1991 PRV Dodge Monaco/Premier Electrical Diagrams

[Jupiterbandit]

I am interested in knowing if anyone has the electrical diagrams for the ECC/ECU/ECM for a 1991 Dodge Monaco/Premier?

If not, Does anyone know if the Service manual for these cars show the full electrical diagrams for the engine management systems?

Thanks in advance,,

Brian

[David T]

I am interested in knowing if anyone has the electrical diagrams for the ECC/ECU/ECM for a 1991 Dodge Monaco/Premier?

If not, Does anyone know if the Service manual for these cars show the full electrical diagrams for the engine management systems?

Thanks in advance,,

Brian

Get a Workshop Manual. Some of the vendors also sell a poster with a color-coded wiring diagram.

[Drive Stainless]

Get a Workshop Manual. Some of the vendors also sell a poster with a color-coded wiring diagram.

Read carefully, David.



I have the manuals for that car. I'll check and follow-up as to whether it includes the ECU diagrams.

[Jupiterbandit]

Greatly appreciate it.

[Drive Stainless]

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[Farrar]

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[Jupiterbandit]

Thank you guys! Awesome!

I seen those books on eBay for $7 I'm gonna grab one. I hate buying a bool and it has everything but the one thing you need.

[David T]

Thank you guys! Awesome!

I seen those books on eBay for $7 I'm gonna grab one. I hate buying a bool and it has everything but the one thing you need.

You will still need a wiring diagram for the Delorean also.

[dn010]

You may find that running a ECU built for a 3,000+LB, front wheel drive, front engine 4-speed vehicle will not be efficient, splicing it in a 2700lb, rear engine, rear wheel drive 3/5 speed vehicle. I tried this with a Volvo ECU and wasted a lot of effort just because I thought it would be 'easier'. Best bet is to get a MegaSquirt ECU and save yourself a lot of headaches. You can tune the car the way YOU want, not the way the Eagle Premier is tuned. After all the work, it is nice to have adjustability over everything in the end.

[Jupiterbandit]

You may find that running a ECU built for a 3,000+LB, front wheel drive, front engine 4-speed vehicle will not be efficient, splicing it in a 2700lb, rear engine, rear wheel drive 3/5 speed vehicle. I tried this with a Volvo ECU and wasted a lot of effort just because I thought it would be 'easier'. Best bet is to get a MegaSquirt ECU and save yourself a lot of headaches. You can tune the car the way YOU want, not the way the Eagle Premier is tuned. After all the work, it is nice to have adjustability over everything in the end.

The only thing is, everyone who has done the megasquirt says they spend a ton of time tuning and they still don't have it right.

If I can get this running as a stand alone then it'll be better than the 2.8 and that's all I'm looking for right now.

We'll see, if it doesn't work then I'll do a megasquirt.

[dn010]

Spend time tuning, agreed it does take time. Everyone who has done it still doesn't have it right? Disagreed unless I'm the only one. Sure there are numbers you can change to make things run differently but I'd say I have mine set up pretty damn good with no issues to date.

Of course, you need to do what fits your needs and goals and that's what is important.


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[Jupiterbandit]

Spend time tuning, agreed it does take time. Everyone who has done it still doesn't have it right? Disagreed unless I'm the only one. Sure there are numbers you can change to make things run differently but I'd say I have mine set up pretty damn good with no issues to date.

Of course, you need to do what fits your needs and goals and that's what is important.


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That's good news. I wonder why the others have had so many issues.

[Farrar]

You might be the first to get a donor ECU functioning in a 3.0L transplant. If so, it will be interesting to see how you did it. :) Failing that, you basically have two options: MegaSquirt, or what's on my car. (And you don't want what's on my car.)

[David T]

What makes it so hard to tune it and get it right under all operating conditions is that you must actually put it under all operating conditions. Like starting it cold at 0 degrees or trying to restart it at 100 + degrees. Tuning takes whole departments at large auto companies to get it right. Rare to see a custom tune really done right. Much easier to modify a good tune that works and make it work better.

[dn010]

It takes 'a bit' of research, understanding and trial and error to tune. It takes time and, a lot of it you'll actually spend in your car. And this is why you don't see people offering up their countless hours worth of .msq files here. It's not so bad as people think though. If you want to get it done and you are willing to do a lot of reading, you will succeed.

There is no question if I'd do it all over again. Wait, I can't wait to get another one and do it all over again!


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[Josh]

Ive tried to help you out man, but you are jumping to your own conclusions.

This will become a timely and expensive exercise for you.

The stock ecu will not work, not at least how you want it to. Even if you get it running you will be forever chasing issues.

I am not sure why you think all megasquirt cars are improperly tuned/running this is far from true. I know I had mine running very well, put on about 13000mi in 2 years before I moved on to a V8.

[Josh]

What makes it so hard to tune it and get it right under all operating conditions is that you must actually put it under all operating conditions. Like starting it cold at 0 degrees or trying to restart it at 100 + degrees. Tuning takes whole departments at large auto companies to get it right. Rare to see a custom tune really done right. Much easier to modify a good tune that works and make it work better.

David I believe you are speaking far out of your area of expertise. None of this comment is close to true and very off-putting to someone looking to get into tuning.

[David T]

David I believe you are speaking far out of your area of expertise. None of this comment is close to true and very off-putting to someone looking to get into tuning.

What most people call "tuning" is just trying to maximize output. Creating tables, "maps"' is all about optimizing the motor for all different operating conditions. You worry about emissions, fuel economy, reliability and longevity. There is also serviceability and driving comfort. Shift points, cold starting, all kinds of things that you can't do with ordinary city driving or just siting in your garage. Dyno time is expensive so most won't spend the money for all of the dyno time necessary. While the newer ECU's do try to simplify and make the whole process easier, to get it right takes a lot of work. I hope I do not scare anyone from going ahead and doing it, I just think they should understand this stuff is not "Plug and Play". There are forums for this stuff so go over there and find out for yourself what it takes to really get it right. There are 2 big reasons most don't share their files freely.
1) It takes a lot of work to get it done so most won't share them for free.
2) Each is so custom that even if you do share it, if you do not have exactly the same configuration, it won't work right.

[Jupiterbandit]

Ive tried to help you out man, but you are jumping to your own conclusions.

This will become a timely and expensive exercise for you.

The stock ecu will not work, not at least how you want it to. Even if you get it running you will be forever chasing issues.

I am not sure why you think all megasquirt cars are improperly tuned/running this is far from true. I know I had mine running very well, put on about 13000mi in 2 years before I moved on to a V8.


I'm not saying you are wrong. It only cost me $150.00 to find out if I can get this motor running on the ground. If it will run on the floor I will try it in the DeLorean. IF it doesn't then I'll move on to the megasquirt. I'm having fun playing with it so it's no loss. I am grateful for your help. It's great when people come together to build a hobby. If I do a megasquirt and I get it running I will for sure, share all of the .msq files with everyone.

I was one of the first to do EFI 5.0 conversion in a 67 mustang and I shared my bible with the mustang community and it helped a lot of people.

I am aware that it is said it can't be done. But if I do it, then what? If I don't do it then I'll attest to it.

[Josh]

I'm not saying you are wrong. It only cost me $150.00 to find out if I can get this motor running on the ground. If it will run on the floor I will try it in the DeLorean. IF it doesn't then I'll move on to the megasquirt. I'm having fun playing with it so it's no loss. I am grateful for your help. It's great when people come together to build a hobby. If I do a megasquirt and I get it running I will for sure, share all of the .msq files with everyone.

I was one of the first to do EFI 5.0 conversion in a 67 mustang and I shared my bible with the mustang community and it helped a lot of people.

I am aware that it is said it can't be done. But if I do it, then what? If I don't do it then I'll attest to it.

There are several 3.0 msq files floating around right now, athough another would be nice, its not holding anyone back. Tuning from scratch is much easier anyway.

Not only is it said it cant be done, it has been proven it cannot be done. Why you chose to not believe this I haven't the slightest clue. People are trying to help them and you are just ignoring them and going your own direction that they are advising you against.

Take this for an example... For my LS swap I machine a flywheel from a chunk of 12" round bar stock. Many people would not fathom doing this and say the swap is impossible. But with some careful design and machining it is.
On the other hand you have a stock 3.0 computer, lots of people say it is impossible. This is because it is true. With no amount of careful planning and wiring will it work, or work well.

But it sounds like you will find this out on your own.

Im not saying this cause I want to sell you a trigger wheel setup, honestly not that interested in dealing with you at this point.

[Jupiterbandit]

There are several 3.0 msq files floating around right now, athough another would be nice, its not holding anyone back. Tuning from scratch is much easier anyway.

Not only is it said it cant be done, it has been proven it cannot be done. Why you chose to not believe this I haven't the slightest clue. People are trying to help them and you are just ignoring them and going your own direction that they are advising you against.

Take this for an example... For my LS swap I machine a flywheel from a chunk of 12" round bar stock. Many people would not fathom doing this and say the swap is impossible. But with some careful design and machining it is.
On the other hand you have a stock 3.0 computer, lots of people say it is impossible. This is because it is true. With no amount of careful planning and wiring will it work, or work well.

But it sounds like you will find this out on your own.

Im not saying this cause I want to sell you a trigger wheel setup, honestly not that interested in dealing with you at this point.

Oh wow. Sorry you feel that way.

[Farrar]

I could be reading it wrong - I am no expert - but it looks like there's a T.D.C. trigger on the stock flywheel. (See highlights on pages below.) This should make your EFI conversion easier regardless of which computer you use.

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[Josh]

I could be reading it wrong - I am no expert - but it looks like there's a T.D.C. trigger on the stock flywheel. (See highlights on pages below.) This should make your EFI conversion easier regardless of which computer you use.

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That sensor is there, however it is not the correct tooth pattern or sensor type for the 3.0 computer.

You could use it for megasquirt, but there are better sensors out there.

It is only used for diagnostic purposes with k jet, it does not connect to the computer at all.

[Farrar]

You could use it for megasquirt

Thanks for clarifying.

[Drive Stainless]

That sensor is there, however it is not the correct tooth pattern or sensor type for the 3.0 computer.

You could use it for megasquirt, but there are better sensors out there.

It is only used for diagnostic purposes with k jet, it does not connect to the computer at all.

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[Jupiterbandit]

I could be reading it wrong - I am no expert - but it looks like there's a T.D.C. trigger on the stock flywheel. (See highlights on pages below.) This should make your EFI conversion easier regardless of which computer you use.

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What book did you get that out of?

Thanks

[Josh]

I should add you would need to grind off at least one flywheel tooth so it has a frame of reference for one revolution. Lol.

[Farrar]

What book did you get that out of?

The DeLorean Workshop Manual.

[dn010]

About 5 years ago I looked into using this sensor. This sensor would need to be triggered by magnets in the flywheel since there is no tooth pattern on our flywheel. Although I never took a magnet to my flywheel to check, there is no evidence of magnets ever being installed on it therefore it is just another one of those things that are there in our cars but are useless.

36-1 trigger wheel on the back of the crank pulley - Done.

[Farrar]

Although I never took a magnet to my flywheel to check, there is no evidence of magnets ever being installed on it.

So our cars' manufacturer went to the trouble of installing a sensor ... with nothing for it to sense. Just another little DeLorean quirk, I suppose.

I guess it's a good thing no one has ever tried to use the diagnostic port. LOL

[David T]

So our cars' manufacturer went to the trouble of installing a sensor ... with nothing for it to sense. Just another little DeLorean quirk, I suppose.

I guess it's a good thing no one has ever tried to use the diagnostic port. LOL

That port also includes a +12 volt source, a ground, a terminal for the Lambda ECU to read duty cycle, and the RPM sensor. No one uses the RPM sensor but the other wires are useful (if they are all still connected). I guess future plans were to be able to plug into it for diagnostic purposes. On the automatics the plug for the shift computer is right next to it, also for diagnostic purposes.

[Jupiterbandit]

About 5 years ago I looked into using this sensor. This sensor would need to be triggered by magnets in the flywheel since there is no tooth pattern on our flywheel. Although I never took a magnet to my flywheel to check, there is no evidence of magnets ever being installed on it therefore it is just another one of those things that are there in our cars but are useless.

36-1 trigger wheel on the back of the crank pulley - Done.

And $1,500 to make it work.

[dn010]

Actually the trigger wheel was free with the $60 purchase of Ford EDIS-6, I'd never pay $1,500 for a trigger wheel or to have it bolted or welded to the pulley.


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[Josh]

Actually the trigger wheel was free with the $60 purchase of Ford EDIS-6, I'd never pay $1,500 for a trigger wheel or to have it bolted or welded to the pulley.


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I quoted $150 for a trigger wheel setup... including welding it to the pulley and bracketry. Which is pretty darn fair Id say. Perhaps 1500 for a whole MS setup which is about accurate if you know what to buy.

[dn010]

Oh, I understand now. I didn't pay nearly that much for my setup, maybe half as much, but I also had almost all components less the ECU and I decided to upgrade injectors, not that I needed to... $150 seems reasonable for a pulley with wheel to bolt on the engine along with brackets.


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[Farrar]

As recently as last year, I was told I should expect to spend $2,000 for a "proper" MegaSquirt setup. (FWIW, I am spending about half of that for my conversion, and that includes the price of the engine. Different strokes for different folks' budgets!)

[Jupiterbandit]

I quoted $150 for a trigger wheel setup... including welding it to the pulley and bracketry. Which is pretty darn fair Id say. Perhaps 1500 for a whole MS setup which is about accurate if you know what to buy.

Don't you have to buy megasquirt to use your pulley and trigger wheel with? Unless I was looking at the wrong megasquirt, I thought it was $1500 for it.

I never said I wouldn't buy your pulley set up. I plan on running a turbo so I'd need a megasquirt and trigger wheel.

[dn010]

You're probably looking at megasquirt "pro" plug and play ECUs that are very expensive. Check out the direct source www.diyautotune.com for pricing, you just need a megasquirt I, II or III ECU either assembled or for cheaper Un-assembled and you'd need to assemble it provided you're good at soldering.

I run a MS3X 3.57 and after just looking at them, damn did the prices go up! Hundreds more than years ago!


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[Josh]

Don't you have to buy megasquirt to use your pulley and trigger wheel with? Unless I was looking at the wrong megasquirt, I thought it was $1500 for it.

I never said I wouldn't buy your pulley set up. I plan on running a turbo so I'd need a megasquirt and trigger wheel.

If you plan on running a turbo why bother with the stock ecu (note the title of this thread)

Youre all over the place man. If you took some time and did some reading on megasquirt and the delorean adaptations you could learn a lot.

[Jupiterbandit]

If you plan on running a turbo why bother with the stock ecu (note the title of this thread)

Youre all over the place man. If you took some time and did some reading on megasquirt and the delorean adaptations you could learn a lot.


I have a 90 day warranty that the motor is good. Hooking it up on the floor is easy. It will run and I can see if it's smoking, knocking, slapping or any other crazy problem. Either way the stock ECU won't handle mods very well.

Personally I don't know why you are so vested in what I do with my project? If you are offering help great, If you are trying to dictate what I do, it's not needed.

I can weld a trigger wheel to a crank pulley myself. Making sure its at TDC and lines up with the sensor. I can weld and fabricate and I have a great machine shop I used on many projects. Buying your pulley would of just saved me the time.

So I appreciate your knowledge Josh, and I'd like this to be a fun experience. Try not to be so disappointed. It always works out in the end.

[dn010]

I believe Josh, like myself, is just trying to make it clear from experience the easiest way to do it so that you don't waste your time and so that you can have full benefit of all the time and money you put into a swap. Again, I personally tried to run a Volvo ECU on my B280F engine, after all the time and effort- I went to MS. It didn't make sense to go through everything and have no adjustability especially if I want to go to a different engine, different injectors, turbos, etc. I also left all the stock connectors there in case down the road someone wants the original engine back in it.

As I said before, you need to do what fits your needs and goals and I wish you luck.

[Josh]

I did offer help, but it was not to your liking so you went down a different path, for reasons that are beyond me.
It is not my opinion or my way to do things - it is the successful way to get the 3.0 running in your car. But I doubt you read anything based on your questions.
Your situation is not unique, the diy 3.0 swappers come and go, usually resulting in another car sitting with a non functioning engine for years.

[Jupiterbandit]

I did offer help, but it was not to your liking so you went down a different path, for reasons that are beyond me.
It is not my opinion or my way to do things - it is the successful way to get the 3.0 running in your car. But I doubt you read anything based on your questions.
Your situation is not unique, the diy 3.0 swappers come and go, usually resulting in another car sitting with a non functioning engine for years.

This car won't sit. If all else fails I've already contacted DMC for a motor.

[opethmike]

I'm just curious why you keep asking for help and advice and then argue with the responses you get from people who have actually done this stuff. Also quite curious where you got this idea that there are "a lot of Megasquirt cars not running right." Mine runs darn near perfect, and I helped Josh get his 3.0 running darn near perfect from several thousands of miles away.

Also, do not listen to Dave T. about this tuning topic; he really doesn't know what he is talking about, but he will never admit to being wrong or not knowing what he's talking about. He just has to sound like he's the smartest person in the room.

[Farrar]

the diy 3.0 swappers come and go, usually resulting in another car sitting with a non functioning engine for years.

Usually. 8)

[Jupiterbandit]

I'm just curious why you keep asking for help and advice and then argue with the responses you get from people who have actually done this stuff. Also quite curious where you got this idea that there are "a lot of Megasquirt cars not running right." Mine runs darn near perfect, and I helped Josh get his 3.0 running darn near perfect from several thousands of miles away.

Also, do not listen to Dave T. about this tuning topic; he really doesn't know what he is talking about, but he will never admit to being wrong or not knowing what he's talking about. He just has to sound like he's the smartest person in the room.

What are you even talking about? I didn't argue with anyone. People are bent out of shape over me wanting to fire a motor on the floor to see it run? Holly crap Batman.

As far as people having tuning issues, I read them in the many forums that pertain to 3.0 swaps and megasquirt. I figured they were old posts and someone by now has found a way.

I will not post anything. I'll just read the forums. I normally share but I see it's not welcome here.

Thanks to those who are helpful. Those who are have been helping me on Facebook. I was going to document my progress here but no need. There's already enough people.