Cannot separate hard line from accumulator

[DMC1890]

I have loosened the line nut, but cannot remove the hard line from the accumulator. The ferrule is solidly stuck into the fitting. And the ferrule has 'grabbed' the line such that it cannot be withdrawn (although the line will actually rotate within the fitting/ferrule).

57272

I'm considering cutting the hard line, and replacing it with a braided flex line. But I don't see how the flex line is installed. Does it follow the same path as the hard line?

[DMC-81]

Can you leave the 90 degree fitting in place and just separate the 90 degree fitting from the accumulator? That’s what I did:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40804&d=1457920784

If that helps, there are more pictures and commentary on page 4 of the Engine Restoration album on my profile.

[Mike Griese]

I am in the middle of replacing my accumulator as well. I have found it easiest to remove the flex line first. I had to cut the flex line off to get a ground down deep socket and a swivel ratchet over the barrel nut. Once that was removed, I could get two wrenches on the hard line. If you can't make it work that way, you can try to remove the other end of the swivel fitting.

[DMC-81]

Yeah, After several tries, what worked for me was a 17mm crow's foot on a socket extended by a piece of copper pipe for leverage. Then I secured the accumulator from rotating with a 17mm long wrench on the integrated nut on the other fitting. Bam, success!

[DMC1890]

Thanks Dana and Mike. I don't have 'normal' crowsfoot sockets, only 'flare' nut crowsfeet, which is what I used (with great effort) to get the hard line nut off to begin with. But Northern Tool is only a 5-minute drive from here and I'll go there first thing tomorrow. Also, I had not thought of cutting off the soft line to get better access.

This mess has been like this for 6 months, and I turned my attention to my other project cars. But your suggestion give me some hope. If I had wanted to be an ob-gyn, I would have gone to med school, but it's a bit late for that.

Thanks,
Robert

[David T]

You just have to work the accumulator back and forth to loosen that ferrule. It can be hard to do especially because of the confined space. Try bending and twisting the accumulator while holding back on the line. Whatever you do DO NOT bend, twist, or damage that hard line!

[SS Spoiler]

ob-gyn.....good one

[DMC5180]

You just have to work the accumulator back and forth to loosen that ferrule. It can be hard to do especially because of the confined space. Try bending and twisting the accumulator while holding back on the line. Whatever you do DO NOT bend, twist, or damage that hard line!

+1

I had my Accumulator replaced during a club tech session by guest expert DMC Mechanic Don Steger. Actually I did the work accept removal from the hard line. I was unfamiliar and nervous about doing it for fear of damaging the line. So he did it as I watched. All he did to remove it was support the line end with one hand, then grabbed the opposite end and gave it a quick sharp pull down rotated about the line connection. Once that initial rapid rotation broke it loose, it was just a matter of working it back and forth until it separated. Installation was no issue since you just work the new one back on enough for the nut to catch the threads and it will draw right up tight.




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[DMC1890]

Thanks for the continued suggestions. I'll bet that your club tech session had a lift available! I spent a couple of hours on it yesterday, alternating between trying to get the fittings loose with my new crowsfoot wrenches, and trying to withdraw the hardline from the fitting. BTW, Northern tool only has the flare-nut version, which I already had. Went to HF for the 'normal' crowsfeet.

I'll go try again in a while to disprove Einstein's definition of insanity.

Robert

[DMC5180]

Thanks for the continued suggestions. I'll bet that your club tech session had a lift available! I spent a couple of hours on it yesterday, alternating between trying to get the fittings loose with my new crowsfoot wrenches, and trying to withdraw the hardline from the fitting. BTW, Northern tool only has the flare-nut version, which I already had. Went to HF for the 'normal' crowsfeet.

I'll go try again in a while to disprove Einstein's definition of insanity.

Robert

Yes, it helps to have a lift. But that said, l’ve done lots of work under the with it up on Maximum extended jack stands on all 4 corners under the frame cross members not the the body jack points.


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[DMC1890]

I squeezed some 0.5" conduit to make a snugly-fitting extension to my 3/8" ratchet:
57311
I was then able to use that with the 19mm flared crowsfoot to loosen the flexible line fitting, while holding down the accumulator with a 17mm wrench, with a temporary pipe extension. The helpful thing here is that the flared crowsfoot, and the snug extension, can hang by themselves from the fitting, while you get ready with the other wrench. After removing that fitting, I was able to remove the hard-line fitting using a 17mm 'normal' crowsfoot (with the extension ratchet), while holding the accumulator with a 14mm wrench, with the temporary extension.

However, I'm still stuck with the ferrule that won't come loose from the fitting:
57312

Although I can attach the fitting to the new accumulator, I'm a little concerned that unless I unstick the ferrule to allow it to reseat into the fitting and line, that I will have leaks. Any thoughts?

Robert

[DMC5180]

Don’t worry about the ferrule fitting. That joint will remain leak free. Just retighten the line B-nut after you have it all back in place.


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[David T]

You do have to really crank on that fitting because it is steel, not brass to get it to be leaktight when you re-assemble. When tightening that fitting you are deforming that ferrule to make the joint leaktight.

[DMC-81]

Don’t worry about the ferrule fitting. That joint will remain leak free. Just retighten the line B-nut after you have it all back in place.


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+1. When you get it all back together, tightened, and fuel primed in the system, you will want to check that fitting and all the others for leaks, weeping, etc. while the car is still elevated.

A lift is awesome to have, but I did all my underside work (including gearbox R&R) with jack stands.

Glad you got it off. The accumulator is up there on the list of worst jobs because of limited access. The homemade ratchet extension and crows feet were the ticket for me.
:wrenchin:

[DMC1890]

I did spend literally hours trying to pull the fitting/ferrule from the hard line, so that now the ferrule spins freely (along with the fitting), on the hard line. That's why I'm concerned about getting a tight connection again. I will certainly pressure the system up while I have it jacked up so that I can check thoroughly for leaks. I'll see what happens.

Thanks,
Robert

[DMC1890]

Final follow up - in my case, the fatal mistake was attempting to remove the hard line from the 90-deg fitting. As DMC-81 said, you should remove the fitting from the accumulator, while leaving the hard line-to-fitting connection intact. Because I didn't have the proper tools, I thought that removing the hard line first would simplify matters. But, the continued attempts to separate the fitting from the hard line galled the hard line such that the ferrule would no longer seal sufficiently, resulting in a slow drip.

I ended up by cutting the hard line at the ferrule. I then got Hervey's barbed fitting for the accumulator output, and used a bit of high-pressure hose to connect from the accumulator to the remaining hard line. No leaks.

[David T]

The way I do it, the way I think it should be done), is to undo the hard line and then the clamp holding the accumulator. Once you undo those things the accumulator will drop out of the chassis and you can do the rest of the lines easily. Reassemble in the reverse order. That one hard line can be difficult between the difficulty getting wrenches on the fitting to getting the accumulator loose from the ferrule. Again, to get that hard line leaktight you really have to crank on that fitting and get it TIGHT without deforming the hard line. Takes a lot of patience and some colorful language. Especially with fuel dripping down your arm. A lift is nice but it can be done with jackstands and a creeper (or cardboard) or just laying on the floor if that's all you got. The main thing is to make sure you have NO leaks! BTW some vendors will offer an accumulator that is smaller than the original. Try to get the one that is the same size as the original if you can. It will hold the rest pressure up for the specified amount of time. The smaller one can't.

[DMC-81]

Final follow up - in my case, the fatal mistake was attempting to remove the hard line from the 90-deg fitting. As DMC-81 said, you should remove the fitting from the accumulator, while leaving the hard line-to-fitting connection intact. Because I didn't have the proper tools, I thought that removing the hard line first would simplify matters. But, the continued attempts to separate the fitting from the hard line galled the hard line such that the ferrule would no longer seal sufficiently, resulting in a slow drip.

I ended up by cutting the hard line at the ferrule. I then got Hervey's barbed fitting for the accumulator output, and used a bit of high-pressure hose to connect from the accumulator to the remaining hard line. No leaks.

Glad that you got it resolved, and that you found a solution for the damaged hard line without having to replace the whole thing.


The way I do it, the way I think it should be done), is to undo the hard line and then the clamp holding the accumulator. Once you undo those things the accumulator will drop out of the chassis and you can do the rest of the lines easily. Reassemble in the reverse order. That one hard line can be difficult between the difficulty getting wrenches on the fitting to getting the accumulator loose from the ferrule. Again, to get that hard line leaktight you really have to crank on that fitting and get it TIGHT without deforming the hard line. Takes a lot of patience and some colorful language. Especially with fuel dripping down your arm. A lift is nice but it can be done with jackstands and a creeper (or cardboard) or just laying on the floor if that's all you got. The main thing is to make sure you have NO leaks! BTW some vendors will offer an accumulator that is smaller than the original. Try to get the one that is the same size as the original if you can. It will hold the rest pressure up for the specified amount of time. The smaller one can't.

Yes, David, you said that before, but the OP stated that didn't work for him. I'm sure everyone has their preferred/familiar way, but I had success with the other method and I didn't have to risk damaging the hard line fitting. In my plumbing experience, those hard line fittings (compression nut with ferrule on a tube) are very difficult to remove and reattach without having them leak, because the line/tube is relatively soft and deforms slightly to make the seal against the ferrule. The second time it has to deform even more. That's why you have to crank on it even tighter the next time. Eventually it won't seal. We have the same problem with the bottom fuel filter fitting. Why risk it on the accumulator if there's another, sturdier fitting to work with?