VIN 16821 for sale.

[Chris Burns]

Not a bad example, but calling this fully restored is a major stretch especially for the price.

What are they smoking? Lol.

https://www.blackhorsemotors.com/vehicle-details/1983-delorean-dmc-12-restored-coupe-88bc09a61fbf374bb3f95dc4b9675db4#

[Jonathan]

What have you noticed that's not finished on that one, Chris, to make it an incomplete restoration?

[jackb]

What have you noticed that's not finished on that one, Chris, to make it an incomplete restoration?

The only defects I noticed after scrutinizing each picture were:
-Slight sagging on one fin (passenger side, towards the bottom) of the fake plastic grille;
-Rear window finisher distorted (aren’t they all...)
-Small hole on drivers side of license plate frame (I thought maybe for a camera, but it’s got the Craig radio. So, idk)
-OE exhaust (muffler, at least. The brackets look new, and having the original exhaust isn’t really a defect in and of itself, but the muffler does look like it has surface corrosion)

It appears to be a very clean car, with a new frame (and likely new everything associated with a frame-off) and service records.
60 grand is a lot of money, and on the high end for a Delorean, but from the info on the ad, it does appear to be a high end car. I see no reason it isn’t worth top dollar for a Delorean. I guess it’s up to the seller and potential buyer to figure out what “top dollar” actually is.
I don’t think I’d be able to make my car look like that one without ending up spending a similar total amount of money.

[Chris Burns]

I wouldn't call it incomplete.


It's certainly a nice DMC, but it doesn't look like it's worth the money they are asking for it. I think it's worth 35k.

I would drive it, just not at their crazy price.

[eight8toy]

The main pic of the car doesn't even have the passenger door lined up properly. Or they just didn't close it hard enough but still that looks bad.

[Rich_NYS]

What have you noticed that's not finished on that one, Chris, to make it an incomplete restoration?


The only defects I noticed after scrutinizing each picture were:
-Slight sagging on one fin (passenger side, towards the bottom) of the fake plastic grille;
-Rear window finisher distorted (aren’t they all...)
-Small hole on drivers side of license plate frame (I thought maybe for a camera, but it’s got the Craig radio. So, idk)
-OE exhaust (muffler, at least. The brackets look new, and having the original exhaust isn’t really a defect in and of itself, but the muffler does look like it has surface corrosion)

It appears to be a very clean car, with a new frame (and likely new everything associated with a frame-off) and service records.
60 grand is a lot of money, and on the high end for a Delorean, but from the info on the ad, it does appear to be a high end car. I see no reason it isn’t worth top dollar for a Delorean. I guess it’s up to the seller and potential buyer to figure out what “top dollar” actually is.
I don’t think I’d be able to make my car look like that one without ending up spending a similar total amount of money.

+1

62k showroom price seems reasonable if leaving room for negotiation.

I'd consider this car to be worth >50K.

[Jonathan]

Chris, isn't "fully" and "completely" kind of the same word? They share the same meaning at least. You said it isn't a "fully" restored car, but then you said it isn't incomplete either. Which one of those is it?

Like Jack mentioned, the muffler looks pretty rusty though maybe that's not the end of the world. Not functionally, anyway. If nitpicking, I see a little gap in the top of the leather shifter boot that could probably be addressed. Not a ton else, I guess. It's a nice looking car. Certainly has a few areas looking better than on my own car. The frame being one of those, but with it being new, you kind of expect that.

So, if those couple of things got corrected, new exhaust, shifter boot, doors closed properly, is it then a $62,000 car? Or at least $50,000, as Rich suggested? Or if you just left it as is, then it's only a $35,000 car, as Chris thinks?

I mention this only because the description of what kind of car this is AND what the asking price is, are two different things. Two different concerns anyway. And maybe the two, as described, don't go together. Or maybe they do?

Personally, if this isn't considered a fully restored car, I don't know what is. Surely it doesn't need to look like Tony's car down in Florida. Dana's car, yes, probably Michael's too. Those are a couple beautiful looking cars. This car advertised for sale ain't no project, that much is for sure.

Chris, that's nice that you want to repost for sale ads or pictures of other people's cars, but perhaps when you do that, you could add something of value to the discussion of those cars? You gave it your opinion and how it wasn't worth what it's for sale for, I was just thinking maybe you'd like to enlighten all of us with why you think that? You certainly pour over more DeLorean ads and pictures than most of the rest of us do.

[Michael]

Personally, if this isn't considered a fully restored car, I don't know what is. Surely it doesn't need to look like Tony's car down in Florida. Dana's car, yes, probably Michael's too. Those are a couple beautiful looking cars. This car advertised for sale ain't no project, that much is for sure..

Chris would never lower his standards to buy my car. I used to have problems with his type jumping in my car or leaning on it for a quick FB photo. I was able to solve that by placing a "HELP WANTED" sign on the window. Works like a charm.

[opethmike]

Michael's car is beautiful, but not as beautiful as Michael himself.

[Ron]

I don't get some of the incomplete v/s fully restored discussion... Take the glove box lid. It is all there, so it is complete. But with the dent(s) in it, it's not restored to me. Definitely not fully restored, to most anyone I would guess. So, neither is the vehicle.
(mho;-)

As for $50K, no. ...$65K, [censored]! Not with the defects listed above and:
Coil cover broke/loose, sticker color mismatch, like some others
Door alignment sux X2
Steering wheel stitching
Shifter plate has trim on one side only
Right armrest cap damaged
Firewall is nasty
Short block nasty
Gauge readings look odd to me...maybe not?
Grain mismatch (roof-door area), maybe?

Nice, but not that nice to me...

[jackb]

By that criteria, my car is maybe $5k.
Sticker shades mismatched? Really?

Assuming there are no mechanical/electrical defects or grenlins, I agree that its prob in the $50k range.
How many (if any) Deloreans do you suppose exist that check off every block you list as perfect?

[Michael]

I have seen worse examples bring 50k at Barret Jackson.
Everyone is going ape$#it over the asking price. Just keep in mind the asking price is not the selling price. Nobody bats an eye when some poor schmuck pays 10k or even 15k for a parts car to spend the next 5 years and 30k to restore, but let someone pay market for a turn key example and everyone blows a gasket. Maybe this isn't the car for people like us. Maybe this is the car for a hedge fund manager who can't be bothered with restoring a car because he is so busy counting his money.
One thing is for sure:
Those that don't have a DeLorean get mad when values rise. Those that do own DeLoreans get mad when values rise.



As for $50K, no. ...$65K, [censored]! Not with the defects listed above and:
Coil cover broke/loose, sticker color mismatch, like some others


I should up the insurance on mine based on my coil compartment

5818858189

[Rich_NYS]

50K all day.....

There are several cars on this forum with 50K invested (purchase price + restoration)....ask what theirs should sell for.

We're going to have to keep an eye on this one, then we'll know!

[Ron]

Sticker shades mismatched? Really?
It's stuck on just one of over a dozen other items people have notice only looking at photos a seller wants buyers to see on a "fully restored" vehicle?? Well yeah...just saying.



I should up the insurance on mine based on my coil compartment
lol
If I was selling a D that nice, I'd spend the $152 to replace the cover and sticker (including all of the other ones), before calling it "fully restored" at any price. I wouldn't put that POS on your car even if it was missing.


50K all day.....

There are several cars on this forum with 50K invested (purchase price + restoration)....ask what theirs should sell for.

We're going to have to keep an eye on this one, then we'll know!
I'd consider $50K, if it was really restored....more if fully.
Like I said, just my personal opinion...

It would be nice if we could know the bids in an auction...

[Rich_NYS]

~snip~

It would be nice if we could know the bids in an auction...

+1

[DMC-81]

Personally, if this isn't considered a fully restored car, I don't know what is. Surely it doesn't need to look like Tony's car down in Florida. Dana's car, yes, probably Michael's too. Those are a couple beautiful looking cars. This car advertised for sale ain't no project, that much is for sure.

Thanks Jonathan. :)
------------------

I agree with the minor things pointed out. The surface rust on the stainless exhaust, etc. On the other hand, the features that are rare/unique are relatively low miles and a brand new original frame (which I see are now out of stock).

On the $35k, $50K, $60k valuations, I think it's way above $35K. In my experience, to do a complete restoration where everything works, and everything is show quality, definitely takes a total spend between $40K and $60K, depending on the quality of the car that you start with, how much it needs, and how much you can do yourself.

I have seen nice cars sell for north of $50K recently. Like Michael said, not everyone wants a dead barn find or a running restoration project. It may come as a surprise to some, but there are definitely people willing to spend at the higher end of the range for a restored car. Sometimes they buy the car AND get a few things done, from little odds and ends to a Stage 2.

At shows, when I'm asked what one would have to spend to get a car in a similar condition, I quote $50-60K. The most common response is "Wow, that's (relatively) cheap!" I was once parked next to a beautiful (900hp) 1987 Grand National restomod at a show, and the owner spent $40K to tub, rollcage, and paint it. So yeah, it's all relative.

[David T]

DMCH was getting $60K for their rebuilts. That kind of sets the upper limit market price for a "perfect" car. Not sure what they are getting now or if they are even doing them anymore. They may be doing them to orders. To get more than what DMCH offers the car would have to have something unusual about it like a famous previous owner, being in a movie, that kind of thing, besides being perfect. To ask that kind of a price the car should have been a in a concours and placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd. Then you know it has been objectively judged to be perfect and correct. DMCH can offer some kind of warranty, anyone else can't and that is worth something too.

[Michael]

DMCH was getting $60K for their rebuilts. That kind of sets the upper limit market price for a "perfect" car. Not sure what they are getting now or if they are even doing them anymore. They may be doing them to orders. To get more than what DMCH offers the car would have to have something unusual about it like a famous previous owner, being in a movie, that kind of thing, besides being perfect. To ask that kind of a price the car should have been a in a concours and placed 1st, 2nd or 3rd. Then you know it has been objectively judged to be perfect and correct. DMCH can offer some kind of warranty, anyone else can't and that is worth something too.

I am going to have a local trophy shop make me a "DCS Concours Certified Stainless" or maybe a "Permanant Best of DCS Forever and ever" 3' trophy. That and my "original" window sticker should add about 10k to the value.

58199

[opethmike]

I am going to have a local trophy shop make me a "DCS Concours Certified Stainless" or maybe a "Permanant Best of DCS Forever and ever" 3' trophy. That and my "original" window sticker should add about 10k to the value.

58199

Will you send me an autographed picture, please?

[louielouie2000]

When it comes to values with these cars over the past several years, I fully believe in Dave Swingle's mantra: they're worth whatever someone is willing to pay for them. For example, Mark C's beautiful Stage II car struggled to bring $27,500 after being on the market for months:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?13080-Stage-II-81-Auto-Black-Interior-Gas-Flap-29-950-miles-33K

Meanwhile, cars that are arguably in far worse mechanical and sometimes worse cosmetic condition will fetch nearly twice that amount at auction.

So do I think the car in this thread is worth $63,000? No, for a number of reasons. But is it possible someone will shell out that amount for it? Maybe...