SPLIT FROM -- Carburetor Troubles...Car is Completely Useless

[DeLoreanGirl]

I purchased my dream car not too long ago, but now it's useless because of the carburetor. When I got it, the car ran rough. I took it to a shop and they said they rebuilt the carburetor. It runs better now, but it won't shift gears. There's a problem with the linkage. The guy I bought the car from says it's not the carburetor that was on the car when he sold it and that the shop must have switched it. The shop denies this.

I was advised by another forum member to contact Bill Robertson and he said that it has the wrong carburetor and that he wasn't going to help me, that it's all the previous owner's fault. Bill was completely useless, telling me a bunch of things that I didn't understand before blowing me off.

I don't know what to do. The only thing people agree on is that I have the wrong carburetor and it won't work for this car. I'm considering bringing it back to stock, but I don't have the parts. This is my first car at 18 and I just want to use it.

[DMCVegas]

This is precisely why I demanded a how-to guide for assistance on these conversions. Because I knew this was going to start happening once Bill was out of the picture for support. Either because he died, or he'd outright refuse support people.

You've got 3 ooptions here. The first being an an Alpine Holley Carburetor Kit from JL Engineering over in the UK. However, there are two teeny little catches:

You will need to source a rare intake manifold for the kit. Contact them for further instructions.
I don't even know for certain if this kit is still available.


Second option is to return to stock. Every once in a while someone sells a K-Jet kit. I'll have one myself for sale, but not for a couple of years. Even then with all of the cores, you're looking at around $2,700 or so if you don't buy your own specialty tools for all the parts needed.

Third is that you could convert to EFI.

Better question yet is have you gotten in touch with any other local DeLorean owners? If not, why?

Whatever you choose, best of luck to you.

[dmruschell]

There are more options than the 3 listed above.

There is no "correct carburetor" for the DeLorean. The one that Bill uses is a 2 barrel motorcraft carburetor. It can be swapped out for a 2 barrel Holley in a matter of minutes. As long as they're tuned correctly, either will work fine. (People run Edelbrock/Carter, Holley, and Quadrajet carbs on old muscle cars all the time, and they're 3 completely different carbs. As long as the carb is properly tuned, the engine will run fine.)

So, figure out what carb you have and how to tune it. Edelbrock has carb tuning videos on their website that explain how to do a basic idle tuning on their carbs. The same basic principles apply to any carb. If your only car is carbureted, you need to learn how to mess with it. It's not as difficult as it may seem. If the engine runs well with the carb that's on it, your problem lies elsewhere.

Does it shift into reverse or any forward gears? Refine your description of the problem so we can narrow down on the problem.

[DMCVegas]

There are more options than the 3 listed above.

Assuming that you still want a fuel delivery system with no guidance whatsoever as to it's maintenance or tuning procedures, then yes, you certainly do have more than 3 options here. Given this particular vehicle's current issues (or any other that may in the future have relatable issues stemming from failed carb conversions for that matter), I seriously doubt that I would just jump right out into the unknown yet again. Hence the 3 options given come with either outright documentation or a vast, and redundant support network to aid with installation & proper tuning.

But there's also a whole lotta things here don't ad up, and just don't sit right with me...

OP states that they sent the vehicle with the original carb in to a mechanic recently who rebuilt it. But then has some weird story that the mechanic may have swapped it out without authorization... yet a quick Google search for "DeLoreanGirl" directs me to a thread over on Today where OP stated that almost 4 months ago on July 7th they themselves swapped out the carburetor in question for a replacement...

Next is a Talk thread on 9-23 stating that she's having issues with the carb. But then 2 days later OP claims on Today that they went to a car show. Then another a month later. Then there is the request to ask Bill for help on Talk, but there is also a public shaming of Bill by OP over on Today...

So, what exactly is going on here?

At this point I myself don't even know if Angela Nickelson is even real. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if OP is Chad with yet another screen name, this time seeking help as an 18 year old damsel in distress. Because who can resist that? I mean, I don't have a beef with Chad, and I hope the car in question gets successfully fixed. If I had the information he and/or OP needs, I'd gladly post it (but I don't do carbs). But in order to fix anything, a person needs the whole story, and I just don't know if we're actually getting that here. Just saying...

[dmruschell]

Assuming that you still want a fuel delivery system with no guidance whatsoever as to it's maintenance or tuning procedures, then yes, you certainly do have more than 3 options here. Given this particular vehicle's current issues (or any other that may in the future have relatable issues stemming from failed carb conversions for that matter), I seriously doubt that I would just jump right out into the unknown yet again. Hence the 3 options given come with either outright documentation or a vast, and redundant support network to aid with installation & proper tuning.

Your viewpoint doesn't make sense. With any if the 3 options listed, tuning will still be needed. Kjet has a duel muxture adjustment, EFI requires some skill to get running correctly, and finding and tuning the rare carb setup will be more difficult than tuning what is on the car now. Running a carb doesn't mean that there is no documentation or guidance. Running a carb means that you just have to find the documentation on the carb you're using.

I've used Holleys, Quadrajets, Edelbrock/Carter AFBs, Carter WCFBs, and a Carter WCFB 2x4 setup. The same basic principles apply to all of them. Documebtation on carb swaps isn't needed because they're simple to figure out and the info is already out there.

[Andrew]

Assuming that you still want a fuel delivery system with no guidance whatsoever as to it's maintenance or tuning procedures, then yes, you certainly do have more than 3 options here. Given this particular vehicle's current issues (or any other that may in the future have relatable issues stemming from failed carb conversions for that matter), I seriously doubt that I would just jump right out into the unknown yet again. Hence the 3 options given come with either outright documentation or a vast, and redundant support network to aid with installation & proper tuning.

But there's also a whole lotta things here don't ad up, and just don't sit right with me...

OP states that they sent the vehicle with the original carb in to a mechanic recently who rebuilt it. But then has some weird story that the mechanic may have swapped it out without authorization... yet a quick Google search for "DeLoreanGirl" directs me to a thread over on Today where OP stated that almost 4 months ago on July 7th they themselves swapped out the carburetor in question for a replacement...

Next is a Talk thread on 9-23 stating that she's having issues with the carb. But then 2 days later OP claims on Today that they went to a car show. Then another a month later. Then there is the request to ask Bill for help on Talk, but there is also a public shaming of Bill by OP over on Today...

So, what exactly is going on here?

At this point I myself don't even know if Angela Nickelson is even real. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if OP is Chad with yet another screen name, this time seeking help as an 18 year old damsel in distress. Because who can resist that? I mean, I don't have a beef with Chad, and I hope the car in question gets successfully fixed. If I had the information he and/or OP needs, I'd gladly post it (but I don't do carbs). But in order to fix anything, a person needs the whole story, and I just don't know if we're actually getting that here. Just saying...

Not to rain on your conspiracy theory parade, but she's a real owner. She was at the DMCMW open house. I even saw her and Chad at the same time. And no, I'm not Chad either...maybe Ron is Chad. :-)

[Jonathan]

If I was this person and the condition of the car is indeed as described, I would be finding a lawyer to go over the details with. Not because of Chad specifically, or even that it is a DeLorean in question. Only because you paid for something you did not receive and that needs to be addressed. In the courts or otherwise. As an 18-year old, I would also suggest you speak to your parents or other legal guardians and/or financial supporters and get their help and advice.

The people on this forum have more than enough knowledge to sort out just about any issue on the cars. Current condition and details on the car and its troubles is necessary though. Not from a "how you got here" perspective, only just to help figure out what is going on and what it will take to sort it out.

[Michael]

If I was this person and the condition of the car is indeed as described, I would be finding a lawyer to go over the details with. Not because of Chad specifically, or even that it is a DeLorean in question. Only because you paid for something you did not receive and that needs to be addressed. In the courts or otherwise. As an 18-year old, I would also suggest you speak to your parents or other legal guardians and/or financial supporters and get their help and advice.

The people on this forum have more than enough knowledge to sort out just about any issue on the cars. Current condition and details on the car and its troubles is necessary though. Not from a "how you got here" perspective, only just to help figure out what is going on and what it will take to sort it out.

Getting a lawyer is just throwing money away. All used car sales are pretty much as is with no warranty implied unless it is mentioned in the bill of sale or in form of a signed contract. In a case like this, you will spend more on a lawyer and years of limbo with little to no outcome that benefits anyone but the lawyer.

[Ron]

And no, I'm not Chad either...maybe Ron is Chad. :-)Wait!...I thought I was supposed to be Bill, and you Chad???

P.S. ...Ya know it's been a long time since I've banned a real person (other than a fake bot ;-)....

[Andrew]

Wait!...I thought I was supposed to be Bill, and you Chad???

P.S. ...Ya know it's been a long time since I've banned a real person (other than a fake bot ;-)....

Woops, I meant Chad is Robert ;-)

[Farrar]

If Ron is Bill, and Chad is Robert, and Andrew is Chad ... am I still me? If not, can I convince whoever it is to go to the gym? I'd like these last twenty pounds to be gone by the time I'm me again, thanks. :P

[DeLoreanGirl]

Yes, I am a real person. I bought the car from Chad and I believe him when he says that wasn't the carburetor that it left with. I think the shop sent the carburetor out to be rebuilt and got this one back in exchange and are now denying it.

Chad told me as well that he didn't make the linkage setup for it. It came from Bill, so it made sense to ask him for help. Chad had told me that Bill wouldn't help, but I hoped he would be able to fix my linkage issue. Chad was right. Bill refused to help, even though it's his setup. I don't know what it's supposed to be like and can't fix it myself. I get the idea of what it should do, I think, but I don't know how to make it work like it's supposed to.

Since Bill has said that he's not helping because it's Chad's fault, I didn't know where else to turn to. I just want to enjoy my car.

[Farrar]

I also offered to help you, but you didn't contact me after I gave you Bill's contact info, so I assumed that you had the information you needed.


I didn't know where else to turn to. I just want to enjoy my car.

If this is the attitude you gave Bill, then I'm not surprised he had little time for you. He's not going to explain stuff to you like you're five. He's going to assume you have done your homework and just need him to point you in the right direction.

If you refuse help from those who offer it, and then complain about the help you get when you ask, and instead of trying to troubleshoot you throw your hands up and complain that everything sucks and nothing is right, then you may find that people become reticent to offer advice.

Perhaps a 36-year-old non-running antique sports car from a company that folded in 1982 was not a good choice for your first vehicle. But then I am not young enough to know everything.

[DMCVegas]

Not to rain on your conspiracy theory parade, but she's a real owner. She was at the DMCMW open house. I even saw her and Chad at the same time. And no, I'm not Chad either...maybe Ron is Chad. :-)

Well then I stand corrected, and I offer my sincerest apologies. The conflicting reports however still stand, and I'm not even going to get involved in on that dog pile.



Your viewpoint doesn't make sense.

On the contrary, I simply don't believe that you're seeing things from the correct viewpoint. Allow me to explain: Remove yourself and your skills and knowledge from the situation, and see things from the position of a person who doesn't have as much past experience, if any at all, with fuel delivery systems. With all three of the other systems I mentioned, these offer both large, diverse support groups, and even hard documentation in print to guide with the installation & tuning for the systems. This is the kind of support that an owner, or even an unfamiliar mechanic needs. Something sorely missing from these ad hoc carb kits. But we'll touch more on that later.

First, let's address the 3 systems in question.



With any if the 3 options listed, tuning will still be needed.

No argument there, but I've no idea where in the world you're getting the idea that I'm claiming that there is none needed.



Kjet has a duel muxture adjustment

What in the world are you talking about? Stock K-Jetronic has only a single adjustment screw. The flow rates which make up the engine's fuel map were already pre-determined by BOSCH, and are executed by the components working in tandem. Tuning the system itself is actually extremely simple. The big problem is really that most owners simply refuse to follow the instructions contained inside of the Workshop Manual to apply a precise tune. But still, there is only a single adjustment screw. If you're tinkering with more than that, you're doing something wrong.



EFI requires some skill to get running correctly

Certainly it isn't a "Plug & Play" solution per se, but the tuning process really isn't that hard. The most difficult portion of an EFI installation (which I myself will most likely be undertaking) is simply wiring up the sensors and components. That is complicated because it requires the individual to possess the ability to read schematics, use a multimeter, and have the tools and know-how of how to terminate the needed engine harness. But tuning? Nope. Aside from some pretty damn good documentation of performing a conversion and how to use the software, you have support from other owners and the entire aftermarket community at large. Even then there are many tuner shops that for a fee will perform the tuning on a Megasquirt (or other EFI system) for you. So tuning EFI to create your fuel map is literally the least of your worries.



finding and tuning the rare carb setup will be more difficult than tuning what is on the car now. Running a carb doesn't mean that there is no documentation or guidance. Running a carb means that you just have to find the documentation on the carb you're using.

It might be more difficult, but there is documentation available for the installation of the Holley unit and adapting it to the PRV. And that's a whole helluva lot more than I can say about these homemade conversions. As for guidance, let's talk about that...



I've used Holleys, Quadrajets, Edelbrock/Carter AFBs, Carter WCFBs, and a Carter WCFB 2x4 setup. The same basic principles apply to all of them. Documebtation on carb swaps isn't needed because they're simple to figure out and the info is already out there.

Again this is how it may be easy for you, but that doesn't apply to everyone else. Just as you might be more comfortable with carburetors, I'm more comfortable with mechanical fuel injection and EFI because they're what I grew up on. They're what I know. Tuning a carb is a helluva lot more than just listening to it. Which for the record, you cannot do. If you could, Delco, Rotunda, and MoPar would have sold acoustic tuning devices a long time ago. You have to set your mixtures for idle, fast idle, and WOT. And that's after you properly jet the whole damn thing. Otherwise you end up with lean idles with high NOx levels, and ok fast idle. OR you have ok idle emissions and high HCs on the fast idle. Because as it turns out, despite your engine type, you always have to have some sort of fuel map for the thing. And even if you don't care about emissions, with those kind of results, you still risk internal damage to the engine.

But that is your knowledge. Mine tells me that rather than having to tear a carb apart to swap jets, a couple of mouse clicks can allow me to change the entire duty cycle of an EFI injector to adjust the fuel map accordingly. But still, there's the problem: We're basing that off of our own knowledge, and not adapting to the needs of someone with less than we have. That is where the options need to be presented properly.

In the end, this whole bullshit attitude of telling someone with a carburetor problem that the information they need is out there, so they're responsible for their own success needs to stop. That's not what this community is about. As I first told Bill years ago, there needs to be a specific "how-to" guide on these conversions so that individuals have a step-by-step procedure in their hands to get their cars running. No one should have to rely upon having to kiss someone else's ass in order to get support. If Chad had that kind of a resource available to him then, this car wouldn't have any problems right now, and this conversation wouldn't even have happened. But there you go.

[dmruschell]

Well then I stand corrected, and I offer my sincerest apologies. The conflicting reports however still stand, and I'm not even going to get involved in on that dog pile.




On the contrary, I simply don't believe that you're seeing things from the correct viewpoint. Allow me to explain: Remove yourself and your skills and knowledge from the situation, and see things from the position of a person who doesn't have as much past experience, if any at all, with fuel delivery systems. With all three of the other systems I mentioned, these offer both large, diverse support groups, and even hard documentation in print to guide with the installation & tuning for the systems. This is the kind of support that an owner, or even an unfamiliar mechanic needs. Something sorely missing from these ad hoc carb kits. But we'll touch more on that later.

First, let's address the 3 systems in question.




No argument there, but I've no idea where in the world you're getting the idea that I'm claiming that there is none needed.




What in the world are you talking about? Stock K-Jetronic has only a single adjustment screw. The flow rates which make up the engine's fuel map were already pre-determined by BOSCH, and are executed by the components working in tandem. Tuning the system itself is actually extremely simple. The big problem is really that most owners simply refuse to follow the instructions contained inside of the Workshop Manual to apply a precise tune. But still, there is only a single adjustment screw. If you're tinkering with more than that, you're doing something wrong.




Certainly it isn't a "Plug & Play" solution per se, but the tuning process really isn't that hard. The most difficult portion of an EFI installation (which I myself will most likely be undertaking) is simply wiring up the sensors and components. That is complicated because it requires the individual to possess the ability to read schematics, use a multimeter, and have the tools and know-how of how to terminate the needed engine harness. But tuning? Nope. Aside from some pretty damn good documentation of performing a conversion and how to use the software, you have support from other owners and the entire aftermarket community at large. Even then there are many tuner shops that for a fee will perform the tuning on a Megasquirt (or other EFI system) for you. So tuning EFI to create your fuel map is literally the least of your worries.




It might be more difficult, but there is documentation available for the installation of the Holley unit and adapting it to the PRV. And that's a whole helluva lot more than I can say about these homemade conversions. As for guidance, let's talk about that...




Again this is how it may be easy for you, but that doesn't apply to everyone else. Just as you might be more comfortable with carburetors, I'm more comfortable with mechanical fuel injection and EFI because they're what I grew up on. They're what I know. Tuning a carb is a helluva lot more than just listening to it. Which for the record, you cannot do. If you could, Delco, Rotunda, and MoPar would have sold acoustic tuning devices a long time ago. You have to set your mixtures for idle, fast idle, and WOT. And that's after you properly jet the whole damn thing. Otherwise you end up with lean idles with high NOx levels, and ok fast idle. OR you have ok idle emissions and high HCs on the fast idle. Because as it turns out, despite your engine type, you always have to have some sort of fuel map for the thing. And even if you don't care about emissions, with those kind of results, you still risk internal damage to the engine.

But that is your knowledge. Mine tells me that rather than having to tear a carb apart to swap jets, a couple of mouse clicks can allow me to change the entire duty cycle of an EFI injector to adjust the fuel map accordingly. But still, there's the problem: We're basing that off of our own knowledge, and not adapting to the needs of someone with less than we have. That is where the options need to be presented properly.

In the end, this whole bullshit attitude of telling someone with a carburetor problem that the information they need is out there, so they're responsible for their own success needs to stop. That's not what this community is about. As I first told Bill years ago, there needs to be a specific "how-to" guide on these conversions so that individuals have a step-by-step procedure in their hands to get their cars running. No one should have to rely upon having to kiss someone else's ass in order to get support. If Chad had that kind of a resource available to him then, this car wouldn't have any problems right now, and this conversation wouldn't even have happened. But there you go.

Did you really not get that "duel mixture" was a typo from my phone's autocorrect? It should be "fuel mixture".

I didn't have any experience with carbs until just a few years ago. It's called learning.

I'm not going to bother reading and responding to every word of your response, as it's already been a waste of enough of my time.

[opethmike]

Well then I stand corrected, and I offer my sincerest apologies. The conflicting reports however still stand, and I'm not even going to get involved in on that dog pile.




On the contrary, I simply don't believe that you're seeing things from the correct viewpoint. Allow me to explain: Remove yourself and your skills and knowledge from the situation, and see things from the position of a person who doesn't have as much past experience, if any at all, with fuel delivery systems. With all three of the other systems I mentioned, these offer both large, diverse support groups, and even hard documentation in print to guide with the installation & tuning for the systems. This is the kind of support that an owner, or even an unfamiliar mechanic needs. Something sorely missing from these ad hoc carb kits. But we'll touch more on that later.

First, let's address the 3 systems in question.




No argument there, but I've no idea where in the world you're getting the idea that I'm claiming that there is none needed.




What in the world are you talking about? Stock K-Jetronic has only a single adjustment screw. The flow rates which make up the engine's fuel map were already pre-determined by BOSCH, and are executed by the components working in tandem. Tuning the system itself is actually extremely simple. The big problem is really that most owners simply refuse to follow the instructions contained inside of the Workshop Manual to apply a precise tune. But still, there is only a single adjustment screw. If you're tinkering with more than that, you're doing something wrong.




Certainly it isn't a "Plug & Play" solution per se, but the tuning process really isn't that hard. The most difficult portion of an EFI installation (which I myself will most likely be undertaking) is simply wiring up the sensors and components. That is complicated because it requires the individual to possess the ability to read schematics, use a multimeter, and have the tools and know-how of how to terminate the needed engine harness. But tuning? Nope. Aside from some pretty damn good documentation of performing a conversion and how to use the software, you have support from other owners and the entire aftermarket community at large. Even then there are many tuner shops that for a fee will perform the tuning on a Megasquirt (or other EFI system) for you. So tuning EFI to create your fuel map is literally the least of your worries.




It might be more difficult, but there is documentation available for the installation of the Holley unit and adapting it to the PRV. And that's a whole helluva lot more than I can say about these homemade conversions. As for guidance, let's talk about that...




Again this is how it may be easy for you, but that doesn't apply to everyone else. Just as you might be more comfortable with carburetors, I'm more comfortable with mechanical fuel injection and EFI because they're what I grew up on. They're what I know. Tuning a carb is a helluva lot more than just listening to it. Which for the record, you cannot do. If you could, Delco, Rotunda, and MoPar would have sold acoustic tuning devices a long time ago. You have to set your mixtures for idle, fast idle, and WOT. And that's after you properly jet the whole damn thing. Otherwise you end up with lean idles with high NOx levels, and ok fast idle. OR you have ok idle emissions and high HCs on the fast idle. Because as it turns out, despite your engine type, you always have to have some sort of fuel map for the thing. And even if you don't care about emissions, with those kind of results, you still risk internal damage to the engine.

But that is your knowledge. Mine tells me that rather than having to tear a carb apart to swap jets, a couple of mouse clicks can allow me to change the entire duty cycle of an EFI injector to adjust the fuel map accordingly. But still, there's the problem: We're basing that off of our own knowledge, and not adapting to the needs of someone with less than we have. That is where the options need to be presented properly.

In the end, this whole bullshit attitude of telling someone with a carburetor problem that the information they need is out there, so they're responsible for their own success needs to stop. That's not what this community is about. As I first told Bill years ago, there needs to be a specific "how-to" guide on these conversions so that individuals have a step-by-step procedure in their hands to get their cars running. No one should have to rely upon having to kiss someone else's ass in order to get support. If Chad had that kind of a resource available to him then, this car wouldn't have any problems right now, and this conversation wouldn't even have happened. But there you go.
54305

[Ron]

Thread split helping OP can be found HERE (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?15911-Carburetor-Troubles-Car-is-Completely-Useless).

[Dangermouse]

Is it meant to be locked Ron?

[Michael]

Thread split helping OP can be found HERE (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?15911-Carburetor-Troubles-Car-is-Completely-Useless).

Nice...the lock happys have struck again.

[81dmc]

Nice...the lock happys have struck again.

Looks like it. My post was moved but that thread is locked...

[Ron]

No. Locking the thread wouldn't help her, or anything else... ~20% of the posts could. So, I split them to the Carb section where she would be better served anyway...
Although it's getting a bit ?aggressive?, the remainder has its pros and cons and here is as good a place as any....
:coffee:

[Ron]

Looks like it. My post was moved but that thread is locked... My fault...I had a tab open fixing an attachment while chasing a bot down. Try again or refresh.
Sorry!

[DMCVegas]

Did you really not get that "duel mixture" was a typo from my phone's autocorrect? It should be "fuel mixture".

No I did not. There is a history of people who recklessly tinker with K-Jet and will start fiddling with the Idle Screws to fix problems with surging idles instead of properly repairing their vehicles. So it isn't that unreasonable to beleive that is what someone could be alluding to with that sentence. If it was a typo, then I do understand the mistake in that case.



I'm not going to bother reading and responding to every word of your response, as it's already been a waste of enough of my time.

Of course you won't. Because why risk encountering something that challenges your personal views? It's far better to embrace culpable deniability than to risk being wrong, isn't it?



I didn't have any experience with carbs until just a few years ago. It's called learning.

And that right there is the entire root of my argument. That right there. To which I will reference Farrar's own words in this thread:


If this is the attitude you gave Bill, then I'm not surprised he had little time for you. He's not going to explain stuff to you like you're five. He's going to assume you have done your homework and just need him to point you in the right direction.

That is the whole entire root of the issue with these carburetor conversions, and precisely what I predicted what would happen about 5-6 years ago when I first started speaking with Bill about carburetor conversions, and he scoffed at the idea of helping people with complete how-to guides. I also clearly stated the following in my last post, and I'll say it again because it bears repeating:
This whole bullshit attitude of telling someone with a carburetor problem that the information they need is out there, so they're responsible for their own success needs to stop. That's not what this community is about.
While the DeLorean wasn't my first car (3rd) I did get it at an early age over 17 years ago, and it's what I learned car repair on. But the main reasons for my success in ownership was that I had other owners in the community who helped me in the over 21 years I've had in with the marque as a whole. They answered my questions when I had them. When I was wrong about something, they corrected me and guided me to the correct answer. When I asked for additional resources, they pointed me in the right direction. What they didn't do was shun me with generic answers about how I have to go and learn things first to somehow prove myself worthy of daring to ask questions. They mentored me from the begining. Something that is clearly not happening here with these carburetor conversions, and I'm sure is going to happen again.

I don't have a carb, and it's not the way I'm going to go moving forward. But tell me, what is so difficult about educating your fellow owners that need your help? What's with the elitist attitude where you all relish in alienating them?

[81dmc]

This whole bullshit attitude of telling someone with a carburetor problem that the information they need is out there, so they're responsible for their own success needs to stop. That's not what this community is about.
While the DeLorean wasn't my first car (3rd) I did get it at an early age over 17 years ago, and it's what I learned car repair on. But the main reasons for my success in ownership was that I had other owners in the community who helped me in the over 21 years I've had in with the marque as a whole. They answered my questions when I had them. When I was wrong about something, they corrected me and guided me to the correct answer. When I asked for additional resources, they pointed me in the right direction. What they didn't do was shun me with generic answers about how I have to go and learn things first to somehow prove myself worthy of daring to ask questions. They mentored me from the begining. Something that is clearly not happening here with these carburetor conversions, and I'm sure is going to happen again.

I don't have a carb, and it's not the way I'm going to go moving forward. But tell me, what is so difficult about educating your fellow owners that need your help? What's with the elitist attitude where you all relish in alienating them?

Not to add fuel to the fire, but you are spot on!

The whole point of the community is helping others, even if it takes a little explaining. Bottom line is, if you don't have a link or any helpful material to include, don't post anything.

[dmruschell]

No I did not. There is a history of people who recklessly tinker with K-Jet and will start fiddling with the Idle Screws to fix problems with surging idles instead of properly repairing their vehicles. So it isn't that unreasonable to beleive that is what someone could be alluding to with that sentence. If it was a typo, then I do understand the mistake in that case.




Of course you won't. Because why risk encountering something that challenges your personal views? It's far better to embrace culpable deniability than to risk being wrong, isn't it?




And that right there is the entire root of my argument. That right there. To which I will reference Farrar's own words in this thread:



That is the whole entire root of the issue with these carburetor conversions, and precisely what I predicted what would happen about 5-6 years ago when I first started speaking with Bill about carburetor conversions, and he scoffed at the idea of helping people with complete how-to guides. I also clearly stated the following in my last post, and I'll say it again because it bears repeating:
This whole bullshit attitude of telling someone with a carburetor problem that the information they need is out there, so they're responsible for their own success needs to stop. That's not what this community is about.
While the DeLorean wasn't my first car (3rd) I did get it at an early age over 17 years ago, and it's what I learned car repair on. But the main reasons for my success in ownership was that I had other owners in the community who helped me in the over 21 years I've had in with the marque as a whole. They answered my questions when I had them. When I was wrong about something, they corrected me and guided me to the correct answer. When I asked for additional resources, they pointed me in the right direction. What they didn't do was shun me with generic answers about how I have to go and learn things first to somehow prove myself worthy of daring to ask questions. They mentored me from the begining. Something that is clearly not happening here with these carburetor conversions, and I'm sure is going to happen again.

I don't have a carb, and it's not the way I'm going to go moving forward. But tell me, what is so difficult about educating your fellow owners that need your help? What's with the elitist attitude where you all relish in alienating them?

This whole bullshit attitude of telling someone that they need an Alpine carb setup, put KJet back on their car, or convert to EFI instead of helping them figure out how to use what is on their car needs to stop.

[opethmike]

Derrin and Robert should get a room.

[dmruschell]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but you are spot on!

The whole point of the community is helping others, even if it takes a little explaining. Bottom line is, if you don't have a link or any helpful material to include, don't post anything.

Every carburetor conversion is likely to be slightly different. Most DeLorean owners don't know how to work on carburetors, so when someone does have an issue with a carb on their DeLorean, only a very small segment of this community can actually help. Directing someone to google information about their own particular carburetor will usually allow them to find the resources that can actually help them with the setup that is on their particular car. There are lots of resources out there for carburetors. The best any of us can do is google information about the OP's carburetor, which they can easily do themselves. There's a saying about giving someone a fish vs teaching them to fish that comes to mind.

[dmruschell]

Derrin and Robert should get a room.

You're just jealous.

[opethmike]

I'm looking forward to Robert's War & Peace long diatribe towards me for me not documenting my LS swap to the point where a monkey with a wrench could do it.

[Rich_NYS]

This whole bullshit attitude of telling someone that they need an Alpine carb setup, put KJet back on their car, or convert to EFI instead of helping them figure out how to use what is on their car needs to stop.

+1

I like the way you think, mister!


Not trying to put a dog in the fight, but just to share what I believe to be a helpful opinion:

My car came with a carb conversion and was running, so when I started to have a few minor issues I figured out what to do with what I have on the car. I had all the K-Jet parts, but reverting to stock didn't seem like the fast path to success. I would've had the same approach if it came with a running K-Jet system (like my first DeLorean.) So when it comes to the carb in particular, I found a lot of resources and learned what I needed to do what I needed (and it wasn't too hard.)

Bill, Youtube videos, a bunch of guys on Today, and some older dudes who worked on carbs most of their life was everything I needed and I have it running good now. Looking back on what I've learned, I don't think it was too hard.

[SamHill]

First of all, thank you for the opportunity to use as many words as possible when making a thoughtful response to forum posts, DMCVegas style. I will attempt to make this post as long as possible at all costs and not go off on any tangents like how I accidentally got stuck in my parents backyard the other day because it had rained and I tried to turn around but the van is not 4WD so it resulted in me digging huge ruts in the ground and Dad had to use his '88 Mighty Max pick up to pull me out. I think he has the last Might Max pickup out there. What a colossal piece of shit. Gets 10 mpg if that and likes to pollute and spread angry black smoke more than Colin Kaepernick after eating at Taco Bell. So at some point I should probably get around to the point of this post. I think I will. Almost there. Okay here goes. What a person could do, if a carb needs work, is study youtube videos and then rework a carb yourself. I don't have the faith in myself, I don't want to soak carb parts for a week in a cancer causing solution, I don't have the work ethic and I could honestly give a crap, so I might give it to a trusted person to rebuild, but the other option is just go buy a new one from Champion. This is what I did. The specs are: 72-74 2100 Carburetor 1.08 Venturi, 287 CFM, upgrade to electric choke. You then need to SEND THEM A PIC OF THE LINKAGE and they will put the proper linkage on for you. It's pricey, but it's worth it. When I need a new carb, I'll likely ship this one back as a core and have them do it up again. So this concludes my wordy DMCVegas style post. I hope you liked it. Maybe some time when responding to another sock who is not a real person and soliciting carb advice, you can refer back to it. Or not. I think I will go have nachos now. Do you like nachos? It's like I always say: whenever you are feeling down, nachos are always there for you. Goodbye for now. Hope you have a great Sunday and next week is good for you as well. So long.

[David T]

At this point the cheapest option is to try to get the car to run with a carburetor. If the one on the car now isn't right it has to be tuned or changed. A "Hot Rod" or speed shop should be able to get the car to run, if not properly, at least better. Next option would be to return to stock K-Jet which would take a lot of money, time and parts. The last option would be to move on to a more modern, electronic fuel injection system. Most expensive and longest time choice. Too bad the current owner has limited funds. Perhaps the best choice would be to sell the car and buy another one when she is in a better position to own a classic car. Sometimes the best choice is to cut your losses and get out rather than try to put more money in. It WILL take money to get the car to run better in any case. Money she claims not to have. For any newbies out there, you cannot spend your last nickel to buy an old, classic car and not have something kept in reserve to spend to fix things that WILL show up on ANY old car. You will find yourself in the worst position possible, you have spent all of your money on a car that doesn't run and you don't have the resources to fix it.

[opethmike]

Sam, that was the most amazing thing that I have read all week. Will you marry me?

[SamHill]

Sam, that was the most amazing thing that I have read all week. Will you marry me?

I pitch!!!

[opethmike]

Deal!

[opethmike]

At this point the cheapest option is to try to get the car to run with a carburetor. If the one on the car now isn't right it has to be tuned or changed. A "Hot Rod" or speed shop should be able to get the car to run, if not properly, at least better. Next option would be to return to stock K-Jet which would take a lot of money, time and parts. The last option would be to move on to a more modern, electronic fuel injection system. Most expensive and longest time choice. Too bad the current owner has limited funds. Perhaps the best choice would be to sell the car and buy another one when she is in a better position to own a classic car. Sometimes the best choice is to cut your losses and get out rather than try to put more money in. It WILL take money to get the car to run better in any case. Money she claims not to have. For any newbies out there, you cannot spend your last nickel to buy an old, classic car and not have something kept in reserve to spend to fix things that WILL show up on ANY old car. You will find yourself in the worst position possible, you have spent all of your money on a car that doesn't run and you don't have the resources to fix it.

Something something mustache something

[DMCVegas]

I'm looking forward to Robert's War & Peace long diatribe towards me for me not documenting my LS swap to the point where a monkey with a wrench could do it.

Last I checked, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're not selling any sort of LS Conversion kits. So what would you be responsible for?



There's a saying about giving someone a fish vs teaching them to fish that comes to mind.

The operative word in your statement there being "teaching".

What we have here is more like promising someone that they can feed themselves if they speed hundreds of dollars on a fishing pole a particular individual sells. Said person then sends it to them with no instructions, and then the selling vendor, and the rest of you refuse to teach them anything about how to use it with the bonus of publicly scolding them for daring to ask for help.

I dunno. Maybe if you're going to use pious slogans to try and prove a point, you should actually practice what you preach by adhering to the very standards you're trying to set to justify your own actions.

[Andrew]

Every carburetor conversion is likely to be slightly different. Most DeLorean owners don't know how to work on carburetors, so when someone does have an issue with a carb on their DeLorean, only a very small segment of this community can actually help. Directing someone to google information about their own particular carburetor will usually allow them to find the resources that can actually help them with the setup that is on their particular car. There are lots of resources out there for carburetors. The best any of us can do is google information about the OP's carburetor, which they can easily do themselves. There's a saying about giving someone a fish vs teaching them to fish that comes to mind.

Agreed! There are mutiple ways to successfully carb a DeLorean. In many instances the differences between carb conversions are reflective of the car itself, the preferences of the owner and what was available at the time. 5052 and 4194 are using the exact same Peugeot 604 sourced system; however, I have already decided that I will use an Motorcraft 2150 if the Solex carbs ever need to be replaced. I recently replaced the Carter feedback carb on my 82 Eagle with a 1.08 venturi Motorcraft 2150 and I love the results. It delivers great performance and runs smoothly.

[opethmike]

Last I checked, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're not selling any sort of LS Conversion kits. So what would you be responsible for?




The operative word in your statement there being "teaching".

What we have here is more like promising someone that they can feed themselves if they speed hundreds of dollars on a fishing pole a particular individual sells. Said person then sends it to them with no instructions, and then the selling vendor, and the rest of you refuse to teach them anything about how to use it with the bonus of publicly scolding them for daring to ask for help.

I dunno. Maybe if you're going to use pious slogans to try and prove a point, you should actually practice what you preach by adhering to the very standards you're trying to set to justify your own actions.

I don't like how you're speaking to my vanilla honey bear. Be nice, or I'll have to take my pants off and hug you.

[Josh]

Last I checked, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're not selling any sort of LS Conversion kits. So what would you be responsible for?

While he is not selling kits, mike is a very critical player in the development of such a kit.

[dmruschell]

Last I checked, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're not selling any sort of LS Conversion kits. So what would you be responsible for?




The operative word in your statement there being "teaching".

What we have here is more like promising someone that they can feed themselves if they speed hundreds of dollars on a fishing pole a particular individual sells. Said person then sends it to them with no instructions, and then the selling vendor, and the rest of you refuse to teach them anything about how to use it with the bonus of publicly scolding them for daring to ask for help.

I dunno. Maybe if you're going to use pious slogans to try and prove a point, you should actually practice what you preach by adhering to the very standards you're trying to set to justify your own actions.

Bill has said that he didn't provide the carb that is currently on the car in question, and Chad didn't design a carb kit for the car he put one on. So, even if there was a carb kit with documentation that someone made along the way, it wouldn't necessarily apply to the car being discussed, because every carb conversion is going to be different, so your point is moot. We're back to where we started: the OP needs to figure out what carb is on the car and how to tune it, and this board is probably not the best place to learn how to do that.

[dn010]

If it helps, I have a Motorcraft 2100 carb if you want it-I believe it is the same on Bill uses for his "kit". I can dig it out later this week and see what kind of condition it is in - I purchased it for a possible carb swap in the early 2000's and it's been sitting on the shelf since. PM me if you're interested in it.

[Ron]

We're back to where we started: the OP needs to figure out what carb is on the car and how to tune it, and this board is probably not the best place to learn how to do that.
But, but...but, she said her "Carburetor Troubles" were over the the linkage and that it had been recently rebuilt and ran better now (in post 1 ;-).

[dmruschell]

But, but...but, she said her "Carburetor Troubles" were over the the linkage and that it had been recently rebuilt and ran better now (in post 1 ;-).

True. But the shop that rebuilt (or swapped) it also couldn't even put the linkage together correctly. A shop that can't figure out how to put a carburetor linkage together correctly (especially when it was properly put together when it got to them) shouldn't be trusted. Learning how to do this stuff yourself/ourselves saves a lot of headaches.

[Ron]

LOL Somehow I knew you would say that...and I, that it would need more than a tune :deviltail:.
So far, it looks like it needs a bracket and a place to put the KD cable, AKA a carb...

(But that's all OT ;-)