Replacing steering rack - what is this?

[Redsquall]

I am under the car tonight removing the steering rack and the shaft with you joints on it to replace both of them. I ordered the new rack from PJ Grady without tie rod ends. Am I supposed to unscrew this big bolt from the rack itself or will the new steering rack come with the tie rod arms? Photo...
52046

Also, how do you get the U joint off of the steering rack? Or I have already loosened both U joints but there's no room to pull it either way to get it off.


I also found that this electrical connector has been disconnected from the brake system and looks quite corroded. I have no problems with my brakes and they were just upgraded to DeLorean europes power brake kit by DMCmw. Anyways, it looks like this has not been connected for quite some time. Should I worry about it? What does it do?
Photo
52047

[dn010]

You don't unscrew those "big bolts", they're actually a big nut with a pin driven in them to lock them in place so you'd have a real difficult time removing them. You can either unscrew the actual outer tie rod end (by the wheel) that connects the rack to the steering knuckles or unbolt the tie rod end from the knuckle and press it out. Google tie rod end images if you're unsure what they look like. You should replace the tie rod ends if you are going through the trouble of replacing the rack.

You loosen the u joints, spray them with PB or similar. Wedge a screw driver between the slit in the joints to open them up a bit and then pull the one on the rack up towards the steering wheel.

The electrical connector is for the low brake fluid switch inside the reservoir cap which will trigger the "brake" light if low. If it's unplugged it will not sense if your fluid is low. While you can drive just fine without it, it should be fixed at some point for safety sake.


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[Redsquall]

Excellent. Thank you very much
Is there any certain spray people recommend for clearing corrosion off of connectors like that where it's too difficult to brush them?

[dn010]

You can try a small file, but if you plug it in and unplug it a few times it should clean itself up. To test if it is working, plug it in, unscrew the cap, pull the cap out and either set it in something cap side up and look at the light or pull the cap up and out with an assistant looking at the light to see if it comes on. Key must be on for this.


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[Lwanmtr]

For the steering ujoints something PB Blaster works..just have to be patient while you let it work..hehe.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The U joint bolt connected to the steering wheel has to come out for the U joint to pull off the shaft. Don't remember if the lower joint is the same but I would assume it is. Even a loose bolt still locks the joint from pulling off the shaft.

[Lwanmtr]

As I recall the lower is the same..I had to remove both to get mine off.

[Redsquall]

Thanks Guys. My knowledge is growing and I'll be able to help others soon with stuff like this

[Farrar]

Is there any certain spray people recommend for clearing corrosion off of connectors like that where it's too difficult to brush them?

CRC "Quick Dry" Electronics Cleaning Spray works pretty well for me. Most parts houses stock it.

For very badly corroded terminals you may want to try liquid flux (low-grade acid) on a long, thin paint brush. (Example of a bottle here: http://www.laco.com/soldering-fluxes/n-3-flux-liquid/ )

[Bitsyncmaster]

CRC "Quick Dry" Electronics Cleaning Spray works pretty well for me. Most parts houses stock it.

For very badly corroded terminals you may want to try liquid flux (low-grade acid) on a long, thin paint brush. (Example of a bottle here: http://www.laco.com/soldering-fluxes/n-3-flux-liquid/ )

Flux usually needs heat to become active. There are many types. There is a little activity cold on some which is why you don't leave it on circuit boards.

I've had pretty good results cleaning oxide off connector pins by dipping the whole connector in Tarn-x. Then you dip or flush it with water.

[DMC5180]

Your steering rack from Rob will include everything, except the outer tie-rod end.

My favorite penetrant elixir is
Aero-Kroil .

https://www.amazon.com/Kano-Aerokroil-Penetrating-aerosol-AEROKROIL/dp/B000F09CEA

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[Redsquall]

Cool I'll check out that stuff.

Can I take the steering rack out without taking off the tie rod ends on the wheel? What I'm after is trying to minimize the need for alignment because I just had it done.

[dn010]

You will need an alignment anyway because the new rack may not be exactly the same adjustment as the old. You can take the tie rod ends on and off the knuckle all you want and you won't change anything. It's the amount of threads the tie rod is threaded onto the inner tie rod that changes the alignment. You can try to match the thread count to get it close.


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[Redsquall]

You will need an alignment anyway because the new rack may not be exactly the same adjustment as the old. You can take the tie rod ends on and off the knuckle all you want and you won't change anything. It's the amount of threads the tie rod is threaded onto the inner tie rod that changes the alignment. You can try to match the thread count to get it close.


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That at makes sense. Thanks!

[Lwanmtr]

You can also count the number of turns it takes, should get you close too.

[DMC5180]

Cool I'll check out that stuff.

Can I take the steering rack out without taking off the tie rod ends on the wheel? What I'm after is trying to minimize the need for alignment because I just had it done.

Technically, it can be done. Loosen the small clamp on the Rack boots, then break the Jam nut loose for the outer rod ends. The inner rod shaft may have a couple flat spots for a wrench, if not a small vise grip clamped on the rod works to unscrew the inner rod from the outer rod end.

The standard way is to separate the Outer Rod ends from the steering knuckle and transfer them with the New rack assembly though.


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[Bitsyncmaster]

You will need an alignment anyway because the new rack may not be exactly the same adjustment as the old. You can take the tie rod ends on and off the knuckle all you want and you won't change anything. It's the amount of threads the tie rod is threaded onto the inner tie rod that changes the alignment. You can try to match the thread count to get it close.

Hervey's tie rod ends are also different length then the OEM ends.

[Redsquall]

Thank you guys. So I got the PJ Grady rack on and the Borgeson You joints and steering shaft fabricated in drove six hours the other day. It worked great. I also had an alignment right before I drove. But it turns out I can turn the wheel farther one-way than the other. Jason at DMCMW Says the rack is not centered then. So rather than take it back to the people that didn't really complete the alignment, I'm thinking I should just detach are you joint and turn the wheel about halfway Of the additional amount and that should even it out? Of course at that point my steering wheel itself will be off but I can just adjust the wheel.Do You guys see anything that I'm missing with this plan?

[Nicholas R]

Thank you guys. So I got the PJ Grady rack on and the Borgeson You joints and steering shaft fabricated in drove six hours the other day. It worked great. I also had an alignment right before I drove. But it turns out I can turn the wheel farther one-way than the other. Jason at DMCMW Says the rack is not centered then. So rather than take it back to the people that didn't really complete the alignment, I'm thinking I should just detach are you joint and turn the wheel about halfway Of the additional amount and that should even it out? Of course at that point my steering wheel itself will be off but I can just adjust the wheel.Do You guys see anything that I'm missing with this plan?

Is the problem that the rack is not centered, or the steering wheel is not centered? These are totally different things. What you've described doing wont do anything to center the rack, it will only change the orientation of your steering wheel. If that's your problem, don't go to the trouble of pulling the u-joint apart, just pull the steering wheel off and put it back on centered.

If your problem truly is that your rack is not centered, as in: from the centered position, you can turn the wheel more turns in one direction than you can the other (you can make tighter turns on one side than the other), the adjustment has to be made at the rack. To do this you have to loosen the lock nuts on both tie rods and adjust them equally, without changing your alignment. If you add a turn to one side, you have to take a turn out of the other side. You need to be very precise about it, otherwise you'll be right back in for another alignment. I've done this on my car without issue, but you have to go slow to ensure that whatever length you're taking from one side, you're adding to the other side.

[Redsquall]

Is the problem that the rack is not centered, or the steering wheel is not centered? These are totally different things. What you've described doing wont do anything to center the rack, it will only change the orientation of your steering wheel. If that's your problem, don't go to the trouble of pulling the u-joint apart, just pull the steering wheel off and put it back on centered.

If your problem truly is that your rack is not centered, as in: from the centered position, you can turn the wheel more turns in one direction than you can the other (you can make tighter turns on one side than the other), the adjustment has to be made at the rack. To do this you have to loosen the lock nuts on both tie rods and adjust them equally, without changing your alignment. If you add a turn to one side, you have to take a turn out of the other side. You need to be very precise about it, otherwise you'll be right back in for another alignment. I've done this on my car without issue, but you have to go slow to ensure that whatever length you're taking from one side, you're adding to the other side.

Yes, it's the rack is not centered issue. Ok, how precise - like within one turn? I can do that. Then, just recenter the steering wheel after that?
Thanks!

[Nicholas R]

Yes, it's the rack is not centered issue. Ok, how precise - like within one turn? I can do that. Then, just recenter the steering wheel after that?
Thanks!

I would shoot for dead on; it doesn't take much to throw off your alignment. If you take a turn out of one side, you need to add a turn to the other (no more no less). Mark your tie rods so that you have indicators of how far they've been turned. I think i did it in increments of 1/2 turns. Each time you make the adjustment, snug the jam nuts back up, get inside the car, and see how many turns you get in each direction. At the end, just pop the steering wheel off, center it, and put bolt it back on. Good luck!

[Redsquall]

I would shoot for dead on; it doesn't take much to throw off your alignment. If you take a turn out of one side, you need to add a turn to the other (no more no less). Mark your tie rods so that you have indicators of how far they've been turned. I think i did it in increments of 1/2 turns. Each time you make the adjustment, snug the jam nuts back up, get inside the car, and see how many turns you get in each direction. At the end, just pop the steering wheel off, center it, and put bolt it back on. Good luck!

The only thing that confuses me here is You said "i did it in increments of 1/2 turns" - Are you talking about the steering wheel at that point? Because when you turn a tie rod end around you have to turn it 360 degrees of course. What am I missing here? Thanks!

[Bitsyncmaster]

The only thing that confuses me here is You said "i did it in increments of 1/2 turns" - Are you talking about the steering wheel at that point? Because when you turn a tie rod end around you have to turn it 360 degrees of course. What am I missing here? Thanks!

The rod will rotate. You don't need to remove the tie rod end.

[Redsquall]

The rod will rotate. You don't need to remove the tie rod end.

OK Thanks Guys!

[DMC5180]

The rod will rotate. You don't need to remove the tie rod end.

Just be sure to loosen the the small outer boot clamp so the rod turns inside it.


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[Bitsyncmaster]

Just be sure to loosen the the small outer boot clamp so the rod turns inside it.

Good point. I assume people would think of that themselves but it's good to suggest it.

You also need to back off the lock nut locking the tie rod end to the shaft.

[Nicholas R]

The only thing that confuses me here is You said "i did it in increments of 1/2 turns" - Are you talking about the steering wheel at that point? Because when you turn a tie rod end around you have to turn it 360 degrees of course. What am I missing here? Thanks!

As Dave said, you are not turning the rod end, you are turning the rod. You do not need to break the rod end loose from the knuckle for this. All you have to do is loosen the jam nut (and the boot clamp) and rotate the rod in order to increase or decrease the length.

Don't worry about the steering wheel. The column and wheel have nothing to do with the alignment or the rack. Once the rack is set up properly and aligned, pull the wheel off and center it and you're good to go.

[Redsquall]

I would shoot for dead on; it doesn't take much to throw off your alignment. If you take a turn out of one side, you need to add a turn to the other (no more no less). Mark your tie rods so that you have indicators of how far they've been turned. I think i did it in increments of 1/2 turns. Each time you make the adjustment, snug the jam nuts back up, get inside the car, and see how many turns you get in each direction. At the end, just pop the steering wheel off, center it, and put bolt it back on. Good luck!

i'm finally going to get around to doing this. Right now my steering wheel is about exactly 180° off from one turned of the other period. About how many rotations on the tire rod do you think that would be? Thanks

[dn010]

I think you're looking at trial and error here.


i'm finally going to get around to doing this. Right now my steering wheel is about exactly 180° off from one turned of the other period. About how many rotations on the tire rod do you think that would be? Thanks

[Redsquall]

I think you're looking at trial and error here.

So I'm doing this right now. I have marked my tie rods and I rotated them completely equally in opposite directions to rotations. What is weird is that my steering wheel has not seem to change at all meaning when I rotated I still have exactly the same number of rotations that I had before. One side is off from the other in the exact same way it was before I rotated the tie rod ends. What am I doing wrong? I would expect at the steering wheel would now be off-center after visually lining up the wheel straight

[dn010]

Just so I understand the problem: with your wheels pointing straight ahead, your left hand turn until lock is a different steering wheel turns than when the wheels are straight and you turn right until you hit lock?

Or is the problem that your wheels are straight and your steering wheel isn't "straight"?

[Redsquall]

As Dave said, you are not turning the rod end, you are turning the rod. You do not need to break the rod end loose from the knuckle for this. All you have to do is loosen the jam nut (and the boot clamp) and rotate the rod in order to increase or decrease the length.

Don't worry about the steering wheel. The column and wheel have nothing to do with the alignment or the rack. Once the rack is set up properly and aligned, pull the wheel off and center it and you're good to go.

Nick, what do you think about my last comment today? I turned them in opposite directions 2 full rotations but the steering wheel doesn't seem to have changed at all
And as long as I've turned them exactly opposite each other the same amount – my alignment should still be good right?

[Redsquall]

Just so I understand the problem: with your wheels pointing straight ahead, your left hand turn until lock is a different steering wheel turns than when the wheels are straight and you turn right until you hit lock?

Or is the problem that your wheels are straight and your steering wheel isn't "straight"?

Yes, the problem is that when I turn The steering wheel to the right I get a little bit more than one turn – like an inch. And when I turn to the left I get 1.25 turns

[dn010]

It may take more than two full turns, try to go more. If you look at how much distance you move with two turns, it isn't much. When you're turning them, you should see the wheel actually moving inwards or outwards and when you do the other side in the opposite direction, it should move the same way as the other wheel did. As long as you keep the numbers the same, your alignment will not be off and you can go back if necessary.

[Redsquall]

It may take more than two full turns, try to go more. If you look at how much distance you move with two turns, it isn't much. When you're turning them, you should see the wheel actually moving inwards or outwards and when you do the other side in the opposite direction, it should move the same way as the other wheel did. As long as you keep the numbers the same, your alignment will not be off and you can go back if necessary.

So I just did another full turn of the tie rod doing each tire rod in opposite turns from each other and the steering wheel sew seam has not moved at all - I was expecting the steering wheel to turn in at least a little bit. Background info: I put in a new PJ Grady rack recently and had it aligned in the past couple months. The problem was that I did not send her the rack before getting it aligned

[dn010]

And when you're turning the rods, one side should be gaining threads and the other should be losing, correct? And once you've done this, you've pointed the wheels straight ahead by hand? Try going something like 5 turns, as long as you have threads left on the tie rod.

[Redsquall]

And when you're turning the rods, one side should be gaining threads and the other should be losing, correct? And once you've done this, you've pointed the wheels straight ahead by hand? Try going something like 5 turns, as long as you have threads left on the tie rod.


Here's a short video showing exactly what I am doing. At this point I have rotated them in opposite directions for four complete rotations and the steering wheel does not seem to have moved. When I snug the bolts up I only have three visible threads on one side and about eight on the other currently. If the steering wheel is not supposed to rotate as you rotate the tires – how do I know when I've got the rack centered?

https://youtu.be/3em-I1taDd4

[dn010]

What you're doing by rotating the tie rods, is moving the front wheels either left, or right. The steering wheel doesn't move. So, if you turn the rods so many turns that you move the tires so they're now pointing 1/2 to the left (it seems you've done so judging by the threads in your video), once you're done turning the rods you have to physically push the front of the tire to make them as straight as you can by looking down the side of the car. This will then make your steering wheel seam off center. It is from this point that you turn the wheel lock to lock in order to see what progress you're making, returning the seam to it's now off center orientation making the wheels straight.

At the end, once you've got the turns equal from lock to lock, you'll pull the off center steering wheel off and re-center just the steering wheel.

[dn010]

Best I can do to describe this while at work. LOL!
52856

Once the steering wheel is off center, it helps to put a piece of masking tape on the top of the wheel where the seam would be if it was center, making it easier to count the lock to lock turns.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Best I can do to describe this while at work. LOL!
52856

Once the steering wheel is off center, it helps to put a piece of masking tape on the top of the wheel where the seam would be if it was center, making it easier to count the lock to lock turns.

Use a wire tie. Tape can pull some color off the wheel. Ask me how I know.:bigcry:

[Redsquall]

OK, I think I found out what I was doing wrong. I understood rotating tirades opposite from each other as rotating the driver side clockwise when you're looking at the inside of the wheel in the passenger side clockwise when you're looking at the inside of the wheel – what I was doing was screwing them both in tighter and exaggerating the tow. So I took the passenger side and rotate it did it twice as many times in the other direction which truly evened it out and adjusted the steering wheel position.

I'm going to put it down and drive around the block and see how it feels before I reposition the steering wheel. But check out the pictures below. This is how many threads I have visible on each side – I just want to make sure that looks normal because there are a lot of thread showing on the passenger side I want to make sure there's enough threads actually going into the tie rod end to hold it solid
thanks very much!

[David T]

From your posts it is clear you don't know what you are doing. Get the car to an alignment shop. Even if you get it to go straight and the wheel is pointing straight ahead and you have equal turns left and right, you lost the proper toe adjustment and that is important for tire wear and drive ability.

[DMC5180]

From your posts it is clear you don't know what you are doing. Get the car to an alignment shop. Even if you get it to go straight and the wheel is pointing straight ahead and you have equal turns left and right, you lost the proper toe adjustment and that is important for tire wear and drive ability.

+1

Take it to a shop, it's the only way you will know the Alignment is correct. Explain to the Service Tech that you want the rack centered (equal threads exposed on the inner tie-rods). once that is done, you can do one of Two things. Pull the lower U-joint off the Rack and re-install with the wheel straight or Pull Steering Wheel and reposition it. You are dealing with Splines on either end so it won't likely be perfect. If want perfection, you will need to likely have the do a final alignment adjustment with the Wheel held perfectly Centered. Go for drive and hopefully it yields the result you desire.

Off center steering wheels when driving straight is one of biggest pet peeves.

[David T]

An alignment shop with one of the newer laser-guided and automated databases have it down to a science. Once everything is centered and adjusted they can remove the steering wheel if necessary and center that. If it is still off they will recenter the rack and/or adjust the tie rod ends. Before going to the shop you should remove the trailing arm shields, take out all of the extra "junk" that adds weight, and have 1/2 tank of fuel. You should also have some extra shims for the TAB's. Check the tires and if they look bad or are over 7 years old they should be replaced. Make sure they all have the correct pressure as per the label on the back of the glove box door. Bring the specs too just in case. If their machine doesn't have the specs they can add them to the database manually. Do a visual to make sure nothing is bent, missing, broken or worn. They can't do a proper alignment if the suspension and steering is not in good shape. A Delorean, in good shape and all lined up, should drive very responsively, no looseness, play, or vibration. It should track straight ahead on a smooth road with no crown. You will probably age out of your tires before you wear them out. If your car was lowered there are additional things that should be done.

[Redsquall]

An alignment shop with one of the newer laser-guided and automated databases have it down to a science. Once everything is centered and adjusted they can remove the steering wheel if necessary and center that. If it is still off they will recenter the rack and/or adjust the tie rod ends. Before going to the shop you should remove the trailing arm shields, take out all of the extra "junk" that adds weight, and have 1/2 tank of fuel. You should also have some extra shims for the TAB's. Check the tires and if they look bad or are over 7 years old they should be replaced. Make sure they all have the correct pressure as per the label on the back of the glove box door. Bring the specs too just in case. If their machine doesn't have the specs they can add them to the database manually. Do a visual to make sure nothing is bent, missing, broken or worn. They can't do a proper alignment if the suspension and steering is not in good shape. A Delorean, in good shape and all lined up, should drive very responsively, no looseness, play, or vibration. It should track straight ahead on a smooth road with no crown. You will probably age out of your tires before you wear them out. If your car was lowered there are additional things that should be done.

David, Yes, the car has been eibach'd. What additional things are you referring too?
Thanks

[David T]

David, Yes, the car has been eibach'd. What additional things are you referring too?
Thanks

If the car has been lowered you must reset the front Toe and you must get the lower adjustable links for the rear suspension so you can adjust Camber on the rear wheels. You should also check Camber on the front but that is not easily adjustable. Lowering the car reduces the suspension travel. If you hit any bumps hard you will bend and break suspension parts. You also risk getting caught on anything in the road like a raised manhole. if you have ground effects you can rip them off very easily, even just getting onto and off of a lift. Make sure all of the bump stops are there and in good condition.

[Redsquall]

DMC midwest did the whole Eibach setup and aligned it. I replaced steering rack. Midwest said at that point only needed front toe in between 0 and 0.25. Had place align it. But rack wasn't totally centered so I rotated the tie rods. Now turning wheel from center is even both directions. Steering wheel was then removed and recentered. Toe in is now 0.25. Drives straight. New aluminum control arms. All seems good. Tires new. Only thing I wonder about is one tie rod is showing about 10 threads beyond the tighten nut and the other side is about 6. Is there enough threads threaded in to the tie rod end if 10 show after the nut? Thanks guys

[DMC5180]

Yes, Inner Tie-rods typically have about 2" of threads. you're Good.

[David T]

The short answer is yes BUT. We are assuming both tie rod ends are the same length. Not necessarily true if one or both were replaced. It is also a sign that the steering rack may not be centered. Make sure you have the same number of turns on the steering wheel from the center to the left and the right. If DMC MidWest did the work, chances are everything is fine. Pay attention to how the car tracks and how the tires wear.

[dn010]

It is also a sign that the steering rack may not be centered. Make sure you have the same number of turns on the steering wheel from the center to the left and the right.


???

This is what he has been working on for the past few months at least, read back to the June posts...