Automatic Headlights?

[lazabby]

Has anyone installed an automatic headlight system in their Delorean? Lights that come on when the car starts and go off when the car is turned off? This is common in the new cars today.

[Chris 16409]

Houston tried that with their reproduction headlight switch and module. The way the feature was implemented was not reliable, and would turn the headlights off when you wanted them to stay on.

[DMCVegas]

I think we're talking about two different things. Having headlights that will not come on unless the key is turned is different than having automatic headlights that turn on when it gets dark.

For the former, we just had a thread about that Headlight Switch (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?15925-DMCH-Headlight-Switch-Questions). For the latter, you'd really need a 3-position headlight switch, coupled with the aforementioned switched power supply. Not to mention a photocell mounted somewhere on the dashboard.

Unless you wanted to install a secondary system with a separate switch that runs off of the Accessory power feed, and then intercepts the headlight circuit itself. Which would be much more complicated than just a 3-position switch.

[Michael]

I fail to see why anyone would want that "feature" on any car they own. I had DRL's on my new work van I bought a few months ago, it was the very first thing I disabled.


PS, if the OP does want constant headlights and doesn't want to be bothered by pressing a button when he starts the car, I guess you could run the headlight switch to a switched power feed and add an inline fuse, but that's a lot of trouble to go through to bypass the previously mentioned task of pressing a button.

[Josh]

Ive had this unit for a few years. Works great.
There is a photosensor that turns the lights on at dusk (sensor mounted in rear window, ideally should be mounted in middle of dash)
It also has a jumper that allows you to use the low beams as DRL, or just operate automatically with the tail/marker lights.
As part of the installation I tied the left and right marker light circuits together and incorporated a relay.

https://www.amazon.com/Directed-Electronics-545T-Nite-Lite-System/dp/B000CJ24YY

[Jonathan]

DRL's are mandatory in Canada and one of many things I'm glad the public here is told what to do instead of being permitted to use their own judgement as to whether they support it or not.

[sdg3205]

I fail to see why anyone would want that "feature" on any car they own. I had DRL's on my new work van I bought a few months ago, it was the very first thing I disabled.


PS, if the OP does want constant headlights and doesn't want to be bothered by pressing a button when he starts the car, I guess you could run the headlight switch to a switched power feed and add an inline fuse, but that's a lot of trouble to go through to bypass the previously mentioned task of pressing a button.

What is it about DRL's that Americans don't like? Like Jonathan says, all vehicles up here run them so it doesn't even cross my mind.

[Ron]

Unless you wanted to install a secondary system with a separate switch that runs off of the Accessory power feed, and then intercepts the headlight circuit itself. Which would be much more complicated than just a 3-position switch.I have NOT tried it, but it looks like you could do it with 2 jumpers and a diode:
Remove the Low Beam Relay's feed (30, N), feed it with a jumper from the High Beam Relay's center terminal (87a), then jump the RPM Relay's "Hot only when engine is rotating" terminal (87b, YR) to the Low Beam Relay's trigger terminal (86, UP) through the Diode. (This should make the Headlights come on (High/Low, depending on the switch position) when the engine starts...me thinks;-)

54535

If the Tail Lights etc come on too, a diode in the existing UP wire should fix it...

[DMCVegas]

I have NOT tried it, but it looks like you could do it with 2 jumpers and a diode:
Remove the Low Beam Relay's feed (30, N), feed it with a jumper from the High Beam Relay's center terminal (87a), then jump the RPM Relay's "Hot only when engine is rotating" terminal (87b, YR) to the Low Beam Relay's trigger terminal (86, UP) through the Diode. (This should make the Headlights come on (High/Low, depending on the switch position) when the engine starts...me thinks;-)

54535

If the Tail Lights etc come on too, a diode in the existing UP wire should fix it...

That would probably work for a DRL system. But for a "Twilight Sentinel" one, you'd have to wire the tail lights in with diodes as well to the separate controller, using the same feed from the RPM Relay, or at least the accessory feed from the auxiliary relay. Which is why it's far easier to just go ahead and use a 3-position headlight switch. Car's wiring doesn't need to be as modified as much. The switch would operate as normal for clearance & headlight functions with the existing wiring (save for being modified to utilize the new switch). But when moved into the automatic position it would leave the switch open to avoid the use of diodes and extensive rewiring, and completely relies upon the external controller providing power to both circuits using the existing power feed. It does still need a restricted power source as a trigger, so you could either use your wiring source tapped into the RPM relay or run an additional like off of the auxiliary relay.

Apparently they already make such a kit with a 3-position switch & logic box with photo sensor. This would actually be perfect for a future installation. I'm going to wire DMCH's headlight kit in for now, but I could just as easily run the additional wire and create a pigtail with another Packard connector to swap out the switch when the time comes. Save for figuring out where to relocate the Hazard switch, that would clear up a large chunk of real estate on the center console for a double DIN radio if the switch were to be installed on the left knee bolster like a modern car. PLUS it already has the built-in expansion & warning lamp for fog lights. Save for the additional wire and sacrifice of the left knee pad, this would probably be the least invasive modification for automatic headlights.

54536

Come to think of it, I'd probably either opt for an aftermarket bezel with a rheostat switch to relocate that, or just outright delete it. Then just cut the panel and relocate the hazard switch down there in the rheostat's current location...



What is it about DRL's that Americans don't like? Like Jonathan says, all vehicles up here run them so it doesn't even cross my mind.

There's really two big reasons for it. The first is that because the headlights come on at night, people think that their full clearance lights are running and don't bother to fiddle with the headlight switch since they see light reflecting off of objects in front of them. That results in no side marker lights, nor tail lights lights burning. So people can pull out in front of you at night, and you may not see them until it's too late, and you crash into them. Whereas if they had the lights on and pulled out, you could have avoided them in time. Manufacturers try and work around this by installing idiot lights to let you know when your headlights are on, and assume that people who since cars had lanterns have relied upon seeing light reflecting as proof their lights were working, are suddenly going to rely up a tiny lamp instead. This also gets compounded by binnacles that light up even during the day to cause further false positives to a driver that their external lighting is on.

The second thing is that not all DRLs are the same. Some are low-power, but many will run high beams during the day to overcome the brightness of natural sunlight. When you're way down south in someplace like the desert here in Vegas, or even down on the roads in Houston where it also gets up to triple-digit temps, you have a big problem with mirages. The heat rising off of the road will bend light to create a mirror image of the road & sky. High beams aren't focused beams, but rather just brighter flood lights to help you see because they scatter light everywhere. Even during the day you can still get blinded by a dazzling effect with high beams. The problem then doubles if the light is reflecting off of the road, and you can't control it with DRLs.

This is why there is still a huge debate over the actual safety of DRLs. I don't think there's actual mandate on daytime lumen output, let alone on beam pattern. By the same token a country with a cooler climate such as Canada might not have these same road conditions that are not compatible with DRLs, so it's not really as much of a apparent problem up north.

http://sky-lights.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2011-09-26-Q.jpg

[Michael]

Twilight Sentinel

IMO, if you need a computer to turn on your headlights because you can't figure out it's night then you have no business driving a car on the road


DRL's

I don't like them because they make me feel like I'm a 77 year old in Florida with the turn signal on all the time.

[Dangermouse]

Twilight Sentinel

IMO, if you need a computer to turn on your headlights because you can't figure out it's night then you have no business driving a car on the road

.

But as you know, there are many thousands of folks down here that are too dim (!) to work out that it is dark and they need lights.

In general I like the idea of DRLs but only if they are combined with auto-lights for the reasons Robert mentioned above.

Further improvements could be made by creating algoithims that can determine that you are driving in traffic with your brights on and convert the seat heaters to electroshock therapy.

Also, headlamps (not brights) should be designed to prevent anything brighter than about 4200K being installed.

And while we are at it, use of LED light bars on the highway should be punishible by jail time or forcing the owner to drive a Geo Storm for 1 week for every linear inch of bar.

Not that this is a pet peeve of mine, or anything:umm:

[Jonathan]

^yea! what Dermot said^

Robert is right about people driving around thinking their lights are on when they actually aren't. That's either an auto headlight switch that isn't in auto issue or a poor ambient light sensor issue or something else, but it makes for some dangerous dusk or dawn driving when buddy pulls out in front of you and has nothing lit up on his taillights.

I turn my headlights on (and thus the side marker lights too) in the DeLorean anytime I drive it (and at all times of the day).

I hadn't thought about the heat affected light beams going up instead of out like you get in Texas or Arizona. Like you guessed, not much of an issue here. Although, if that was the main concern for us here, I'd gladly trade in this epidemic of overly bright lights we seem to have for it. What is with this glaring (that word choice's for you Dermot!) discrepancy in what you might consider adequately bright low beams or high beams and what you actually see (and get blinded by) on the actual road??

I am all for some kind of enforcement, but therein lies the problem. Things like this seem to default to being self-regulated and in the best judgement of the car owner, parts salesman, website you can get the lights from, etc. And that whole system ain't working worth a shit. I don't know what the solution is, but I can tell you that I have absolutely loved driving the DeLorean in the past couple summers, but almost exclusively only during the day. Between the height of the car, the excessive brightness of Average Joe's headlights, and the glare you might get if your bad timing includes some rain on the windshield, it's the farthest thing from enjoyable (at least for me anyway).

Personal pet peeve? Haha, YES, mine too!!!

[jangell]

I installed a relay to turn off my headlights when I turn the car off. This was over a decade ago, and my other car at the time had the same behavior. The problem I was having was that I'd keep forgetting to turn them off when I got out of the DMC, so I just made it automatic.

I have no problem with leaving the lights on all the time, so that's what I do, and I've had no ill effects to date. I documented what I did here, with steps: http://www.tmproductions.com/upgrades-and-modifications/2014/11/6/ignition-switched-headlights . Unfortunately, I didn't think to take pictures at the time, so it's just text.

-- Joe

[David T]

The entire electrical system in the Delorean is marginal at best and the cars are now over 30 years old. To consider adding another large constant load is not a good idea unless you make upgrades to the entire system. BTW, DRL's are a good safety idea. In PA it is the law to turn your headlights on when driving through workzones. Most DRL's do not use the headlights, they use an auxiliary bulb. As for "twilight sentimental" (a system to automatically turn the lights and off), if you are trying to install the features of a more modern car, buy a more modern car. Then you can get lane change warning, cameras, auto braking, adaptive cruise control, hot spot, Appleplay, all kinds of goodies.

[Michael]

But as you know, there are many thousands of folks down here that are too dim (!) to work out that it is dark and they need lights.

In general I like the idea of DRLs but only if they are combined with auto-lights for the reasons Robert mentioned above.

Further improvements could be made by creating algoithims that can determine that you are driving in traffic with your brights on and convert the seat heaters to electroshock therapy.



If we could take it one or 2 steps further. Splice a GPS locator into The car and Wi-Fi so your car can get current weather and traffic conditions and have the car adjust headlight usage accordingly. Furthermore we could convert one of the taillights to function with 2 element bulbs so to light brighter making a rear foglight like most European vehicles have but it would only activate pending approval from weather alerts via the afore mentioned Wi-Fi. This would make DeLorean ownership worthwhile.

[Dangermouse]

You've been reading the sales brochure for the New DeLorean, haven't you !

[Dangermouse]

Has anyone installed an automatic headlight system in their Delorean? Lights that come on when the car starts and go off when the car is turned off? This is common in the new cars today.

Sorry about hi-jacking your original question Shannon.

See this thread, where Notifier fits a control unit that seems to be both auto and DRL compatible


http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?11932-How-about-daytime-running-lights&highlight=laser

[Josh]

Sorry about hi-jacking your original question Shannon.

See this thread, where Notifier fits a control unit that seems to be both auto and DRL compatible


http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?11932-How-about-daytime-running-lights&highlight=laser

Hey! Another thread with people bitching about the politics / opinions of DRLs instead of offering any meaningful answers to the OPs question.
Classic!

[Michael]

Hey! Another thread with people bitching about the politics / opinions of DRLs instead of offering any meaningful answers to the OPs question.
Classic!

I did both

[Jonathan]

Hey! Another thread with people bitching about the politics / opinions of DRLs instead of offering any meaningful answers to the OPs question.
Classic!


I did both

Just bitching here! I'll go sit in the corner now...

[dn010]

I installed a relay to turn off my headlights when I turn the car off. This was over a decade ago, and my other car at the time had the same behavior. The problem I was having was that I'd keep forgetting to turn them off when I got out of the DMC, so I just made it automatic.

I have no problem with leaving the lights on all the time, so that's what I do, and I've had no ill effects to date. I documented what I did here, with steps: http://www.tmproductions.com/upgrades-and-modifications/2014/11/6/ignition-switched-headlights . Unfortunately, I didn't think to take pictures at the time, so it's just text.

-- Joe

This
+1. I also installed a relay long ago that turns the lights off with the key and on with the key provided the headlight switch is on. Same problem - kept forgetting to turn them off. It's a simple install.

[Josh]

I did both

always an over-achiever!

[Ron]

I think you might get DRLs by replacing the 2 existing high beam only bulbs with 2 high-low bulbs, then feed the 2 extra terminals through a relay triggered by the RPM Relay's Hot When Engine Rotating terminal.

Optionally, you could add 2 resistors to adjust brilliance and/or a simple switch to turn them off...

[Josh]

I think you might get DRLs by replacing the 2 existing high beam only bulbs with 2 high-low bulbs, then feed the 2 extra terminals through a relay triggered by the RPM Relay's Hot When Engine Rotating terminal.

Optionally, you could add 2 resistors to adjust brilliance and/or a simple switch to turn them off...

Or, just re-pin the low beam relay trigger (Blue/Gray) to the accessory relay. Much easier, less complicated.

[Dangermouse]

Has anyone installed an automatic headlight system in their Delorean? Lights that come on when the car starts and go off when the car is turned off? This is common in the new cars today.

New car Auto headlights are ones that come on automatically at low light, surely, so they need some sort of light sensor.

What you are asking for is "always on" which my car has, I think with the relay mod mentioned above. But I am not sure and was just surprised that my lights are always on :)

[refugeefromcalif]

And while we are at it, use of LED light bars on the highway should be punishible by jail time or forcing the owner to drive a Geo Storm for 1 week for every linear inch of bar.

Not that this is a pet peeve of mine, or anything:umm:

I kinda like my LED light bars.

54553

But you can't scare me with a Geo Storm, I already drive a vehicle with a social stigma attached to it. :umm:

George

[Dangermouse]

Those aren't the ones I am talking about. Yours are factory fitted and aimed with the correct equipment.

I mean the PepBoys special that are routinely fitted to trucks and jeeps and are approximately rated at "brightness of the sun". Often they are mounted mid-grille so it gets an uninterrupted path to your interior mirror.

Hence the choice of the Storm, the antithesis of all things truck.

[Ron]

Or, just re-pin the low beam relay trigger (Blue/Gray) to the accessory relay. Much easier, less complicated.
I think you meant "Blue/Purple"...
That would be good if you didn't mind the drain on the battery when you just wanted to run the radio or other accessory. I've used the override on my Silverado more than I would have thought because of the light itself.

So, now I'm thinking I'd do that except triggering it with the RPM relay (87b, Yellow/Red) instead.

[Josh]

I think you mean "Blue/Purple"...
That would be good if you didn't mind the drain on the battery while you cranked, or wanted to use any accessories.

...Or, avoid that by connecting it to the RPM relay (87b, Yellow/Red) instead.
(By Jove, I think we've got it;-)

I'm not sure why you are insistent on tapping into the RPM relay. That circuit is over stressed enough as is. Even if it is just a signal to flip a relay.
And no, I do mean take the blue/purple (blue/gray is for high beams) wire out of the low/dip beam relay socket, set it aside, and tie that now empty pin into the accessory relay...

[Ron]

We seem to have a communication problem :deviltail: ...


I'm not sure why you are insistent on tapping into the RPM relay. That circuit is over stressed enough as is. Even if it is just a signal to flip a relay.
I would use the RPM relay because:

[I would mind] the drain on the battery when [I] just wanted to run the radio or other accessory. I've used the override on my Silverado more than I would have thought because of the light itself....and I don't see the circuit as being over stressed, else I would of added a relay to split the load...

============


And no, I do mean take the blue/purple (blue/gray is for high beams) wire out of the low/dip beam relay socket, set it aside, and tie that now empty pin into the accessory relay...But you said:
Or, just re-pin the low beam relay trigger (Blue/Gray) to the accessory relay. Much easier, less complicated.

============

And, blue/gray is not for the high beams -- There is no blue/gray -- Its trigger is US (Blue/Slate).
[FWIW, G=Green. No Gray at all.]

Anyway, it seems Shannon's question should be answered...
(???...It's late, get some sleep, bud ;-)

[Josh]

yikes, certainly making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Elvis]

I'm using the DMCH light switch with the DO NOT USE orange wire - and I like it.

It turns the lights off after 20 seconds - enough time to open the garage door.


I modified it a bit - years ago - it works absolutely reliable.
~10 years now ?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I'm not sure why you are insistent on tapping into the RPM relay. That circuit is over stressed enough as is. Even if it is just a signal to flip a relay.
And no, I do mean take the blue/purple (blue/gray is for high beams) wire out of the low/dip beam relay socket, set it aside, and tie that now empty pin into the accessory relay...

A typical relay control signal takes between 100 to 200 ma. The exact current depends on the relay and car voltage. I don't see a problem adding that small load to the RPM relay but if you do then you could use the lambda relay output which is driven by the RPM relay.

Note:
The OEM RPM relays have two outputs but they both are driven by the same "battery" power at the same time. The early RPM relays had two relay contact pins but the later RPM relays just use one pin and connect those two output pins "hardwired".

[Totally 80s]

I have automatic lights on my car. Never had a problem.

[Bob635]

Has anyone installed an automatic headlight system in their Delorean? Lights that come on when the car starts and go off when the car is turned off? This is common in the new cars today.

Research in Europe and by the US DOT both show that DRL reduces the frequency of accidents.