View Full Version : Bye-Bye angle drive!
After my 4th angle drive died on me I decided to take a different approach.
I ordered one of these:
https://i.imgur.com/W1RLXzY.jpg
https://www.speedhut.com/ecommerce/product/2585/SpeedBox-GPS-VSS-to-Mechanical-Drive-Speed-Converter
w/ the GM style Clip on cable.
the price is a little steep, but so is buying a new angle drive every year, just to have it break after 2000miles.
Installation was very easy. It could be mounted where the lambda counter is, I chose to mount it on top of my evaporator box.
The speedo cable snaps right in. I mounted the GPS antenna on top of the radio bracket (out of sight when the console is installed). It only requires a switched power and ground so those were tapped into the 12V outlet circuit. There is an additional VSS output that can be used to drive a cruise control unit, this is a problem with installing cruise on a delorean, you have to put those cheesy magnets on a driveshaft.
https://i.imgur.com/ZlHiqNn.jpg
All in all I am very satisfied. The speed can be calibrated so it reads very accurate, more so than stock.
Hopefully this helps someone else out!
refugeefromcalif
07-04-2018, 03:56 PM
How does this work in tunnels and areas where you can't get/don't have a good GPS signal?
That's the issue that I hate about anything satellite based.
In Alabama, (Yes we Are backwards on Many things), my XMS radio loses signal whenever we have stormy weather, (Also going behind Tall trees in ANY weather)...
George
Gregadeth
07-04-2018, 03:59 PM
Nice. This is something I'd be considering when my angle drive eventually fails. There's also a similar device that receives the GPS signal from your phone via bluetooth. By the way, you said you tapped into the 12V outlet for a 'switched on' and ground. But isn't that particular circuit 'always on', in the sense that it has power even when the car is off?
How does this work in tunnels and areas where you can't get/don't have a good GPS signal?
That's the issue that I hate about anything satellite based.
In Alabama, (Yes we Are backwards on Many things), my XMS radio loses signal whenever we have stormy weather, (Also going behind Tall trees in ANY weather)...
George
I would assume it would drop out in tunnels, It would make sense it would not work in places your satellite radio or GPS map would not work.
Nice. This is something I'd be considering when my angle drive eventually fails. There's also a similar device that receives the GPS signal from your phone via bluetooth. By the way, you said you tapped into the 12V outlet for a 'switched on' and ground. But isn't that particular circuit 'always on', in the sense that it has power even when the car is off?
You are probably correct. I lose track of the stock schematics sometimes as I have heavily modified my electrical system. Either way, there are lots of 12v switched sources in the console area, behind the stereo. This unit draws very little power so it can be tapped into most any existing circuit.
Bitsyncmaster
07-04-2018, 06:10 PM
Some GPS systems use an accelerometer to keep the speed shown working when the GPS signal drops out.
Michael
07-04-2018, 10:59 PM
I must be damn lucky. My angle drive went bad on the first day of ownership on my 900 mile drive home. I replaced it, never once oiled it and it still does just fine. That was 9 years and about 20k miles ago.
Drive Stainless
07-05-2018, 09:50 AM
If I didn't know better, I would think that this mod meant you actually cared how fast you were going in that ~400HP monster.
You should probably find a way to shut down the circuit once you've exceeded the speedometer max (85 MPH). That way, the unit will only be operating for 6 or 7 seconds each time you come to a stop. Maybe Bitsyncmaster can help you with that.
:race::rock_on::evilgrin::rollin:
nkemp
07-05-2018, 04:33 PM
The 3 rotor DeLorean conversion used a speed sensor that replaced the angle drive. But as I recall, it came off a non-US Mazda car (JCCosmo ???). So, theoretically, we could find a sensor, or mod something, that used the angle drive location for an electronic speed sensor.
FABombjoy
07-05-2018, 04:41 PM
Porsche 930 VSS rings work well. This is on my own car using a 55505 gear tooth sensor and some aluminum bar stock for a bracket. Currently it only feeds Megasquirt but could also drive a speedo motor and/or cruise control unit.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180705/2e341934c9099f66c90189cba2418f2b.jpg
nkemp
07-05-2018, 05:09 PM
Porsche 930 VSS rings work well.
That is such a clean and professional looking install. I like that!
Anything special about the sensor?
FABombjoy
07-05-2018, 05:47 PM
It's a pretty simple to use type of hall effect sensor that works on 5-24v, rated up to 125C, and detects ferrous metal:
http://m.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/datasheets/hall_effect_sensors/littelfuse_hall_effect_sensors_55505_datasheet.pdf .pdf
I have these on my crank & cam pickups too.
The ring came from an eBay / Amazon seller and was only $14. Mounting bracket is just some bent up some aluminum stock and fastened to the trans via an unused threaded hole. I strategically hacksawed the ring in half so I didn't have to dismount the CV axle. I just eyeballed the air gap as the angle isn't totally perpendicular and it worked the first time out.
A setup like this can supplement the Speedbox or perhaps interface to a less featureful speedo driver motor. But the Speedbox has some quality features and now Josh has taken the testing leap for all of us :)
The issue is not the speed sensor (in my opinion). It is the lack of electronic speedometer.
Sure you have a speed signal, but it can only easily be input to a secondary device (ecu, cruise control unit)
This speedometer driver is an easy way out of both cases.
There was a gentleman that used a VW Golf (or similar) speed sensor and screwed it in place of the angle drive. But as mentioned this is only half the battle.
nkemp
07-05-2018, 07:32 PM
What we need is to find a speedo that could be put behind the D's speedo faceplate. The trouble I found was finding a modern speedo/drive motor/etc that accepted the D's needles.
Air-core motors are often used to drive speedometers and tachs and an Arduino can be used to provide the logic (clicks to speedometer readout). But again. I didn't make progress relative to reusing the D's needle. It would be easy enough to change out the needles but that wouldn't be authentic.
I also was not happy with what I found relative to creating a VSS signal. Above would be perfect.
jangell
07-05-2018, 07:39 PM
I'm interested in all of this. A quick search found another seller of the ring for $38 (https://www.pacificcustoms.com/ac957812.html). I always have trouble finding this stuff; I never know what search terms to use. I wouldn't have known to look for a ring from a Porsche, or what kind of connector the speedo cable needed to get the box Josh is using.
-- Joe
And I thought I over-complicate things, you two put me to shame!
Haha, I love it.
FABombjoy
07-05-2018, 08:59 PM
This is what I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EQ29PAO
If you wanted to be real economical, replace the CV bolts with allen head bolts (to maintain an even air gap) and just point the sensor at the bolt heads. 6 pulses/revolution would still give decent enough resolution. Or rotate the hex bolts so the flats have the same alignment :D
But yes Josh is right, electronic speed pickup is only half the equation and certainly the easier / cheaper side to make happen. With a ring & sensor add-on the lost-GPS issue is resolved. I don't believe the Speedbox has any sort of accelerometer or the instructions would be picky about mounting orientation.
Principally I installed the sensor so I could log speed and have real-time power / economy calculations and set per-gear boost targets, but can now read vehicle speed via CAN bus gauge so I have my 'away from home angle drive failure' sorted. The AD on my car will be the last - it'll be all electronic from here on out.
Nicholas R
07-06-2018, 12:02 PM
According the speedbox's website, the unit can receive GPS signals, VSS signals, and CAN-bus signals. If the GPS dropout really became a huge problem, you could always swap over to a different input methodology. Looks like Dakota Digital makes a similar product with similar inputs, though it would appear the dakot digital unit is a lot larger and bulkier than the speedbox one.
With that said, is the tunnel dropout a big problem for some folks?
Jonathan
07-06-2018, 12:34 PM
With that said, is the tunnel dropout a big problem for some folks?
I would think the benefit of having your cluster speedo working would be that it'll also spin your odometer and tripmeter. Having your odometer and tripmeter showing miles traveled lets you at the very least see what kind of gas mileage you're getting (and realizing you've got some sort of problem when that mileage gets out of whack, i.e. troubleshooting help). Like an extra layer of protection for trouble if your fuel sender dies, for example.
Using the speed shown on a regular GPS or a phone app or the BTTF looking speedo box will tell you what speed you're going, but won't do much for your odometer reading. Personally, I like seeing the odo move along with the speedo.
If the signal drops out for a little while in a tunnel or when you first get in the car and it hasn't acquired a signal yet, it doesn't matter much for the driver not knowing exactly how fast they are going for that brief amount of time. My concern would be the odometer not counting in those times. Again, not for some legality or carfax business if you go to sell your car some day and there's concern over whether the miles shown are accurate. I simply like having the odo working with the speedo.
nkemp
07-06-2018, 01:00 PM
How quiet/noisy is the above unit? I've read up on other similar units (No GPS) and some indicated that it was noisy.
vwdmc16
07-06-2018, 06:33 PM
Josh said he cant hear it while driving, but his exhaust isnt very quiet I think he said.
I think its a awesome solve for one of the longest lingering Delorean problem. This box should also be perfect for my engine swapped '75 volvo, no room to get a cable between the larger than original trans and tunnel to power the stock mechanical speedo. The new trans (old Ford T5) has an electronic VSS on the tail housing that should work great to give a solid signal to the Speedbox.
I wonder if you have a VSS input and GPS input to that box, which signal gets priority if the two disagree? Say if I was doing a second gear burnout but the car wasnt actually moving.
Tomcio
07-07-2018, 08:48 PM
[...]
I wonder if you have a VSS input and GPS input to that box, which signal gets priority if the two disagree? Say if I was doing a second gear burnout but the car wasnt actually moving.
According to the Speedbox manual the GPS signal will override other signals - VSS or CAN. So, if GPS is available the speed will be taken from that. Only when GPS is not available (before satellite lock, in tunnels, etc) the speed is taken from vehicle sensors.
During a burnout with good GPS signal the speedometer will actually show zero if the car is not moving.
It seems to be a very cleverly designed piece of hardware. I like it a lot!
bfloyd
07-20-2018, 09:52 AM
I mounted the GPS antenna on top of the radio bracket (out of sight when the console is installed).
When I mounted my GPS tracking unit in my car, it came with both a cellular antenna and a GPS antenna. The GPS antenna was just a small flat square shaped gizmo with adhesive foam on the back side. I was able to mount both antennas UNDER the plastic grill below the windshield wipers. It has a clear view of the sky and you can't see it from outside the car. Just wanted to throw that out there as an alternative location if the top of the radio bracket doesn't work out.
nkemp
07-20-2018, 11:06 AM
Another benefit of having a VSS signal, given the right radio, is speed variable volume. I like that feature on modern cars/radios.
Can you attach the vehicle’s existing speedo cable from the speedometer to the Speedbox (unplug it from the Labmda counter and attach it to the Speedbox)?
Can you attach the vehicle’s existing speedo cable from the speedometer to the Speedbox (unplug it from the Labmda counter and attach it to the Speedbox)?
No, as it has a different end on the Speedbox. The speedbox comes with the proper cable though.
No, as it has a different end on the Speedbox. The speedbox comes with the proper cable though.
Thank you. I guess my next question is how tough is it to get to the back of the speedometer? I noticed my needle swinging all over the place the other day and this Speedbox looks like the way to go. Have you been happy with yours?
Thank you. I guess my next question is how tough is it to get to the back of the speedometer? I noticed my needle swinging all over the place the other day and this Speedbox looks like the way to go. Have you been happy with yours?
You need to remove the binnacle to get to the back of the speedo (easily)
I have only had it on my car for about 1500 miles but it has worked well so far.
You need to remove the binnacle to get to the back of the speedo (easily)
I have only had it on my car for about 1500 miles but it has worked well so far.
Thanks
I’m installing this unit now and will probably do a write up on it, but I wanted to mention that I don’t think mounting this to the Lambda counter bracket will work. The Speedbox speedo cable is too long.
I’ve figured out an alternative mounting solution. I’ll have a write up soon. Thanks Josh for bringing this product to my attention. I think this is a great alternative to the failure prone angle drive.
For those that are interested, I have a full installation write up here:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17195-How-to-install-GPS-based-speedometer-drive&highlight=Angle+drive
I chose a different location than Josh to make installation easier. The new location also allows for easier calibration of the unit and replacement of a defective unit.
For those that are interested, I have a full installation write up here:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17195-How-to-install-GPS-based-speedometer-drive&highlight=Angle+drive
I chose a different location than Josh to make installation easier. The new location also allows for easier calibration of the unit and replacement of a defective unit.
Right on! I was considering mounting it there - not sure why i didn't. Looks great.
Right on! I was considering mounting it there - not sure why i didn't. Looks great.
Thanks! I spent quite a bit of time looking around that area before I discovered that bolt.
Just rewired the speedbox to the VSS output of my ECU, essentially making it not dependent on GPS.
megamanex
05-25-2020, 11:24 AM
Hey Josh,
How did you wire it to the ECU, any directions or tips?
Or are you on the LS engine, not a PRV and have a different ECU?
Hey Josh,
How did you wire it to the ECU, any directions or tips?
Or are you on the LS engine, not a PRV and have a different ECU?
Yes this is not relevant to a stock application unfortunately.
joshg
03-31-2021, 02:53 PM
There's also a similar device that receives the GPS signal from your phone via bluetooth.
Anyone know anything more about this alternative to the Speedbox unit? Interested in the tradeoffs
There are no alternatives for our car that work better than speed box and/or are cheaper.
Christian Dietrich
05-07-2021, 02:29 PM
Alot of people like to pick on me cause I updated practically everything on my car but refuse to change out my original angle drive with 68k miles. I use 10w40 synthetic oil in for the last 17 years plus I still have the original and refreshed Lambda counter and cables and still use the Lambda light for service LOL! I guess im one of those weird guys that loves that old tech. I dont thing the SpeedBox would work well were I live in the mountains. There is alot of areas that loss signal.
Helirich
05-08-2021, 11:31 AM
Alot of people like to pick on me cause I updated practically everything on my car but refuse to change out my original angle drive with 68k miles. I use 10w40 synthetic oil in for the last 17 years plus I still have the original and refreshed Lambda counter and cables and still use the Lambda light for service LOL! I guess im one of those weird guys that loves that old tech. I dont thing the SpeedBox would work well were I live in the mountains. There is alot of areas that loss signal.
I haven't looked at mine. (It works) When you say you use 10-40, is that in the angle drive or the cable itself? How often do you oil it? Also, is there any "stop" in the oem speedo? Twice I put my foot on the floor and got to 85 and stopped. Both times I really couldn't keep my foot in it because of the road. But it seemed like I went a bit faster and the gauge didn't move. Does it not keep going in to the unmarked area? It really makes it hard for time travel.
Michael
05-09-2021, 06:43 PM
My angle drive from 12 years ago is still chugging along. I oiled it for the first time a few weeks ago. I got a small portable mini grease gun at Harbor Freight and loaded it with 90w gear oil. It will be my dedicated angle drive gun.
Im glad a three year old thread got bumped by people commenting about how great their original angle drives are.
If only they made the reproductions of a similar quality to the originals the speedbox would not be needed.
That being said I have about 20,000kms or so on my speedbox now and it works great.
Helirich
05-11-2021, 04:24 PM
My angle drive from 12 years ago is still chugging along. I oiled it for the first time a few weeks ago. I got a small portable mini grease gun at Harbor Freight and loaded it with 90w gear oil. It will be my dedicated angle drive gun.
Could you describe your "servicing" of the angle drive. I'm doing some other upgrades in that area of the car right now. Of course, I ran into some unforeseen stuff and am waiting for parts. Good time to service it. I barely looked at it, but it appears someone took a pare of pliers to it pretty good. (Or pretty bad, lol) Is there some kind of nipple on it? (Didn't notice one)
dmcman73
05-11-2021, 04:49 PM
Could you describe your "servicing" of the angle drive. I'm doing some other upgrades in that area of the car right now. Of course, I ran into some unforeseen stuff and am waiting for parts. Good time to service it. I barely looked at it, but it appears someone took a pare of pliers to it pretty good. (Or pretty bad, lol) Is there some kind of nipple on it? (Didn't notice one)
- If it is the original one then, there is a screw you remove to open a hole in the drive to add lubricant into it
- If it is one of the earlier reproduction's from DMCH it will have a grease fitting on it
- If it is one of the later reproduction's from DMCH then it will be sealed and unserviceable (you won't be able to lubricate it).
ssdelorean
05-12-2021, 12:54 PM
Im glad a three year old thread got bumped by people commenting about how great their original angle drives are.
If only they made the reproductions of a similar quality to the originals the speedbox would not be needed.
That being said I have about 20,000kms or so on my speedbox now and it works great.
The company that made the angle drive Martin Gutkowski was selling years ago have outlasted my original drives and Houstons. So far that thing is bullet proof. I heard that they were hard to work with so they stopped making them.
I wish they could work things out or a new source could make them as tough/durable as these.
I really need to update my sig. Over 235K miles now.
Helirich
05-12-2021, 04:53 PM
The company that made the angle drive Martin Gutkowski was selling years ago have outlasted my original drives and Houstons. So far that thing is bullet proof. I heard that they were hard to work with so they stopped making them.
I wish they could work things out or a new source could make them as tough/durable as these.
I really need to update my sig. Over 235K miles now.
The sig is interesting. Do you have a list of other stuff that has failed you and when? I don't care about light bulbs, but shocks, door hinges, CV joints, ball joints, etc. Do you consider yourself OCD on the car or you just "fix when needed".
ssdelorean
05-13-2021, 07:50 PM
The sig is interesting. Do you have a list of other stuff that has failed you and when? I don't care about light bulbs, but shocks, door hinges, CV joints, ball joints, etc. Do you consider yourself OCD on the car or you just "fix when needed".
I don't want to hijack this thread so I will send you a PM.
David T
05-13-2021, 09:05 PM
DMC issued a Service Bulletin adding lubricating the angle drive to the routine service. It helps a lot. You put grease into it. After all this time lubricating the cables is a good idea too. Not all speedo problems are the angle drive. Some are caused by the drive cup (aka dust cover) square hole becoming round, and some because the drive cup slips between the hub and the rim. On one car that was "eating" angle drives with some regularity, I found a post broke off inside the speedo head and the metal clip got it stuck in the workings of the speedometer because of the magnet. It added a lot of drag making the angle drive wear out prematurely. PJ Grady offers a replacement that he calls "Bulletproof". Vendors also offer a 1 piece cable eliminating the Lambda counter. Some think that the Lambda counter contributes to the failures. Make sure you have the support bracket on the left front wheel that holds the speedo cable so it doesn't hang with all it's weight on the speedo drive. Sometimes they are missing and sometimes they are broken. Some cars never have any problems with the speedo and some just seem to always have something going wrong. It does have a high failure rate, high enough so you can't always trust the odometer to have all of the actual miles on it.
DMC issued a Service Bulletin adding lubricating the angle drive to the routine service. It helps a lot. You put grease into it...
If you are talking about ST-10-10.82, it actually says, "Remove filler screw and oil with SAE 80 or 90 gear oil."
(Basically, grease is for low speed/low temp gears, unlike bearings which have free space....).
Don't fill it or you risk churning....
Helirich
05-14-2021, 09:56 AM
I guess I have the original because it has a screw. I oiled it as best I could. It would be nice if it had a grease nipple. The screw threads are too small to install one. Funny how the screw is facing down when the cable is hooked up. (Another engineer sleeping)
Side note, Thankyou SSDelorean for the PM. I really think you should post that in a seperate thread that you could update now and then. There aren't many people driving as much as you.
Nicholas R
05-14-2021, 10:26 AM
I really need to update my sig. Over 235K miles now.
1st angle drive - 58,027 miles (20 years) -- original
2nd angle drive - 48,489 miles (21 years) -- original from donor
3rd angle drive - 26,572 miles (2 years 3 months) -- DMCH
4th angle drive - 21,988 miles (1 year 11 months) -- DMCH
5th angle drive - 7,137 miles (10 months 2 days) -- DMCH
6th angle drive - OVER 96,704 miles and counting (OVER 10 yr 10 months & counting) -- new Martin Gutkowski unit
over 228K miles
Shannon I'm not sure I follow your signature. There is about 57 years listed there... Is your car actually a 1964 DeLoeran? :wink:
I'm guessing it has something to do with the 2nd angle drive. Did it only last 1 year on your car, but was 21 years old when it failed? Of course that would mean you put 48k miles on the car in a year?
ssdelorean
05-14-2021, 12:38 PM
Shannon I'm not sure I follow your signature. There is about 57 years listed there... Is your car actually a 1964 DeLoeran? :wink:
I'm guessing it has something to do with the 2nd angle drive. Did it only last 1 year on your car, but was 21 years old when it failed? Of course that would mean you put 48k miles on the car in a year?
Yeah, the miles and time listed after each angle drive are specific to the drive itself. I think I got about 14K - 16K (1yr) out of the 2nd drive during it's time in my car. My notes are not with me at the moment. The sig has a character limit so I tried to chop down as best I could.
I need to update the 6th angle drive info and the grand total (288K) of miles on my car to it's current status over 235K. I just keep forgetting to do so.
mike123
10-01-2025, 08:21 AM
Hi everyone - just curious if there's a known source for this 16-tooth ring these days. I can't seem to find one. The Pacific Customs site has a few rings available (for example https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ac957813) but no measurements for them and at least according to Google AI these are not the same diameter as the DeLorean / Porsche 930. Thanks!
Hi everyone - just curious if there's a known source for this 16-tooth ring these days. I can't seem to find one. The Pacific Customs site has a few rings available (for example https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ac957813) but no measurements for them and at least according to Google AI these are not the same diameter as the DeLorean / Porsche 930. Thanks!
This setup bolts directly on the stock 5speed transaxle.
https://lsdeloreanstore.com/collections/ls-swap-components/products/vehicle-speed-sensor
mike123
10-01-2025, 04:51 PM
Thanks Josh, the inclusion of the longer bolts in the kit answers a question I was thinking about asking as well!
I have an automatic and I am guessing from the specific mention of "5speed" on the website and in your post that this wouldn't work for me... But if it does work on automatic as well, I will happily pick it up. Thanks again!
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