Gas in oil pan....

[coreydmc]

I was recently having a issue with my car not starting for quite some time now. I finally found out that my starter solenoid was no good. It wasnt sending enough volts to the ballast resistor to start the car. While I was under the car today installing the new starter I noticed gas dripping from the exhaust crossover pipe. When I drained the oil it was thin and smelled like gas. The oil overfilled my catch pan. Im guessing by 2-3 quarts or so. Overtime, of me trying to start the car to remedy the problem I kept flooding it. Are Deloreans prone when have starting issues that they flood easily and the fuel ends up in the oil? Im sure that while I was trying to start the car and it was flooding that's not good for the pistons, rings or cylinders. Luckily I never drove the car. I did have it idling about 3 weeks ago for 15 mins but I never drove the car. Should I replace oil with 20-50 conventional and new filter, start car for awhile, than drain oil and filter again? Is there anything else I should do before I start it again? Would this damage my oil pump? I just hope the engine did not suffer catastrophic damage.........

[DMC-81]

I'm glad that you found the problem. Yes, I would change the oil and filter at least once.

[Ron]

$.02

When it's not VERY cold out and the engine is in good shape otherwise, it should usually start w/o the starter sending more power for the coil. (Consider push starting due to a weak battery...)
That is A LOT of fuel to find in the oil! More than I would ever expect due to a no start-no spark problem. I would guess that at least one cylinder is/was severely washed out (bad injector), if not all (FD, PPR, etc. problem).

If you haven't, I'd strongly suggest you don't start it before you: confirm that the injectors are acting normal, replace the filter and oil (with what you normally run in it), pull the plugs (inspect closely), give each cylinder a couple of squirts of oil, disable the spark and fuel pump, bump the engine over several times (pausing between each), reassemble all, start the engine, warm it up at idle, change the oil and filter again (warm), warm the engine up again then put a few easy miles on it and change the oil and filter yet again.

Yes it could have damaged the oil pump and a lot more. More likely are the rings (part of why you squirt oil in the cylinders), cam lobes, bearings...Time will tell.
But it is good that you only let it idle...

If you are lucky, the O2 sensor will clean up after a while (i.e. don't be surprised if it smokes and runs like crap at first).

Curious as to how many times it has failed to start in a row now??

[dn010]

You should also do a compression test at this point.

The oil pump is nothing more than a couple of gears rotating. I'd be more concerned about bearing surfaces or washed cylinders before the pump.

[Ron]

You should also do a compression test at this point. Good idea...after shooting some oil in the cylinders tho.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I was recently having a issue with my car not starting for quite some time now. I finally found out that my starter solenoid was no good. It wasnt sending enough volts to the ballast resistor to start the car. While I was under the car today installing the new starter I noticed gas dripping from the exhaust crossover pipe. When I drained the oil it was thin and smelled like gas. The oil overfilled my catch pan. Im guessing by 2-3 quarts or so. Overtime, of me trying to start the car to remedy the problem I kept flooding it. Are Deloreans prone when have starting issues that they flood easily and the fuel ends up in the oil? Im sure that while I was trying to start the car and it was flooding that's not good for the pistons, rings or cylinders. Luckily I never drove the car. I did have it idling about 3 weeks ago for 15 mins but I never drove the car. Should I replace oil with 20-50 conventional and new filter, start car for awhile, than drain oil and filter again? Is there anything else I should do before I start it again? Would this damage my oil pump? I just hope the engine did not suffer catastrophic damage.........

Don't use 20-50wt. I recommend 15-40wt for the retention of Zinc and Phosphate compounds legislated out of the other weights. There are other threads that deal with this at length.
Rob

[Ron]

Don't use 20-50wt. I recommend 15-40wt for the retention of Zinc and Phosphate compounds legislated out of the other weights. There are other threads that deal with this at length.
Rob+1

Rob is right (Good catch, thx!) -- When suggesting you use what you normally run in it, I was thinking about the amount of fuel and time it has had to combine with and/or break down deposits inside your engine, etc., and the negative affects changing types at this point might have. I.E. No need to add more ingrediants to the cocktail.

15W-40 comes in many flavors, so not knowing what you were using and to avoid yet another "Oil thread" derailment (NOT in this thread ;-) I'm going to say don't change types and avoid high detergent (for now).

[coreydmc]

Hello Everyone. By the time I saw this thread I already changed the oil with 20-50 and installed a new filter. I pulled and cleaned the plugs. But before I re-installed the plugs I squirted a few squirts of oil into each cylinder. Then I cranked engine over a few times and installed plugs. I re-connected the coil wire, cold start valve, and the RPM relay. I was now ready to start the engine. First try it fired right up but would not idle on its own without stalling so I kept mt foot on the pedal around 1000 rpm for 10 seconds. When I took my foot off the pedal to see if it would idle it stalled. The exhaust had a lot of white smoke from the residual fuel burning off. After that I couldn't get it to start again. I pulled the plugs again and they were wet. Seems like the cylinders are getting to much fuel and flooding. How wet should the plugs be after cranking a few times with a no start? Should I see fuel in the spark plug hole? After pulling the plugs to clean them should I remove the CSV wire to prevent flooding or does that need to be plugged in for a cold engine to start when its below 30 degrees outside? I never did a compression test before. Can I pick a cheap one up at harbor freight or NAPA? Ill try and do that tomorrow..... Right now the battery is on the tender to charge for the night.....
Thanks in advance

[David T]

If you are flooding the motor with that much fuel you should check to see if the plunger in the fuel distributor is stuck.

[coreydmc]

If you are flooding the motor with that much fuel you should check to see if the plunger in the fuel distributor is stuck.

I will check this!!

[coreydmc]

Can you please give me a few pointers on how to check the plunger? I am checking google and forum but i cannot tell how to check it....

I found this: One of the few maintenance procedures possible is to free the center plunger in case it is frozen in its channel. This will not necessarily fix the problem, but may only change the symptoms. A stuck plunger is typically observed as an air input metering flap that is either frozen in the closed position, or never develops any pressure with the engine running, and the very rich condition mentioned above.

With the fuel distributor removed from the engine, pull on the plunger with needle-nosed pliers. The plunger is VERY hard so this will not damage it. If the plunger does not come out with some effort, STOP and get another fuel distributor. If the plunger does come out, clean it up with solvent, use some cotton swabs to clean out the passage (DO NOT pour solvent into the unit!) and reassemble. CAUTION: dropping the plunger on a concrete floor will damage it and it will no longer move freely in the bore. Be careful!

My air metering flap moves up and down freely. Is it possible to test the air metering plate pressure if the engine wont start? I need to remove the fuel distributor to see if the plunger moves freely correct? Can I see the plunger once the fuel dist is removed?

[coreydmc]

55249

Is the plunger behind the 16mm nut in this picture?

[sdg3205]

55249

Is the plunger behind the 16mm nut in this picture?

No, thats a different plunger. Don't pull that. Main plunger articulates off the metering plate up the middle.

[dn010]

You can remove an injector, place it in a bottle and then jump the fuel pump. If it is spraying fuel when you jump the pump then the plunger is stuck. If it isn't spraying (it may drip), you can test the plunger by pushing on the air meter plate. It will begin to spray fuel if you press it down. Keep in mind, you will have only one injector in a bottle - unless you remove them all and point them into bottles or containers, they'll ALL be spraying fuel into their cylinders. Also, you should feel some resistance pressing the plate down with the fuel system charged up to pressure (engine not running), if you don't feel anything and the plate just pops down and back up easily when charged then it's more than likely stuck.


If your car has sat for a long time with ethanol fuel charged in its lines, then there is a chance, even with a free plunger, that the o-rings are shot in the fuel distributor. When I had K jet and after sitting for a length of time, my engine would spew white smoke and even drip raw fuel. I disassembled the FD to find some o-rings had turned into goo.

[DMC-81]

If you are flooding the motor with that much fuel you should check to see if the plunger in the fuel distributor is stuck.

I think there is an echo here. :)


Hmm.. Because it has been sitting for a long time and you smell fuel, I wonder if the plunger in the fuel distributor has gummed up a bit causing it to stick, or a similar fuel related problem. Maybe others can chime in on the correct way to test for this.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?16180-Car-will-not-start-smell-fuel


Corey, I'm glad that you're on the right track. I know it's frustrating to chase an elusive problem. I think that the fuel systems in these cars can gum up quite quickly if not driven or run often. Speaking of fuel, I only use non-ethanol fuel in the D to prevent problems like the one Dan mentioned. Even in my 2006 daily driver, I had to replace the whole fuel tank because of a rubber gasket that was not rated for ethanol fuel.

[coreydmc]

Thank you for all your help! I was able to remove the fuel distributor. Those flat head pan screws were a pain. I hope using a hammer and impact driver didnt damage the fuel dist. The plunger was stuck but I pulled it right out with pliers. I will clean it up and re-install when I receive parts from PJ Grady. Rob Grady was awesome taking the time today on the phone to answer a few questions I had. I hope the plunger is my only problem for now. Only time will tell. Once I receive new o-rings etc.. I will report back!
Thank you everyone for your help it is greatly appreciated!

[David T]

If the plunger is stuck it is a sign that the fuel in the whole system has gone bad. You should empty the fuel tank, wipe it out, and inspect all of the internal parts. The injectors should be cleaned and tested. Just unsticking the plunger usually doesn't do it. Running very rich also contaminates the O2 sensor and it should be replaced.

[DMC VIN 6639]

If the engine starts and runs with no issue, what contributors can allow fuel into the oil. I just dropped my oil and I think there is fuel in it. It seems thin and smells like fuel. I think the previous owner had adjust the mixture screw. My thoughts are to check dwell, but I am curious what other failure modes to chase???

[Rich]

If the engine starts and runs with no issue, what contributors can allow fuel into the oil. I just dropped my oil and I think there is fuel in it. It seems thin and smells like fuel. I think the previous owner had adjust the mixture screw. My thoughts are to check dwell, but I am curious what other failure modes to chase???

You may not have a problem. Maybe there isn't excess fuel in the oil - a bit of it's allowable. Piston rings aren't perfect seals in any IC engine.

Recommending you get the old oil checked first to be sure, especially since the engine starts and runs fine. Analysis will tell you if there is excess fuel; also will report whether viscosity is OK. Costs about $30.

Links here to one engine oil analysis outfit plus an overview:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/engine-types/gasoline/#

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/engine-oil-analysis/

The most common excess-fuel-in-oil causes coincide with poor starting/running (rich fuel/air ratio and/or poor ignition) problems. Which the engine doesn't seem to have.

[David T]

The engine oil should NOT have a smell of fuel. If the motor is not running over-rich the oil would get hot enough to burn out any fuel that may have gotten into it. If it always smells of fuel you are running too rich and must figure out why. It could be a bad injector, an over-rich mixture adjustment, a stuck plunger, among many things. You say it is running well, do you know what you gas mileage is?

[dn010]

How fast do you lose rest pressure? Maybe some of your injectors are leaking once you shut the car off.