That smoke looks cool.... WAIT!

[Nuclearbacon]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most importantly, the car is fine and no fire. (deep breath of relief)

I was literally a mile away from home after a 250+ mile drive (the furthest I've gone in years) when my lovely girlfriend says that exact quote:

"That smoke looks really cool how the sun is.... WAIT!"

I look behind her and I see the smallest tuft of white smoke and I smell a popcorn type smell. I turn off my radio (the only electronics I recently installed) and it does not change. I turn the car off at the stop light. smoke stops. Fire it up and race home but the smoke had basically stopped. I get home safe.

Before I tell you what I find, let me tell you of another weird thing that I believe are pieces to this puzzle.

The drive was in the middle of the day, but I drive over the Santa Cruz Mountains and it's semi dark and I use headlights for safety, right? (headlights were only used on the 20 mile stretch of the SC mountains)

When I was coming home over the same mountain, it was high 70's outside, but not hot. I had my headlights on and after about 10 minutes or so (maybe less) I needed to go into the right hand lane, so I use my blinker, but my dash blinker light wasn't coming on. I can see the turn signal in the reflection of the car in front of me so they're working, but my dash light isn't. Ok I think, new bulb, no worries. (it functioned all day before failing the first time)

At one point I turn my headlights off (at the summit, where its bright) and I had just been using turn signals as usual knowing they functioned (left turn signal light never failed), but then my turn signal dash light came back! Weird!

Going back to the night before, we took a little drive (headlights on) and I thought I smelled popcorn. We had also had a rainstorm recently and I thought it was something that had gotten wet but was now drying with a weird smell, who knows. So when I smelled it before I saw the smoke, I figured it was a reoccurring smell, but not an issue, but I was still ever mindful of my cars vital systems.

Back to current time, I get the car home safe and pull the rear passenger electrical wood cover off, and instantly I can smell the popcorn. I poke around and my fan fail fix wires had melted together and almost shorted. The smell was the wires getting hot and melting! (see below for pictures)

Both my fans were working, I have not added anything besides my radio, and I am using the radio circuit (green wire behind the Craig radio), I don't think it has anything to do with my radio.

It seems to have been when my headlights were on and the fans kicked on. The fan fail wires were tucked back and over themselves in a tight configuration, but they shouldn't have melted...right??

Now my amazing DeLorean detectives, has something failed? Was my electrical overloaded somehow? Did my wires...fail? old?

Both fans functioned and always have. The electrical was "revamped" in 2011 with new relays, but nothing has been touched otherwise. Car is factory. I leave my fuse cover on my fuses, but I've heard to remove it. None of my fuses or sockets look melted

To recap, my main points are:

-Only happened when headlights were on
-Only happened when fans were running
-Right turn signal bulb not functioning then functioning? (possibly after fans turned back off?)
-Right turn signal bulb non functioning when headlights were on

Would Dave's Solid-State Fan Relay help with the heat? Is there always a large amount of heat and it finally got too hot? (I know it gets warm but!)

Slightly worried but also curious!

Thank you for reading!

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Electrical/36F568F7-67DB-4461-BC4E-798CB900740A.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Electrical/5296a242-2b52-4898-89dc-b3d78b72a83b.jpg

[Bitsyncmaster]

That pin on the fan fail jumpers carries the current of both fans. It could have been a bad connection but I've seen so many of those jumpers fail when your still running OEM fans. I don't think your headlights had anything to do with the jumper burning.

Your socket may also have melting damage.

[Nuclearbacon]

Dave! Ok! Since I'm here, what is the best replacement for my situation? Bigger gauge wire? Your Solid state Fan Relay?

I do have OEM fans

[dmcnc]

I would verify what amperage those fans are pulling before you troubleshoot any further.


Dave! Ok! Since I'm here, what is the best replacement for my situation? Bigger gauge wire? Your Solid state Fan Relay?

I do have OEM fans

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I would verify what amperage those fans are pulling before you troubleshoot any further.

Yes check the fan voltage if you can but be aware the fan fail link link was never intended as a permanent fix.
They need to be inspected annually at least-especially before the summer season. A loose or deteriated connection here will always cause a meltdown over time. This was one of the issues that the Fanzilla module developed in the 90's addressed and solved with better connections and even teflon coated wires. The other was sequencing the fans and compressor engagement into three separate events to reduce voltage spikes. They were almost bulletproof. No need for wimpy fan fail links back then.
Rob

[Nuclearbacon]

Yes check the fan voltage if you can but be aware the fan fail link link was never intended as a permanent fix.
They need to be inspected annually at least-especially before the summer season. A loose or deteriated connection here will always cause a meltdown over time. This was one of the issues that the Fanzilla module developed in the 90's addressed and solved with better connections and even teflon coated wires. The other was sequencing the fans and compressor engagement into three separate events to reduce voltage spikes. They were almost bulletproof. No need for wimpy fan fail links back then.
Rob

That sounds great! I would love to pick one of these up! If these are not available what can I do instead? Just make good quality fail link and check it regularly? If that's the fix... but not a fix... ?

[Chris 16409]

That sounds great! I would love to pick one of these up! If these are not available what can I do instead? Just make good quality fail link and check it regularly? If that's the fix... but not a fix... ?

I would get Dave's solid state fan and fan fail relays. They are the modern fix for the original wiring. Getting new fans wouldn't hurt either. Most vendors sell low current fans, Toby, Josh, Hervey, etc.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Dave! Ok! Since I'm here, what is the best replacement for my situation? Bigger gauge wire? Your Solid state Fan Relay?

I do have OEM fans

You can check the current but I would bet you will read around 15 amps each when the engine is running. You would need a clamp on type DC amp meter. So as Rob said, that pin connection has to be very good with 30 amps of fan current.

I always recommend getting a vendors lower power fans which about drops the current in half.

Larger wire will just increase the currents because it provides less voltage drop.

[Nuclearbacon]

Ok. So the fix is to get low draw fans, even though mine cool very well, they draw too much and need to go.

Then I should get Daves solid state fan relay.

Until then, I will check out my socket and make sure it is not melted and make a new fan fail link.

I wonder if getting a new strong battery like I did recently stressed a weak link? IE: melty melty?

[sdg3205]

Many thanks for your input.

In soviet Russia, thanks input you!

[Bitsyncmaster]

I wonder if getting a new strong battery like I did recently stressed a weak link? IE: melty melty?

When the fans get higher voltage the current increases but I would not think a new battery would change the voltage much with the engine running.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

That sounds great! I would love to pick one of these up! If these are not available what can I do instead? Just make good quality fail link and check it regularly? If that's the fix... but not a fix... ?
Sadly Fanzillas are NLA but Dave's fix's work well from what I know. Alternatively if you treat the fan fail link as a 3year 30K mainenance item they are unlikely to give you any trouble except for the voltage spiking issue. As for high efficiency fans I could never get my head completely around them. Yes they are strong enough to cool the engine under most conditions but simply don't push enough air to keep the condensor sufficiently cool. If you use A/C in the summer you will lose about 10 degrees of colder air at the vents at about 90 fairnheight. That should tell you something about their CFM output compaired to the stock fans. The NOS cooling fans have also been extremely reliable over the years. Although I will install HE fans I don't really consider them an upgrade.
Rob

[Ron]

$.02
Looks like the jumpers themselves (solder terminals on, crimps sux), or a bad connection where they plug into the socket. Either would cause it to melt there.
I'd clean and check the tension in the socket, check the amp draw before getting fans (...and get Dave's unit ;-).



In soviet Russia, thanks input you!LOL...but it's Vietnam

[bfloyd]

I'm running the original factory fans combined with Dave's Solid State Fan Fail unit with the small fuses on the top. Haven't had an issue with the fans since I put it in.

[Nuclearbacon]

Got some pics of the carnage.

Before and after!

Before:
http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Electrical/null-7.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Electrical/null-6.jpg



aaaaand after:

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Electrical/8DDBE94C-5C24-4C3F-8272-099569B1E351.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Electrical/DDE6F4C0-8B47-451F-AAB0-B437B2B526A4.jpg

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Electrical/AD9ACCB0-8B61-4377-8A2A-D55936F71305.jpg

Those fuses worked great!! Haha

I'm going to order a new Fan Fail Relay Socket. Should I redo the wiring at all? This circuit has me super nervous. I hear I should replace my fans. But the replacements suck (ha!) then I hear I should leave my stock fans (but they could be drawing more power then they should because they're old?) and get Daves SS relay for the fans (Which I want!)

I'd like to leave my stock fans because they cool very well, and I believe I'd like to get Dave's SS fan relay and ... go from there.

I just want:

1) no fires
2) for it to work
3) the correct fix.

Should I be ordering anything else besides the Relay socket? Placing the order today. car is down for another week.

[Bitsyncmaster]

It looks like one of the pins for one fan also got hot. Now that may be one fan drawing more power or that pin did not make a good connection. I've not heard anyone complain that lower power fans don't cool enough once they get them installed.

You will need the relay socket "pins" along with the socket. Those pins are "open barrel" type so you need that type of crimper also. I don't think you can get a blue socket, only black seem to be available.

[Nuclearbacon]

It looks like one of the pins for one fan also got hot. Now that may be one fan drawing more power or that pin did not make a good connection. I've not heard anyone complain that lower power fans don't cool enough once they get them installed.

You will need the relay socket "pins" along with the socket. Those pins are "open barrel" type so you need that type of crimper also. I don't think you can get a blue socket, only black seem to be available.

Someday Dave I'm going to buy you the best damn pizza you've ever had my friend. Thank you for your response!

I bet I wiggled the cable in there and moved the connection, then went on a 3 hour drive in heat. It was probably me somehow. I have an open barrel crimper, I'll have to get some terminals though.

I really want to keep my stock fans, but I understand. I'll work on getting the relay block replaced, and new open barrel connections (where need be). I'm headed to Iceland next week, I'll probably place the order for the relay block then order fans once I get back (and if I still have $$ hehe)

Does anyone know what size the open barrel terminals are? I'd like to order a few to have on hand. Thank you!!

[mburshtain]

I had the same exact issue like you are facing and luckily DMC Huston found a new blue one and shipped it to me. Give them a call or email them as it's not available online.
Also, take a look at this post - http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7813-My-melted-Fan-Fail-Relay

I'm running the original stock fans while using Dave's Electronic fused Fan Fail unit and Solid State Fan Relay and it's working great.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Someday Dave I'm going to buy you the best damn pizza you've ever had my friend. Thank you for your response!

I bet I wiggled the cable in there and moved the connection, then went on a 3 hour drive in heat. It was probably me somehow. I have an open barrel crimper, I'll have to get some terminals though.

I really want to keep my stock fans, but I understand. I'll work on getting the relay block replaced, and new open barrel connections (where need be). I'm headed to Iceland next week, I'll probably place the order for the relay block then order fans once I get back (and if I still have $$ hehe)

Does anyone know what size the open barrel terminals are? I'd like to order a few to have on hand. Thank you!!

These are the pins I use for 12 AWG wire.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/60253-2-CUT-STRIP/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvcRsgoMFfeP2cWrCxy2Lf85cqnk1gXsHA%3d

These are the pins I use for 16 AWG wire.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-AMP/42100-2-CUT-STRIP/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvcRsgoMFfeP6jRCg761FR46ZpksRi0Mew%3d

By the way, when you install new pins, they are very tight until you pull the relay a few times. Not bad with just one new pin but with all 5 new it's hard to pull without a relay puller. So before you drop the relay bank, stick a relay in and out of the socket a few times.

[81dmc]

Got some pics of the carnage.

Before and after!

Before:
http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Electrical/null-7.jpg

aaaaand after:

http://i528.photobucket.com/albums/dd329/nuclearbacon2008/DeLorean%2010588/Electrical/8DDBE94C-5C24-4C3F-8272-099569B1E351.jpg




Uhh, the relay next to the fan fail fix doesn't exactly look great either. You should also replace all the NOS relays with Bosch ones for the added insurance.

Also, why are you even keeping the fan fail socket? Just directly solder the fuse links to the wires to avoid any future headaches.

[Mario]

Larger wire will just increase the currents because it provides less voltage drop.

I'm sorry, but are you saying that larger wire will make the problem worse?
Bigger wire is always better because it has lower resistance... the calculation for power dissipated in a resistor is I^2 * R. If you can halve your wire resistance, the power dissipated in those wires will only be half as much. If you can halve the current going through those wires, though, by buying better fans, then the wires will only have to dissipate 25% as much power as before. Doing both would be best, obviously.
Of course, the spade terminals probably have much more resistance than those wires do, but it's silly to say that larger wire will make the problem worse. Or if I misunderstood you, then my apologies.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I'm sorry, but are you saying that larger wire will make the problem worse?
Bigger wire is always better because it has lower resistance... the calculation for power dissipated in a resistor is I^2 * R. If you can halve your wire resistance, the power dissipated in those wires will only be half as much. If you can halve the current going through those wires, though, by buying better fans, then the wires will only have to dissipate 25% as much power as before. Doing both would be best, obviously.
Of course, the spade terminals probably have much more resistance than those wires do, but it's silly to say that larger wire will make the problem worse. Or if I misunderstood you, then my apologies.

Your correct that larger wire will make the wire run cooler. It also reduces the voltage drop over the wire and therefor you get more voltage at the fans. Current draw of the fans goes up as voltage is increased. My OEM fan I use for testing will draw 19.6 amps at 15 volts.