Door alignment and striker questions

[Spittybug]

I have been searching a few threads on this but want some confirmations.... can I unscrew the door striker pins without the backside nut falling down into the body? The reason I ask is that I'm having a hell of a time with my driver door. I've tried moving the rear striker into various positions and it seems like I can't get the door to come down quite far enough....the front latches and looks aligned while the rear, even latched, looks to be marginally too 'high'. Yes, I have the fender loosened and am trying to mate the fender to the door, but it's not quite right. It feels like the door needs to close 1/4" or so more to be right. Although I did just replace the inner door seal and the lift piston, these don't seem to be rubbing or otherwise preventing the closure. I want to remove the striker pins and see if I can push the door closed any further. I DON'T want to lose any backer nut or bracket. I can't find really good pictures of how it all works. When I got my car (12 years ago now, wow) it had a scrape/dent on the underside of the driver door kind of like you might see if you drove the driver side front up onto a curb and the car door bottomed out on the edge of the curb. I don't know if that's what happened since it predates me, but it's that style of dent. I wonder if it might have changed some geometry at the hinges....The fender and pins could have been adjusted to an older, more worn out inner seal and I just didn't know until I put a nice new one on.

Anyone have any experience like this?
Thanks.

[DMC-81]

Hi Owen. No, the nut won’t fall behind where it is accessible (at least as far as I could tell). It is captured in a box in the metal latch frame that allows the otherwise free moving nut to be tightened and therefore it also restricts it’s range of movement. I had to remove a pin to add a washer so I was able to see how it worked and verify that it didn’t fall in the door frame.

[Jonathan]

Agreed on the nut not being able to fall out anywhere.

I did find a couple pictures that try to show what it looks like behind there. Basically imagine a nut with squares sides that slots into a space slightly bigger than the nut itself. That is what allows you to tighten the striker pin without needing to get a wrench on the nut to hold it and it is also what keeps it from falling off and disappearing down in some recess in the body.

On Houston's store pages for those brackets, they actually have photos showing the brackets that would make a pair, one set for each door. And fortunately, you can see the striker pin side on one bracket and the backside showing the nut on the other.

They are here: http://store.delorean.com/p-9490-striker-mt-brkt-rh-rr.aspx

And here: http://store.delorean.com/p-9491-striker-mt-brkt-lh-rr.aspx

Oddly enough, the other two brackets both show the outside view too, so just that first image lets you peek behind to see what you were wondering about.

http://store.delorean.com/p-9510-stkr-mt-brkt-frt-rh.aspx

http://store.delorean.com/p-9509-stkr-mt-brkt-frt-lh.aspx

Here's the important picture saved also in case the links change at some point:

58456

[Gregadeth]

Relatively speaking, a 1/4" gap actually doesn't sound too bad, considering this is a DeLorean. Do you have pics? From what you say it sounds like the door is getting properly latched, just not lining up with the fender. If that's the case I'd focus on adjusting the fender instead.

[David T]

The nut is supposed to be captive in a bracket so you can remove the striker pin. There are 2 reasons to remove a striker pin. To add or remove washers and on early cars you sometimes need to grind the fiberglass so you can get just a bit more adjustment out of the pin. Make sure the head of the striker pin is not hitting the door. You will see scratches on the metal of the door where it hits if it is hitting. You will also feel the door bump and move slightly forward or back (depends on which pin is hitting). Remove washers till the head of the pin is not hitting anymore. The latch locks around the shank of the pin and that is the only thing the latch should touch. Make sure the pin slides right up the middle of the latch without hitting the guide or the sides of the latch. Remember it moves in an arc so make your adjustments accordingly. You may find it easier to do one pin at a time so remove the forward pin and do the rear pin till it is perfect. Once you have it right then do the front pin. Do this on a flat, level spot with good or new door seals. On some cars you need just a little more adjustment than you can get removing ALL of the washers so you may have to grind the head of the striker pin to prevent it from hitting the door. After adjusting the pin make sure the lights still go off after adjusting. Might have to put a piece of rubber tubing on the switch plunger to get it to work. Be sure you get both pins to hit 1st and 2nd locking position as close together as you can. Might have to remove, clean, and lubricate the latches to get them both to work smoothly after doing all of the interior door adjustments as per the procedure. Be patient, this can take a while, especially the first time you do it. I have seen this job get done quickly and I have seen where, after considerable time, it still isn't good. Especially if the door got tweaked and is now flexible.

[WHO1DMC]

My interior lights would flicker with every bump so I took the rubber tip off the plunger put some tissue paper in it put back on problem solved.


Dave B

[mark w]

DMCMW makes and sells an Adjustable length striker pin.

[Roberto]

There's a handy tip in getting the door to position the pins.
Screw in the striker pin but don't tighten it too much, just enough so that it can move when pressure applied.
Then hold the exterior door handle up to open the latch and keeping the handle up gently close the door on the striker pin.
The pressure from the back of the latch should force the pin to its proper position. But don't let the door handle down. Lift the door up and then tighten striker pin. Try door by normal use.
If not satisfied then loosen striker pin slightly and repeat process. Do one pin at a time. Hope this helps.

Robert
vin 3915

[Spittybug]

Thanks everyone, I will be trying your suggestions today and we'll see how it goes.

[Spittybug]

Well, I'm not so sure it's a door thing anymore. Look at the pics. My driver side rear fender was replaced by DMCH about 10 years ago because someone backed into the side of my car. Only the fender was damaged, not the door. That repair was during the famous "Rick era" of the DMCH service department. I ended up with a replacement rear fascia on the car too because when the tech (not Bill) couldn't get things to line up right he drilled holes in the underside of my fascia to screw it to a bracket!! I believe he was fired shortly thereafter. But that said, I think the whole issue may be associated with a poorly fitted fender and a rocker panel that is hanging too low.

In these pictures the rear striker is remove from the driver door but there is very little downward play if I push on it. Looking at the rubber weatherstripping on the underside of both doors and where it meets the door thresholds, they are both pretty much the same, fueling my belief that it is fender/rocker, not door.

I just tried getting one of the many screws on the underside of the rocker out.... pretty severely rusted. I fear they will be a bear. If I understand correctly, I have to remove those bottom screws and bend it back to get to the rocker support which is the piece that must be connected to the fender properly. You can't really see from the pictures but the gap between the driver side rocker and fender has very visible screws/pins/whatever between them and the gap closes up if I push up on the rocker.

Any hints?

5845758458584595846058461

[Spittybug]

After reading some old threads I learned NOT to remove those lower screws on the rocker. I popped the rocker down from the pins that protrude from the plate and discovered that the back 6 or so pins/holes were either missing plastic retainer clips or they were badly broken. In addition, whoever it was that put the fender on didn't tighten 2 of the 3 mounting screws on the underside; they were half hanging out.

I need to replace a bunch of plastic retainer clips, but I've been able to position the fender correctly and get it pretty darned close to perfect (within the realm of Delorean fit and finish that is....) Time to clean up and re glue the outer door seals since they were totally gummed up with old contact cement.

This car is going to need a good cleaning to get all the fingerprints and grease off the stainless after all this work.

[David T]

All the advice given to adjust things was based on a stock car that did not have body work done. Once things are disturbed it is imperative all of the parts are put back in proper alignment. There is no way you can "adjust" for things out of alignment. There just isn't enough adjustment. Even of the door was not damaged, it may have been tweaked out of position either when the fender was damaged or when the replacement fender was installed in an attempt to line things up. To adjust the striker pins it has to be assumed the door is in good alignment with the fiberglass tub and the other panels. The door should be aligned to the tub and the other panels then adjusted to fit around that. Very hard to do, especially if you have never done it before. You cannot align the door by adjusting the striker pins. You must move the hinges to do that.

[Spittybug]

While I've got the door closing well and have the rear fender matching up decently, I went and took the T panel off since it looks like it needed a slight re positioning. The driver door would scrape it a bit when opening. With the T panel off I took a good look at the height of each door and compared them. There is no doubt in my mind that the driver door is is a bit 'higher' than the passenger door at the back hinge area. I looked and neither one appears to have been shimmed. The driver rear hinge is pretty globby with factory-looking RTV goop. The bolt up through the hinge on the passenger side looks like it has a couple of more turns exposed above the nut (pics), again supporting my believe that the driver one sits a bit higher. Don't worry about the level in the picture, it is for reference not for determining level. Look at the positions of the hinge bolt and the head of the piston on the driver versus passenger door (pic). I was careful to not distort this in the camera angle.

The roof box is in good shape, no separation, no gaps. Years ago I took Dave Swingle's advice and drove some screws in from the back to keep everything from loosening with age. Good advice.

Perhaps it has always been like this and I've never really noticed. One of those factory fit and finish items I suppose........ I'm going to try and increase the padding under the T panel a bit and raise it to make the whole top level. Need to replace the rubber that runs over the gap between the door and the T Panel. You know, the $20 piece that DMCH sells. The one that lasts about 5 years before it tears..... anyone know of where to get just a piece of thin rubber to cut my own?

[Jonathan]

Owen, your driver door could be closing further too and that's what the difference is. Think of it as going further into the striker pins and grabbing the latches deeper. And kind of sucking the door in a bit further than flush. You might be able to see that sort of thing if comparing how the closed door looks to the fenders on either side. Though if you've moved your fenders around to try and match this, then maybe not.

[David T]

Best advice is to not mess with the factory adjustments if they were never touched. When they did the doors they had experience, you have none. The chances of you doing any better are low. The doors were aligned to the fiberglass body to close well. All of the other panels are then adjusted to fit to the doors. All adjustments are a compromise to get everything to fit as good as possible (not perfect). Try to move the Tee top over a bit but again, don't expect to get it perfect. Be careful of all the sharp edges. When drilling out the rivets for the outer door seals protect the torsion bar and use a depth stop so you don't touch the outer skin with the drill bit.

[dn010]

Looks like Owen is already using screws instead of rivets so he should be fine there. I also agree not to touch the door adjustment unless it's the bitter end and you've no other options.


Best advice is to not mess with the factory adjustments if they were never touched. When they did the doors they had experience, you have none. The chances of you doing any better are low. The doors were aligned to the fiberglass body to close well. All of the other panels are then adjusted to fit to the doors. All adjustments are a compromise to get everything to fit as good as possible (not perfect). Try to move the Tee top over a bit but again, don't expect to get it perfect. Be careful of all the sharp edges. When drilling out the rivets for the outer door seals protect the torsion bar and use a depth stop so you don't touch the outer skin with the drill bit.

[Spittybug]

I was reading some other threads about torsion bars... ugh. I decided to put a feeler gauge behind mine and couldn't. Right up against hinge. No apparent sign of nicks or wear however. Passenger side is fine. I took another good look at things and there is absolutely no sign of roof box movement.

So it is this one hinge area that seems to have the issues. Too 'high' and rubbing on torsion bar. Lots of factory RTV. I'm not sure what I could even do if I DID decide to take the door off. I suppose the hinge could be ground a little to provide clearance for the bar to pass. If there is no shim under that hinge raising it up, how would I even lower it.... Maybe they had to raise it BECAUSE of torsion bar clearance.....There does not appear to be a shim moving the hinge outward either.

If it has lasted this long with no issue I see no reason it won't continue to last. My fear is that something has indeed shifted/moved that I just can't detect and I'm now going to have issues. I have always tried to maintain the least amount of stress on my bars as possible. I'm not one for doors flying open! Perhaps a prudent move would be to remove the bar and slightly grind the hinge to ensure that it isn't rubbing. Leave the door on and carry on.

[David T]

Wrap your fingers around the torsion bar and pull on it. While doing that slide a 2 X 3 inch piece of flat rubber in between the bar and the hinge. Do not try to grind the hinge to lower the door.

[Spittybug]

Wrap your fingers around the torsion bar and pull on it. While doing that slide a 2 X 3 inch piece of flat rubber in between the bar and the hinge. Do not try to grind the hinge to lower the door.

I wasn't advocating lowering the hinge by grinding. I was suggesting to mildly grind the side face of the hinge that is up against the torsion bar, creating the necessary clearance. Simply pulling the bar and slipping rubber behind it sounds easy but essentially bends the bar a bit. Preliminary inspection would indicate that I wouldn't be able to get any rubber behind it in any case.

[Spittybug]

I was able to slip a piece of shower pan membrane rubber behind the bar. Tough stuff. I don't think I could go much thicker if I wanted to.

[David T]

I misunderstood what you wanted to grind. Bending the bar slightly will have no ill effects but letting it get scratched against the hinge certainly will. As long as the bar is not actually touching the hinge it doesn't matter what you stick in there as long as it won't scratch the bar. Do something on the other door too.

[Spittybug]

I got my buddy's help today and removed the door. Question; when the torsion bar goes back in, does it have to go back in its original orientation? I don't see why it should. So long as the loading is the same (which on mine was very close to being unloaded with the door perfectly vertical, YMMV), the rotation of the bar shouldn't matter - it's not indexed in any way I can tell. Why do I ask? It seems that it isn't quite straight, probably a result of years in the same twisted position, and rotating it alleviates the touch against the hinge previously mentioned. I ground away a little bit of the hinge to make sure of the clearance.

It is apparent that someone before me has monkeyed with this door, as suspected. LOTS of RTV removed and I found that the rear hinge that I diagnosed as being too 'high' does indeed have shims underneath it. Surface rust too. I'm glad I've stripped off the RTV because I can now treat the box with POR-15 and neutralize the rust before it goes any deeper. It's not much more than surface rust now. I'll wire brush and then POR-15 it. The bolts into the door and the bolts holding the torsion bar were all galled/partially stripped. Quick trip to Ace..... The fiberglass flange that the T-panel screws to at the top rear of the doors has some extra screw holes in it telling me that someone needed some serious latitude in adjusting the T-panel too.

I think, despite the risk, that I want to carefully mark the location of the hinges and then remove them. I want to make sure that I get to any rust underneath them and treat it. I can then remove some shim and see if it fixes the door closure. If not, I can always put them back.

I bought a new rubber weatherstrip for the door and easily riveted it to the door once the door was removed. Easy. The key is the fact that the door is bowed and the T-panel cutout is bowed too. That means the rubber must be bowed to conform or you get too much sticking out at the leading and trailing edges. I found that crazy glue is WONDERFUL for sticking the rubber to the stainless in this application where you won't need to undo it. Rubber cement for other rubber to body panel....

Lastly, as a 'while I'm in there' item, I cleaned all of the electrical connections using my Dremel tool and a narrow abrasive bit. They were oxidized!!!!

[Spittybug]

Well crap. I marked the hinge locations with tape and a scratch in the fiberglass so that I can return them. I used penetrating oil since things looked old and rusty under the RTV. Sure enough, under the hinges is rusty. I need to examine more but I think they are structurally OK though. I may have caught this in time. One problem leads to another of course and the front hinge's hold down stud snapped on me. Didn't take much force at all, so I suspect he was already in bad shape.

Options? Glue down bracket. Tack weld bracket to stud. New box. Others?

The rear hinge in question had a big blob of RTV underneath it that must have been there before the hinge was screwed down on top of it. It was indeed raising it higher that the shims. I also have rust to clean up under there.

[dn010]

Pull your headliner. Remove broken bolt. Replace broken bolt with a new one. Done.

I'm not sure if all cars were the same, but this is what it took for me anyway and I still have issues with my driver's side door.

Also, a little late now, but when I remove the T-bars I mark the end with line of nail polish or similar from the bar to the bracket, that way you know exactly where to put the bracket when you bolt with the bar, under tension, back to the car as it was when it was removed.

Last thing I'd recommend is while you're there, take a cell phone on video or a bore scope and put it down in the access in the roof, take a look around in there to see the status of the inside of the box.

[Spittybug]

Pull your headliner. Remove broken bolt. Replace broken bolt with a new one. Done.


This bolt goes through the roof? I thought it was a stud welded to the metal plate that is part of the roof box assembly...... Or are you saying that i should now MAKE it a bolt through the roof?

[dn010]

On my car this bolt went all the way through to the other side. Saying you thought it was welded makes me curious if it is 'factory' or a PO fix, might explain why I still can't get this particular door aligned right. I have photos, somewhere, of this area but it was back in 2003 or so, I'll have to dig them up.

[Spittybug]

Well crap..... looking forward from access hole in roof box. Certainly no indication of this from the exterior.

[dn010]

The one side looks pretty typical but the other side looks like, in the mid right side of the picture, that you're starting to get some metal separation / rust chips. You might bang on it with a punch from the outside to see how weak it is and if it goes through. A roof box is on my list of things to do, but not until I absolutely need it because that is a huge job.

[Spittybug]

I spoke at length with my friend Ian who went through the roof box exercise with one of his cars. Like everyone else, he advocates taking every possible alternate route before replacing the box. I have checked the integrity of it with a screwdriver and hammer and it seems solid. The inside is kind of scary to look at though. I think I'm going to build myself a mop brush that will fit in the box and after removing loose rust, will slop the entire interior with POR-15. It doesn't want a rust free surface to cling to, it LOVES rust. I had great results with this stuff on my Spitfire and Beetle restorations. I may consider carefully cutting another hatch in the box for easier access and then welding it up.

I removed my headliner and found the giant fender washer with stud glued to the underside like Dan mentioned. I wasn't able to unscrew or to push the stud out. I ground it flush on the top and have now drilled a hole through it. I don't know if the stud and the brass body washer are one integral piece or not. No amount of banging or twisting seems to separate the two. I have a call into Sarah at DMCH to ask if they have this piece since I can't find it on the site. If anyone knows offhand, please tell me. Worst case is I just drill the hole wider and pop in my own bolt. The 'head' of the existing one will probably want to be ground/drilled out to leave room under the headliner. The attached pic is what it looked like before I drilled down its center.

When I put this all back together again I think I'm going to seal everything up with that stuff you see on TV, Flex-seal. A nice coating of that on screw heads, seams, everywhere in the top hinge area. I think that will seal things up nicely. The vertical bolt holes in the hinges have elongated holes for adjustment, so those will need filling with RTV first. One of mine wasn't well filled and I suspect that was a source of water intrusion.

[dn010]

I heated up the whole thing and used a chisel/hammer from the side to separate it. It's set to the fiberglass with epoxy. Careful you don't chew into the fiberglass. Maybe it was the heat or maybe it was already separated but mine not very difficult to remove. I guess it just depends on what the workers felt like having the epoxy nozzle on that day, either min or max.

[Spittybug]

Sarah confirmed for me that they do not have these parts. She said Bill, the DMCH mechanic, grinds down the old head and inserts a new bolt through the big washer. Sounds like a plan.

I fished inside the box with a neo magnet held in the jaws of my retrieval tool. Pulled out a pile of rust, but seems to be just years of accumulated surface rust that is sloughing off rather than big chucks of metal. No through holes that I have yet to discover. I ordered a boroscope attachment for my phone that will really help see in there.

The access port is pretty small, especially when you consider all of the wiring harness mess in the way. Anyone see a reason I can't cut a port further forward of it and give myself better access? When done I'll weld it back so that it isn't a source of leaking. I don't think the top surface of the roof box is under such stress (with doors off) that cutting a hole in it would compromise the structure, do you? I think the downside of cutting the hole is smaller than missing sections when I POR-15 the inside...

It's all going to have to wait a bit. The wife and I need to drive to Long Island to empty her mother's condo that is being sold. A week of meeting with the nursing home, doctors, lawyers, realtors, social workers, etc. awaits..... drink one for me as I will be having several myself I'm sure. The upside is I'll visit Rob Grady while I'm there and catch up. My car was originally owned by a LI guy and Rob has some history on it.

[Spittybug]

I pried the giant washer off the roof and didn't need any heat. Just slowly tapping the screwdriver under it separated it without any damage. I've drilled it to the correct diameter and ground down the head a bit. I need to get to Ace and see if I can find a pan head or something other than a bolt head to minimize the distance it protrudes. Actually, it would probably be smart to test fit the headliner with a bolt in place and see if it actually matters....

I've had no push back by anyone on the idea of cutting the roof box. While it is indeed structural in nature (like how a convertible has beefed up rockers to compensate for not having a roof for structural integrity, it isn't like it is fragile. It acts like a backbone for the car to help prevent it from folding in the middle and of course the front and rear sections provide anchor points for the doors (in addition to the bolts down into the car). I'm talking about making an access hatch purely in the top of the center section (the tunnel), like the existing wiring loom hatch, and rewelding it when done. In actuality I think this box could have been made with an essentially open top and some bracing (like a cage) had the designers realized this need of access nearly 40 years down the road.....

I'm going to see Rob Grady next week and let him test a set of my lower control arm braces. I'll see what he thinks about the box.