Found a few Legend Turbo parts

[2slow]

Hi,

I am not a Delorean owner or enthusiast, but I have a friend that used to work at Legend in Long Island back in the day. We were cleaning out his barn the other day and and stumbled onto a box of some old turbo Delorean parts.

The most interesting one was this intake.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2154/legend1.jpg

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/970/legend2r.jpg
I have never posted to this board before, so if I did not imbed the images properly, here are the links:
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2154/legend1.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/970/legend2r.jpg



He also has this intake which was a very early engineering prototype. It was made of plates welded together (Before the castings were available) It has a "window" put into the top to observe the airflow meter. They were using a meter designed for a normally aspirated engine and were not sure know how it would behave under boost. They built this part to observe if there was flutter going on while on the dyno.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4474/legend3j.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4474/legend3j.jpg

He has some other parts, but they were cut / modified for various tests, so they may not be interesting.

He has had them for a long time, and I think he is ready to sell them. There are not many of these in existence, so it is a bit hard to figure out a fair value for them. I emailed two different Delorean guys I found on the net asking what they thought they were worth. They both replied with offers to buy them. Hard part is working out a fair price.

Do any of the experts here have an opinion as to what they are worth? I want to be fair to the buyer and the seller. I would like to post a for sale thread, but really do not know what to put as a price.

Thanks for any of your ideas!
-Joe

[dvonk]

no idea what they might be worth, but they are totally sweet!

great find! :cool:

[SamHill]

Auction is the only way to find out. Some well-heeled collector will pay you a pretty penny for that and whatever else you have. Oh yes, and tell your friend to please come on dmctalk and tell us some stories. Even old papers and correspondence would be great.

[Malevy]

I'd be interested in these items.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Put the parts on Ebay, advertise on here and on the DML.....

[DMC3165]

I'm also on long island. Not far from where legend originally was. Would be interested in seeing these items in person if they are available.

[DCUK Martin]

I'd be interested in these items.

I bet you would.... :)

[2slow]

SanHill,

I don't know what papers / picture he may have, I will ask him next time I see him. He is moving and I am helping clean out his house / barn. I will be over there later today (he will be at the new place) but I can probably take more pictures, perhaps of the undersides.

DeloreanJoshQ,

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the DML. I think eBay is probably the only fair way to see what they are worth, but I think I should advertise them for a week or so to make sure the Delorean community knows they will be available.

DMC3165,

The parts are in Michigan. We both work in the auto industry. He moved to LI for a stint with Legend back in the Delorean days.

-Joe

[DMC3165]

DMC3165,

The parts are in Michigan. We both work in the auto industry. He moved to LI for a stint with Legend back in the Delorean days.

-Joe

Gottcha, it was a shortsighted assumption on my part thinking they were still local. Please contact me with an inventory of what you have if you are looking to sell these items.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

SanHill,

I don't know what papers / picture he may have, I will ask him next time I see him. He is moving and I am helping clean out his house / barn. I will be over there later today (he will be at the new place) but I can probably take more pictures, perhaps of the undersides.

DeloreanJoshQ,

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the DML. I think eBay is probably the only fair way to see what they are worth, but I think I should advertise them for a week or so to make sure the Delorean community knows they will be available.

DMC3165,

The parts are in Michigan. We both work in the auto industry. He moved to LI for a stint with Legend back in the Delorean days.

-Joe


DML= Delorean Mailing List

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/

or google "Delorean Mailing List" and search your way to post a topic. It will then be emailed to everyone on the list, which is a decent number of people that you would want to reach in the Delorean Community separate from on here....

[Delorean Industries]

Looking forward to bidding on these items and paying a ridiculous amount of money for them. How soon will you have the items listed. I need these for our PRV museum and will pay top dollar at all costs.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

DML= Delorean Mailing List

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/dmcnews/

or google "Delorean Mailing List" and search your way to post a topic. It will then be emailed to everyone on the list, which is a decent number of people that you would want to reach in the Delorean Community separate from on here....

You can also go on Facebook to the Delorean Museum page, Delorean Owners Association Page, along with the rest of the Delorean Club pages if you search "Delorean" on Facebook.....

[sdg3205]

Looking forward to bidding on these items and paying a ridiculous amount of money for them. How soon will you have the items listed. I need these for our PRV museum and will pay top dollar at all costs.

Josh, I'd love to see you guys replicate the legend system (if patents weren't an issue). It was by far the coolest - and legendary (no pun intended) - Delorean turbo.

[Delorean Industries]

Josh, I'd love to see you guys replicate the legend system (if patents weren't an issue). It was by far the coolest - and legendary (no pun intended) - Delorean turbo.

We eventually will. Currently we are focused on safely bringing SPEC III to the market. I have been rather quiet on the forums lately because I do not want to hype what is not openly available past at this point our build car clients in one off form. I know how you guys hate hearing about binnacles and fascias with no results.

[PlutonimicX]

I'm sure the DeLorean Museum would like to use some images:thumbup: Thanks for posting these images by the way, hopefully you may come across something else related to Legend Industries!

[2slow]

Thanks for all of the responses. To be clear, the parts are in Michigan right now, not Long Island. The owner used to work for Legend in LI, but we are both in MI right now.

I went by his place earlier today to move more stuff and snapped a few more pictures of the parts. He only has one cast part, Here are some more images of it.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6127/img1629ks.jpg

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1191/img1630u.jpg

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2884/img1631u.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8744/img1632hy.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8456/img1633xa.jpg

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7904/img1634ih.jpg


On the underside of the cast part it says in paint pen, "for show only". I do not know why that is. Perhaps it was selected as one of the nicer castings to show off, or perhaps not all the holes have been drilled into it. I do not know, but will ask the owner next time I see him.



Here are some more images of the prototype part:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6224/img1635sa.jpg

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/8977/img1636r.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5/img1637e.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1904/img1638aq.jpg

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2311/img1639a.jpg

This part was also in the box. I am not sure if it is Delorean related or not. I will ask the owner next time I see him. It has a part number on it, and one end looks like a part was cut off with a bandsaw.

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/3244/img1640uh.jpg

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/633/img1642z.jpg

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/7327/img1650ig.jpg

As far as selling the parts, I have to talk to the owner. When I took the pictures the first time he seemed ready to sell, but he has not given me the OK to list them anywhere. Being that it is so hard to decide on a price as there are really no comprable sales, I assume they will end up on eBay. I will be sure to let you guys know when they are up.

If there are particular dimensions or photos from different dimensions, let me know.

-Joe

[nullset]

I'd be interested in making a mold and cast of these…...

[2slow]

Took a look on the web and found this site by "PJgrady". The image in the bottow right looks like the custom fabbed intake, just without a window on it.

http://www.pjgrady.co.uk//GenericContent.aspx?PageType=Legend_Industries&ShowContent=Legend_Body_Mods.html

[DMCMW Dave]

The "Spider" part was undoubtedly a Fiat Spider 2000 turbo kit part. Legend also developed and sold that for a while.

[DMC5180]

2slow,

What have is a Diamond in the rough. That cast intake is the holly grail for someone wanting to turbo a Delorean. The prototype is of great historical value also. As much as would love to have them, You should ask the owner if he would consider donating them to the too www.deloreanmuseum.org.

[Malevy]

Is this guy in Michigan..... Bob??

[Ryan King]

Sell them to DPI Josh so he can make batches of kits for the masses.

[Malevy]

Sell them to DPI Josh so he can make batches of kits for the masses.

LEGEND WAS NOT A KIT!!

It will not be financially practical to recreate the Legend engine. You can throw a duplicate intake on a turbo kit, but it will never be the same (at any reasonable cost). I have lots of documents from Legend, and the number of custom parts they built is a lot more than you would expect.

Besides, Tony in Florida claimed in a post on the old system that he reverse engineered 502 to build a copy- It never happened.

I heard rumor that Ed in Europe has made a Legend copy..

Chris in the UK had all of the spare Legend inventory from Rob Grady available to him, and the blown engine from 530, and I don't think he has recreated it (yet).

My point is, there is a good reason no one has done it in 30 years! Why spend that kind of money on a "copy" of 30 year old technology. If you have that kind of money to spend, buy the real thing.

[David T]

As I understood it, there was no "Legend" engine per se, they were still in the process of prototyping and swapping and experimenting with different parts in all of the motors. I am sure Mark and Fred Dellis could elaborate on the details but Legend was still experimenting on the final layout. One of the biggest problems Fred told us about was the transmission. They were able to break the input shafts at will. Remember, Legend had to build a package that DMC could warranty for a reasonable length of time and not expect a lot of claims. The Island turbo kit is the most cost effective conversion still. If you can get a hold of the parts. Any Legend parts would only have value to collectors.
David Teitelbaum

[Malevy]

As I understood it, there was no "Legend" engine per se

The official Legend documents I have contradict this. The Twin Turbo design was pretty much complete.

[DMC5180]

+1 Mark.

Visually speaking, the V intake is the centerpiece of a LEGEND TWIN TURBO Car. Mark has the the ONLY running car in existence with an original Cast LI intake. 502 was, as we all know, a welded prototype.

If your going to spend a RIDICULOUS amount money for those parts for the purpose of replicating them. You might as well just take the money and spend it on the design and tooling process for that purpose. Of coarse thats not the same thing as being able to say "I HAVE AN ORIGINAL LI Intake. As for having DPI Josh replicate it for one of his turbo systems, that would be cool. But he doesn't need an original LI "V" intake for that purpose and it would not work quite the way you think anyway. You can pretty much make a near replica from photographs. The work can be done using a Cad program like "Solid Works" and a Stereo lithography rapid prototyping machine to turn your design into a physical prototype. Investment casting requires multiple tools. You can't simply take the outside profile and duplicate it for a mold core. Aluminum castings shrink as they cool. Generally when casting with aluminum the investment lost wax core needs to be scaled a little larger than the part you are creating.

From what I've heard DMCEU Edd has recreated the V intake for a Replica LI system. I believe he bought the The LI mock-up display engine from D1. Ed B. had a replicated V intake made with a D1 logo on it and turned the mock up into running engine for a number of years. It had issues as Stephen W. will a test too.

Mark, what version would you call what you have with the pontoon mounted intercoolers?

Sorry if if this is starting slide off topic a bit.

[Malevy]

Mark has the the ONLY running car in existence with with an original Cast LI intake. 502 was, as we all know, a welded prototype.

There were 3 versions of the "V" intake. The welded one, like on 502. The "production" cast one, which was silver and had the words "Twin Turbo" on it along with the Legend logo. This is the one being discussed in this thread. There are a number of these "in the wild", and it is by far the most common Legend part in the hands of private collectors. It is also the intake that was on the "show engine" as pictured in SSI- but painted black.

The intake on my car is cast, but it is BLACK, and does NOT have the Legend logo on it. It is the only one of it's kind that I have ever seen. It was likely an early cast prototype of the part that ended up on this engine during dyno testing.



From what I've heard DMCEU Edd has recreated the V intake for a Replica LI system. I believe he bought the The LI mock-up display engine from D1. Ed B. had a replicated V intake made with a D1 logo on it and turned the mock up into running engine for a number of years. It had issues as Stephen W. will a test too.

The mock-up engine was a 2.7L "empty block". All of the internals were removed to make it lighter for transport. This engine is by NO MEANS a Legend twin turbo engine... Legend just took a spare block they had laying around, and slapped the external parts on it to look pretty. All of the important stuff was missing, and Ed B made a unsuccessful attempt at recreating them. If Ed U used this engine as his baseline for reproducing the Legend design, it is all that much less accurate.




Mark, what version would you call what you have with the pontoon mounted intercoolers?


The inter-coolers I have were installed by the PO (not Legend). Although he had all of the Legend intake parts (inter-cooler, air filter boxes, piping), he decided to go with the pontoon design to get better air flow. When I purchased the car, it was my intent to restore it to the "original design", but after considering the performance impact (and discussing it with Fred) I decided to stick with this setup. It gets much better airflow than the original design. Legend could not mount the inter-coolers in the pontoons in their design because they had appearance restrictions set on them by JZD. They did the best they could with the limitations they had, but the airflow through the inter-coolers on 502 is not at all optimum. Too many bends, with very small pipes.

[David T]

I was going by what Fred Dellis told us when he was the invited speaker at a DMA event. He was not able to say exactly what the final configuration was since they were still mixing and matching parts. No two Legend engines were the same. They were getting the trans input shaft problem under control when everything stopped. The paperwork may have been deliberately done in order to show they were "on schedule" when they were not and trying desperately to finalize the upgrades. As is usually the case everyone was under severe time constraints to get things done and/or get money for work already done. As an aside, I thought the Ed B Legend engine was empty and Ed put non-Legend parts in it to make it work. It was meant to be only a display. That's why it never ran right.
David Teitelbaum

[DMC5180]

Mark,

I was not aware of the 3 version intake you have. Good to know. I was aware that the the D1 mockup engine was a shell. I was speaking in terms of the external components being replicated. Not the internal modifications required.


It would nice if the Current owner of these intakes and former employee of LI would give us some added history info.

[Malevy]

That is the point.. They is just as much engineering inside of the engine as outside. If you want a "high performance twin turbo PRV" engine, with that V intake on top of it- I am sure it can be done (for way too much money).. But that does not make it anything related to Legend.

Efforts within the community are better spent on making more modern high-performance solutions. Forced induction is nice, but have the modern fuel and spark control to go with it.

[DMC5180]

Efforts within the community are better spent on making more modern high-performance solutions. Forced induction is nice, but have the modern fuel and spark control to go with it.

Agreed.

[john 05141]

[QUOTE=Malevy;19740]LEGEND WAS NOT A KIT!!

I heard rumor that Ed in Europe has made a Legend copy..

Ed did not built that. I for got his name, but some guy in Holland made this, but I think Ed was involved with help. He had quite a struggle to make this this thing work but he pulled it off. I saw it at a meeting 2 years ago. here is a picture. (cell phone picture, sorry)

John

[DMCFL Tony]

LEGEND WAS NOT A KIT!!

It will not be financially practical to recreate the Legend engine. You can throw a duplicate intake on a turbo kit, but it will never be the same (at any reasonable cost). I have lots of documents from Legend, and the number of custom parts they built is a lot more than you would expect.

Besides, Tony in Florida claimed in a post on the old system that he reverse engineered 502 to build a copy- It never happened.

I heard rumor that Ed in Europe has made a Legend copy..

Chris in the UK had all of the spare Legend inventory from Rob Grady available to him, and the blown engine from 530, and I don't think he has recreated it (yet).

My point is, there is a good reason no one has done it in 30 years! Why spend that kind of money on a "copy" of 30 year old technology. If you have that kind of money to spend, buy the real thing.


Marc is right, it was not a kit.

I did learn a lot from working on 502 when I owned it and even more form spending time with Fred Dellis.

It was my intention to make a Twin Turbo DeLorean to offer to customers and still is but the economy put a hold on the project.

I also had to consider the Stage III project and where the Twin Turbo would fall into the mix.

The production intake that I own is pictured below.

Tony

[tjd]

Well I hope this project is picked up again sometime in the future, as I don't have any interest in the "tuner" exhaust modifications that are all the rage now. However I'd be quite interested in a period correct twin turbo set up that has similar asthetics and ideally functionality of the Legends Twin Turbo.

[content22207]

Efforts within the community are better spent on making more modern high-performance solutions.

He says in a community where owners spend up to $60,000 bolting replica movie props onto their cars....

Bill Robertson
#5939

[r00b]

[QUOTE=Malevy;19740]LEGEND WAS NOT A KIT!!

Ed did not built that. I for got his name, but some guy in Holland made this, but I think Ed was involved with help. He had quite a struggle to make this this thing work but he pulled it off. I saw it at a meeting 2 years ago. here is a picture. (cell phone picture, sorry)

John

This is the one they are talking about.

[DMC3165]

Speaking of #530, Rob was nice enough to let me take a few pics of it a while back when I was there. I'd like to grab it for myself but I think that would be very unlikely. Here are a few pics. Enjoy.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[Dracula]

He says in a community where owners spend up to $60,000 bolting replica movie props onto their cars....

Bill Robertson
#5939

I've never agreed with anything you've ever said half as much as I agree with this and I know you and I both have designs for a red/burgundy interior. I'm glad to see that someone else realizes the futility of arguing the relation of cost-to-common-sense in this community.

[content22207]

It is reasonable for owners with the resources, and the historical interest, to build "what if" Legend cars, much the way this fellow built a Tucker II "Prototype":


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iYNmVRy-lk

Owners simply looking for any turbocharged upgrade, not a historically faithful interpretation, should look elsewhere.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Malevy]

The production intake that I own is pictured below.



This is the "common" intake I was talking about, and also the one that started this thread.. However, it looks like yours has been painted. This is the same intake that was on the blown engine from 530, as well as the other "dyno" engine that I think is still on a shelf. There seem to be a number of these floating around.



Ed did not built that. I for got his name, but some guy in Holland made this, but I think Ed was involved with help. He had quite a struggle to make this this thing work but he pulled it off. I saw it at a meeting 2 years ago. here is a picture. (cell phone picture, sorry)


Thanks for the photo.. The engine looks like a good reproduction. The car itself is missing a number of legend-like parts. Are there any public specifications on what was done?

[john 05141]

His English skills does not allow him to be active on this forum. But at the old forum Welmoed was kind enough to make some translations for this guy.
John

[dvonk]

It is reasonable for owners with the resources, and the historical interest, to build "what if" Legend cars, much the way this fellow built a Tucker II "Prototype"


totally off topic, but anyone else notice how the owner of the "Tucker II Prototype" said it was built "exactly to the designer's prints," and yet the rear half of the car is just a 1971-72 Buick Riviera with random shit attached (e.g., rear fins, fender skirts, etc.)?

the front of the vehicle proves that he has the the skills to fabricate something original, i wonder why the cop-out on the rear?

[content22207]

Designers do not always design the *WHOLE* car.

At DCS'04 Jim Prentice told that when trying to build the first pilot cars in Dunmurry, they made the unpleasant discovery that no one had bothered to design the interior from the seats back. The pedal cluster was thrown together in about an hour by Prentice himself. There were a lot of loose ends on our own cars.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DMCFL Tony]

This is the "common" intake I was talking about, and also the one that started this thread.. However, it looks like yours has been painted. This is the same intake that was on the blown engine from 530, as well as the other "dyno" engine that I think is still on a shelf. There seem to be a number of these floating around.



Thanks for the photo.. The engine looks like a good reproduction. The car itself is missing a number of legend-like parts. Are there any public specifications on what was done?

Marc,

I'm not sure which would have been the production or final approved design, yours without the Legend logo or my common one with. The finish on mine was black but needed freshening so I painted and sanded off the raised lettering to look like the NADA show engine that DeLorean One sold recently.

Hope to see you in Texas next month.

Tony

[dvonk]

hm, so the guy who decided to create this 'prototype' took some liberties with the portions of the vehicle that my have not been in the original design plans.

[David T]

I would guess part of the "loose ends problem" was due to the fact that multiple entities did the engineering. You had a design stylist, Lotus, JZD, and I am sure many others with overlapping areas and some that didn't overlap. DMC was supposed to oversee the project in it's entirety to coordinate all of it. With the tight time constraints (they were building the factory as they were designing the car) parts already being purchased (the engine package) and other design requirements, it is a wonder they accomplished what they did in the time frame they had. Add to that quality issues, money problems, and running production changes, just managing DMC must have been challenging with all of the faculties worldwide, time zones, currency exchange, etc! Hard to nit-pick about some minor problems which were able to be quickly resolved.
David Teitelbaum