Efi?

[thirdmanj]

So I've been thinking a lot about the possible benefits concerning EFI. Right now my car is doing great with the K-jet, no issues except for minor power fade out and stutter in high gears on the freeway. But my question concerning EFI in the Cost to benefit ratio. If its really that good, I just may consider doing an EFI job if the price is right. What am I looking at on average cost for an EFI conversion, and how difficult is it to do?

[stevedmc]

So I've been thinking a lot about the possible benefits concerning EFI. Right now my car is doing great with the K-jet, no issues except for minor power fade out and stutter in high gears on the freeway. But my question concerning EFI in the Cost to benefit ratio. If its really that good, I just may consider doing an EFI job if the price is right. What am I looking at on average cost for an EFI conversion, and how difficult is it to do?

Many people give up on EFI conversions. I would say if K-Jet is working fine, leave the thing alone.

[AdmiralSenn]

It'll be cheaper to get the K-Jet working. As someone with a running EFI car, I'd only advise this project if you 1) have a very good reason for it, such as a high performance engine build that will require the extra precision and fuel delivery or 2) you REALLY, REALLY want to to satisfy your urge to say you've done it.

It can be done on the cheap but you probably won't be happy with the results. Cost is anywhere from ~$1000 to unlimited money depending on what you want to do.

The conversion is easy but involved - there's a lot of individual things to do. You may have to fabricate some things. If you go Megasquirt (most of us have), you'll spend a good amount of time fiddling with settings to make it run right.

The benefits are that the car will run like a modern car - no hot start or rest pressure issues, the best possible balance of fuel economy and performance, and generally fewer things to go wrong.

It's very, very awesome to have it done and there are some great benefits, but it's not at all a drop in solution. You will have the support of a few of us who have done it to guide you, though.

[David T]

In all cases it will always be cheaper to fix up whatever you have to do to get the K-Jet going. Converting costs not only the price of the hardware but many things have to be modified. If you can't do the work yourself it is going to be very $$expensive$$. A properly functioning K-jet is more than adequate for the stock PRV. As said, if you are planning other engine mods then you do need to consider upgrading to EFI if only for the ability to fine tune all of the engine operating parameters. Your other option, if cheap is the operative word, is to go to a carburetor.
David Teitelbaum

[dmc6960]

It'll be cheaper to get the K-Jet working. As someone with a running EFI car, I'd only advise this project if you 1) have a very good reason for it, such as a high performance engine build that will require the extra precision and fuel delivery or 2) you REALLY, REALLY want to to satisfy your urge to say you've done it.

It can be done on the cheap but you probably won't be happy with the results. Cost is anywhere from ~$1000 to unlimited money depending on what you want to do.

The conversion is easy but involved - there's a lot of individual things to do. You may have to fabricate some things. If you go Megasquirt (most of us have), you'll spend a good amount of time fiddling with settings to make it run right.

The benefits are that the car will run like a modern car - no hot start or rest pressure issues, the best possible balance of fuel economy and performance, and generally fewer things to go wrong.

It's very, very awesome to have it done and there are some great benefits, but it's not at all a drop in solution. You will have the support of a few of us who have done it to guide you, though.

^^^Everything He Said^^^

[Spittybug]

:vomit_1:

HOLD THE PHONE FOLKS. Many of you remember the initial problems I experienced with getting my EFI up and running, and sure, the easy answer would have been to simply fix or replace the old technology and get it back to old technology specs. I DIDN'T give up and I'm glad I didn't.

Previous posters are correct, the cost can vary wildly and much depends on how much you can and are willing to do yourself. I found a Peugeot 604 manifold to fit, a Camaro throttle body and some F-150 injectors for a total under $200. I bought a Megasquirt system and built the board myself, $320 ish with wiring harness. I paid a guy I met ~$300 if I recall to weld up my 90 degree adapter and fab the fuel rails. Add in $210 for fuel hose, regulator, adapters and the air sensor and a couple of relays. Add in $150 for the LT1 wide band 02 sensor. Throw in $100 for the rubber boot and the K&N air filter. So what does that total, about $1,300, right?

Once we got past the MAJOR fact that the code had an oddfire bug in it that Darcom (Daryl in San Antonio) and I helped to identify, things have gone well. I now control not only my fuel injection but also my timing. I have no hot start issues or idle hunt. I can optimize to the degree I want to. Using Megasquirt I can adjust for A/C kicking on or off at idle and compensate. I can run richer at some parts of the power band and leaner at others. I can advance my spark quicker and get better performance. I have been able to drop about 20 net pounds off the car, clean up the entire engine bay and rip out the lambda, ECU and idle controllers. The DMCH mechanics have seen the setup and think it is pretty neat.

It's all about perseverance. The help from several individuals on this board has been invaluable, but at the end of the day, it is YOU who must troubleshoot YOUR installation. I am now at the point where I am able to help others do their conversion, much like Bill is able to help do carb conversions.

The choice is yours. I will not tell you that you need to go EFI. I will tell you however that if you believe in reliability, modernization and better engine management that newer technology can give you , and if you are willing to climb the steep learning curve, then there are a few of us pioneers out there willing to help you out.

Owen.

[Farrar]

Or you could install an engine which already uses EFI. :)

Farrar

[stevedmc]

:vomit_1:

HOLD THE PHONE FOLKS. Many of you remember the initial problems I experienced with getting my EFI up and running, and sure, the easy answer would have been to simply fix or replace the old technology and get it back to old technology specs. I DIDN'T give up and I'm glad I didn't.

Thats pretty sweet that you got it going. Is engine access any easier since you ditched K-Jet? Things look a lot better in there to me.

Are you able to easily get to your VOD now?

[Ron]

Thats pretty sweet that you got it going. Is engine access any easier since you ditched K-Jet? Things look a lot better in there to me.

Are you able to easily get to your VOD now?STOP THE PRESS!

:yoda:He has no VOD, much like you. Nor the honor, K-Jeters do.

[content22207]

After you ditch K-Jet, it reverts back to being an intake valley.

Death has no power when you can pop your intake manifold off in just a few minutes.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

After you ditch K-Jet, it reverts back to being an intake valley.

Death has no power when you can pop your intake manifold off in just a few minutes.

Bill Robertson
#5939
:yoda:Like the undead, it is true. But we all know, what they do.

[content22207]

On a more serious note: the PRV was not designed for K-Jet -- K-Jet was overlaid on the engine after it had already been in production for more than half a decade (even then, the first K-Jet installations did not look anything like the installation DeLorean owners are familiar with). Things that seem nonsensible with K-Jet in the way, such as ignition distributor access and access to plumbing underneath the intake, are much more reasonable when you remember that the engine was originally designed with easily removed intake manifolds.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Spittybug]

Thats pretty sweet that you got it going. Is engine access any easier since you ditched K-Jet? Things look a lot better in there to me.

Are you able to easily get to your VOD now?

As Bill adroitly points out, there is no more Valley Of Death since the manifold removes with 4 bolts. Those 4 bolts hold the manifold down, the dual fuel rails and of course the attached throttle body. None require triple jointed socket extensions either :smile: The distributor is clearly visible, accessible, adjustable and any other "ible" that you would like to add. However, I don't need to play with it. The vacuum advance is disabled and the mechanical advance is tack welded so it doesn't move. It's all digital now. In fact, the next bug to bite will be to eliminate it all together and go to a modern coil pack setup. That however will be a bit more of a challenge on an odd fire engine and will require knowing both cam and crank position to do properly. Separate topic there though.............

When I started having K-jet problems I knew the solution for ME was not to just repair the same old same old. I started down the path of a carb until I learned more about the potential of EFI and I took the plunge. It was painful for a while, but I have no regrets and am now very pleased with where the car is now. Better yet, I have the ability to tinker and make adjustments lying on the couch using the laptop if I want, and if they don't improve things, I simply reload the last good setup. That's a far cry from turning wrenches, checking pressures, adjusting linkages, changing needle valves, replacing gaskets or o-rings. The real hurdle is the original hardware setup (and integrating ANY new hardware into our cars, be it a carb on manifold or new fan relays...) and the educational learning curve. After that it is a case of how much crap can I remove from the stock setup, how clean can I make it look, how much better can I make the acceleration or the fuel efficiency,etc.
I'm past the frustration and into the optimization!!!!!!! :cowboy:

I did the Zenith Strombergs, dual Summit Unions and Weber carburetor setups on my old Spitfire. I don't even remember the setup on the Beetle. But now I have some slick technology on the forever modern Delorean. I'm liking it!

[content22207]

... changing needle valves....

Since you brought it up: on a Motorcraft 2100 the needle valve *AND* seat can be changed in a minute or two -- no big deal (why change them anyway? The seat is brass, and there's no reason to change the valve unless its viton tip has become damaged somehow).

And for the sake of historical accuracy: you did spend several months trying to get your EFI to work. On the old forum you even mentioned that your wife was getting pissed off with the project.

EFI may be many things, but plug and play it is not. Poor Mike Lund spent several months this summer trying to get his EFI setup to work, then ultimately went back to K-jet: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?180-EFI-conversion-VIN1049.

Any owner contemplating EFI does need to be aware of the lengthy setup involved, typically spanning several months.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[opethmike]

Since you brought it up: on a Motorcraft 2100 the needle valve *AND* seat can be changed in a minute or two -- no big deal (why change them anyway? The seat is brass, and there's no reason to change the valve unless its viton tip has become damaged somehow).

And for the sake of historical accuracy: you did spend several months trying to get your EFI to work. On the old forum you even mentioned that your wife was getting pissed off with the project.

EFI may be many things, but plug and play it is not. Poor Mike Lund spent several months this summer trying to get his EFI setup to work, then ultimately went back to K-jet: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?180-EFI-conversion-VIN1049.

Any owner contemplating EFI does need to be aware of the lengthy setup involved, typically spanning several months.

Bill Robertson
#5939

A month and a half is not several months :-)

I have every intention to try the conversion again over the winter when the car isn't getting driven anyway.

Also, please stop using me as an example of the difficulty of EFI. I don't care for it.

[content22207]

Did you not chronicle your efforts publicly?

As I said: any owner contemplating EFI needs to be aware of the lengthy setup involved, and that it doesn't always work the first time out.

The OP's question was "how difficult is [EFI] to do?" Surely you don't want him thinking that EFI will be installed in just a weekend or two.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[opethmike]

Did you not chronicle your efforts publicly?

As I said: any owner contemplating EFI needs to be aware of the lengthy setup involved, and that it doesn't always work the first time out.

The OP's question was "how difficult is [EFI] to do?" Surely you don't want him thinking that EFI will be installed in just a weekend or two.

Bill Robertson
#5939

You completely miss my point. *face palm*

[content22207]

Q: How difficult is EFI to do?

A: It typically requires custom fabrication on the owner's part, and several months of setup and tuning. At this time there is no ready made DeLorean EFI kit that an owner can quickly install in his or her own driveway.

An objective answer to the OP's question.

Anyone care to disagree?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

As I said: any owner contemplating EFI needs to be aware of the lengthy setup involved, and that it doesn't always work the first time out This is probably the reason Josh at DPI doesn't sell EFI conversion kits. EFI would be nice but I like the low cost and simplicity of a carburetor.

If I ever win the lottery and have unlimited resources I'll ship my car to DPI and just tell Josh to make it awesome.

[David T]

Doing an EFI conversion is immeasurably easier if someone blazed a path. Parts availability will be an issue but once past that hurdle everything else is at least a magnitude easier. The code can just be copied over and will be more than good enough to run the car. The full package of complete ignition control with coil packs would be the ultimate in engine management. All that would be left is a pre-cat O2 sensor and setting up for proper emission and evap control. Someone selling a kit of parts would be ideal but a parts list and the code goes a LONG way. This would be the "hot ticket" for the turbo cars!
David Teitelbaum

[content22207]

To date no two DeLorean EFI conversions have been similar, much less identical, even on the same engine (several EFI DeLoreans are 3.0, not 2.8 ). Each owner reinvents the wheel every time: different throttle bodies and IAC valves, different injectors and rails, different wiring, etc. That aspect of the conversion mystifies me -- wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if everyone just implemented a standardized and vetted design?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[stevedmc]

wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if everyone just implemented a standardized and vetted design?

Josh B might have a standardized design but unfortunately he doesn't sell it in kit form.

[Spittybug]

To date no two DeLorean EFI conversions have been similar, much less identical, even on the same engine (several EFI DeLoreans are 3.0, not 2.8 ). Each owner reinvents the wheel every time: different throttle bodies and IAC valves, different injectors and rails, different wiring, etc. That aspect of the conversion mystifies me -- wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if everyone just implemented a standardized and vetted design?

Bill Robertson
#5939

Maybe part of the thrill is overcoming the individual challenges, not just the end game?

Bill, if you can come up with the standardized manifold (iirc, you make them or have them made up, right?), I would be intrigued by the the idea of making a standardized kit available to people. Hummm, peanut butter and chocolate.................

[Ron]

That aspect of the conversion mystifies me -- wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if everyone just implemented a standardized and vetted design?

Bill Robertson
#5939I'd guess they look at it much like you did when it came to carbing.


+1, Steve
I'm sure an EFI kit is right around the corner...from those currently offering EFI installed only, if from nowhere else.

[protodelorean]

One problem with a "standardized, vetted design" is is doesn't take into account people's differing motivations for the moving to Fuel Injection:

A. If they want to keep everything as close to stock as possible, EXCEPT add FI, an approach that would be retrofitting EFI to the D's stock PRV.

B. If the goal is to modernize, add FI, while minimizing fabrication, a better choice is to go with the Eagle 3.0. Still requires some lighter fabrication, but the block is essentially a bolt-in.

C. If adding FI and all-out power is the goal (heavy fabrication is no problem) then an engine swap like Marc's VQ35 may be the way to go.

For A and B, I suppose "standard" plans could be developed, but for C, or if adding turbos or superchargers, all bets are off.

Also, in any of these scenarios, the choice of control unit is affected by the owner's skill set and pocketbook. DIY setups like Megasquirt are relatively cheap, but put a little more setup/fabrication on the builder, while off-the-shelf units like Electromotive, Mo-Tech, DFI, etc. cost more, but come more completely packaged and include factory support. Pick your poison.

[Farrar]

B. If the goal is to modernize, add FI, while minimizing fabrication, a better choice is to go with the Eagle 3.0. Still requires some lighter fabrication, but the block is essentially a bolt-in.

IMHO, we need a kit for this mod.

Farrar

[content22207]

I'd guess they look at it much like you did when it came to carbing.


My carb conversion was not optional -- the barge engine I transplanted has no injector ports in the heads, and a Volvo A series manifold is not amenable to adding them there. I also only had a couple of weeks to get the engine in the car and on the road for DCS'04. Carburetion may not be perfect, but it is bolt down and go.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Ron]

I'm not familiar with the options then...but thought there was a carb and manifold that would work???

[content22207]

This is how my engine showed up (that's an industrial propane carb on top):
5279 5280

I reused the manifold of course -- just turned it around and made an adapter plate for a 2100 carb:
5281

Bill Robertson
#5939

[David T]

Bill, explain to me how it is you hijacked this thread about EFI and turned it into a discussion about your carb conversion? I agree converting to a carb is one option if you want to remove the Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection system but this thread is about replacing the K-Jet with EFI. With EFI you can control not only the fuel system but the ignition system and potentially (on an automatic) the transmission. And run the dash electronically. (and turbos if you have them). Non of which is possible with a conversion technologically backwards with a carb.
David Teitelbaum

[content22207]

You asked for an explanation -- here it is:

Nobody hijacked anything.

Carburetors were first mentioned by Owen in Post #13. In that post he made an inaccurate statement about needle valves, which I corrected in the post following. I also used that opportunity to set the historical record straight Re: Owen's conversion. There is more to it than even Post #14 documents -- PM me if you want the whole sordid history.

Carburetors were next mentioned by Steve Rice in Post #19, to which nobody responded.

Carburetors were then mentioned by Ron Pirkle in Post #24 as a direct reference to my conversion. I was not able to respond to Ron's comment until Post #27. Ron replied to my response in Post #28, to which I replied in Post #29.

Then you made your factory incorrect accusation.

Explanation enough?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[thirdmanj]

Very much appreciated. This had been very informative to me and I believe I understand now. For the time being I will stick with my K-Jet as it works perfectly well now, and I believe, with the proper maintenance it will last. Carburetors are truly a "vetted" design, and reliable and understood... and old. EFI is the modern, and the future. Its hard to foresee a future in the automotive industry w/o EFI (my first car was '78 Z and it was EFI). Put simply EFI will go on, carbs (however kick ass and cool lookin') will not be returned to by any progressive auto manufacturer. A DeLorean could be further brought up to times with an EFI conversion, but for the low tech nothing beats a carb. If simplicity is ones goal, go Carb. If modernization is the goal, EFI. But if the K-Jet works... congrats to you. Mechanical fuel injection was clearly abandoned for a reason... less reliable, less efficient. But I digest... Thanks for all the information, anecdotes and perspectives, it was most enlightening.

[content22207]

Why doesn't an EFI user with the original K-Jet manifold at least document his conversion? For an EFI kit to work with the masses, it will need to use a readily available intake manifold. That is why I make my own (I need a dependable supply of intake manifolds. For centralized fuel metering the K-Jet manifold is very difficult to work with, although Byrne Heninger has come up with a way to do it, and a welder who can work with cast aluminum).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[AdmiralSenn]

I will agree that the engine access is SUPER EASY now. Far fewer wires, far fewer hoses and everything is easily accessible right there - in my case I have to do a little extra work to get to the spark plugs because of the way I mounted my fuel rails, but it's overall less annoying than the K-Jet injectors - I just undo the fuel rail bolts and pop the rail out. Super easy.

As far as the varying installation choices, there are lots of factors that explain why each setup is different. In my case, I had a car that the previous owner had converted to a 3.0 - not an Eagle motor, he had the odd-fire enlarged internally... don't ask. It was very nearly a completely different motor. I'm running Daryl's tune because he had almost the same size fuel injectors (and is also using the stock manifold) but I had to tweak it a good deal to get it running smoothly and not run crazy rich or lean. I figured why replace a bunch of functional components simply to line up with everyone else's builds, when my tune was going to be so wildly different and I couldn't really afford the extra parts anyway? And not everyone has easy access to variant PRV parts, either.

EFI is also nice because you have the option to pursue higher performance builds later. My car came with a nitrous oxide kit that I'll be reinstalling once I replace the fire-damaged components (and once I get Christine completely road-worthy again, of course...). I can monitor the engine and force the nitrous system to shut off under certain conditions (e.g. it won't actuate under a certain throttle percentage, or outside of a specific temperature range, etc). This makes it a lot safer than the NOS + K-Jet system that the car came with, which had no provision to check for a dangerous lean condition, for example. The vast array of wires that controlled the system previously will be completely gone - all the wires I need are already run for the EFI controller, and I can just tap the controller triggers into the MS outputs without needing to re-run everything.

It can be a VERY rewarding and fun experience, and I'd highly recommend it if you're willing to tackle a fairly involved project and learn a great deal. #3416 runs FAR FAR FAR better on EFI, even on a rough tune, than it ever did on K-Jet.


Why doesn't an EFI user with the original K-Jet manifold at least document his conversion? For an EFI kit to work with the masses, it will need to use a readily available intake manifold. That is why I make my own (I need a dependable supply of intake manifolds. For centralized fuel metering the K-Jet manifold is very difficult to work with, although Byrne Heninger has come up with a way to do it, and a welder who can work with cast aluminum).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Bill, I haven't fully documented mine because it really isn't that different from anyone else's, fundamentally - the ECU and wiring are virtually identical, and those are really the difficult parts. And hardly anyone ever uses the original manifold as there are some good reasons to switch to a factory EFI unit - built in idle control, easier TPS adaptation, better fuel atomization compared to the K-Jet injector holes, and overall a lot less head-scratching and fabrication. The 2.8 EFI manifold is a LOT closer to drop-in than the factory unit - witness how fast Owen went from bare engine to fully running EFI with idle, spark advance, and everything else, compared to my ongoing work. I still don't have idle control or spark control yet because I keep having to fiddle with throttle sensor and air intake issues (though I did just recently solve the intake problem).

I would LOVE to make a production run of conversion parts for the factory manifold (throttle sensor mounts, idle and emissions port manifolds, etc) but I just don't have the time or resources to make it happen. Plus I haven't hammered out the issues with, you know, making them actually work yet.

[David T]

One of the problems with the EFI conversions is that most are "works in progress" especially if the owner is doing it. You can always tweak it and try different settings, mainly because it is so easy to do as compared to mechanical systems. And if you don't like it it is also very easy to undo any changes. As to Bill, the fact that others mentioned the C word first doesn't mean anyone wanted to know where you got your motor from and why you chose to put a c--b on it. At least on an EFI thread anyway. Getting back to talking about the stock K-Jet, it is VERY limited in what you can adjust which is one of the big reasons to consider EFI mainly because even with the Lambda added to the Jetronic, it is still basically a mechanical injection system. To make any significant changes you have to buy parts. And if you don't like how they work you are stuck with them and have to buy more to try something different. Not the case with EFI. Maybe one day someone will do an EFI conversion and fully document it and make it available. Maybe DMCH will do it and call it a Stage IV?
David Teitelbaum

[content22207]

As to Bill, the fact that others mentioned the C word first doesn't mean anyone wanted to know where you got your motor from and why you chose to put a c--b on it. At least on an EFI thread anyway.

Incorrect:



I'm not familiar with the options then...but thought there was a carb and manifold that would work???

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DCUK Martin]

On a more serious note: the PRV was not designed for K-Jet -- K-Jet was overlaid on the engine after it had already been in production for more than half a decade (even then, the first K-Jet installations did not look anything like the installation DeLorean owners are familiar with).

Actually all K-Jet intallations have a near-enough identical intake manifold. The only real variations were the idle valve and steel pipes rather than hoses.


To date no two DeLorean EFI conversions have been similar, much less identical, even on the same engine (several EFI DeLoreans are 3.0, not 2.8 ).

Well, there're 3 cars in the UK running Z7U manifolds, and to date I've shipped 3 to the US, and at least one of them is running permanently.

The major "problem" with EFI is software. But then the main advantage of it is it's infinite adjustability. It's not an upside vs downslide, it's risk vs reward.


Mechanical fuel injection was clearly abandoned for a reason... less reliable, less efficient.

...than EFI. Let's remember that EFI killed both K-Jet and carburetors off.

[content22207]

Actually all K-Jet intallations have a near-enough identical intake manifold. The only real variations were the idle valve and steel pipes rather than hoses.

Actually no they didn't. Volvo put a very different K-Jet intake manifold on the PRV for the four years. Volvo did not start using the manifold you're familiar with until 1979:

5407


...than EFI. Let's remember that EFI killed both K-Jet and carburetors off.

Carburetors are still being manufactured new in the box for aftermarket use. Ford Triton users have the option of adapting an old cast iron manifold to their modular heads (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-4-6-MODULAR-CARBURETED-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-/320753670127?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aae6897ef) or installing a completely new aluminum manifold (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-5-4-CARBURETED-MODULAR-LINCOLN-8V-MANIFOLD-CARBURETE-YOUR-NAVIGATOR-DOHC-/320753670261?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aae689875).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DCUK Martin]

Actually no they didn't. Volvo put a very different K-Jet intake manifold on the PRV for the four years. Volvo did not start using the manifold you're familiar with until 1979:


Hmmm... okay that's a new one on me. They didn't use that manifold in Europe AFAIK.




Carburetors are still being manufactured new in the box for aftermarket use.

Sigh.

[content22207]

Hmmm... okay that's a new one on me. They didn't use that manifold in Europe AFAIK.

Ummm, E Series was *ONLY* used in Europe (and Australia).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DCUK Martin]

Ah... so you've only seen it in a book.

[content22207]

Is there some reason I should doubt Volvo's own words?

Bill Robertson
#5939

[David T]

The fact that there are still c-----s being made for the after market is no good reason to install one on a car that didn't have one in the first place. For that matter you can still find buggy whips and vacuum tubes. I don't see a whole big market (or much of a future) for them either. If you want to improve the reliability, and drivability of the Delorean the answer is not to go backwards technologically but forwards and that means EFI. The only way it makes sense is to go down a path that was created by others. It will save time and money. Other than that the best option is to try to keep the original K-Jet system functional. Probably cheaper and faster in the long run, just not as adjustable if you want to customize it. I don't see too many people saying they like the old bias ply tires back as opposed to the newer radial tires either. Most of the time improvements are created and make the previous technology obsolete. C-----s (and bias ply tires) are among them. Arguing over it and saying it makes access easier is no good argument to convert to c--bs. If access is so important converting to EFI solves that too.
David Teitelbaum

[Farrar]

c-----s ... C-----s ... c--bs.

Welcome back, Dr. Atkins. :)

Farrar

[dmc6960]

Well, there're 3 cars in the UK running Z7U manifolds, and to date I've shipped 3 to the US, and at least one of them is running permanently.

And proudly so! Although I am feeling a little less special now that I may not be the only DeLorean in the States running with that manifold! Its a good unit, only issue I have with it is that the throttle body is a little undersized for a 200+hp naturally aspirated engine (its either 52 or 54mm, dont remember) Any larger ones available that fit the tri-bolt pattern? Ideally would like 62-65mm.

[DCUK Martin]

Hi Jim,

That's the standard throttle on all Renault EFI PRVs. The only "larger" one(s) I know of are the twin throttles in the 24v engine. I did hear a whisper that the Volvo B280E engine had a larger throttle but I don't have any of them.

On our monster 3 litre turbo engine, we've fitted one of these:

http://www.jenvey.co.uk/home/large-single-throttle-body/jenvey-dynamics/single-body-70mm-sfg70-0

You might like to go through all the throttles Jenvey sell. You can buy them with self-contained rising rate mechanisms - all you need to do is make up some adapter plates (or just drill and tap a few new holes) and hook up the cable.

[cineman]

On our monster 3 litre turbo engine, we've fitted one of these:

how is your 3lt monster going? already running ?

[lazabby]

Maybe part of the thrill is overcoming the individual challenges, not just the end game?

Bill, if you can come up with the standardized manifold (iirc, you make them or have them made up, right?), I would be intrigued by the the idea of making a standardized kit available to people. Hummm, peanut butter and chocolate.................

I could be your first customer! I've seen Spittybug's engine and it looks very nice. A lot more simpler or cleaner than the current Delorean engine since there's a lot of stuff removed.

[DCUK Martin]

how is your 3lt monster going? already running ?

If it was just the engine we were doing, it would have been running 18 months ago :angry_whip:

Originally it was going to Eurofest....

[Kg6fnk]

Well, there're 3 cars in the UK running Z7U manifolds, and to date I've shipped 3 to the US, and at least one of them is running permanently.

Is the Z7U from a Renault?
Is it the same as the ZN3J intake manifolds on a Peugeot 505?

[opethmike]

The Z7U is indeed from a Renault.

[DCUK Martin]

It's from the 2.5 turbo unique to Renault. It is the only EFI manifold with circular ports to match the odd fire heads.