Fuel lines

[Fluxn83]

After seeing another Delorean fire make its rounds on facebook, it scared the hell out of me. I do have a fire extinguisher, but there is also talk that the original fuel lines should be replaced to prevent this from happening.

I check the Delorean Texas inventory and see they offer part #102359. Is this the only fuel line generally spoken of or are there more? What else should be replaced if need be?

[dn010]

You'd look for a set of lines that come off of the fuel distributor like here: http://www.deloreanindustries.com/braided-stainless-fuel-injection-line-set/

With that, if the lines are original coming off the "hard lines" to the fuel pump, I'd suggest to replace those too and the rubber line for the accumulator. The original lines going to the pump from the steel line are plastic and aged. Along with a set of lines you'll need a set of new copper washers unless it is included, which DPI does include per their description.

[Delorean Industries]

We offer a complete solution for all 13 engine compartment lines. Crush washers included. Let us know if you have any other questions on our product offerings.

[DMC-81]

Here are a couple tips:

When you replace them, try to clean the sealing surfaces on both sides of the crush washers well. Then follow the torque specifications for the hollow fuel bolts as stated in the Workshop Manual to avoid breaking them.

When finished, I pressurized the fuel lines before starting the engine to check for any leaks/weeping. Then again right after starting the engine.

Good luck.

[Delorean Industries]

No cleaning or prep work is required on our line ends. If you try to clean the mating surface you will risk damaging the plating. You should check for excessive build up of corrosion on the fuel distributor case iron mating surfaces and injectors though.

[DMC-81]

No cleaning or prep work is required on our line ends. If you try to clean the mating surface you will risk damaging the plating. You should check for excessive build up of corrosion on the fuel distributor case iron mating surfaces and injectors though.

Thanks for the clarification Josh. Yes, the fittings on new lines shouldn't need cleaning, and you wouldn't want to use anything that causes damage to any surface, plated or otherwise. I was referring to anything that was reused, fuel bolts, injectors, fuel distributor, CSV, CPR, etc. You would want to remove old crusty fuel, dirt, corrosion etc.. Also this tip is in general, regardless of which vendor you choose.

------------------

In my case, I had all hollow bolts re-plated, new injectors and fuel filter, and I repainted the fuel distributor. However, I got a little bit of paint on the sealing surface of one of the top fittings on the FD. This caused a slight weep when I pressurized the fuel lines the first time. After correcting that, my system was tight and I was good to start the engine.

Basically, cleanliness and caution are warranted with this job.

[David T]

Yes, any tiny piece of dirt can prevent proper sealing. Another common problem is, during assembly, you lose a washer (usually the lower one) and don't realize it. The fitting will leak and the first temptation is to try tightening it more. You break the bolt and then realize the washer is missing. The other common cause of leaks is trying to reuse the copper sealing washers. When they are used they get "Work Hardened". When you try to reuse them they are harder and do not "crush" like new ones which are softer. You try to tighten it more to stop the leak and break the bolt. The hollow bolts cannot take much torque. Always use new washers, make sure they are all in place before tightening and keep the joints scrupulously clean when assembling.

[opethmike]

Be sure to have an accurate/correctly calibrated torque wrench when tightening down the banjo bolts. The torque values are low, and it is very easy to break the bolts.

[DavidProehl]

The torque values are low, and it is very easy to break the bolts.

Yes they are! I broke 1 of mine even when aware they were easy to break.

It sounds like the OP is already planning to replace lines, but in case anyone needs more fear struck into them: I had an original line burst on me while driving about 5 years ago, which thankfully killed the engine, preventing a fire from starting. The engine was still cold which helped as well. Needless to say, I replaced every fuel line that week!

[DaraSue]

When I had mine apart doing some VOD work recently, I had to tighten a couple of them past spec to get a good seal (that was with washers from O'Reilly, though). The big 17 & 19MM ones don't break as easily but you might want to order a few spares of the small ones just in case. Also be careful when testing after reinstalling, mine didn't appear to be leaking during initial idle check but then the 17MM was dripping after I took it on a short test drive. If you can, have a helper start the car while you watch the engine, fire extinguisher at the ready.

[Jonathan]

Yes they are! I broke 1 of mine even when aware they were easy to break.

It sounds like the OP is already planning to replace lines, but in case anyone needs more fear struck into them: I had an original line burst on me while driving about 5 years ago, which thankfully killed the engine, preventing a fire from starting. The engine was still cold which helped as well. Needless to say, I replaced every fuel line that week!

I presume the advice is well intended, but none of us need more "fear" struck into us. There is already more than there ever needed to be of that in the world, extending to far more than just cars and fuel lines

Know the facts and then make educated and informed decisions. Using singular examples doesn't make for good catch-all, "better safe than sorry" policies, especially when the context is not always entirely known nor understood or not applicable from one case to the next.

"Don't ever reuse copper sealing washers?" Sounds like good advice, right? And probably is a lot of the time for lots of people. What if I told you a well-respected car and/or DeLorean specific expert said to me they reuse these copper sealing washers all the time? That's a real world example, not the textbook theory one.

It wouldn't help anyone to broadcast that for "fear" of that now being the norm or "best practice." These cars are in the hands of a very diverse group of people and are in a wide range of conditions in both maintenance and operation. It takes common sense and due diligence and the willingness to ask questions when you aren't sure about something.

No one wants to see another car on fire or crashed up after a failed bearing or trailing arm bolt breaking. No one wants to live in fear of something awful happening anytime they get in their car either. Stop the fear mongering.

[opethmike]

Well, that was quite the speech. Whew.

If I may amend DaraSue's recommendation - jumper the RPM relay to get fuel going through the system, instead of starting the car. Safer.

[DavidProehl]

Stop the fear mongering.

My point was original fuel lines should not be trusted anymore and in my opinion continuing to use old fuel lines is rolling the dice. I didn't mean to come off sounding alarmist, just a realistic risk around old and critical safety parts. I'd say the same thing about any critical part that is original such as brakes. If that is fear mongering, I'll wear the badge proudly :)

[dn010]

Admittedly, through the countless times I've removed and reinstalled my lines on the original engine, only one time did I purchased and use new washers on the connections. I've never had a leak. I've broken some fittings but had plenty of spares on hand.

[Delorean Industries]

That is brave! I have never even tried to reuse these as they "crush" to seal when initially tightened.

[dn010]

I honestly didn't know any better at the time, 15 years ago. Today, if I still had K-jet, I would use new washers. Even if they weren't required to be replaced after each use, I've learned that it just makes life easier using new parts instead of trying to reuse old.

[FABombjoy]

That is brave! I have never even tried to reuse these as they "crush" to seal when initially tightened.
Right? And sometimes they have an impression crushed in to them leading to an irregular sealing surface. Which is kind of the idea.

When they're 10 cents in bulk, spending time inspecting used washers for reuse suitability is a waste of labor. Risk? Leak. Reward? Saved a few bucks.

[dn010]

Never inspected them. Flipped them over, put them on, tightened down the fittings without a torque wrench and drove 30,000 miles. I was also a teenager and didn't give a s#!t. LOL

[David T]

Because of the high pressure used in the K-jet system you can have a leak and never see it. You WILL smell it. The leak can be so fine that the fuel atomizes as it escapes so you don't see a drip. An ignition source and now you have a small blowtorch. The good news is that if the fitting doesn't initially leak it won't start leaking later. That's why if you smell any fuel you must investigate carefully till you can find the cause. Abusing the fuel lines is the biggest reason for failure. The majority of the fleet is running safely on the original lines. Don't bend or kink them and if working on the motor take care not to stretch or crush them. Use new sealing washers and you should be OK. If any of the lines look damaged they should be replaced and the ones by the fuel pump and the accumulator too.

[Chris 16409]

Ed Uding offers a whole set of copper washers for the fuel lines:

https://www.delorean.eu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=19_152_157&products_id=157002&osCsid=t1r200p1c5qeocdle17lj3ojd1

Don't know if you could find them cheaper locally.

[DaraSue]

At what point can you safely assume you have a good seal? I've been a little nervous ever since doing my own work on them over Thanksgiving week, but I've put a couple hundred miles on since then and my car hasn't caught on fire yet. Before & after driving I'll sniff around by the fuel distributor and I don't smell any gas back there, can I stop worrying (or at least stop worrying quite as much)?

[Delorean Industries]

If you replaced the crush washers there shouldn't be a problem. They bed into the two mate surfaces and seal the connection point. Leaking banjos that are at least partially tightened seep and look wet around the connection. Its rare for one to be spraying every where unless the banjo was installed wrong from the start. This wouldn't become a problem a month later but more or less immediately.

[DaraSue]

If you replaced the crush washers there shouldn't be a problem. They bed into the two mate surfaces and seal the connection point. Leaking banjos that are at least partially tightened seep and look wet around the connection. Its rare for one to be spraying every where unless the banjo was installed wrong from the start. This wouldn't become a problem a month later but more or less immediately.

Thanks, I'll breathe slightly easier now. Still carrying around two fire extinguishers plus the BlazeCut just in case, haha...

[Delorean Industries]

Can never be too safe!

[Bitsyncmaster]

Ed Uding offers a whole set of copper washers for the fuel lines:

https://www.delorean.eu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=19_152_157&products_id=157002&osCsid=t1r200p1c5qeocdle17lj3ojd1

Don't know if you could find them cheaper locally.

Hervey had a kit also. I've looked for bulk buy but could not find any good deals. I bought a bunch from McMaster-carr but they are still pricey for just being a copper washer.

[Gregadeth]

plus the BlazeCut just in case, haha...Do you have a pic of this installed? I'm curious how you fasten it to the engine cover.

[DaraSue]

Do you have a pic of this installed? I'm curious how you fasten it to the engine cover.

There's one here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?14384-BlazeCut-(automatic-fire-suppressor)-installation&p=207724&viewfull=1#post207724

It attaches with zipties through the vents. Dave Tavres contacted the manufacturer recently and they confirmed what we already suspected which is that it won't be super effective in a vented/open space like our engine bay but I'm crossing my fingers that if something happens it'll buy me enough time to get a real extinguisher back there and maybe keep a couple grand worth of damage from turning into a complete smoking ruin.:paranoid:

[Gregadeth]

There's one here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?14384-BlazeCut-(automatic-fire-suppressor)-installation&p=207724&viewfull=1#post207724

It attaches with zipties through the vents. Dave Tavres contacted the manufacturer recently and they confirmed what we already suspected which is that it won't be super effective in a vented/open space like our engine bay but I'm crossing my fingers that if something happens it'll buy me enough time to get a real extinguisher back there and maybe keep a couple grand worth of damage from turning into a complete smoking ruin.:paranoid:Cool, I didn't even realize there was a whole thread about it already. Thanks!

[WHO1DMC]

There's one here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?14384-BlazeCut-(automatic-fire-suppressor)-installation&p=207724&viewfull=1#post207724

It attaches with zipties through the vents. Dave Tavres contacted the manufacturer recently and they confirmed what we already suspected which is that it won't be super effective in a vented/open space like our engine bay but I'm crossing my fingers that if something happens it'll buy me enough time to get a real extinguisher back there and maybe keep a couple grand worth of damage from turning into a complete smoking ruin.:paranoid:[/QUOTE

Yuup same here.

Dave B.

[dn010]

Here is how I did mine. I drilled small holes in the ribs underneath. Obviously I have extremely far less places that I can have a fuel leak, but I too have it as a "just in case" with hopes that it buys a moment to either get out or get the extinguisher ready.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?13659-Another-DeLorean-Fire!&p=197273&viewfull=1#post197273