Getting to the wiring behind the climate controls (turn signal weirdness)?

[jangell]

So what is the best way to get to the wiring behind the climate controls?

I have made a lot of changes to my car (3.0L EFI conversion, added a ground bus, new fuse box, etc), and I'm very close to actually running the car, so the problems with doing a lot of things at once are starting to manifest themselves.

At the moment, the problem is the turn signals. It started with the left signal works fine. The right turn signal "worked", in that it flashed the lights, but it also flashed the dash lights as well (climate controls and instrument cluster). If I turned on the parking lights or headlights, the right turn signal went on and stayed on. Flipping the stalk to actually turn the signal on made the bulb brighter, but it never clicked back off (presumably due to the dash lights powering the circuit).

I reached my hand behind the climate controls from the passenger side and tried to fiddle with the wires, thinking there was a short. I basically found that I could tap on something that would cause the dash lights to go off even when the parking lights were on, so apparently I've screwed up something there.

I next tested the hazard lights work, which seem to work OK. The switch sticks a bit (after turning them on, you have to press the switch and then pull it out again to turn them off). However, neither turn signal works anymore.

The fuse looks fine, so I'm guessing I just screwed up something with the wiring behind the climate controls. I'm also wondering if I messed up something when I ran my ground buss back there. It would be much easier to figure out what I did if I could actually see inside that space.

At the moment I'm considering removing the aftermarket radio, since that will probably afford me the best view in there, but is there another way to look in? I just re-installed the center armrest/console trim thing, but I could remove it again if anyone thinks it'll give me a better look, PITA that that is.

Also, has anyone had this issue with their turn signals flashing their dash lights like this? I'm wondering if it might point me in the right direction.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[David T]

For full access remove the console and the radio. Sounds like a lot of work but it isn't and should only take a few minutes.

[Ron]

Check that one of the filaments in the double filament bulbs have not burnt off one end and dropped across the other filament.
Wrong type of bulb(s).
And as always with a D, each bulbs ground.

[jangell]

Thanks David; I'll take out the console and pull the radio tomorrow.

I'll take a look at the turn signals and make sure the bulbs are OK; a fallen filament wire is something I never would have thought to look for.

It seems to be that the act of turning on the parking lights that turns on the driver's side turn signal, so I'd be surprised if the a short at the turn signal bulb was the problem, but it won't hurt to check.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[DMC-Ron]

Thanks David; I'll take out the console and pull the radio tomorrow.

I'll take a look at the turn signals and make sure the bulbs are OK; a fallen filament wire is something I never would have thought to look for.

It seems to be that the act of turning on the parking lights that turns on the driver's side turn signal, so I'd be surprised if the a short at the turn signal bulb was the problem, but it won't hurt to check.

Thanks!

-- Joe

I think Ron's on to something here. Check the drivers side front turn signal bulb. A short between the filaments or even in the socket could cause the described symptom. An easy check would be to remove the bulb to see if activating the running (parking) lights still activates the turn signal. If it doesn't, get a new bulb. Even if it does look over the bulb socket carefully to check for any potential short.

Ron

[jangell]

I checked the front turn signal light (passenger side; I mistakenly said driver’s side in my most recent port), and while the bulb has two filaments, it seems fine. I also tried disconnecting the rear tail lights and both marker lights, but neither had any effect.

However, I’m working on the current problem of no turn signals at all. The hazard lights work (and flash the dash lights), but neither turn signal works at all.

I pulled the hazard switch and found that if I short the pins for the G and LGK wires (as per the wiring diagram), the turn signals work (and flash the dash lights). I’m starting to think there’s a problem with the hazard light passing through to the directionals.

I dismantled the hazard switch and saw no obvious problem. It seems to move much more easily when outside of its case, too. When I plugged it back in like that, I was able to wiggle it around and get a proper connection from the G and LGK pins, although it wouldn’t stay when I let go of it.

In short, I think that when I first tested the hazard lights, I broke the switch (or the switch simply failed). For the moment I’ve just shorted the pins with a jumper so I can get back to other tasks.

So that solves the “why don’t the turn signals work at all” issue, or at least points to the part to replace.

I’ve abused my heated seats and drained the battery a bit too much while tinkering with this to do much else today. My turn signals seem to be working with the headlights on again, so that’s good, although the right signal is still flashing the dash lights. Guess I’ll look at that next week, hopefully when it gets a little warmer.

Thanks again

— Joe

[DMC5180]

When you say flash the dash lights, do you mean cluster illustration dips down but not off?


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[jangell]

Both the illumination for the cluster and the climate controls (“AC illumination”, I think the manual calls it). These are the lights that should be on when the headlight switch is in the second or third position, and whose brightness is controlled by the dial on the shifter plate (rheostat, the docs say). Currently, those lights only work when the right turn signal flashes. Meaning specifically that they blink with the right turn signal, and that’s the only time they’re on. I’m not sure how I managed to get it to do that, exactly...

— Joe

[DMC5180]

Something got miss wired. Have you done any electrical work behind the A/C panel. I saw you mentioned having the center console out at some point. What was the purpose of that?


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[jangell]

Running a new ground bus and removing old ECU wiring as part of the EFI conversion. I am wondering if the ground bus lug is shorting something, but it’s way off to the side and not near the back of the switches. I spent so much time today just looking at the hazard light issue that I didn’t get around to looking at the bus. I didn’t have to remove the console yet, just hte radio, but I might have to pull the console and trace the wires just to be sure, and at least see if any wires slipped off the rheostat dial.

— Joe

[Ron]

Both the illumination for the cluster and the climate controls (“AC illumination”, I think the manual calls it). These are the lights that should be on when the headlight switch is in the second or third position, and whose brightness is controlled by the dial on the shifter plate (rheostat, the docs say). Currently, those lights only work when the right turn signal flashes. Meaning specifically that they blink with the right turn signal, and that’s the only time they’re on. I’m not sure how I managed to get it to do that, exactly...

— Joe
If you have disturbed the White Plug going to the Cluster:
Note the pins for the Right Indicator and the Illumination are right next to each other (14=GW & 15=RW, ...AC lights tied through Rheostat)
Could be that the terminal connection on the printed circuit for Illumination (15) is misaligned and touching the Right Indicator connection/terminal (14)...??

[DMC5180]

If you have disturbed the White Plug going to the Cluster:
Note the pins for the Right Indicator and the Illumination are right next to each other (14=GW & 15=RW, ...AC lights tied through Rheostat)
Could be that the terminal connection on the printed circuit for Illumination (15) is misaligned and touching the Right Indicator connection/terminal (14)...??

I would tend to agree and was thinking about that earlier. The trace tab for the illumination lights would need to be displaced a lot though. So much so that it doesn’t make contact with the normal contact in the connector. Since, He said, he has no cluster illumination except with the right signal.


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[jangell]

Quick follow-up: I removed the binnacle (everything looked good), the center console, the radio, and finally realized that everything worked properly once I unplugged the black bulkhead connector. That meant the problem was in the taillight assembly itself.

In the end, it was my own stupidity and customizations. I have backup sensors, a high center stop light and the marker lights as turn signals mod, all coming off taps into the right taillight plug. When I reinstalled everything, I wasn't paying attention and basically connected the wire from the tail lights to one from the turn signals. This explains the dash lights flashing with the turn signals, since the tail light circuit goes live when the dash lights are turned on from the headlight switch.

I undid the marker light mod for now. I had put LEDs in there at some point in the past anyway, and only just realized that the mod relies on incandescent, since it sets the pins to ground/ground, 12v/12v, 12v/ground and ground/12v, and since LEDs are polarized you can't do the 12v/ground vs ground/12v thing. I'll throw together some simply microcontroller-based solution for it if I want to enable it (been meaning to play with those DigiSparks I bought a while ago).

Thanks everyone for your help. At least I still have a much clearer idea of the wiring in the center console in and the binnacle area, so it's wasn't all bad

-- Joe

[Bitsyncmaster]

I sell a side light blinker board for $35. But if you want to play with a micro, I can see that to be fun.