Where to get 3.0L engine bearings and oil pump?

[jangell]

Figured I'd split this out of the other thread (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?16297-Bad-squeaky-sound-probably-bent-crank-(3-0L)):

I tried to crank over my 3.0L engine conversion only to hear a loud squeaking sound. Upon disassembly, I found that all the oil was sitting in the pan, and that the rest of the engine was bone dry. There are scratches on the main bearings, but the crank itself is fine.

At this point, I'm looking to replace:
- The oil pump, or at least the spring for it (apparently the 2.8L spring works, but I don't have one)
- Main bearings
- Connecting rod bearings

My searches absolutely so far have found nothing. I've been looking for:
- ~1989 Eagle Premier, 3.0L
- ~1992 Dodge Monaco, 3.0L
- Renault Z7X engine

I can find parts for the 2.5L pretty easily, but nothing for the 3.0L. I checked the usual suspects like RockAuto, NAPA, AutoZone, and bearing makers King and MAHLE, but nothing.

Does anyone know where I can buy these parts? My worst case scenario is to buy another engine, if it comes down to it, but getting new bearings and a new pump would be a lot easier, faster and probably cheaper.

Thanks

-- Joe

[jangell]

I discovered that the 2.8L main bearings appear to be identical to the 3.0L ones -- I had one old 2.8L bearing to compare against, and they seem to be a perfect match. I'm guessing the same is true about the connecting rod bearings, too. Luckily, these are all readily available from DeLorean vendors. I'll be installing a complete set of 2.8L main bearings and connecting rod bearings this weekend, so we'll know for sure then.

dn010 had a spare oil pump for me, so I'm good there too. I looked over my notes and found that I broke a bolt in the 3.0L oil pump and couldn't get it out, so I used the seemingly-identical 2.8L pump instead. Apparently they're not as identical as I thought (the gear is a bit longer on the 3.0L pump). I'll be installing that this weekend as well, and testing it to make sure it pumps properly before I put everything back together.

-- Joe

[dn010]

Glad I could help with the pump.

From what I understand, the main bearings are the same from 2.8/3.0, but the rod bearings are different from 2.8 odd to 3.0...

[jangell]

From what I understand, the main bearings are the same from 2.8/3.0, but the rod bearings are different from 2.8 odd to 3.0...

Unfortunately, I didn't have any old 2.8L connecting rods to compare against -- just the one main bearing I hadn't recycled yet. Given the split journals I was wondering if the connecting rod bearings were different, but I figured I'd take the chance.

I have no idea where I'd get 3.0L connecting rod bearings from, though -- the DMC ones were my best shot. I haven't looked at the connecting rod bearings in detail yet, so maybe they're not too bad and I can reuse them. It was $65 for a set of 2.8L bearings, so it's not a huge monetary loss if they don't work.

Thanks

-- Joe

[dn010]

According to the photo I have of my B280F rods I have for sale, they may still have the bearings on them. If all else fails and you are unable to find them anywhere, I can pull them. They look like the have some wear however...

[jangell]

According to the photo I have of my B280F rods I have for sale, they may still have the bearings on them. If all else fails and you are unable to find them anywhere, I can pull them. They look like the have some wear however...

The question is if they have more wear than mine. :) I'll see what I come up with this weekend, since I'll be pulling the crank and checking all the bearings for the first time then. To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if the wear on my existing bearings is enough to have warranted replacing them, given what I've seen searching the net. It seems to come down to "is it leaking oil?", and if it's not there isn't necessarily a need to replace the it.

It would be nice if car parts were sold by dimension instead of by car, but I also understand why they do it the way they do.

-- Joe

[dn010]

In a perfect world, you'd use new bearings regardless while you're in there, but when you're limited to what you can get, you gotta do what you gotta do in a pinch. Let us know what it looks like this weekend. I'm hoping for the best, good luck!

[David T]

In a perfect world, you'd use new bearings regardless while you're in there, but when you're limited to what you can get, you gotta do what you gotta do in a pinch. Let us know what it looks like this weekend. I'm hoping for the best, good luck!

If you intend to reuse a bearing at least check clearances with Plasitgage and use assembly lube. Wouldn't hurt to also "mike" the crank and rub it with crocus cloth.

[jangell]

I picked up some Plastigage last night (at the insistence of my mechanic friend), and then googled around to figure out how it works. :) I also have assembly lube on the way. We'll be sure to go over the crank and prep it before re-installing everything. I'm not quite sure what "miking" is, but I'm guessing my friend does.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I picked up some Plastigage last night (at the insistence of my mechanic friend), and then googled around to figure out how it works. :) I also have assembly lube on the way. We'll be sure to go over the crank and prep it before re-installing everything. I'm not quite sure what "miking" is, but I'm guessing my friend does.

Thanks!

-- Joe

Plastigauge is used on the rod and main bearings to determine tolerances. You lay a piece across the bearing and install the cap and torque to spec. Then you remove the bearing cap and measure the width of the flattened plastigauge with a calipers to determine if the bearing clearance is within specs.
Rob Grady

[Ron]

Plastigauge is used on the rod and main bearings to determine tolerances. You lay a piece across the bearing and install the cap and torque to spec. Then you remove the bearing cap and measure the width of the flattened plastigauge with a calipers to determine if the bearing clearance is within specs.
Rob GradyIf Rob wasn't burning the midnight oil, I think he might of said-
The journal diameter and a formula is used to determine tolerances (supplied by the engine manufacturer).
For a typical street car:
Cmin = 0.0005 x D
Cmax = 0.001 x D
D = actual journal diameter

You lay a piece across the journal, install the cap (or housing) and torque to specs. Then you remove the cap and match the width of the flattened plastigauge to one of a series of marks on the printed calibrated scale supplied. The clearance indicated by the matching mark must be within Cmin and CMax.

=======

Miking, or mic'ing, is simply using a micrometer to measure the diameter of the journals. The measurements must be within specs (also supplied by the manufacturer). If the journals are large or used, it is very important to measure each one in several places...

HAVE FUN!

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Plastigauge is used on the rod and main bearings to determine tolerances. You lay a piece across the bearing and install the cap and torque to spec. Then you remove the bearing cap and measure the width of the flattened plastigauge with a calipers to determine if the bearing clearance is within specs.
Rob Grady


If Rob wasn't burning the midnight oil, I think he might of said-
The journal diameter and a formula is used to determine tolerances (supplied by the engine manufacturer).
For a typical street car:
Cmin = 0.0005 x D
Cmax = 0.001 x D
D = actual journal diameter

You lay a piece across the journal, install the cap (or housing) and torque to specs. Then you remove the cap and match the width of the flattened plastigauge to one of a series of marks on the printed calibrated scale supplied. The clearance indicated by the matching mark must be within Cmin and CMax.

=======

Miking, or mic'ing, is simply using a micrometer to measure the diameter of the journals. The measurements must be within specs (also supplied by the manufacturer). If the journals are large or used, it is very important to measure each one in several places...

HAVE FUN!
Much more eloquent and accurate. So much oil...so little time. Carry on!
Rob

[Ron]

Much more eloquent and accurate. So much oil...so little time. Carry on!
Rob
:)

Too many irons....Need another fire.

[jangell]

Took me a while, but I'm reporting back!

Main bearing swap (2.8L bearings to the 3.0L crank) went well. My friend was able to slide the bearings in without having to completely pull the crank, and everything went together without a problem. Plastigauge with the new bearings showed the clearance to be dead in the middle of what it should be. As others mentioned, The 2.8L connecting rod bearings are definitely not compatible with the 3.0L rods, so we used the existing bearings, but they appeared to be in better shape than the crank bearings, and again showed good clearances with Plastigauge.

I'm now using the correct oil pump, and the engine appears to be delivering oil as expected. I never could get the oil sender to work properly; the 3.0L sender just causes the DMC gauge to peg to vertical, and there isn't enough room to install the DMC one in it's place on the driver's side of the engine (it's the bigger of the two DMC senders, right?). I'm planning on removing the 32mm plug blocking the port on the other side of the engine and installing it there, just because it would be nice to have a proper oil pressure reading again.

Now back to tuning, and figuring out why the header temps aren't consistent, and why one of my cats was glowing, but I've started another thread for that.

Thanks everyone!

-- Joe