Removing the battery (or not?)

[DaraSue]

So I guess I have no choice but to accept that winter is here, and I see that most people recommend taking the battery out. But I'm having a hard time getting it out, and I notice the list of safety instructions on the side of it specifically says "do not tilt."

It doesn't seem to be horrifically cold in my garage (it's attached to the house and has a room above it), would it be terrible to just leave it in there for a couple months with the covers off of the battery compartment and the fuse box and trickle charge it from the jump posts? I'm afraid I'm going to damage it getting it out and dragging it around...

(It has a cutoff which I've turned off already.)

[opethmike]

Yes, remove it. Batteries outgas, and with it sitting right below the electrical area, I believe that's why so many DeLoreans get such bad fuse box corrosion.

[Elvis]

I've also never taken it out and yes we do know what winter is in Black Forest Germany.

[David T]

For a car in storage IMHO best practice is to remove as much of the fuel as possible and take the battery out. Store the battery on a piece of wood in a warm place and trickle charge it for 1 day once a month. Cover the car and make sure nothing can fall on it. Over-inflate the tires to prevent flat-spotting. Keep insurance on it in case of theft, fire or damage. Treat the leather surfaces with Leatherique Rejuvinator. Clean the car inside and out. Make sure rodents and other critters can't get to the car. If necessary place mothballs under the car NOT inside it. Do NOT park the car on dirt. I also use small wooden blocks to lift the windshield wipers of the glass so the blades don't "take a set". Flush the brakes and clutch. Change the motor oil and test the coolant. In this condition a car can be stored for many years before age/storage related damage appears.

[dmc]

If you use a quality battery tender there is no need to remove the battery.

[DaraSue]

Gave it another shot this morning and finally wrestled it out. Hopefully it's not going to poison us if I leave it on the kitchen counter. (It's several feet from where people normally prepare food and it's in a cardboard box. The counters are laminate.)

Is my battery unnaturally huge or something? It was really awkward getting it out of there.54889

There's some corrosion on the negative terminal: 54890

And a lot of whitish crud on the floor of the battery compartment. 54891 Obviously I didn't want to touch it to try to figure out what it was, but could that all be corrosion residue? If not, what else could it be? (Obvious tasteless jokes aside.)

The battery is an Exide 75X "Nascar Extreme" and the date stamp says it was made in Feb 16.

[JETS 81 DMC]

Clean the terminal with an old tooth brush or what ever you can get in there. Use Coca-Cola (Coke) or baking soda mixture with water to clean and
neutralize the corrosion. You can clean the battery compartment the same way.

I would keep the battery in your garage not in your house. Keep it on a good battery maintainer or use your trickle charger once a month. I use the Battery Tender Plus on a couple of my vehicles that are not in my heated garage and have been doing it that way for years.

Hope this helps

[cdrusn]

May be I missed something but why would you trickle charge a battery once a month instead of leaving a battery tender on it so the computer can turn
the charger on when the voltage goes below the set value? Can't we let modern technology do the thinking and working for us? :race:

[JETS 81 DMC]

May be I missed something but why would you trickle charge a battery once a month instead of leaving a battery tender on it so the computer can turn
the charger on when the voltage goes below the set value? Can't we let modern technology do the thinking and working for us? :race:

I meant if you do not have a battery maintainer to leave on all the time then use your trickle charger once a month.

[Bitsyncmaster]

You only need to protect a low charged battery from freezing. With a trickle charger on all the time I don't think you will get much out gassing. So it's up to you if you want to remove it.

The old type trickle charger was just a low current transformer capable of 1 or 2 amps. The newer "tender" chargers set a voltage so as not to do constant "trickle" like the old type.

[David T]

You only need to protect a low charged battery from freezing. With a trickle charger on all the time I don't think you will get much out gassing. So it's up to you if you want to remove it.

The old type trickle charger was just a low current transformer capable of 1 or 2 amps. The newer "tender" chargers set a voltage so as not to do constant "trickle" like the old type.

I don't like the idea of leaving stuff like that plugged in continuously. If anything goes wrong bad things can happen. The other day a house burnt down in a nearby town because they left a hoverboard on a charger. I would not put a battery in a kitchen in a cardboard box. The box will disintegrate from the gasses. If you can, you should write on the battery the year so you can tell how old it is and when it is 5 years old you should consider replacing it. In any case it should be tested every year and if it fails, replaced. The battery should be washed and the terminals cleaned. You can buy an inexpensive terminal cleaner in an auto parts store. The terminals should be clean and shiny. Never overtighten the bolts that hold the wires to the battery. Make sure nothing can fall on the battery and touch the terminals. That would be bad. Some side terminal batteries also have top posts. If you don't have them you can get plastic covers so bad things can't happen easily.

[Elvis]

I was told by an expert to fill up the fuel tank as much as possible.

That's valid for metal tanks, especially motorbikes.

Of course I asked about plastic tanks and I was told the
fumes are much more harmful than the gasoline itself therefore - fill it up.



For a car in storage IMHO best practice is to remove as much of the fuel as possible and take the battery out. ...

[dn010]

When my car was stored in New York for some winters and the years I was in the Army, the battery was left in, fuel left in the tank and every other week either I or someone else while I was absence, got in the car, fired it up and let it run for a little while, pumped the clutch & brake pedals and that was it. I'd suggest Sta-bil in the tank now that we have ethanol in our fuel, that is what I have in my 57 Cadillac tank that is in storage and I have 0 issues. When my D was stored outside one year it was parked on pavement and wrapped in a tarp - pain in the ass to uncover to start it up but worked out fine for me.

[BladeBronson]

Is my battery unnaturally huge or something? It was really awkward getting it out of there.

Your battery looks correct. Slide the passenger seat forward to get more room.

[David T]

Forever the "conventional wisdom" was to fill the gas tank all the way up for long term storage. Condensation was a big problem and by having the smallest amount of air above the fuel it minimized any potential condensation from the air. You have to remember the conditions that prevailed at the time. Tanks were steel with a tin coating. There were no evap or vapor systems so the tank was open to the air and breathed. The fuel didn't contain additives or ethyl alcohol. Fast forward to today. The situation has changed in so many ways. IMHO it is now "best practice" to remove as much fuel as possible for storage. Having seen first hand the damage caused by old fuel I see no advantage to leaving fuel in the car. As I see it a large part of the problem is many of the cars that were to be stored "just for the winter" wind up being neglected for many years and were never properly prepared for long term storage. Last point, a car stored with a full tank of fuel is a bigger fire hazard than one stored with no fuel. As for the battery, over time the terminals corrode. They just do. Since you will have to remove the battery anyway to clean the terminals, you might as well remove the battery for storage anyway. It has the benefit of keeping the battery in a warm place. Not every garage stays above freezing and a discharged battery can freeze.

[DMC-Ron]

Coat the battery terminals. There are expensive protective coatings for this but I use white grease or lubriplate. The idea is to thoroughly coat the terminals which will prevent off-gasses from interacting with the terminals. It works well. One application can last years. An additional benefit: it keeps the connecting bolts (side connection) and terminal lugs (top connection) in good condition and easy to remove when it's time to replace the battery.

Ron

[David T]

Coat the battery terminals. There are expensive protective coatings for this but I use white grease or lubriplate. The idea is to thoroughly coat the terminals which will prevent off-gasses from interacting with the terminals. It works well. One application can last years. An additional benefit: it keeps the connecting bolts (side connection) and terminal lugs (top connection) in good condition and easy to remove when it's time to replace the battery.

Ron

This is another thing everyone did "back in the day". I used to do it. I don't anymore. I found that when the terminal would overheat, the grease would melt and make the connection even worse. Then you have a sticky mess to clean up along with the corrosion. Side terminal batteries are not supposed to have corrosion problems but they do. Especially if the bolts are ever overtightened, breaking the seal to the case. For post type batteries there are pads you can buy that help, but do not eliminate, corrosion. Again, if the battery is left in the car for a LONG time it will corrode and you will have to remove it to clean up the mess. Might as well just remove it in the first place. Another point. If it is really long term storage the battery will get old and become worthless anyway. After 5 years most batteries are no good, they have lost 1/2 of their rated capacity.

[DaraSue]

I cleaned the corrosion up today with baking soda. There wasn't much on the D's battery but my CRX's battery was pretty nasty-looking, AFAICR I'd last had it replaced around 2012 and it was cranking pretty sluggishly lately so I just went and got a new one at AutoZone. The clerk talked me into getting the kit that comes with the felt washers and dielectric grease for the terminals so I put those on with the new one. I'll see how those do and then evaluate whether to do that when I put the D's battery back in.

I checked the D's battery with a tester today and it still showed good even after sitting for two weeks. I'll hook the trickle charger up tomorrow and see what it says. (It's the Centech from Harbor Freight (https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/battery/10250-amp-12v-manual-charger-with-engine-start-60653.html)

The D's battery is still on the kitchen counter because if the object is to get it out of the cold, my options are pretty limited as far as places the cats won't mess with it. There's a closet under the stairs in the basement but do I want it in that enclosed of a space?

[DMC-Ron]

This is another thing everyone did "back in the day". I used to do it. I don't anymore. I found that when the terminal would overheat, the grease would melt and make the connection even worse. Then you have a sticky mess to clean up along with the corrosion. Side terminal batteries are not supposed to have corrosion problems but they do. Especially if the bolts are ever overtightened, breaking the seal to the case. For post type batteries there are pads you can buy that help, but do not eliminate, corrosion. Again, if the battery is left in the car for a LONG time it will corrode and you will have to remove it to clean up the mess. Might as well just remove it in the first place. Another point. If it is really long term storage the battery will get old and become worthless anyway. After 5 years most batteries are no good, they have lost 1/2 of their rated capacity.

David,
As you mention, coating the battery terminals has been with us a long time. It remains a valid remedy because it works well and solves several battery terminal issues. Overheating of auto battery terminals is not commonplace but generally due to electrical resistance at the terminal. This is more common in golf cart battery setups, particularly in the forward/reverse switch. We have found that coating those connections help this situation.

You’re point is well taken regarding longer term storage of batteries. With a battery life of 5 (+/-) years, it makes good sense to remove the battery for any longer term storage of the car.

Ron

[David T]

David,
As you mention, coating the battery terminals has been with us a long time. It remains a valid remedy because it works well and solves several battery terminal issues. Overheating of auto battery terminals is not commonplace but generally due to electrical resistance at the terminal. This is more common in golf cart battery setups, particularly in the forward/reverse switch. We have found that coating those connections help this situation.

YouÂ’re point is well taken regarding longer term storage of batteries. With a battery life of 5 (+/-) years, it makes good sense to remove the battery for any longer term storage of the car.

Ron

I bring it up again, all too often a car is "parked". Maybe for the winter, maybe till it can get fixed. If it is prepared for storage at all it is only for short-term storage with the intention of getting it going again soon. Fast forward 10 years or so and the car is forgotten in the garage (more likely the driveway but sometimes the back yard) things have fallen on it, are stacked all over it, generations of creatures have been born, lived, and died in it. Tires are flat, the battery has grown a coating on it and the fuel has aged (and for fuel that is "not a good thing"). The wiring is chewed up, the seat padding is in the heater box, the tool roll is eaten up and nesting materiel is all tucked inside the car. Glass may be broken. The car is a biological hazard. Hidden is all of the damage to the fuel system, the brakes, the clutch, and the cooling system. Much of this could have been easily avoided with some simple prep work when the car was first parked. Starting with removing the battery. My main point is, often when a car is stored you don't always know for how long so it should be prepped for long term storage if it is to be stored at all.

[JETS 81 DMC]

I cleaned the corrosion up today with baking soda. There wasn't much on the D's battery but my CRX's battery was pretty nasty-looking, AFAICR I'd last had it replaced around 2012 and it was cranking pretty sluggishly lately so I just went and got a new one at AutoZone. The clerk talked me into getting the kit that comes with the felt washers and dielectric grease for the terminals so I put those on with the new one. I'll see how those do and then evaluate whether to do that when I put the D's battery back in.

I checked the D's battery with a tester today and it still showed good even after sitting for two weeks. I'll hook the trickle charger up tomorrow and see what it says. (It's the Centech from Harbor Freight (https://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/battery/10250-amp-12v-manual-charger-with-engine-start-60653.html)

The D's battery is still on the kitchen counter because if the object is to get it out of the cold, my options are pretty limited as far as places the cats won't mess with it. There's a closet under the stairs in the basement but do I want it in that enclosed of a space?

You should store the battery in your garage not in your house. A charged battery will not freeze. Cars sit outside all the time in the winter with well below freezing temps and below zero degrees. Don't worry about that. I would leave it in the garage and charge it overnight on the 2 amp setting or longer until it shows full charge once a month. That is all you need to do and you will be ok but don't store it in your house.
Glad you got both your cars batteries clean up.

[Gfrank]

I’ll bring my battery’s in out of all my boats and any of my cars outside. Rotate them on the battery tender. The Delorean is inside semi heated and has its own tender. I don’t remove it

[DaraSue]

I tried to clean out the battery compartment today and there's a rubber mat or something on the bottom of it? The white crud wiped off the top of the mat but the underside of it's pretty nasty looking, do I just need to replace the whole thing?54907

[DMC-81]

I tried to clean out the battery compartment today and there's a rubber mat or something on the bottom of it? The white crud wiped off the top of the mat but the underside of it's pretty nasty looking, do I just need to replace the whole thing?54907

The rubber pad is supposed to be there. If the rubber is still in good shape you can just clean both sides and the fiberglass box and reglue it in place. The nasty stuff is just contact cement or a similar self adhesive. You can use goo gone etc to clean it.

[David T]

The rubber pad is supposed to be there. If the rubber is still in good shape you can just clean both sides and the fiberglass box and reglue it in place. The nasty stuff is just contact cement or a similar self adhesive. You can use goo gone etc to clean it.

The rubber mat should be cleanable. It does not have to be glued down. The heads of the bolts that hold the trailing arm shield are underneath and one day you may need to get to them. The strap that holds the battery in is often damaged or just missing.

[DMC-81]

The rubber mat should be cleanable. It does not have to be glued down. The heads of the bolts that hold the trailing arm shield are underneath and one day you may need to get to them. The strap that holds the battery in is often damaged or just missing.

True, but if you find that the rubber mat slips out of place when you try to wiggle the heavy battery back in place, you may need to revisit the adhesive. From experience, as long as you avoid using any permanent adhesive you can remove the pad as needed to access/replace the Big Head M6 studs (SP10250). Contact cement can be softened with heat and reapplied, just as we do when we have to remove the interior Trim Panel & Armrest (110677) part to access the rear speakers.

Your mileage may vary.

[OverlandMan]

Yes, remove it. Batteries outgas, and with it sitting right below the electrical area, I believe that's why so many DeLoreans get such bad fuse box corrosion.

Agreed when dealing with flooded lead acid types but is this still accurate with absorbed glass mat?


May be I missed something but why would you trickle charge a battery once a month instead of leaving a battery tender on it so the computer can turn
the charger on when the voltage goes below the set value? Can't we let modern technology do the thinking and working for us? :race:

I had a Battery Tender knock-off cheapie from Autozone or similar years ago on my old 1948 Jeep. I used this same mentality in letting the technology in the "smart" charger maintain the battery for me. One day when I went out to start the Jeep, the battery was completely dead. The piece of junk crapped-out and took the battery down to nothing, which yielded a useless Interstate battery at that point.

Now I have an actual Battery Tender brand charger/maintainer and I keep it plugged-in for a few days. Then I unplug it for a week or two and repeat the process.

[Ron]

I disconnect a battery if it will be sitting a ~month. If longer or very cold, I'll put a good minder on it.
(One that will not allow the charge to cause the battery to heat up and out-gas (<13.2V, IIRC). Low amp, constant chargers don't cut it.)

I don't remove them because, beyond the above and keeping them clean, the warranty will take care of things...


FWIW, This stuff runs rings around anything else I've tried.
54915

[DaraSue]

I got the battery charged up and put it back down in the garage, but I guess I'll have to put it back in the car anyway because I didn't get the fuel stabilizer in before the snow started and I didn't realize you had to run the engine to get it through the whole system. :banghead:

I cleaned off the rubber mat today so we'll see what happens when everything goes back in. It looks like there's a metal strip along the side of the compartment that the mat was supposed to be attached to?

Arrgh, we keep getting teased with 40-50F temps during the day but then it's down below freezing at night so I guess the roads are staying salty.

[DMC-81]

I cleaned off the rubber mat today so we'll see what happens when everything goes back in. It looks like there's a metal strip along the side of the compartment that the mat was supposed to be attached to?



You may want to check if the metal strip is an upgraded SS deflector retaining strip ( 111230 ). If so, it's unlikely that you will need to access it as the OEM bolt heads are eliminated. The mat doesn't specifically get attached to it. It still gets glued to the fiberglass floor...the strip just becomes part of the floor.

[Jonathan]

FWIW, I remove my battery while the car is stored over the winter and keep it in the basement sitting on a piece of wood. I put the charger on it about once per month until it reads 100% and then remove it. I also don't feel comfortable about leaving this sort of electrical thing going unattended in my home for extended periods of time.

I also didn't know there was supposed to be a rubber mat under the battery. My car doesn't have one of those, but it soon will! :)

[DMC5180]

I got the battery charged up and put it back down in the garage, but I guess I'll have to put it back in the car anyway because I didn't get the fuel stabilizer in before the snow started and I didn't realize you had to run the engine to get it through the whole system. :banghead:

I cleaned off the rubber mat today so we'll see what happens when everything goes back in. It looks like there's a metal strip along the side of the compartment that the mat was supposed to be attached to?

Arrgh, we keep getting teased with 40-50F temps during the day but then it's down below freezing at night so I guess the roads are staying salty.

You Drive your car enough, with continuous fresh fuel, that you really don’t need to worry about adding fuel stabilizer. It certainly doesn’t hurt anything, but don’t feel bad if you didn’t circulate it. You’ll be just fine.

In All my years of ownership, I’ve never added Stabil or a similar product too the Tank for my 4-5 month winter storage season. I’ve had Zero fuel related starting issues in Spring.


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[Ron]

FWIW, due to their shells being made out of hard plastic, placing a modern battery on wood is useless nowadays.

[Jonathan]

FWIW, due to their shells being made out of hard plastic, placing a modern battery on wood is useless nowadays.

What was/is gained from putting a battery on a block of wood while stored outside the car anyway? Was it as an insulating barrier for the physical cold of a concrete floor? Or as a non-conductive barrier to help ensure current doesn't pass somehow and drain the battery?

[DMC5180]

What was/is gained from putting a battery on a block of wood while stored outside the car anyway? Was it as an insulating barrier for the physical cold of a concrete floor? Or as a non-conductive barrier to help ensure current doesn't pass somehow and drain the battery?


https://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/battery.asp



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[Ron]

More, from manufacturer:

Q: Can I store my batteries on concrete?

A: Many people have the impression that when batteries sit on concrete, energy “leaks out” or they are ruined. The short answer is that letting modern batteries sit on concrete does not harm or discharge them in any way.

However, this legend is historically based in fact. The first lead-acid batteries consisted of glass cells that were enclosed in tar-lined wooden boxes. A damp concrete floor could cause the wood to swell, breaking the glass inside.

The Edison cell (i.e. the nickel-iron battery) that preceded the rubber-cased battery was encased in steel. Those that weren’t isolated in crates would discharge into concrete quite easily. Later battery cases used primitive hardened rubber, which was somewhat porous and could contain lots of carbon. A moist concrete floor combined with the carbon in the battery cases could create electrical current between the cells, discharging them.

None of this is a problem with modern batteries in their hard plastic shells. In fact, concrete is generally an excellent surface on which to place a battery. The electrolyte in a battery sitting on an extremely cold floor with very hot air around it could stratify, causing damage from sulfation; whereas concrete provides good thermal mass to buffer any temporarily extreme temperatures in the battery compartment.

[DaraSue]

After all that, today I ended up firing it up and taking it around the beltway. It was 55F out, roads were mostly dry although I hit a couple of wet patches halfway around. All together it was about 35 miles and I'd put 2 gallons in, ended up right back around 1/8 tank as I got home.

Does anybody else have this gas can? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Briggs-Stratton-Gas-Can-2-Gal-Red-Self-Vent-Poly-85023G/235991081 They made it so wonderfully safe and ecological that I couldn't get the nozzle to work at all and had to just dump it in through a funnel. I swear I can still smell the fumes on my sleeves and my face has been itchy all day. :swear1:

[Alex Brooks]

After all that, today I ended up firing it up and taking it around the beltway. It was 55F out, roads were mostly dry although I hit a couple of wet patches halfway around. All together it was about 35 miles and I'd put 2 gallons in, ended up right back around 1/8 tank as I got home.

Does anybody else have this gas can? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Briggs-Stratton-Gas-Can-2-Gal-Red-Self-Vent-Poly-85023G/235991081 They made it so wonderfully safe and ecological that I couldn't get the nozzle to work at all and had to just dump it in through a funnel. I swear I can still smell the fumes on my sleeves and my face has been itchy all day. :swear1:

I have the 6 gallon version and tired to use it on my Mercedes I had to use a screw driver to hold the filler flap open, still got gas on the car and on me plus they drain so slow. I’ll only use it for lawn epuipment now (snow blower , leaf blower ,mower ) but never on a car again.
Glad to hear you go a good drive in I hope to go for one today.