doors binding in plastic trim

[Farrar]

#2613's doors have never been perfect, but in the last year or so they've started doing something that worries me: binding and scraping the plastic at both ends.

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It's the same on both sides, except that on the passenger side the door is actually sticking shut.

On both doors, there are a bunch of washers on the front striker pins and only one on the rear. On the passenger side, the striker pin was binding badly so it's been ground down partly, but the door still sticks shut.

Do these cars change shape as they age? What should I inspect? Could the roof cage be the problem? Or is it something else?

Thanks in advance.

[Morpheus]

Was your windshield recently replaced?

Is your roof box showing signs of rust?

[Farrar]

Was your windshield recently replaced?

Is your roof box showing signs of rust?

As far as I know, the windshield is original.

To check the roof box, I pull the T-panel, right? I will do that next.

Thanks!

[MikeWard]

To check the roof box, I pull the T-panel, right? I will do that next.
Remove the upper finisher (part number 105721), with that removed you can eyeball the rear of the roof box to see if it is showing signs of lifting.

Some detailed pictures can be found here: http://www.deloreaneurotec.uk/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5282

[Farrar]

Removed the rear finisher piece. It has seen better days...

It may be hard to see behind my Mickey Mouse third brake lights, but I got some photos.

Left side:

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Middle:

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Right side:

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It definitely looks like the roof box is bowing, although I don't see any evidence that it has rusted, so that's some good news to go with the bad, I suppose.

Somewhere around here, I have a set of written instructions, parts list, and photos from Toby Peterson on how to secure the roof box. I'll look those up. I think it's probably something I can do myself, or maybe with the wife helping.

Thanks, gang!

[dn010]

Agreed, you may have some roof box issues causing the front of the roof to sag allowing the doors to make contact where they shouldn't - here is a look at what mine looked like: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12499-How-concerned-should-I-be

If the windshield was separating you'd probably get a good puddle of water if you ever see rain or take a hose to the top of it.

[dn010]

Posted the above after you did. I believe these may be helpful to you:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6490-Torsion-Bar-Reinforcement-Panel

http://www.dmcnews.com/Techsection/tbar.htm

[MikeWard]

Looks like the box has lifted from what I can see in those pictures. I would invest in a roof box repair kit like this one here https://www.deloreango.com/us/roof-box-repair-kit.html or from your vendor of choice.

[Farrar]

Thank you, everyone!

I located the instructions from Toby Peterson. When I get the time and materials, I will report back. :thumbup:

[powerline84]

My car had the same issues. My roof box was popped . I fixed it . Also had windshield replaced. Even with all that being that mine is an earlier car the doors aren't near as nice as a 5000 series car for example.

[Morpheus]

To check the roof box, I pull the T-panel, right? I will do that next.

Thanks!

Yes, to check the inside of the roof box, you will need to pull the T-Panel and remove the cover plate for the door wiring. Then, you can get one of those small inspection cameras (or your phone camera if it will fit) down in there and take some pics.

You may see something that looks like this:
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On this particular box, there was really no external evidence of any issues whatsoever. If your car spent any good amount of time outside during it's existence, this can easily happen.

[Farrar]

Pulled the T-Panel today. It came off very easily with a trim stick. It looks like some work was done underneath this panel before, and it was not sealed very well afterward:

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Looks like some welding was done above the driver-side torsion bar bracket. You can also see two large pop-rivets in this photo:

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These two rivets are absent on the passenger side. Only one was installed, and it has fallen out:

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The cover plate for the wiring harness connectors is rusty, as I imagined it would be:

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All in all, it doesn't look terrible. But it doesn't look fantastic, either. That repair on the driver's side makes me nervous.

[Farrar]

On a related note, what size are the six sheet metal screws (three per side) that fasten the T-Panel to the edge just behind the doors? Two of mine seem questionable, so I'd like to replace them.

[dn010]

You should be more concerned with what it looks like inside there access, then you’ll know whether it’s giving out or still has life left. I can’t help with the screw size, I used nuts/bolts to anchor mine from the top down to the inside.

Edit- I see you’re talking about the screws for the panel, I found a size that was pretty close, I will look at what they are as soon as I can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Farrar]

Thanks, Dan.

If needed, I will shotgun the box. I may also buy an NOS rubber pad from DMC for underneath the T-Panel since those are available and mine looks misshapen. (Or I may try to roll my own out of slightly-compressible closed-cell foam if I am feeling adventurous.)

Won't get the time to do the work until next week, so for now all I can do is plan and make a shopping list. ;)

[Farrar]

Had a look at roof box motion when the doors were opening and closing. Surprisingly little movement, even though to my eye it looks like the driver-side torsion bar bracket sits significantly higher than the passenger-side bracket.

The passenger door is the one that has a low, horror-movie-door squeak, and sticks unless the rear striker pin (already using no washers and ground to half its usual thickness) is removed entirely. The roof box appears to move very slightly on the passenger side, toward the outside. Upon cleaning the area I can see that the seal there between the metal and the plastic (black goop of some kind - urethane or RTV, perhaps) has broken due to this movement.

Convention has it that the roof box should be 100% parallel to the rear window glass. I will see how much it actually does move when I tighten down the bolts.

As long as I have access, I will probably also look very carefully at the gas strut mounts. The small plate welded onto the driver's side of the roof box was probably done because someone overtorqued the bar and ended up snapping off a weld nut. Previous repair probably involved cutting an access hole, welding a new nut in, and then welding a plate back on. Overtorqued bar also probably means doors flying up too fast at a certain point. There are some strut mount brackets available from the UK which look nice to me, and part of the purchase price goes to a charity of my choice. Seems an attractive option to me.

[Farrar]

Hardware for the roof cage arrived today: 3/8" hex bolts, nylock nuts, plus washers for top (small) and bottom (large), all in 316 stainless steel.

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The bolts are 3.25" long, so I do expect to have to shorten them once installed.

[powerline84]

That's what I did . Best repair option in my opinion . Use a cut off wheel and trim bolt flush with nut. Use grinding wheel and smooth them out. Seal top and bottom with tiger bond or right stuff etc.

[Farrar]

Seal top and bottom with tiger bond or right stuff etc.

I was just going to use the same black urethane they use for windshields. Is that the same as "tiger bond"?

[powerline84]

Any kind of eurothane sealant

[Farrar]

Any kind of eurothane sealant

Awesome. Thanks!

[Farrar]

New discovery:

I thought the roof box was all one piece, but apparently, it isn't. The area just behind the electrical access panel flexes easily enough for me to press it down (and then it springs back up). There's a seam there, and I can see the metal on one side of the seam moving and the area on the other side not moving.

Sealant is gooped over that seam, so I can't tell if there's any overlap. Can anyone enlighten me as to whether there's an overlap there? Should I worry about that flexing motion or leave it be?

Thanks in advance.

[Farrar]

I guess a photo would help...

Looks like the seam/join runs all the way across the roof box between the doors, right at the rear corners.

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[dn010]

From what I understand, and correct me if I am wrong, there is a front piece, a rear piece and then the piece in the middle that overlaps the two. I am not sure how much integrity adding the glue would give, but it's definitely needed for weatherproofing. If you open the door and look at the middle piece, you should see the metal overlap at the sides/ends if there isn't a ton of sealant over it.

[powerline84]

It's fine just seal it .

[Farrar]

Thanks for the info, everyone. I'll just remove any loose sealant, scrape away the rest, and have at it Dunmurry-style with new goop. :)

[Farrar]

Well, I installed and tightened the nuts & bolts in the roof cage today and solved zero problems. The doors are still binding in the plastic at the front, and the passenger door still creaks like a horror-movie door and gets bound up on the rear striker pin.

At least I have the satisfaction of knowing that the roof cage won't raise in the rear anymore. I did see it move down slightly while I was tightening the fasteners.

And the clip pulled out of the headliner, so #2613 is now without rear headliner. Gotta love working on these cars: try to solve one problem, fail to do so and create a new problem. LOL

[Gary]

My doors did the same thing. There is nothing holding the leading edge of the doors except the seals which are collapsing under the weight. As that happens owners will start to adjust the striker pins lower to make a tighter seal. An so on. I bought a couple of hood bumper supports and installed them with a couple of blind nuts.

[Farrar]

Thanks, Gary! I like that solution.

I finished the "roof cage fix" tonight, slowly tightening the fasteners until they wouldn't travel any more and covering them with black RTV (my tribute to Dunmurry water sealant). Closed both doors and locked them, so in the morning we'll see how they open. Seems like the doors latched and locked more easily, but it could have been placebo effect. If the passenger door still sticks shut, I will have to investigate another solution.

For the front of the doors dipping too low, I really like Gary's solution.

[Farrar]

I had forgotten that the torsion bars remaining installed would create some resistance while torquing down the fasteners. So I tightened them until they essentially bottomed out. Good results: doors are no longer binding into the plastic at the front (although to raise them slightly I like Gary's solution) and after adjusting the striker pins the passenger door is no longer sticking shut. Awesome sauce! :D

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