PRV V6 Cargument - Jalopnik

[Rich]

Haven't seen a posting for this one yet.

Article: Do You Believe the PRV V6 is the Best Engine of All Time? (https://jalopnik.com/do-you-believe-the-prv-v6-is-the-best-engine-of-all-tim-1826243096)


"In a fit of boundless national optimism, Peugeot and Renault (and a few years later Volvo) teamed up to make a new V8 for good power and performance. But that’s not what the world got. We welcomed in the PRV V6, a cut-down compromise engine that for decades powered more amazing and amazingly bad cars than you would ever imagine....."
There is an accompanying video.

They share some opinions about the DeLorean, of course. A variety of opinions.

Enjoy.
Or not.

[Nicholas R]

As Betteridge's law states, "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word: NO."

[Michael]

Good engine(save CIS)? Debatable.

Best engine of all time? That's just asinine.

[Rich]

And my OP isn't meant to suggest that I think it's a great engine.

A good engine? Sure. After 37 years and 73K miles ours still starts on the first crank, runs reliably, passes smog every time and consumes no oil.

Best engine? No.
How many other engines call for the intake manifold to come off in order to get to the water pump coolant hoses?

Just the same there were plenty that were worse...how many engines during the early days of pollution control regs were halfway decent to begin with? Anybody else recall Pontiac's 2.5L Iron Duke ('77-'93)? Or the '81-'84 Cadillac V8-6-4? Eeeek.

[Chris Burns]

Funny how when any other classic car has issues, NO ONE bad mouths them!!



Delorean has an an issue, here comes the bad jokes and insults.

The issues that Deloreans can have are no different than any other classic car issues.


Are Deloreans perfect NOPE.

Are they fun cars YES

Are the reliable? Yes as long as they are driven and kept up properly.

My only gripe with the PRV is having to take the top half of the engine apart just to replace a water pump.

The PRV motor is not the critics darling but to call it terrible is unfair.

Just ask Oliver Holler and his nearly million mile Delorean!!

[opethmike]

Funny how when any other classic car has issues, NO ONE bad mouths them!!


This isn't even remotely true. At all.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/science-choice/201504/what-is-confirmation-bias

[AugustneverEnds]

I've come to appreciate the PRV for is uniqueness and that it's pretty reliable without having to spend time and money constantly. It's comparable in maintenance requirements to my BMW E30's M20 inline 6 and the Stage II PRV felt similar in power output.

[David T]

Considering all of the parts of a Delorean, the PRV and the transaxle are probably the most reliable parts of the whole car. With a couple of caveats.
1) NEVER overheat the motor. Because of the complex and over-extended cooling system, if it is not well maintained, it is easy to "cook" the motor.
2) The Bosch K-Jetronic fuel system does not take well to storage or E-10

[Chris Burns]

Considering all of the parts of a Delorean, the PRV and the transaxle are probably the most reliable parts of the whole car. With a couple of caveats.
1) NEVER overheat the motor. Because of the complex and over-extended cooling system, if it is not well maintained, it is easy to "cook" the motor.
2) The Bosch K-Jetronic fuel system does not take well to storage or E-10


Agreed!!

[Rich]

....The PRV motor is not the critics' darling but to call it terrible is unfair.

Just ask Oliver Holler and his nearly million mile Delorean!!

Yes, good point.

Or ask Wolfgang, Klaus or Andre, members of the DeLorean World Tour team who together drove 3 DeLoreans with stock PRVs around the world without a single engine hiccup.

Or any other hiccups.

I like to mention the DWT feat whenever somebody suggests this engine isn't rugged and dependable.

[Nicholas R]

Funny how when any other classic car has issues, NO ONE bad mouths them!!



Delorean has an an issue, here comes the bad jokes and insults.

The issues that Deloreans can have are no different than any other classic car issues.


Are Deloreans perfect NOPE.

Are they fun cars YES

Are the reliable? Yes as long as they are driven and kept up properly.

My only gripe with the PRV is having to take the top half of the engine apart just to replace a water pump.

The PRV motor is not the critics darling but to call it terrible is unfair.

Just ask Oliver Holler and his nearly million mile Delorean!!

To be fair the "tothefuture.org" time machine is not on its first PRV.

Also the waterpump thing may be your only gripe, but I've got far more :wink:. My list ranges from block rot to fuel system clogging to component inaccessibility (distributor for instance) to a simple lack of power. Plus just odd components like warm up regulators, frequency valves, etc.

[Josh]

To be fair the "tothefuture" time machine is not on its first PRV.

Also the waterpump thing may be your only gripe, but I've got far more....

The waterpump is not too bad to replace. It is just stupid how it connects to the heater hoses and heads.

Yes many other issues. Like the whole valley situation. Or the piston liner setup. Or the awful aluminum alloy they made them all out of. etc

[vwdmc16]

The distributor buried under the intake is the worst part for me.

Followed by the idle air tube.

[DMC-81]

I think the lack of power in DeLorean version of the PRV was mostly timing to market. It was 1981 after all....in the later part of the Malaise Era. But, there's always modification if you want more power without swapping. You could ask John Lane about the PRV's potential:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz_VDwgLemU

Here is Jalopnik's related article:
https://jalopnik.com/holy-crap-this-rally-volvo-1681821038

I can imagine what would have been if the DMCL company was allowed to continue... Legend turbos, etc. For example, nobody raves about the 123/136HP "Blue Flame" V6 that the first (1953) Corvette had, but a few years later in 1957, the first mechanical fuel injection "Fuelie" 250/283 HP V8 was something to rave about.

I find the PRV relatively easy to work on and it has adequate power in stock form...it provides good pickup but is certainly not a tire burner. Neither was the 1981 Corvette though.

[opethmike]

Methinks we define "good pickup" differently, lol

[refugeefromcalif]

Edit: Subjective HP.
Being that my first two seater car is a Honda del Sol, (with 98 HP), I find my Stage 1 DeLorean to be quite Peppy. :)

George

[DMC-81]

Methinks we define "good pickup" differently, lol

:hihi2: Definitely.

Let me elaborate based on cars I have driven or rode in:
Good pickup in a well maintained Stock PRV= can get out of its own way, has no trouble passing when up to speed.
Good pickup in a well maintained Stage 1 PRV= Definitely peppy
Good pickup in a well maintained Stage 2 PRV= Pulls strongly
Good pickup in one of the LS (or similar) swapped cars = neck snapping acceleration.

I totally get the swap option and my post above isn't a sleight against them... don't get me wrong. I had the privilege of driving Nick's car and it was a smile inducing experience. :driving1:

I will say that I bought the Delorean knowing the limited power output, and I was expecting less that what my stock car delivers, so I'm pleasantly surprised.

[opethmike]

See, I would define an LS swapped DeLorean as "reasonably able to accelerate."

[David T]

While the performance of the PRV is not going to impress, if you want to talk about racing then you must include handling. Not straight-line acceleration as in drag strip but autocross and track. Now some of the other attributes can be appreciated because of it's Lotus heritage. Often what a car lacks in one respect can be compensated for in other ways. So while you won't overpower anyone in a straightaway, you can overtake them in the corners. If you want to really see what a PRV is like try driving the automatic! The when you drive the 5-speed you will see how much better it is!

[OverlandMan]

I watched that "Cargument" video a week or two ago. The bearded youngster used the word "like" so many times that my ear actually started to bleed.

[opethmike]

While the performance of the PRV is not going to impress, if you want to talk about racing then you must include handling. Not straight-line acceleration as in drag strip but autocross and track. Now some of the other attributes can be appreciated because of it's Lotus heritage. Often what a car lacks in one respect can be compensated for in other ways. So while you won't overpower anyone in a straightaway, you can overtake them in the corners. If you want to really see what a PRV is like try driving the automatic! The when you drive the 5-speed you will see how much better it is!

LOL, are you serious? The DeLorean is floppier than a wet noodle. It's basically a cheap rip-off of the Esprit, and the Esprit wasn't great to begin with.

[Jonathan]

I think our "standard definitions" need to be based on a well maintained car and not those with problems.

This goes for automatics vs manuals, stock PRV's and upgraded stage 1 or 2 cars, and also for the steering/suspension and handling.

Personally I think too many poor opinions come from guys who have driving experiences in cars that aren't in good condition. That's especially true of the slagging on automatics, and the handling too. We seem to perpetuate that misinformation internally as badly as the outsiders perpetuate the coke jokes stuff.

There is no modern comparison for performance with our cars because they aren't modern. Guys come up to me at shows asking if it is fast and I'll tell them it would get beat by a new Civic. Then I'll also mention you could go buy a Countach from the 80s for $400k and get beat by a new Accord.

These aren't apples to apples comparisons. This is more like comparing an apple to the shopping cart you're using while at the grocery store. They aren't the same.

[DMC-81]

^ +1. I have also driven DeLoreans that were not running their best, fuel system problems, vacuum leaks, etc. and it definitely has an impact on performance. It’s not fair to judge the whole fleet on these examples.

I remember passing an Acura sedan on a toll road at 75 mph while accelerating, and the surprised look on the driver’s face was priceless. I think I dispelled a myth in his mind. Not bad for a bone stock car.

[SamHill]

After you have been K-liberated and the necessary exhaust fixes, there's not much to complain about.

[opethmike]

Personally I think too many poor opinions come from guys who have driving experiences in cars that aren't in good condition. That's especially true of the slagging on automatics, and the handling too. We seem to perpetuate that misinformation internally as badly as the outsiders perpetuate the coke jokes stuff.

I'm sorry, but I could not disagree more. I have driven more DeLoreans than I can count, ranging from bad shape to stellar, near mint shape, and I have been around these cars for nearly fifteen years. I have spent a lot of time driving other sports cars from that same era, and the DeLorean simply does not hold up to them (Esprits, Corvettes, 911s, Ferrari 308, etc) in either power or handling terms. Frankly, I wonder what basis of comparison the folks that claim DeLoreans have good handling/power are using.

I think it is important to be honest about DeLoreans. I love mine to death, and have spent far more time and money on it than any other car I've ever owned. But the reality is that they are not anything more than average for a car of that era.

[Michael]

A DeLorean in top running condition has the ability to fall out of a tree*


*tree branch must be pointing toward ground

[Jonathan]

I'm sorry, but I could not disagree more. I have driven more DeLoreans than I can count, ranging from bad shape to stellar, near mint shape, and I have been around these cars for nearly fifteen years. I have spent a lot of time driving other sports cars from that same era, and the DeLorean simply does not hold up to them (Esprits, Corvettes, 911s, Ferrari 308, etc) in either power or handling terms. Frankly, I wonder what basis of comparison the folks that claim DeLoreans have good handling/power are using.

I think it is important to be honest about DeLoreans. I love mine to death, and have spent far more time and money on it than any other car I've ever owned. But the reality is that they are not anything more than average for a car of that era.

I'm good with that, Mike. You definitely have way more experience than I do with driving comparable cars. I haven't even sat in some of the cars you mentioned much less driven them.

It is all about the comparables though, isn't it? With most things we talk about or ask about. Even something like "how are you?" or "how was your day?" Compared to what? Compared to yesterday? Compared to that guy over there? You know what I mean. If someone asks if you're tall or not, you might say yes or no, but you compare yourself to something. Hang out with a bunch of basketball players, then probably no. Hang out with midgets, then probably yes. Ask someone how tall are you, though, and it's a different question and different answer.

If Joe Car Show asks me if it is fast or if it handles well, I tell him not really for the fast part and pretty well for the handling part. Both subjective answers comparing my car to something else I'm familiar with. If buddy asks what kind of time it gets in a 0-60 race, I don't have much to tell him because I don't know. That's the answer that would tell people whether it is fast or not, but most of the guys I talk to can't relate that to something they know or feel. And I've never had someone ask that before.

Most of the time I answers people's questions, it's subjectively. Ball park stuff, comparisons, touchy feely answers. Guy asks me if I'm tall and I say yes. Absolute answer is I'm 6'3". The comparative answer is I can't fit in a couple of those cars you rhymed off ;)

[Michael]

The traction control system in the DeLorean is more than suited to reeling in the excess power the PRV makes. Not once when leaving from a stop at full throttle has my car even offered to spin the tires before the set of complex algorithms takes over and settles it back into place almost before I know anything is even wrong. Catching the dreded upshift dogleg is a piece of cake. As I shift into second bracing my hands against the wheel for the violent yaw shift, the TCS wrangles her back on point in the blink of an eye. The PRV may be a monster of a PITA in the DMC12, but JZD's TCS is AOK.

[SamHill]

The traction control system in the DeLorean is more than suited to reeling in the excess power the PRV makes. Not once when leaving from a stop at full throttle has my car even offered to spin the tires before the set of complex algorithms takes over and settles it back into place almost before I know anything is even wrong. Catching the dreded upshift dogleg is a piece of cake. As I shift into second bracing my hands against the wheel for the violent yaw shift, the TCS wrangles her back on point in the blink of an eye. The PRV may be a monster of a PITA in the DMC12, but JZD's TCS is AOK.

My tires are 10 years old so I ain't tryna yaw dogleg no piece of cake

[DMC-81]

The traction control system in the DeLorean is more than suited to reeling in the excess power the PRV makes. Not once when leaving from a stop at full throttle has my car even offered to spin the tires before the set of complex algorithms takes over and settles it back into place almost before I know anything is even wrong. Catching the dreded upshift dogleg is a piece of cake. As I shift into second bracing my hands against the wheel for the violent yaw shift, the TCS wrangles her back on point in the blink of an eye. The PRV may be a monster of a PITA in the DMC12, but JZD's TCS is AOK.

:hysterical: Thankfully, there's no danger in breaking the rear end loose.