chirping noise that goes away when i press the brakes.

[novadmc]

as the title says - i've noticed what i can only describe as a rhythmic chirping noise (sounds like a cricket) when the car is moving that's frequency changes as the car increases or decreases speed. Appears to come from the front left wheel.

When the brakes are applied at any speed, the chirping stops. it typically returns a few seconds later after releasing the breaks if the car is still moving.

i'm assuming its just the pads slightly rubbing against the rotors. anything else that it could be/i should inspect. when jacking the front end up and spinning the wheel by hand, i don't feel any grinding nor does it feel like a possible wheel bearing issue. Just want to get sanity checked before i start start looking into it blindly.

[David T]

as the title says - i've noticed what i can only describe as a rhythmic chirping noise (sounds like a cricket) when the car is moving that's frequency changes as the car increases or decreases speed. Appears to come from the front left wheel.

When the brakes are applied at any speed, the chirping stops. it typically returns a few seconds later after releasing the breaks if the car is still moving.

i'm assuming its just the pads slightly rubbing against the rotors. anything else that it could be/i should inspect. when jacking the front end up and spinning the wheel by hand, i don't feel any grinding nor does it feel like a possible wheel bearing issue. Just want to get sanity checked before i start start looking into it blindly.

Normal, especially if you don't regularly use the car. PJ Grady has a spring kit that can reduce the noise.

[RamblinDMC]

I had a similar issue and it turned out to be cheap brake pads. I replaced them with some nicer ceramic ones and the noise went away. The springs help too. Home Depot has a spring assortment that has usable ones in it.

[novadmc]

thanks! at least its not something to worry about and im not going crazy.
this afternoon i pulled both front tires off, cleaned the brakes and rotors with some brake clean and then re-greased the sides of the pads, the pins, retaining clips and retentions springs. prior to this, everything was bone dry with no lubrication on the contact points. ill take the car for a drive tomorrow and see if that helps the squeak at all.

on the bright side, ive got plenty of pad and rotor life left and took notes on what i want to replace for my eventual suspension upgrades.
i should do the same to the rears. maybe tomorrow or later in the month...

[opethmike]

Have you considered not pressing the brakes?

[David T]

If you are trying to fix it yourself there are a couple of other things you can try. Get an electric drill and a scotch-brite 3" rollock pad and do a circular pattern around the rotors on both sides. There is what is called "threading" where the rotors develop a pattern and the pads will follow it up and down like a needle on a a record. They thread up and drop down making a clicking noise. Next, lightly sand the pads to provide a fresh surface. Clean the metal backs and apply an anti-squeal goo sparingly. Sand the edges of the metal pads so they can move freely in the caliper. Last, install new springs. If the springs are not strong enough they won't work and if they are tiny, the heat softens them up and they lose strength. Best to get the right ones, not from Home Depot. Some pads come with an anti-squeal shim. Stay away from ceramics, they don't grip well when cold r wet and chew up the rotors.

[DMC-81]

I'll have to disagree on avoiding ceramic pads. I have now clocked 100,000 miles on my Magnum with ceramic pads. They stop great and are quiet. I only had to replace them once at 60,000 miles. I paid the extra for ceramic again. At that interval, the rotors were in great condition and barely under new spec. Here in Florida, I can't speak to cold weather performance, but in wet weather they are also great. I really like the low dust feature as well. My Camaro has Brembo performance brakes with pads that emit a lot of black brake dust. What a mess, and they squeal when backing up. When they need to be replaced, I'll definitely get ceramic.

My DeLorean has the ceramic formulation pads from DMC. I like them for the same reasons as the Magnum.

[opethmike]

^ I agree, 100%

I have ceramic pads on my DeLorean, on my Elise, as well as my C5 Corvette. They stop brilliantly cold, freakishly well warm, and make damn near zero noise.

The only disadvantage is that they cost more.

[DMC-81]

^ I agree, 100%

I have ceramic pads on my DeLorean, on my Elise, as well as my C5 Corvette. They stop brilliantly cold, freakishly well warm, and make damn near zero noise.

The only disadvantage is that they cost more.

Excellent! Yeah, in my opinion, ceramic pads are totally worth the extra price.

[RamblinDMC]

If you are trying to fix it yourself there are a couple of other things you can try. Get an electric drill and a scotch-brite 3" rollock pad and do a circular pattern around the rotors on both sides. There is what is called "threading" where the rotors develop a pattern and the pads will follow it up and down like a needle on a a record. They thread up and drop down making a clicking noise. Next, lightly sand the pads to provide a fresh surface. Clean the metal backs and apply an anti-squeal goo sparingly. Sand the edges of the metal pads so they can move freely in the caliper. Last, install new springs. If the springs are not strong enough they won't work and if they are tiny, the heat softens them up and they lose strength. Best to get the right ones, not from Home Depot. Some pads come with an anti-squeal shim. Stay away from ceramics, they don't grip well when cold r wet and chew up the rotors.


The right ones? As far as I know, a spring is a spring. I don't think any manufacturer out there is producing a spring specifically engineered for DeLorean brake calipers.

[opethmike]

The right ones? As far as I know, a spring is a spring. I don't think any manufacturer out there is producing a spring specifically engineered for DeLorean brake calipers.

They're not. Just Dave trying to look smart again.

[Jonathan]

thanks! at least its not something to worry about and im not going crazy.
this afternoon i pulled both front tires off, cleaned the brakes and rotors with some brake clean and then re-greased the sides of the pads, the pins, retaining clips and retentions springs. prior to this, everything was bone dry with no lubrication on the contact points. ill take the car for a drive tomorrow and see if that helps the squeak at all.

on the bright side, ive got plenty of pad and rotor life left and took notes on what i want to replace for my eventual suspension upgrades.
i should do the same to the rears. maybe tomorrow or later in the month...

Are all the pieces of the anti-rattle clip kit in there how they're supposed to be, including the shims?

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6149-HowTo-Front-brakes-anti-rattle-clip-installation

[David T]

What you probably have is not really "ceramic". If it was you would have no grip when cold or wet and it would have chewed up your rotors. Many manufacturers use that term but it is not "ceramic". They use it on the box so they can charge more for the pads. Examine the pads. You should find 2 letters on it somewhere indicating it's true grip. Look for EE or FF or something similar. That will tell you what you really have. As for springs, they come in all diameters, lengths and coil diameters. If you get one that has a coil diameter that is too small, it will just lose it's tension when it gets too hot. If it is not properly heat treated it can lose it's tension too. That is why I said to get the springs from a Delorean vendor, they have the size that works.

[novadmc]

Have you considered not pressing the brakes?

have you considered mailing me a garbage plate? :)

[opethmike]

They use it on the box so they can charge more for the pads.

Kind of how like you use 'DeLorean Guru' as your nickname so you can sound smart quoting workshop manuals?

[DMC5180]

I had this chirp issue for many years and squealing front breaks when coming to a stop.

I finally fixed both issues with the anti-rattle spring and anti-squeal shim kit. Aka: Front brake hardware kit. I installed the kit this spring and they have been quite ever since. The original spring style is NLA. The aftermarket hardware kit uses a different style spring than the original version but seems to work. I got the kits 1 per side from DMCMW.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

"The original spring style is NLA." FYI, although they may have been on your car when you bought it, no Deloreans came from the factory with brake anti-rattle clips. That is unfortunate since this was a common complaint since day one. Many ago I started using lightly modified A.R. springs in the front and clips in the rear brakes and this has always solved the clicking or "threading" problem. DMCH vendors started using a little different style clip some years ago and it doesn't matter which style you use as they both work. Of course I would prefer you choose mine for an obvious reason! In both cases these clips are designed to eliminate pad clicking only and will not solve squealing issues which have other causes.
Rob

[DMC-81]

What you probably have is not really "ceramic". If it was you would have no grip when cold or wet and it would have chewed up your rotors. Many manufacturers use that term but it is not "ceramic". They use it on the box so they can charge more for the pads. Examine the pads. You should find 2 letters on it somewhere indicating it's true grip. Look for EE or FF or something similar. That will tell you what you really have.


Stay away from ceramics, they don't grip well when cold r wet and chew up the rotors.

David, If you are addressing me, I most certainly know that I have ceramic pads. I find it pretty ridiculous that you would suggest that any of us that mentioned them "probably" don't have them.

I also find it troubling that you repeat incorrect information. Since you don't trust manufacturers information, here is an excerpt of an article on comparing types of brake pads from Consumer Reports:

Types of brake pads
There are four general types of brake pads for cars and trucks:

Semimetallic: This formula, containing about 30 to 65 percent metal, typically includes chopped steel wool or wire, iron powder, copper or graphite mixed with inorganic fillers, and friction modifiers that bond all the ingredients together. These pads are more durable and have excellent heat transfer, but also wear down rotors faster, can be noisy, and may not perform optimally at low temperatures.

Nonasbestos organic: Sometimes listed as organic or NAO, this type of pad is made from fibers, such as glass, rubber, carbon, and Kevlar, with filler materials and high-temperature resins. These pads are softer and create less noise, but they wear faster and create more dust.

Low-metallic NAO: These are made from an organic formula mixed with small amounts (10 to 30 percent) of copper or steel to help with heat transfer and provide better braking. With the added metal, there is more brake dust and they may be slightly noisier.

Ceramic: These are composed of ceramic fibers, nonferrous filler materials, bonding agents, and possibly small amounts of metal. Lighter in color and more expensive than other brake pads, ceramic pads are cleaner and quieter, and offer excellent braking characteristics without wearing down the rotors.

Here is the entire article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/12/brake-pads-what-to-look-for/index.htm

There are tons of similar articles on the topic.

To the OP, I have the DMC shim kit on my DeLorean that Jonathan mentioned above, and whether you get it from them or PJ Grady, I recommend it.

[opethmike]

Maybe he's thinking of carbon ceramic rotors...?

[DMC-81]

Maybe he's thinking of carbon ceramic rotors...?

Who knows.. He's likely confusing them with semi-metallic pads. Everybody makes errors, but when someone disagrees with me, I stop, go back and check my facts and consider what has been said. I don't double down by repeating the same thing.

[opethmike]

Who knows.. He's likely confusing them with semi-metallic pads. Everybody makes errors, but when someone disagrees with me, I stop, go back and check my facts and consider what has been said. I don't double down by repeating the same thing.

*hits Facebook like button*

[DMC5180]

"The original spring style is NLA." FYI, although they may have been on your car when you bought it, no Deloreans came from the factory with brake anti-rattle clips. That is unfortunate since this was a common complaint since day one. Many ago I started using lightly modified A.R. springs in the front and clips in the rear brakes and this has always solved the clicking or "threading" problem. DMCH vendors started using a little different style clip some years ago and it doesn't matter which style you use as they both work. Of course I would prefer you choose mine for an obvious reason! In both cases these clips are designed to eliminate pad clicking only and will not solve squealing issues which have other causes.
Rob

I was not aware the cars never had A.R. Springs from the factory.
When I said original style, I was referring to a style clip/spring that I had seen offered by you and other vendors over the years.

As for anti-squeal, I didn't have the OE anti-squeal shims. Installing the shims and springs fixed both of my issues.

[David T]

Metallics, semi-metalics, and ceramics, at least the ones sold for racing, WILL chew up rotors and are not meant for street driving. If you are using them they are a hybrid and not true ceramics or metallics. IMHO it is best to go with what the Delorean vendors offer. They use them for their service customers and are the right mix of driving characteristics, life, noise, and dirt for street driving. Often, if you are buying other things, buying brake pads from the Delorean vendors will work out cheaper than finding them on your own. These terms have become marketing terms and have become meaningless. Check for the EE, FF, EF or something similar to understand exactly what kind of pad you have. You cannot go by what is on the box.

[opethmike]

Hopelessness is 100% assured at this point. Time to put The Guru on the block list.

[DMC-81]

Metallics, semi-metalics, and ceramics, at least the ones sold for racing, WILL chew up rotors and are not meant for street driving. If you are using them they are a hybrid and not true ceramics or metallics. IMHO it is best to go with what the Delorean vendors offer. They use them for their service customers and are the right mix of driving characteristics, life, noise, and dirt for street driving. Often, if you are buying other things, buying brake pads from the Delorean vendors will work out cheaper than finding them on your own. These terms have become marketing terms and have become meaningless. Check for the EE, FF, EF or something similar to understand exactly what kind of pad you have. You cannot go by what is on the box.

Who are you talking to? At this point, I'm not taking any brake pad advice from you as it's nonsense. You said twice to stay away from ceramics. That's ridulous. Do you know that DMC sells ceramic pads?
http://store.delorean.com/p-7406-front-brake-disc-pads.aspx

When called out on it, now you are talking about "racing" pads.

David, I'm going to offer you some unsolicited advice.

1) Take the silly "DeLorean Guru" off your avatar as its apparently forcing you to make unwise statements to defend it. There are lots of experts on this forum.

2) Take the time to actually READ the post and offer targeted advice to the problem at hand. You mentioned a couple times that you are offering your shotgun style advice for the benefit of other owners. This approach comes off as a disingenuous copy and paste generic response. Don't worry about trying to address the questions that haven't been asked. Let those people do their searches and if necessary, ask them.

3) It's OK to admit you were wrong. In fact, it's better for your credibility that you do.

We are all trying to help other owners with our collective experience. You have some good advice sometimes when you target your response.

[DMCVegas]

Often, if you are buying other things, buying brake pads from the Delorean vendors will work out cheaper than finding them on your own.

That I cannot argue with. It is far cheaper and easier to buy the pads & hardware kits from a DeLorean vendor to save both time and money. I bought a set of brake pads *once* from AutoZone years ago, and wasted so much time in their manuals trying to match up the silhouettes in the books to the old pads I brought in. In the time it took driving to the store, searching for the correct pads, and then home, I could have been at least half way through my brake job had I just have ordered the parts in advance. Worst part? The damn things squealed worse than a city bus! I ended up ordering another set from P.J. Grady with their hardware kit w/springs, and they were silent from there on out.

I also have ceramic pads installed on my F-150 w/stock calipers and brand new rotors. I *do* notice that on very cold winter mornings I have to warm the brakes up a bit to get their grabbing power back up to normal. But it's only about a block or two of red lights and stop signs that get them up to snuff, and it's not all that bad. It's not like I have zero braking ability, it just has slightly more stopping distance, and like I say, it quickly disappears. Never had a problem in the frequent Houston rains personally, but whenever it's wet I always brake slowly to scrape rain water & road grime off to ensure I grip proper. Now truck brakes also are overbuilt from the factory because it's expected they'll be dealing with greater weights from cargo & towing payloads, so for everyday driving it didn't feel that different. But when worked them harder I could definitely tell that the ceramic pads performed much better when pulling a trailer than the OEM pads when hauling a trailer cross country. Particularly in the steep, windy mountain passes of New Mexico, during rain storms. Otherwise, ensure you get some quality lubricants for your caliper & drum assemblies on whatever vehicle you're working on.

If noting else, the low/non-existent dust from ceramic pads alone makes them worth the cost. I'd love to source some for my DeLorean in the upcoming year. The brake fade on stock when coming down from triple-digit speeds on the open highway wasn't the most comforting feeling in the world. But even if I opted for 3rd party pads again, there is no way in hell I'd ever install them without Grady's hardware kit.

[Jonathan]

"The original spring style is NLA." FYI, although they may have been on your car when you bought it, no Deloreans came from the factory with brake anti-rattle clips. That is unfortunate since this was a common complaint since day one. Many ago I started using lightly modified A.R. springs in the front and clips in the rear brakes and this has always solved the clicking or "threading" problem. DMCH vendors started using a little different style clip some years ago and it doesn't matter which style you use as they both work. Of course I would prefer you choose mine for an obvious reason! In both cases these clips are designed to eliminate pad clicking only and will not solve squealing issues which have other causes.
Rob

Is there something actually available for purchase for the rear brakes? I have had the front hardware kit clips and shims in place on the fronts, but had always been under the impression a similar kit was not available for the rears. My rears tend to "click" and I'd love to put something similar in place on those. I had not thought the front hardware kit would also work/fit on the rears, but maybe I was mistaken?

[DMC5180]

Jonathan,

Didn't you post some photos of your front hardware installation? If so, please repost the thread link here.

[Jonathan]

Jonathan,

Didn't you post some photos of your front hardware installation? If so, please repost the thread link here.

I did. In this thread, 12th post, lol. I think the OP might not have seen it though as there weren't any comments on it. I've wondered if the same kit could be used on the rears, but had thought maybe it didn't fit for one reason or another.

[David T]

I do not expect everyone on this forum to agree with my advice. In fact, it makes the forum better, challenging each other's positions and advice. Some things raise people's opinions to a religious zeal, oil, brake pads, etc. That is all well and good. In the end we are all here to offer our opinions and advice for the greater group. My goal is to help as many owners take the best care of their car that they can. Not all will follow my advice, I understand that. Occasionally I can also be wrong. I think it is over the line to attack me personally though. I have not attacked anyone personally for their opinions, I have challenged their advice. Sometimes they are wrong. That is the self-correcting thing about this forum. I accept it and so should you. When you don't agree with me you attack my credentials. I would put my experience and credentials up against anyone. I have been on this forum and it's predecessor for many years and contributed much of my knowledge and experience towards helping other owners with their cars. In the local area I actually go and help owners with their cars. Disagree with me, that's fine but to disparage me, that is not. Getting back to brake pads, you should do your research. What they call ceramics today are not truly ceramics. The same goes for most other things. These terms have become marketing tools and as such they have become meaningless. Today's ceramic pads are a hybrid of several types of materiel (at least the ones sold for the street). By blending different types of materiel they try to get the best qualities of each while mitigating the worst ones. Kind of like Orange Juice. They are allowed to say it's orange juice in their advertising even if it is only 15% orange juice! The only true measure of a brake pad is the double letter designation required by Federal Law stamped onto each pad. This is getting esoteric. The bottom line here for most owners is to buy their parts from their favorite Delorean vendor as much as they can. They will get (for the most part) parts that fit, will work as intended, and will usually be at competitive prices.

[DMC-81]

I do not expect everyone on this forum to agree with my advice. In fact, it makes the forum better, challenging each other's positions and advice. Some things raise people's opinions to a religious zeal, oil, brake pads, etc. That is all well and good. In the end we are all here to offer our opinions and advice for the greater group. My goal is to help as many owners take the best care of their car that they can. Not all will follow my advice, I understand that. Occasionally I can also be wrong. I think it is over the line to attack me personally though. I have not attacked anyone personally for their opinions, I have challenged their advice. Sometimes they are wrong. That is the self-correcting thing about this forum.I accept it and so should you. When you don't agree with me you attack my credentials. I would put my experience and credentials up against anyone. I have been on this forum and it's predecessor for many years and contributed much of my knowledge and experience towards helping other owners with their cars. In the local area I actually go and help owners with their cars. Disagree with me, that's fine but to disparage me, that is not. Getting back to brake pads, you should do your research. What they call ceramics today are not truly ceramics. The same goes for most other things. These terms have become marketing tools and as such they have become meaningless. Today's ceramic pads are a hybrid of several types of materiel (at least the ones sold for the street). By blending different types of materiel they try to get the best qualities of each while mitigating the worst ones. Kind of like Orange Juice. They are allowed to say it's orange juice in their advertising even if it is only 15% orange juice! The only true measure of a brake pad is the double letter designation required by Federal Law stamped onto each pad. This is getting esoteric. The bottom line here for most owners is to buy their parts from their favorite Delorean vendor as much as they can. They will get (for the most part) parts that fit, will work as intended, and will usually be at competitive prices.


David,

I'm not attacking you personally. I'm giving you feedback about your consistent online behavior to NOT accept a contrary opinion, despite what you said above. You keep repeating wrong information when you are challenged. Tell me, is that because you are afraid to say you were mistaken, because you feel you don't have to due to your self appointed moniker, or some other reason?

I'm glad you agree that we are all here to help each other out. That being the case, I'm sure that it isn't your intention to spread incorrect information. So, it's what you choose to do or not do with the feedback that is important.

Finally, please don't tell me to do my research on brake pads, or to accept the self correcting nature of the forum. What audacity! I don't need your advice on these parts and I didn't ask for it. I challenged YOUR incorrect advice, remember? Like you said, this is what makes the forum better. Please listen to your own advice. That is the bottom line.

If you want to discuss it further, send me a PM.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Is there something actually available for purchase for the rear brakes? I have had the front hardware kit clips and shims in place on the fronts, but had always been under the impression a similar kit was not available for the rears. My rears tend to "click" and I'd love to put something similar in place on those. I had not thought the front hardware kit would also work/fit on the rears, but maybe I was mistaken?

We have always offered a rear brake hardware kit (#109012G $19.50) that includes the pad pins, clevis clips, and antirattle clips which we modify for this application. They are available with or without the padset included. I'm not sure if other vendors offer something similiar. The front and rear kits are not interchangeable.
Rob

[Jonathan]

We have always offered a rear brake hardware kit (#109012G $19.50) that includes the pad pins, clevis clips, and antirattle clips which we modify for this application. They are available with or without the padset included. I'm not sure if other vendors offer something similiar. The front and rear kits are not interchangeable.
Rob

Is that on your website somewhere Rob? I didn't see it just now when looking through the products pages. Or a photo of the kit maybe if it isn't viewable online?

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Is that on your website somewhere Rob? I didn't see it just now when looking through the products pages. Or a photo of the kit maybe if it isn't viewable online?

No it's not. I will get you a pic as time permits.
Rob

[novadmc]

not to interrupt any of the drama-llamas, but just an update:
After lubricating all the applicable contact surfaces, front and rear, I i finally took the car for a ride. brakes are noticeably smoother when depressing the pedal and, for now, the rhythmic chirping is gone.

rear greased
53576

now, onto figuring out what causes that occasional grinding when trying to put the car in reverse after driving the car for a while....

[DMC-81]

Im glad that you got it sorted.

I apologize for the commotion in your thread. I'm normally a very low drama guy.

[DMC5180]

not to interrupt any of the drama-llamas, but just an update:
After lubricating all the applicable contact surfaces, front and rear, I i finally took the car for a ride. brakes are noticeably smoother when depressing the pedal and, for now, the rhythmic chirping is gone.

rear greased
53576

now, onto figuring out what causes that occasional grinding when trying to put the car in reverse after driving the car for a while....

Interesting, you actually have the AR spring clips on the Rear pads.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

not to interrupt any of the drama-llamas, but just an update:
After lubricating all the applicable contact surfaces, front and rear, I i finally took the car for a ride. brakes are noticeably smoother when depressing the pedal and, for now, the rhythmic chirping is gone.

rear greased
53576

now, onto figuring out what causes that occasional grinding when trying to put the car in reverse after driving the car for a while....

Coincidentally Jonathon the antirattle clips shown in Novadmc's pic above appear to be our antirattle clips which we supply along with new pins. This looks like an old installation, as the plating is worn off the pins, hence the need for lubrication. The A.R. clips are what normally fixs the chirping noise, not lubing the pins, so that is the little mistery here?
We now return you to our regularly scheduled debates!

[novadmc]

Coincidentally Jonathon the antirattle clips shown in Novadmc's pic above appear to be our antirattle clips which we supply along with new pins. This looks like an old installation, as the plating is worn off the pins, hence the need for lubrication. The A.R. clips are what normally fixs the chirping noise, not lubing the pins, so that is the little mistery here?
We now return you to our regularly scheduled debates!

this car was worked on/restored years ago (before my ownership) by Ed B. and DeLorean One (i believe circa 2000-2001) - for what that's worth - regarding clips in both the rear as shown and the front clips i found installed

[Jonathan]

We have always offered a rear brake hardware kit (#109012G $19.50) that includes the pad pins, clevis clips, and antirattle clips which we modify for this application. They are available with or without the padset included. I'm not sure if other vendors offer something similiar. The front and rear kits are not interchangeable.
Rob


Coincidentally Jonathon the antirattle clips shown in Novadmc's pic above appear to be our antirattle clips which we supply along with new pins. This looks like an old installation, as the plating is worn off the pins, hence the need for lubrication. The A.R. clips are what normally fixs the chirping noise, not lubing the pins, so that is the little mistery here?
We now return you to our regularly scheduled debates!

Well, I've got about 100 miles so far on the car after installing Rob's rear anti-rattle clip kits and the clicking noise went away. Entirely. I have not heard it a single time since putting on the clips. Giddyup.

[Timeless]

Same here - chirping noise eliminated after installing Grady rear caliper kit. Thanks Rob.