Super Frustrated Reinstalling Transmission

[AirmanPika]

So I'm in the process of trying to get my transmission reinstalled and I am hitting a literal wall. I get the engine and transmission tilted as best I can to try to get everything lined up, get the spline in line with the bearing, go to insert and bonk. It's like I am continually hitting the edge of the bearing wall and no amount of shifting the transmission around seems to work. At one point I realized the angles were resulting in the rear of the transmission getting caught but I resolved that. Any suggestions or anything else I might be catching on that one can think of? I read through Bitsyncmaster's thread since he just reinstalled his but nothing suggested there seemed to help.

[opethmike]

Yes. What I've done to mate transmission/engines together before is to go to the hardware store and pick up some bolts of the same thread/pitch as the bellhousing to engine bolts, but much longer (twice or more). Then I cut the heads off of those long bolts, and screw the now studs into the engine. You've now effectively created guide pins. That will help out a lot.

[DMC-81]

Yes. What I've done to mate transmission/engines together before is to go to the hardware store and pick up some bolts of the same thread/pitch as the bellhousing to engine bolts, but much longer (twice or more). Then I cut the heads off of those long bolts, and screw the now studs into the engine. You've now effectively created guide pins. That will help out a lot.

+1. I used 4 M10 x 80mm bolts . If you get the gearbox correctly aligned with the engine, it should not hang up.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Do you have the engine supported at the "front" (rear of the car)? Before I pulled my transmission I made a "bracket" to hold the engine in the correct angle. I had read that the engine will tilt back when the transmission is removed.

I also did the two bolt (cut head off) to guide me. Those bolts can't be to long since your space is limited fitting the transmission. But long enough that when installed you can grip the shank with vise grips to remove them.

Here is a photo of my guide bolts which I remember were probably a little to long but worked for me.

[SS Spoiler]

Cut a screwdriver slot in the end of the bolt...

[dn010]

Is it a manual? If so - did you use a clutch alignment tool? Stupid question but crazier things have happened.

[Nicholas R]

Is it a manual? If so - did you use a clutch alignment tool? Stupid question but crazier things have happened.

This was my question as well. If the input shaft is in the splines, but the shaft wont go into the pilot bearing, the disc may not be aligned properly on the flywheel.

[David T]

Also double check that the dowel pins are in the right holes.

[AirmanPika]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll give em a shot tomorrow. Also yes I did use the alignment tool. It goes in just fine so it really is just an angle thing.

[dn010]

If angle is a problem, You can try a jack under the front of the engine to get the flywheel side tilted down. Or if the jack is in the way you can use a ratchet strap connected to the front of the engine and the crossbrace.

[DMC-81]

If it helps, here is a picture of the angle of the gearbox mated:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=55798&d=1522255258

Make sure the engine is rigidly supported in its normal position. It want to tilt back with the gearbox removed. After that, I found that I needed to elevate the other end of the transmission. I used a the wooden piece on the jack and slid it back and forth to achieve the right angle as determined by the 4 bolts/guide pins.

Good luck

[AirmanPika]

Better late than never I guess. Now that it is warm again I took all the advice into account and the transmission finally slotted in. The angling was a bit different for me vs the photo but the same logic applied. Now I just need to remember how everything reattached. I took the original out nearly a year ago now and did a terribad job keeping track of all the parts not knowing it would be this long.

One question I have is the torque spec for the bolts mounting it to the engine. I may be just misunderstanding the manual but the closest I could find was a mention of 37 ft/lbs for 10mm bolts. Is this correct?

Anyway, glad it's finally progressing again as I need to get this car road ready to move to California later this year. Thanks everyone again for the assistance.

[DMC-81]

Better late than never I guess. Now that it is warm again I took all the advice into account and the transmission finally slotted in. The angling was a bit different for me vs the photo but the same logic applied. Now I just need to remember how everything reattached. I took the original out nearly a year ago now and did a terribad job keeping track of all the parts not knowing it would be this long.

One question I have is the torque spec for the bolts mounting it to the engine. I may be just misunderstanding the manual but the closest I could find was a mention of 37 ft/lbs for 10mm bolts. Is this correct?

Anyway, glad it's finally progressing again as I need to get this car road ready to move to California later this year. Thanks everyone again for the assistance.

Yes, that'll do. On page F:02:01, it specifies 34-41 ft/lbs for the 10mm diameter bolts. Although it doesn't call out the transmission to engine, the "Clutch Housing to Case" spec is what I used.

[AirmanPika]

Yes, that'll do. On page F:02:01, it specifies 34-41 ft/lbs for the 10mm diameter bolts. Although it doesn't call out the transmission to engine, the "Clutch Housing to Case" spec is what I used.

Cool thanks.

[ramblinmike]

If angle is a problem, You can try a jack under the front of the engine to get the flywheel side tilted down. Or if the jack is in the way you can use a ratchet strap connected to the front of the engine and the crossbrace.

The engine had tilted down at the rear of the car when I did mine. Fought with it for a couple of days lying on my back. When I realized the engine had tilted it went right together. I used a block of wood on a floor jack in the rear edge of the oil pan to lift the rear (front?) of the motor.


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[David T]

When you are underneath it can be difficult to appreciate the correct angles when you are looking up. A good reason to use the long guide pin/bolt trick to make sure you are aligned.

[AirmanPika]

The engine had tilted down at the rear of the car when I did mine. Fought with it for a couple of days lying on my back. When I realized the engine had tilted it went right together. I used a block of wood on a floor jack in the rear edge of the oil pan to lift the rear (front?) of the motor.

Indeed

60266

[AirmanPika]

Whomever designed the clutch layout on the DeLorean should be ashamed of themselves. Took me all day to connect and bleed the thing. I thoroughly shredded my hands and arms in the process. Also glad I bought the big bottle of brake fluid. Took a lot more than I expected though half of it was likely used flushing the gunk from the lines.

[AirmanPika]

Welp the car is running again. I was able to get the bulk of things connected back up and for good measure since the system was drained I swapped a couple coolant hoses that I missed when I replaced em all years ago.

Got a few areas to address. First is I noticed the fans are not kicking on so I'll need to check if the otterstat is bad again or if it is something else. Luckily plenty of threads on that subject to read up on. Second is I can't get the car into reverse so I am guessing I need to adjust the cable there. Finally, I need to pop the fuel tank plate and address some corrosion that seems to have occurred since I was last in there about 10 years ago. I don't have any new brake/clutch fluid leaks so it is likely just some badly touched up areas.

Hopefully once these are addressed I'll be able to get the car on the road and start seeing how the replacement transmission really behaves. Its nice making progress again.

[DMC-81]

Welp the car is running again. I was able to get the bulk of things connected back up and for good measure since the system was drained I swapped a couple coolant hoses that I missed when I replaced em all years ago.

Got a few areas to address. First is I noticed the fans are not kicking on so I'll need to check if the otterstat is bad again or if it is something else. Luckily plenty of threads on that subject to read up on. Second is I can't get the car into reverse so I am guessing I need to adjust the cable there. Finally, I need to pop the fuel tank plate and address some corrosion that seems to have occurred since I was last in there about 10 years ago. I don't have any new brake/clutch fluid leaks so it is likely just some badly touched up areas.

Hopefully once these are addressed I'll be able to get the car on the road and start seeing how the replacement transmission really behaves. Its nice making progress again.

Good news. For the fans coming on, look for corrosion at the otterstat connections. That happened to me when I first got my car and was a simple fix.

[David T]

Connect the two wires that go to the "O" switch together and (with the ignition key on) the fans should run. Put the wires back on the switch and heat the car up. If the fans don't run replace the "O" switch. make sure you have the uprated circuit breaker for the cooling fans.

[AirmanPika]

Well I haven't had any luck thus far with the fans. I jumped the otterstat connectors with no luck. I also looked at my fuses again and I seem to have installed the fan fail fuse fix years ago too and those are also good. Gonna have to continue to troubleshoot the fans.

In the meantime I popped the fuel tank panel and as expected the rust mitigation I did 10 years ago wasn't so great. I'll have to strip the panel and frame parts as best I can and coat em with POR 15 methinks. Luckily it is still solid.

60294

[AirmanPika]

Totally unrelated to the transmission at this stage...but I fixed the fans. Turns out relay 6 (not commonly related to the usual fan fail fix) was giving me issues connection wise relating to the fans. They work again after a few reseats to get it going again.

I also gave the frame and closing panel a primer, POR 15, and final smoke gray spray coat. Hopefully this will hold up better than my last mitigation attempt 10 years ago.

Looks like I also need to tighten up one of the hoses on the top left of the radiator. Its been leaking badly at top temp since my overheat.

60418

[AirmanPika]

Well I have a problem. I finally got the car down...and the only gear that works is reverse. Any thoughts?

[AirmanPika]

OK I think its worse than I thought...when in neutral and gears 1-5 the wheels move backward...and in actual reverse they move forward. Was I sold a badly "rebuilt" transmission? Its like it came from a car with a front mounted engine where everything would be reversed.

[Spittybug]

You rebuilt the transmission based on the manual, right? It is written for a FRONT MOUNTED transmission, not a rear mounted one! Luckily, all that is required is flipping one gear around.....

[AirmanPika]

You rebuilt the transmission based on the manual, right? It is written for a FRONT MOUNTED transmission, not a rear mounted one! Luckily, all that is required is flipping one gear around.....

No I bought it from John Hervey who claimed it was rebuilt. I'm regretting ever having done so now. It took him months to deliver it, I had to wait till it was warm again to work on the car...and now this absolute bull**it. Oh and his magic seals leak. I wasted an entire year and months of labor only to end up in a crap situation.

[SS Spoiler]

Don't feel bad I did the same thing!

[Spittybug]

No I bought it from John Hervey who claimed it was rebuilt. I'm regretting ever having done so now. It took him months to deliver it, I had to wait till it was warm again to work on the car...and now this absolute bull**it. Oh and his magic seals leak.

And I thought it was an urban legend.....lol....glad to hear that it was Hervey and not you that made the mistake, but sorry that you have to go through it. Hervey strikes again.....
But, allow me to laugh at him and his 'expertise'....:ohcrap:

[AirmanPika]

So how hard is it to fix this? Would I have to have all the tools required for a transmission rebuild or is it an easy gear flip I could do with minimal effort? I'm sure Hervey will do his upmost to not answer or help me at this point so I'm likely on my own.

[Spittybug]

It's been a while since I had the case split open....and I don't have the manual in front of me. But IIRC, there is a single crown gear (I think it is called) that can be flipped to remedy situation. Check the forum for more info....
The hassle is of course removing the transmission, cracking it, flipping, resealing (hard to get it not to leak) and then going through the whole reinstall.

Me, I'd consider suing for incompetence and the cost of the rework..... or at least a 100% refund.

[opethmike]

Take the transmission out, split the case, flip the diff. Put case back together, put transmission in car.

[AirmanPika]

It's been a while since I had the case split open....and I don't have the manual in front of me. But IIRC, there is a single crown gear (I think it is called) that can be flipped to remedy situation. Check the forum for more info....
The hassle is of course removing the transmission, cracking it, flipping, resealing (hard to get it not to leak) and then going through the whole reinstall.

Me, I'd consider suing for incompetence and the cost of the rework..... or at least a 100% refund.

Yea...Christ. I'm supposed to move in a month and a half and now this. :facepalm:

Not sure what the hell to do at this point.

[DMC-81]

OK I think its worse than I thought...when in neutral and gears 1-5 the wheels move backward...and in actual reverse they move forward. Was I sold a badly "rebuilt" transmission? Its like it came from a car with a front mounted engine where everything would be reversed.


No I bought it from John Hervey who claimed it was rebuilt. I'm regretting ever having done so now. It took him months to deliver it, I had to wait till it was warm again to work on the car...and now this absolute bull**it. Oh and his magic seals leak. I wasted an entire year and months of labor only to end up in a crap situation.


Yea...Christ. I'm supposed to move in a month and a half and now this. :facepalm:

Not sure what the hell to do at this point.

Oh boy, that's disheartening. Hervey definitely struck again. He needs to make this rookie rebuild mistake right....no excuses.

I agree with the previous comments on what technical steps to follow. In case you find yourself on your own, here's my manual transmission rebuild thread if it helps:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?14544-5-Speed-gearbox-flaw-repair

Also, let us know if you have any questions.

[David T]

I doubt John H actually did the rebuild, he either had it done or whoever he got the trans from did it. In any case he is responsible for this but it is entirely fixable. He should offer something to make it right unless you got the trans at a big discount. Anyway the worst part is you are going to have to take the trans out, open it up, flip the Diff, close it up and reinstall the whole thing again. It can be done in 1 day if you have some help, good tools and a good place to work. Probably the best idea is to move and worry about this afterwards.

[AirmanPika]

We shall see. I shot him an e-mail with the details and my proposal. I'll try to call him tomorrow too (if he answers).

Worst case if I don't get any assistance I think my best option will be to clean up and reinstall my old transmission as a temp solution (it works...it just isn't great) and deal with the rebuilt one once I am in California. Then I'll have the time. Good thing I didn't send the old one back as a core right off the bat. I was worried just this kind of thing would happen.

[DMCMW Dave]

We shall see. I shot him an e-mail with the details and my proposal. I'll try to call him tomorrow too (if he answers).

Worst case if I don't get any assistance I think my best option will be to clean up and reinstall my old transmission as a temp solution (it works...it just isn't great) and deal with the rebuilt one once I am in California. Then I'll have the time. Good thing I didn't send the old one back as a core right off the bat. I was worried just this kind of thing would happen.

It's worth opening it up then, gives you a chance to see the teeth on the sliding gear/synchros, check the roll pin (double?) etc. before you put it back in the car.

[AirmanPika]

So how fast and prolonged can one safely drive on the reverse (which is now my single drive) gear? Just asking for planning purposes if I end up trying to limp it to a shop in its current state.

[Ron]

Just pretend it is in 1st and watch your tach. The ratios are very close 3.364 v/s 3.1818.

[AirmanPika]

So reading the following page...

http://www.ls1delorean.com/2011/10/i-wonder-whats-inside-transmission.html#!/2011/10/i-wonder-whats-inside-transmission.html

I'm trying to understand what "flip the differential" entails exactly. Having no experience on this matter...do the gears shafts just kinda float in the case allowing one to get the diff back in on the opposite side?

EDIT: Nevermind...that's exactly what it is. Should have just watched this first https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbaglMfUszU

PS: Thank you website and youtube video makers.

[AirmanPika]

Well no one locally wants to deal with it so instead of opening up a can of worms I spoke with John and it looks like I'll be sending it back. He'll pay for the freight and issue me a refund.

[AirmanPika]

Anyone know how much the manual transmission weighs? Been trying to find it and can't seem to locate it anywhere. I'm coordinating to ship it back and need this for the freight arrangement.

[AirmanPika]

Well I finally got it back on the road again. Shifts better with the new clutch slave but still noticing the original issues I wanted a new transmission for in the first place.

60548

Of course now I have to wonder when I'll get my refund. Strange how Hervey shuts down his website the day after I notified him of the old transmission being returned.

[AirmanPika]

Well...sh*t. I can't be mad considering the circumstances but at the same time...

[AirmanPika]

God I hope I wasn't a cause.