at eBay, used motors for your car are not expensive at all.

There was a used one I was looking at from a salvage yard, but it was still going to be around $2500 to get it shipped and installed and only would have been warrantied for 30 days so I felt like it might be better to just spend the extra to get the existing motor overhauled.

Then again, once it gets started it actually runs OK (or at least not noticeably worse than it has for years) and doesn't visibly smoke or anything, so if I can get it to start reliably in less than 3 tries maybe I'll just keep on truckin' and see if I can make it to 300,000...

Lwanmtr

10-29-2017, 03:57 PM

Guess you wont be needing the Delorean then :hihi2:

DaraSue

10-29-2017, 04:06 PM

Guess you wont be needing the Delorean then :hihi2:

Well, the D does get more attention (and not from hobos and security guards, lol...)

Although every now and then I do still contemplate yanking the CRX's engine out, getting it rebuilt and then finding a D with a trashed engine to put it in, since most of my complaints about the D are how differently it drives than the CRX, and most of my complaints about the CRX are how fragile the body is (and that it needs more than a foot of side clearance to open the doors). But asking an engine that was meant to pull a 1400 lb car to push a 2700 lb one is probably a recipe for disaster, *sigh*...

Lwanmtr

10-29-2017, 04:37 PM

It'd be like 'The Little D that thought it could'.....

dmcnc

10-29-2017, 05:11 PM

DaraSue

10-30-2017, 02:22 PM

I know a guy nearby that swapped his PRV for a CRX engine. I think he's very happy with it, although he'll probably swap his transmission to a Manual in the not too distant future. What gearbox are you running?

I would be interested in hearing more about this... :giddy:

Mine's just the stock 5-speed. The car in general is pretty no-frills (base model, carburated 1.5L engine). It's an 87, which was the first gen and not as popular with hot-rodders so there aren't quite as many options for replacement engines and other parts, either. The idea of having its heart beat again in my dream car appeals to me in a Bride of Re-Animator kind of way, though...

opethmike

10-30-2017, 02:39 PM

It would be a terrible idea to put one of those motors in the DeLorean. It has even less horsepower and torque than the PRV, so the car would be even slower, lol.

DaraSue

10-30-2017, 02:42 PM

Maybe I should just do something like this...

https://www.facebook.com/hondacollectors/photos/a.340832379322534.77407.149266595145781/1689137947825297/?type=3&theater

Lwanmtr

10-30-2017, 04:08 PM

Thats just scary...lol

dmcnc

10-30-2017, 05:36 PM

My apologies - I meant a VW VR6, Engine model: AFP, 2.8L in his Delorean. I thought you were talking about putting a CRX in a Delorean. I'll read more carefully next time :P

I would be interested in hearing more about this... :giddy:

Mine's just the stock 5-speed. The car in general is pretty no-frills (base model, carburated 1.5L engine). It's an 87, which was the first gen and not as popular with hot-rodders so there aren't quite as many options for replacement engines and other parts, either. The idea of having its heart beat again in my dream car appeals to me in a Bride of Re-Animator kind of way, though...

DaraSue

04-01-2018, 12:41 AM

Alex Brooks

04-01-2018, 10:36 AM

The saga continues...

I'm attempting to replace the valve cover gasket, because after some degreasing there appeared to be oil leaking from around it. Has anybody worked on 80s Honda engines and can tell me what I'm looking at? There's what feels like a plastic bit around the rim of the cover, is that the old gasket? If not, the old gasket seems to have just... disappeared? It would explain the leakage. :eek5:

55813

The cover also looks warped in the front by the oil filler. I assume I have to replace the whole thing instead of trying to pound it back into shape with a rubber mallet or something?

I would definitely think you need new Valve Cover. the gasket looks to me like it is melted to the cover? did the car over heat ? to melt like that if it is melted I would think the head or block is warped too. I hope someone with more knowledge than I can chime in.

DaraSue

04-01-2018, 01:19 PM

The good news is, after further investigation the part I thought was plastic and part of the cover turned out to be the old gasket. One of the little knobbly things had come out of the notch in the cover and gotten warped but the actual cover doesn't look as bad as I thought. I might order another one if I can find one just in case I need it later, though.

5581855819

The bad news is, my replacement gasket doesn't have the knobbly things so I need to order another one now. RockAuto got the last one here in a couple of days so hopefully I'll have it by the weekend.

The block doesn't look terrible, at least to my admittedly untrained eye. It's gotten toward the top of the temp gauge a couple of times but never boiled over to the point where I had to do more than replace the head gasket.

dodint

04-03-2018, 07:37 PM

Plan B, if you need one: https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/rare-1991-crx-with-76k/6549744438.html

DaraSue

04-03-2018, 08:14 PM

Plan B, if you need one: https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/rare-1991-crx-with-76k/6549744438.html

Nice one! But mine has sentimental value. :biggrin:

DaraSue

04-06-2018, 03:41 PM

The saga continues... I replaced the gasket, but it's still leaking a little from the same place where the last gasket had come loose and warped. I tried it without any sealant b/c officially it's not supposed to need any and the new one was a little bent out of shape from being in shrink wrap for however long it was at warehouse so I was afraid of gluing down and then having it turn out it wasn't really in place right, but I guess I'll take it all apart in a couple days and try it again with Ultra Black. And if that still doesn't work I'll continue the search for a new valve cover.

Lwanmtr

04-06-2018, 03:44 PM

Duct tape? :giggle:

dn010

04-06-2018, 03:57 PM

If you put the VC cover on a flat surface, you can use a hammer to tap down on the valve cover lip that is warped. Some people use screw drivers to pry up a stuck VC, or a hammer (which could be what happened by the oil filler, hard to tell by the pictures) in order to get them off. Things get damaged when they realize they had forgotten a bolt while prying the thing up. If you are desperate, you can try to coat the gasket and mating surfaces with shellac (you can find it by the RTV in a small brown plastic bottle with white metal cap, Indian Head). It seals well for the most part but may ruin the gasket (upon disassembly) should you need to remove the cover again later down the road.

You can try looking for engines on eBay but shipping can be a killer. Engine rebuild is an option but if you do it yourself there are many errors you can make that will negate all the time and money spent. Tough decisions to make.

DaraSue

04-08-2018, 01:57 PM

The actual valve cover isn't in as bad of shape as I thought - if I set it on the ground the edges look pretty even. But when I took it apart to try and seal it with Permatex I managed to snap one of the bolts that holds the cover onto the engine. :banghead::banghead::banghead: I'm trying to JB Weld the bolt back together and hope it'll stay together long enough to make it to the shop. I'd been planning on taking it in anyway because it was leaking from the seal between the distributor and the cam shaft and I didn't feel super confident about trying to fix that myself, plus it probably needs at least one new cat so I'm crossing my fingers that the actual engine isn't as close to the end of its life as I'd been led to believe. :8ball:

dn010

04-09-2018, 09:17 AM

You will likely get by with a snapped bolt and not have it leak terribly. You should be fine getting it to the shop.

DaraSue

04-10-2018, 11:26 PM

You will likely get by with a snapped bolt and not have it leak terribly. You should be fine getting it to the shop.

It wouldn't have been so bad if I had more than two and the one I broke wasn't the one that the ground wire attaches to. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

My JBWeld repair didn't hold up when I tried to put the nut back on, but fortunately I found a solution: 55933

There was enough of the bolt left to attach the ground wire and castle nut onto the stump of it. I poked holes in pieces of silicone tape and used them as a makeshift washer to keep it from leaking and it actually held up and didn't noticeably leak on the way to the shop. I told them to just go ahead and start taking the engine apart and see if they can figure out why it's only getting 75 psi. It'll probably cost me 10X more than the car is worth, but it's never left me stranded in 22 years, which is more than I can say for any other car I've owned and at least 50% of my immediate family...:headbang: