Supercar Megabuild - Delorean reborn link

[iflights]

Stephen in Ireland. Must see TV.

https://youtu.be/ZbjbdlOp034

[DMC-81]

Wow, nice concepts on the new prototype! I personally wouldn't opt for a wrapped exterior, but I can visualize the fresh fascias against the original brushed stainless, which I'm guessing will be a popular option in production. I anticipate the updated engine, wheels, fascias, electrics, interior etc. will make a desirable offering for the new DeLorean.

I also think that it's sufficiently different to minimize confusion with our originals.

Thanks for sharing. :thumbup:

[opethmike]

I will eat my shoe if a new car ever actually gets produced.

[Riley88]

wtb that front and rear fascia...anddddd thats about it. I like our interiors they way they are tbh

[Lwanmtr]

I like the front mostly...the back is ok, but just something off to me about it...the interior I think needed a bit more developing....the wrap..nope..

[SamHill]

I like the headlights. That's really all. The rest of the car needs geometry changes and moderization, not aesthetics.

[Dangermouse]

Well, if this is a focus clinic:

Like the front fascia.

Hate the rear fascia except for the way the exhausts are integrated. The white DMC will make no sense when license plates are put on.

Don't care for the new ipad gauge look. The binnacle isn't bad, just the graphics on the screen. Center console elbow pads look good. The old 1978 Renault 20 auto-box gear selector looks really out of place in this "modernized" interior.

Absolutely detest the "mood lighting" strips at the occupants neck level.


And the TV show was just the worst type of "reality" garbage where there is a faux deadline and faux manufactured drama.

[DMCVegas]

Design, like art, is very subjective to individual tastes. So it is pointless arguing anything of the sort, because who is correct?

I am, however, rather saddened by this video and the image of the upcoming car it projects.

While the DMC-12 itself went from concept to production in record time, it has had the juxtaposed benefit of over 35+ years of community support to improve the car. That to me has always been the cornerstone of any revival of the marque. While the cars we drive did originate off the Dunmurry assembly line, the reliability has actually improved significantly over the years with the expansion of support from owner and vendor alike. They are very much the same cars then as they are now, but also in many ways are not, due to the improved experience that current owners have in contrast with the original ones. Things such as superseded parts, and the piece of mind of having a proven support network for instance have created a very different ownership experience than that which was first realized during the initial production run, and subsequent orphaning.

To throw all of that away with a reality show really damages the image of the new car coming out. Sure, I know that it's television, and it's not real (I have my doubts that the CNC'd engineering designs used were drafted from scratch on CAD, and were not simply the same existing ones used for the replica fiberglass facias, modified weeks/months in advance). But that right there is the problem. A press release stating how you're contracting with known industry engineering firms for things such as drivetrain components is good. That builds consumer confidence in the product to reassure everyone that the product is being designed with care. But to have two guys goofing around creating fake drama about how they're constantly behind schedule doesn't build that confidence. Never mind the fact that the interior is non-functional (look closely and you'll see that the tablet just sits over the 100%-stock center stack), but it blatantly comes across as a rushed, unfinished product. An integral part of the car being the result of fake comic buffoonery & drama? That just cheapens it.

If they got careless with the designs and just rushed them, what else was rushed? I'm not saying that is the case at all, but it is the message that seems to come across. As much as this show acts as a marketing tool as it spreads awareness, it seems like it also necessities some potential damage control efforts.

[SamHill]

It did come across as very contrived. You'd have to be naive not to see that. These reality shows are running a model that was innovative in 2000, but nobody anymore is really fooled by these scenes that are obviously fake as a three dollar bill. The shame is that the concept of the show is good: maybe a wealthy man wants to drive a classic car, but wants it to ride and handle like a modern car, so they go to work. Then after I saw the actual show, the only thing I was left with is that I don't want to watch any further episodes because it's to edifying entertainment what Frosted Flakes are to a real breakfast.

A modern Delorean doesn't need restyling, gizmos and interior mood lighting. It needs reliability and a frame and underbody that can accomodate a more powerful engine pushed inboard and down.

[Dangermouse]

Design, like art, is very subjective to individual tastes. So it is pointless arguing anything of the sort, because who is correct?
.

The person with the checkbook.

There is a difference between "is it good design" and "I would buy that design".

[Jonathan]

A modern Delorean doesn't need restyling, gizmos and interior mood lighting. It needs reliability and a frame and underbody that can accomodate a more powerful engine pushed inboard and down.

I agree with this. But our "flashy, attention seeking, anything but subtle" society won't. A rock solid frame underneath that nobody sees, wiring updates or anything else "hidden" doesn't make for good TV. It's not click-bait-ish enough. In the "broadcast yourself" era, it needs to scream different, powerful, unique, whatever. I like the cars just the way they are (with those subtle reliability upgrades we all know). And thankfully the car will stay just the way they are because this most recent proposed incarnation ain't getting made. No chance. And I'll eat the sock that comes with Mike's shoe if it does.

[Farrar]

I thought "Supercar" meant a vehicle with a powerful drivetrain, so I was expecting to see an upgraded engine/trans. combo. instead of a quick re-skin. TBH, though, I expected disaster as soon as they said "let's make this iconic car look more modern." (Translation in my head: "Let's take this classic car, destroy what makes it classic, and make it look more trendy.") That's when I turned the sound off and just fast-forwarded to the finished product.

I like the lower engine cover (a feature that was in the original design anyway, but never made it into production). Integrated tailpipes are very "now," but I'm not sure how long they'll last. I've seen quite a few modern cars with nasty stains on the rear because the tailpipes don't stick out.

Looks like they did a good job of building onto the existing fascias, though I imagine just like "reality TV" house remodels, they're meant to look good on camera during the shoot and long-term use doesn't enter into consideration.

Controlling everything from a touch screen? No thanks. I like not having to take my eyes off of the road to adjust the HVAC, lights, and radio.

In my opinion, our cars' problem that they aren't as fast as they look. You fix that by changing the power-to-weight ratio, not by throwing a few grand's worth of vinyl, fiberglass, and LEDs at it.

But in the end, the show is more publicity for DMC-Houston, and I'm OK with that.

[papanoel]

I thought "Supercar" meant a vehicle with a powerful drivetrain, so I was expecting to see an upgraded engine/trans. combo. instead of a quick re-skin. TBH, though, I expected disaster as soon as they said "let's make this iconic car look more modern." (Translation in my head: "Let's take this classic car, destroy what makes it classic, and make it look more trendy.") That's when I turned the sound off and just fast-forwarded to the finished product.

I like the lower engine cover (a feature that was in the original design anyway, but never made it into production). Integrated tailpipes are very "now," but I'm not sure how long they'll last. I've seen quite a few modern cars with nasty stains on the rear because the tailpipes don't stick out.

Looks like they did a good job of building onto the existing fascias, though I imagine just like "reality TV" house remodels, they're meant to look good on camera during the shoot and long-term use doesn't enter into consideration.

Controlling everything from a touch screen? No thanks. I like not having to take my eyes off of the road to adjust the HVAC, lights, and radio.

In my opinion, our cars' problem that they aren't as fast as they look. You fix that by changing the power-to-weight ratio, not by throwing a few grand's worth of vinyl, fiberglass, and LEDs at it.

But in the end, the show is more publicity for DMC-Houston, and I'm OK with that.

I agree mechanical changes would be more interesting but the goal of this faux challenge was all aesthetics. Would be nice to know where DMCH in development on this.... so much for those monthly updates.

[opethmike]

And I'll eat the sock that comes with Mike's shoe if it does.

How anybody that knows Houston's track record could believe that a new car will get made is not comprehensible to my mind.

[Nicholas R]

I do like the look of the front and rear fascias. The front headlights are pretty agressive and I might opt for something a little more subtle, but in general I love it. The front of the DeLorean is my least favorite part of the car. It's by far the most 80s part of the car (not in a good way), so blocky and dated. I love the look of the DeLorean from every single angle except head on. From that angle I think its ugly as can be. The new front fascia would be a welcomed change.
http://www.jenx67.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Delorean-1.png
Yuck

That said, if this did actually get produced, do you think DMCH would sell them to existing owners, or reserve the look for their "new" cars?

[Lwanmtr]

I would think that 'IF' the 'updated' body panels went into production and DMCH offered them to existing owners, they'd be sooper pricey...

That front fascia would need to be redesigned to get rid of the slots (which should be part of the rear)...

Perhaps when I get some time, I'll do a mock up of how I'd design the thing (yaay for being a 3d modeler)....hehe.

[David T]

Many of the car reality shows often feature a Delorean. It draws and ratings is what it is all about. For Steve Wynn it is all about the pre-production publicity. It is obvious what they would redesign. Because DMC has all of the panels, they are not going to redesign and make new ones. They may paint them, wrap them, or otherwise do some kind of treatment to them to distinguish the new batch from the original batch. What is left is the interior. It could use an "updating" especially if you want to incorporate all of the new electronics that is available. That means a new console and dash at the very least. Redoing the facias is also a no-brainer, it won't cost all that much and I don't think they have enough old ones anyway. I would not expect a "supercar" drivetrain. That can raise the cost too much. It will probably out perform the original but it won't be a Lambo. Choices are limited because it has to be rear wheel drive. Expect all of the systems to be updated, more reliable and more modern, learning from the years of experience and service of the originals. One thing they may not get (especially in the beginning) is build quality. As we know it is an elusive thing that takes a lot of experience to obtain. In the 2 + years of production DMC never did really get it. As we heard from the people who worked in the QAC centers, the cars got better but every car needed work! As reality shows go it was OK except for the "ticking clock". I wonder just how long it really did take? I would not expect the production cars to look like the prototype. As we also saw, once you start trying to source the production parts and factor in costs, quantities, and lead-times, things start to get cheaper and cheaper. One reason the interior of our cars is mostly vinyl. At some point, if the new build cars don't sell well, DMC will probably offer a kit to "upgrade" the original cars.

[papanoel]

The rear wasn't bad looking as a concept. But I'd like to see the practical version of it. It was clearly not finished or functioning.

[Nicholas R]

The rear wasn't bad looking as a concept. But I'd like to see the practical version of it. It was clearly not finished or functioning.

I noticed that too. Those were clearly just red and yellow pieces of plastic; not actual lenses. Rear fascia was likely still solid foam.

[Lwanmtr]

And yup...once you put a license plate in there that cute dmc layout is broken

[DMCVegas]

There is a difference between "is it good design" and "I would buy that design".

Very true. As a "prototype" design, those rarely ever make it into production. It's always a eclectic demonstration of design cues from which you see what people respond to, and what they do not. Along with what is feasible and what isn't, and you just distill everything down. So aside the aesthetics aspect of things, it's why I'm not that judgmental about the car here in terms of how it looks. For me, it's the fake "reality show" thing that kills it for me. Speaking of which....



It did come across as very contrived. You'd have to be naive not to see that. These reality shows are running a model that was innovative in 2000, but nobody anymore is really fooled by these scenes that are obviously fake as a three dollar bill. The shame is that the concept of the show is good: maybe a wealthy man wants to drive a classic car, but wants it to ride and handle like a modern car, so they go to work. Then after I saw the actual show, the only thing I was left with is that I don't want to watch any further episodes because it's to edifying entertainment what Frosted Flakes are to a real breakfast.

A modern Delorean doesn't need restyling, gizmos and interior mood lighting. It needs reliability and a frame and underbody that can accommodate a more powerful engine pushed inboard and down.

We haven't always seen eye-to-eye on many subjects, but were' in total agreement here. For myself, there is a huge difference between an educational "how-to" show, and "reality TV". The biggest example of this hit me one day watching an episode of "This Old House" on PBS. Owners are remodeling an entire kitchen, and to start things they call in a demolition crew. A team of people come in, and carefully remove all of the appliances, sink, and unbolt the cabinetry from the walls. Everything is stacked up outside, and they explain that the reason for this is not only to spend less time on a cleanup, but because they can sell the removed items to other renovators doing budget remodels of older homes. Compare that to any other "reality" show about house-flipping where some foppish goober prances around with a sledge hammer he can barely lift, and just starts randomly knocking holes in everything.

That is what kills me about this. If this had been presented as a potential prototype by itself, I would have been very impressed. They could say that a touchscreen was a potential mock-up, and the lack of functionality could have been presented as a concept. Which is perfectly fine. But when you have, and I would say outright lies presented by the show here, that takes away from the integrity of the entire low volume production project. "Wiring into the electrics" means nothing more than they plugged an iPad into the cigarette charger. It doesn't mean that the environmental controls were actually computerized in any way. The same with the doors with how they were presented. While I am encouraging and congratulatory when someone completes a DIY installation of a Wings-a-loft kit to pop their doors open, I feel it is in very poor taste to misrepresent that as some sort of fully automated door kit with a comparison to Tesla's Falcon Doors. Purposefully misleading people by showing the full operating range of the Tesla design, and then oh-so-conveniently cutting away so as to refuse to show the DeLorean doors closing by themselves. Hint: it's because they cannot. Even worse when you start taking credit for a kit which you did not design. As though door poppers never existed on DeLoreans before this show.

Most of all, yes, as much as even I am an ardent supporter of the PRV & K-Jetronic, I do recognize we must keep all available options open to improve upon the car. The mechanical engineering needs to be improved. Aside from better suspension, we need a better drivetrain in order to improve the reliability, serviceability, and performance of the car to keep them on the road. Aesthetics are great, but the engineering & performance needs to improve where it can. Speaking of which...



I thought "Supercar" meant a vehicle with a powerful drivetrain, so I was expecting to see an upgraded engine/trans. combo. instead of a quick re-skin. TBH, though, I expected disaster as soon as they said "let's make this iconic car look more modern." (Translation in my head: "Let's take this classic car, destroy what makes it classic, and make it look more trendy.") That's when I turned the sound off and just fast-forwarded to the finished product.


I would not expect a "supercar" drivetrain. That can raise the cost too much. It will probably out perform the original but it won't be a Lambo. Choices are limited because it has to be rear wheel drive.

A "supercar", like design cues, is still an arbitrary, if not abstract concept that is dependent upon what comparisons we hold it to. I mean, the Venturi Atlantique a very similar drivetrain as ours with an updated PRV engine & Renault UNx transaxle. Just shy of 300 bhp, it was able to squeeze out 0-60 times of 4.9 seconds, and is considered a French "supercar".

Yes, we absolutely need an improved drivetrain, and apparently that is a goal for DMCH to make available whatever they put into this new vehicle become available as a kit for our own legacy cars. While I personally applaud them for that, who knows what metrics the public will consider as a proper upgrade worthy of the car. But no matter what upgrades occur for the drivetrain, appearance packages, or whatever, the image of the car should be one of careful refinement and strategized engineering. Not something which was haphazardly rushed and carelessly slapped together in a gameshow atmosphere on "reality tv". I'm not saying that it was, because I don't believe a single thing I've seen on this show episode. But the image of yet another vehicle being rushed into production is what is being conveyed here, and one that we don't need.

I don't blame DMCH entirely 100% for this, because obviously they did not edit the show themselves. But they did get involved for this cheap publicity. This just feels like the biggest mistake since refusing the car to have a cameo in Grant Theft Auto: Vice City.

[Lwanmtr]

Indeed the show was too 'dramatic'...no substance, really. At least on shows like Bitchin' Rides you get to see more of the actual process (though still a fair amount of sillyness)..But this is what networks think people want to see...i mean, look at the changes being made to Wheeler Dealers (less of the actual process and more of just the flash). After all, who wants to actually see the work that goes into restoring a frame...lol

I did notice the use of the Wings Aloft and found that to be in poor taste to not even acknowledge it, even in credits.

I'd prolly never have see this one if not posted here, cause as a rule I dont watch this kind...and I'll prolly not watch another episode of that show...lol

[rickjames8]

This was a great video to watch as I always thought one of the first things I'd try to do once I got my DeLorean was to update the front and rear fascias. I figured I'd remove the old ones, make a mold, then make a fiberglass one to modify while retaining the originals for resale. In the end, the original look has grown on me, and the amount of time I calculated would go in to such a project didn't seem worth it anymore. Now that I've seen the result, I can say I'm even happier that I didn't invest the time. I can't say I think it looks all that much better. It looks like a car from the early 80s with new lights. I think 90% of the effect could be achieved by using modern 4x6 lights.

I've also wondered if it'd be possible to upgrade the grill with this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/M/311761767893 for a more modern look. Anyone have an A4 they can measure?

-Rick

[GCMW Deloreans]

I wonder if that proto type car is going to be for sale. I could put it next to Proto 1 in my Delorean showroom.

[MikeWard]

The front and rear bumpers/fascias have been destroyed (http://www.deloreaneurotec.uk/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5606&start=20#p74393). The car has had it's oem/stock front and rear bumpers refitted, and they have been vinyl wrapped to match the rest of the bodywork.

As I understand it, the modern dash instrumentation and centre console was just a mock-up for show, it didn't actually work / control any functions on the car.

[Chris4099]

And yup...once you put a license plate in there that cute dmc layout is broken

I thought of this right away. Pretty much every country in the world requires a rear license plate which would cover the M. So all these new DeLoreans will say DC on the back! :rolleyes: Hopefully they ditch that part of the design.

[David T]

Because it is a prototype that is just another change you can expect. I thought it was cute too but also realized some accommodation will have to be made for the rear plate. Same problem in the front. Many jurisdictions still require a front plate. Especially now with plate readers at toll booths.

[DrJeff]

So what are the engineering/parts design parameters of the 'new' DeLorean.

Overall Engineering Design Guidance
- Keep stainless panels, doors (which also means keeping windscreen)
- New parts for anything vinyl, rubber, foam, compressed board, plywood
- No DMC logo changes
- Keep updates to modern driver expectations (don't update parts just because better is now available)
- No safety updates unless required for road worthy approval (e.g. no airbags)
- Accommodate new engine/transmission with minimal frame changes (if any)

Included unchanged
- stainless body panels
- doors

Unchanged or Slightly Modified
- fiberglass body (small changes consistent with existing body panels)
- sub-frame (changes to accommodate alternative motors and transmissions)
- door box and torsion bars
- airbox
- ac system

Modest Updates
- Front Fascia
- Rear Fascia
- Brakes
- Front suspension (pseudo-wishbone adaptions)
- ac panel and headlamp switches
- window & defroster switches

Unlikely Updated
- Front suspension (full wishbone design)

Very Likely Replaced
- Engine wiring harness and ECUs (and harnesses that it interfaces into)
- Engine
- Transmission
- ac compressor
- alternator
- radio and sound system

Very Likely Redesign
- side passenger cabin windows
- front fascia
- headlamps
- rear fascia
- tail lights

So the show (as painful as a neck tattoo to watch) was on the money. Apart from the vinyl wrap, they modified the fascias and related parts, and updated the cabin. They probably missed the mark on the cabin in that (IMHO) they went "modern" where "modern retro" was probably a better fit for the exterior.

LED mood lighting - what?

Steve's reaction... probably not all that different from everyone else's when they will see the new DeLorean...

Jeff

[DMCVegas]

Other than what has been pieced together for the underbody & a new drivetrain option, I'm pretty sure that no other options have been confirmed per se. Certainly the past experiments with interiors and GPS items have been good indicators of possibilities though.

The one thing that is for certain is that there is a fine line DMCH does have to walk here. They have to ensure major redesigns for either engineering or aesthetics don't violate the conditions of the law under which these vehicles can be produced. Potentially from a liability standpoint by using DMC's original engineering designs which they are not responsible for, but more so thanks to this little inclusion of Section 5:

The Secretary shall have the authority to revoke an existing registration based on a failure to comply with requirements set forth in this subsection or a finding by the Secretary of a safety-related defect or unlawful conduct under this chapter that poses a significant safety risk. The registrant shall be provided a reasonable opportunity to correct all deficiencies, if such are correctable based on the sole discretion of the Secretary.

Section 7 has a subsection which then goes on to define a "Replica Motor Vehicle" as:

is intended to resemble the body of another motor vehicle that was manufactured not less than 25 years before the manufacture of the replica motor vehicle

That is a tricky subject there. Because how far can you take the modifications of external design cues of a particular vehicle model before it ceases to resemble what it actually is? Not the platform, but the specific model itself? Forget that you know the vehicle is a DeLorean, but remember what a DeLorean looks like. Does the car from this video still look like a DeLorean enough that you would instantly recognize it? If not, that could be grounds for loosing the entire exemption.

[Lwanmtr]

Does the car from this video still look like a DeLorean enough that you would instantly recognize it? If not, that could be grounds for loosing the entire exemption.

Thats a big one right there. If they have to be considered replicas, then I think those mods would kill it, because its no longer using the original factory setup....Would it be recognised right away as a Delorean? I think it would after a moment of looking, but it would look like a customized car.

One thing I will say about it...even with the bits that I didnt like, it still looked 1000 times better than that hideous gawdawful thing that Will I Am had done to his..

[Bob635]

Updating the D exterior design is very difficult. The D was designed at a time when the "square look" was in. (rather than the curved aerodynamic look of most cars today.)

What this means is that the D was/is not aerodynamic as cars are today. Ironically, the "squared off" from end of the cars from the late 70s and 80s was based on an error in fuel economy measurements.

GM was doing a fuel economy test on their cars early 70s (24hrs per day, for months around a track). The cars would get dirty from bugs, so one of the drivers decided to put a bug deflector on the front end and surprise! It got BETTER fuel economy than the other test vehicles. (this was repeated and verified.)

So the "squared off" front end because a design criteria for a few years, until better testing was done.

So we are dealing with updating a car, while maintaining the "square" look. What the design team did was very good. It does look more modern, but there is no improvement in aerodynamics. This would only occur with a rounded edge on the front fascia. or a more protruding front bumper to allow for a longer radiused front end. You can see this design concept on early 80s sport cars.

OR

How about a Dodge "super bird" option? definitely improved aerodynamics and coolness!

Can someone do this up in photoshop? It would, at least be fun to see!

[David T]

That whole reg is very subjective and there can be a lot of interpretation. Because the basic shape of all of the S/S panels won't be changed, I don't think DMC will run afoul of that reg. From the sides the car will look the same. Once they mess with the front and rear they may now become subject to meeting current regs as far as visibility, candlepower, size of the lights, 3rd brakelight, etc. I doubt changing the interior is going to disqualify DMC either. They can argue that in order to make the car more desirable to today's market they had to include updated electronics like Nav, satellite radio, cell phone and a more luxurious design. They may have to meet all of the accident design criteria as far as sharp edges, knobs, flammability, cushions and such. The biggest challenge they will have is getting another drivetrain, fitting it, and passing emissions in all States. That is going to be the main factor in what the new car will cost and how many get made.

[Rich W]

Updating the D exterior design is very difficult.

<snip>

How about a Dodge "super bird" option? definitely improved aerodynamics and coolness!

Can someone do this up in photoshop? It would, at least be fun to see!

I think I have already seen something like Bob mentioned, if I'm not mistaken ...

52173

52174

I would love to get around to building a concept of the Fire Star 500 someday.

Maybe someday.

[Bob635]

Rich,

I remember these pics too. Thanks for posting them .

One thing I don't understand is the double layer on the front end. Is that supposed to be a front spoiler?

The rear design would fit nicely with the new D I am working on. I will consider this.

Bob

[Bob635]

Rich,

Any chance you have a junk rear fascia that I could use as a base for a new rear end?

Bob

[Bob635]

Did I miss something in these pictures?

Where is the rear bumper? The tail lights are the rear bumper? Not a good idea.


Bob

[Farrar]

I'm kind of surprised that no one has ever done a DMC-12 re-skin to make it look like the "Firestar 500." Look at the door - it's exactly the same as the DMC-12.

Looks like it could be done with body work. Maybe Rich W. will surprise us one day.

[Michael]

I took my redesign a different direction, but I didn't redesign it for today, I envisioned a redesign for the late 80's

52214

[Patrick C]

I'm kind of surprised that no one has ever done a DMC-12 re-skin to make it look like the "Firestar 500." Look at the door - it's exactly the same as the DMC-12.

Looks like it could be done with body work. Maybe Rich W. will surprise us one day.

I think the idea was to use many remaining parts that Marvin Katz owned at the time. Doors, tail lights, marker lights, etc. Originally the Firestar was to be built in Ohio.

[Rich W]

I think the idea was to use many remaining parts that Marvin Katz owned at the time. Doors, tail lights, marker lights, etc. Originally the Firestar was to be built in Ohio.

This is correct. There are a few members on here that have seen "other parts" in the Ohio warehouse
that may have been part of the early work done with the FireStar 500 project.

[delornut] is one member who may know part of the story. IIRC, there was a very interesting V8 engine
at the warehouse (with DMC embossed aluminum rocker arm covers, back in the day before most CNC).

[Farrar]

I think the idea was to use many remaining parts that Marvin Katz owned at the time. Doors, tail lights, marker lights, etc. Originally the Firestar was to be built in Ohio.

Wow, I didn't know the plans went back that far! Thanks for the info. :)

[DMCVegas]

Wow, I didn't know the plans went back that far! Thanks for the info. :)

What we do know is that JZD had a plan to take the recovered stock of DMC-12 vehicle parts from KAPAC, and was going to build brand-new cars out of them. Kinda, sorta like what DMCH is doing now, except that this was to be a brand-new company with a new car that would simply utilize the DMC-12 platform instead of building the same DMC-12 model as seen in the past. I had heard that this project came very close to fruition, although I didn't know anything about parts in the Columbus warehouse, which seems odd. But out of 4 investors that this entire project hinged upon, one of them backed out due to a personal divorce, and with his funding removed, nothing moved forward. The other thing was that it was boasted that since the parts were already purchased out of bankruptcy, no moneys would be owed to the British Government, nor any of the DMC/DMCL creditors.

What is a bit murky and unproven on the other hand is this: C.R. "Dick" Brown (I believe) stated that his phone rang one night, and he heard crosstalk where was JZD on the phone with someone else talking about clearing out the entire Dunmurry factory. Parts, tooling, you name it, and wanted everything to be shipped to Panama. A last-ditch effort to same DMC where DMCL would be left holding the bag, and then a new Panamanian manufacturing facility would then instead supply DMC-12s, and the British Govt. couldn't do a thing to stop it. They would be untouchable.

How true that call was, we'll never know. It is simple hearsay. But, if true, does fit in quite nicely with what we do know. Since GPD was a Panamanian company that directed the financing between DMC & Lotus (as well as skimmed it for the missing cash amounts), DMC did already have a connection to Panama. If the conspiracy theory JZD's PI, Gordon Novel presented is true, tapping De Lorean's phones wouldn't be unheard of. Furthermore, if Brown's phone call was indeed true, well, that would also to a great extend validate the British response to DMC's collapse. Give Marvin Katz the option to continue manufacturing of the DMC-12 from the Brit-controlled Dunmurry Industrial Estate. An exclusive one which would allow the Brits to recover their investment while excluding JZD from the entire organization.

However, once Consolidated Intl. declined, everything not auctioned off which could be used to continue the production of the DMC-12 by JZD was to be destroyed. From the surplus of body panels, as well as the Kirksite dies which now sit at the bottom of Galway Bay. Lest the British Government be embarrassed further. If indeed true, no one could never admit anything of the sort because it would immediately give justification to the conspiracy theory that the Brits were someone involved with DMC's failure.

[Rich W]

Rich,

Any chance you have a junk rear fascia that I could use as a base for a new rear end?

Bob

Hi Bob,

I guess it depends on what condition you need the rear fascia. I have several that need work,
ranging from just broken studs to replace, to some that have rips, tears or other damage.

Send me a PM or an email with your specific needs.

Thanks,
Rich W.

[Rich W]

Did I miss something in these pictures?

Where is the rear bumper? The tail lights are the rear bumper? Not a good idea.


Bob

Bob,

Maybe your thought was closer to the sketch below, with tail lights and bumper closer to stock.

Obviously, the rear spoiler is much shorter than the FireStar 500, but it has a similar look to it.

52247

Chris Nicholson has fabricated a spoiler similar to this sketch for a Twin Turbo DeLorean Project.

Maybe you could create one similar to this sketch, only taller.

[Bob635]

Rich

Thanks for the pics. That is much more like what I was thinking of.

I also really like the dual exhaust ports. I should be able to find something like this from another car.

The current rear fascia that I have has been refinished and it would be a shame to mess with it.

As for the ground effects, that was a very 80s item. You just don't see it anymore. I had a friend do this to his Javalin, and they
just got beat up on the terrible roads. I still have these on a 69 Camaro. Cool looking, but sooo dated.

Today, it is more about aerodynamics, low COD. Smooth undercarriage parabolic front end curve, etc.

[mr_maxime]

Finally watched it. I liked the new headlights but not the more "aggressive/squinty" look it has on the front fascia. The delorean is a happy car, not an angry camaro. I'm not sold on the rear, but i didnt hate it either. I actually really liked the 2 tone steering, way more the the Momo ones. I could care less for the special stitching they did. I also agree that touchscreens don't belong in a car at all. Big old fashioned buttons work WAY better than touchscreen, less distraction and less likely to malfunction. Many modern car recalls are due to infotainment system issues.

I don't really understand people saying modern society is all about "flashy, attention seeking, anything but subtle". Are you saying the original Delorean wasn't already all of those? I agree the show could have focused on better stuff. 45 mins just to show to foam fascias and a new interior isn't that interesting, but let's not kid ourselves about Deloreans being subtle lol.

[DMC5180]

This is correct. There are a few members on here that have seen "other parts" in the Ohio warehouse
that may have been part of the early work done with the FireStar 500 project.

[delornut] is one member who may know part of the story. IIRC, there was a very interesting V8 engine
at the warehouse (with DMC embossed aluminum rocker arm covers, back in the day before most CNC).

I recall seeing that engine too, when I went to the Last Kapac Open house Event before Stephen acquired the total inventory.

I wonder if the engine is now sitting on a Crowded pallet rack at DMCH now. Someone posted a couple photos of it back on the old .com years ago.


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[David T]

There was all kinds of neat stuff in the warehouse in Ohio. I remember test panels that were painted, a test jig for testing the electrical operation of the doors before they were to be installed, and other things I wasn't even sure what they were. Boxes and boxes of records, warranty parts returned, damaged panels, all sorts of things. I guess they are still going through that stuff.

[Timebender]

I would think that 'IF' the 'updated' body panels went into production and DMCH offered them to existing owners, they'd be sooper pricey...

That front fascia would need to be redesigned to get rid of the slots (which should be part of the rear)...

Perhaps when I get some time, I'll do a mock up of how I'd design the thing (yaay for being a 3d modeler)....hehe.

If you're going to do that, take a look at my front fascia designs that I've put here and in my design blog at https://gregschumsky.com/2015/08/27/delorean-front-facia-design-exercise/.

I honestly think there's a lot more combined talent here in the community, between Patrick's iPad center console, to the recent digital dash project (that's not just a silly square display), and other amazing projects that's have been posted (like the digital tail-lights).

Heck, maybe we take a donor DeLorean, update the wiring, put in an LS1, and make our own prototype to show Wynne and Company.

If anyone's interested, I'll even lead the charge.

[Timebender]

Updating the D exterior design is very difficult. The D was designed at a time when the "square look" was in. (rather than the curved aerodynamic look of most cars today.)

What this means is that the D was/is not aerodynamic as cars are today. Ironically, the "squared off" from end of the cars from the late 70s and 80s was based on an error in fuel economy measurements.

GM was doing a fuel economy test on their cars early 70s (24hrs per day, for months around a track). The cars would get dirty from bugs, so one of the drivers decided to put a bug deflector on the front end and surprise! It got BETTER fuel economy than the other test vehicles. (this was repeated and verified.)

So the "squared off" front end because a design criteria for a few years, until better testing was done.

So we are dealing with updating a car, while maintaining the "square" look. What the design team did was very good. It does look more modern, but there is no improvement in aerodynamics. This would only occur with a rounded edge on the front fascia. or a more protruding front bumper to allow for a longer radiused front end. You can see this design concept on early 80s sport cars.

OR

How about a Dodge "super bird" option? definitely improved aerodynamics and coolness!

Can someone do this up in photoshop? It would, at least be fun to see!

Take a look at these- something I mocked up a couple years ago..

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12359-New-Nose-Facia-and-Spoiler-Design&highlight=Fascia

[Lwanmtr]

I was playing around with a fascia design...and didnt save before I did one thing too many...lol. I'll have to start a new one, which is fine cause I can do it better..hehe.

[Bob635]

Timebender,

An interesting cross section profile. It certainly does look more up to date from the side view.

I have been doing more research on rear spoilers. There are two candidates. The elevated cross wing similar to the JZD proposals (aka Pontiac Firebird 1969 Trans Am and the GTO Judge) is one idea.

The other is the lower integrated design similar to the Toyota cresida, 1970 Camaro Z 28.

The biggest challenge with these is the louver panel has to clear them. Unfortunately, the louver panel extends a number of inches over the rear fascia.

It would be great if you could just add the spoiler to the louver panel. Then everything would fit.

Will have to do some mock ups.

BOb

[DMCVegas]

It would be great if you could just add the spoiler to the louver panel. Then everything would fit.

Just tossing this out there, but how much of a risk do you think that attaching a spoiler to the louver panel as-is would be to the louvers? With traditional trunks, they have a secure latch to hold them in place, which in turn is securely bolted to the body. The louvers just clip onto the engine cover, which itself can come loose from it's own striker latch since it wasn't really meant to be that much of a load bearing structure. Would that need to be strengthened?

Otherwise, what about Guargio's concept for the 1984 Turbo model's spoiler? Nice little integration into the louvers/engine cover...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/63/03/f5/6303f5acc86e86210c2d0fc12205389c--dmc--car-illustration.jpg

[Bob635]

Rob,

This is just what I was thinking. Did not know that this was actually proposed. Simple clean and easy to do.

As for the question of stresses, all the spoiler does (over 60 mph) is add some downward force on the rear. This would help keep it latched
so the current system is just fine.

Thanks for these pics, I had never seen them.

Bob

[Timebender]

Timebender,

An interesting cross section profile. It certainly does look more up to date from the side view.

I have been doing more research on rear spoilers. There are two candidates. The elevated cross wing similar to the JZD proposals (aka Pontiac Firebird 1969 Trans Am and the GTO Judge) is one idea.

The other is the lower integrated design similar to the Toyota cresida, 1970 Camaro Z 28.

The biggest challenge with these is the louver panel has to clear them. Unfortunately, the louver panel extends a number of inches over the rear fascia.

It would be great if you could just add the spoiler to the louver panel. Then everything would fit.

Will have to do some mock ups.

BOb
First off, thanks Bob. :)

Second, I have a huge spoiler on the back of my DeLorean, and it doesn't seem to have any adverse effects on it since it was put on by the original owner back in the mid-80's.

Third, I'd lose the louvers altogether. Now, the trick to this is you have to have a nice clean, cool, shiny engine in there. But the design would be more in line with the Audi R8, a frame (with some vents at the rear for heat expulsion of course), with a big Lexan window where the louvers are now - you could go with a more geometric design, where the window starts out narrow at the bottom then widens towards the top, or whatever, but the idea is you now have a way to show off, if you have one, your shiny big ultra-rad engine.


Just a thought.

[Bob635]

Two interesting things I noticed in this design.

1. The rear lover is gone. The rear deck is flat but has vent portals.

2. The front turn signals are smaller and more centered to the headlights. The makes the front end
look more symmetrical and cleaner.


Some food for thought.

Bob

[Bob635]

On the 2015 electric D, we have replaced the louver and cover with a dark lexan/polycarbonate deck that opens, so you can see the batteries through.
(added a 3rd hinge).

This polycarbonate cover is stable because it does not have to deal with engine heat. Lexan will creep with the level of heat from an engine,
However, there are some thermoplastics what won't and they are used on today's engines.

There still has to be venting to deal with the engine heat - especially a V8.

So, fiberglass -long strand- would be the best starting material for a one off prototype. Next it comes down to
what are modern looking louvers?

[DMCVegas]

No worries, Bob. I don't seem to have a copy of it, but there was also an interior sketch for the '84 Turbo model that relocated the radio into an overhead console. Leaving the center console to use an equalizer for an upgraded factory sound system.

With that exterior sketch though, there are a few aesthetic differences, but the big one of note are the ground effects. In the past I remember lots of owners who said they would get fuel economy in the high 20's, and a couple that even claimed to have broke into 30+ mpg on highway driving. The only thing I could ever find that they had in common were 5-speed transmissions, and those ground effects kits. Particularly they all had rear valances installed.

I've seen some passing comments on Lotus boards in the past stating that to maintain fuel economy, the Esprit needs to keep it's rear valance/diffuser installed at all times. We know that the pre-production car had that valance installed, but was somehow mysteriously dropped at the last minute (just as the suspension was raised). Now I'm no expert, but I'd be willing to bet that you could increase the downforce with a proper diffuser, without having to install a larger spoiler/wing. That would also give the bonus of an ease of installation, not to mention create less drag on the car as a whole.

[Timebender]

On the 2015 electric D, we have replaced the louver and cover with a dark lexan/polycarbonate deck that opens, so you can see the batteries through.
(added a 3rd hinge).

This polycarbonate cover is stable because it does not have to deal with engine heat. Lexan will creep with the level of heat from an engine,
However, there are some thermoplastics what won't and they are used on today's engines.

There still has to be venting to deal with the engine heat - especially a V8.

So, fiberglass -long strand- would be the best starting material for a one off prototype. Next it comes down to
what are modern looking louvers?

Then I'd recommend for a more modern or current look, fiberglass frame with the clear thermoplastic window, and as I mentioned before, vents near the bottom by the rear fascia.

[Farrar]

Timebender I agree that the front end could use some updating. Is there a thread here on DMCTalk or elsewhere where the creatives and the fabricators can get together? I'd like to send you some sketches.

[DMC5180]

The kicker reshaping the nose is that you have to maintain the lines of the exiting fenders.

The rubber nose on the Daytona's and Super bird's was A factory Add-on that they were able to shape to the production Chargers and Roadrunners.

It would be difficult to come up with a shape that works with low body lines of the Delorean. Especially the Nose Up look caused by the lower chin spoiler.


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