Valuation - DeLorean is "one of the hottest collector cars"

[Rich]

Here's a current piece about DeLorean valuations from Hagerty including some of the factors in its favor, not least of which is the vendor parts support. Thank you, vendors!

LINK: Hagerty: "One of the hottest collector cars on the market" (https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/07/19/delorean-dmc-12-getting-the-last-laugh?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Daily_News_Tuesday_July_23)

Excerpts:


Now, with a Hagerty Vehicle Rating of 84, it is one of the hottest collector cars on the market. Seriously.....

Meanwhile, the two-seat DeLorean DMC-12 keeps rising in both appeal and value. Its HVR rose two points since the previous rating, thanks to a spike in insurance quotes and policies, as well as a 1.7-percent increase in its Hagerty Price Guide values. The average value of a DeLorean in #2 (Excellent) condition is $46,300, regardless of model year. That’s nearly double its #2 value of $24,200 in 2011. Prices have risen 7 percent in the last year, 42 percent in the last three years, and 50 percent in the last five.

[Michael]

"It's better than gold"
JZD

60766

[opethmike]

That's dumb. People that pay that much for DeLoreans are dumb because DeLoreans are dumb. Mine is particularly dumb. You're dumb for reading this.

[About time]

Sitting home yesterday evening when a guy rings my bell, "Is that your Delorean in the driveway?"

Yes, it is, what can I help you with?

Guy: "Are you selling it?"

Me: "No, I just got her a few months ago."

Guy: "Can I ask you what she's worth?"

Me: "Sure, as she sits 35-40K"

Guy: "I'll give you 25K for her."

Me: "Did you not hear me, She's not for sale and she's worth a minimum 10K more then that." Thanks for stopping bye and showing an interest.

Guy: "Is that one of the Hi birds they made before closing shop?"

I just closed the door.

[andyo]

So based on a “fair” condition value of $21,200 from Hagerty, would that make a poor condition car worth $10? I see Hagerty doesn’t go below fair, so this would just be conjecture. I looked at a car recently thats been sitting outside in a non running condition for nearly 30 years... wondering what a car like that could really be worth.

[andyo]

So based on a “fair” condition value of $21,200 from Hagerty, would that make a poor condition car worth $10? I see Hagerty doesn’t go below fair, so this would just be conjecture. I looked at a car recently thats been sitting outside in a non running condition for nearly 30 years... wondering what a car like that could really be worth.

just to clarify my meaning, That's $10,000, assuming each condition tier drops the value approximately 10,000.

[Josh]

So based on a “fair” condition value of $21,200 from Hagerty, would that make a poor condition car worth $10? I see Hagerty doesn’t go below fair, so this would just be conjecture. I looked at a car recently thats been sitting outside in a non running condition for nearly 30 years... wondering what a car like that could really be worth.

As far as I understand and have seen non-running project cars go for, the "fair" condition lines up with that almost.

There are no $10k deloreans out there anymore. Unless the seller is uniformed.

[Delorean02378]

Josh is correct, there are no longer any sub $10,000 clear titled Deloreans for sale. With that said, I haven't seen any salvage sub $10,000 Deloreans for sale either. I'd say the majority fall between the $25,000 and $35,000 range. Obviously, there are exceptions. Someone on the forum used to have a chart with all the eBay sales from the previous year, it also showed an average price.

Prices will continue to rise.

[Spittybug]

Josh is correct, there are no longer any sub $10,000 clear titled Deloreans for sale. With that said, I haven't seen any salvage sub $10,000 Deloreans for sale either. I'd say the majority fall between the $25,000 and $35,000 range. Obviously, there are exceptions. Someone on the forum used to have a chart with all the eBay sales from the previous year, it also showed an average price.

Prices will continue to rise.


Or higher for a made-reliable car.

[Totally 80s]

Article talks about prices rising then ends the article with this.

More recently, and much closer to reality, a 1981 DMC-12 sold for $23,100 at RM Sotheby’s Auburn Spring Auction in May."

That's the price of a Honda Civic.

[andyo]

Article talks about prices rising then ends the article with this.

More recently, and much closer to reality, a 1981 DMC-12 sold for $23,100 at RM Sotheby’s Auburn Spring Auction in May."

That's the price of a Honda Civic.

I think that sentence was eluding to the previous statement that someone paid $541,000 for a BTTF survivor car. You do see a lot of cars listed for sale in the high 30s and 40s. I would expect those to be excellent cars. Check out the completed listing on eBay. gives you a good idea of what cars actually sell for. a running and driving car with issues is probably in the low 20s, maybe that car was one of those.

[CFI]

You do see a lot of cars listed for sale in the high 30s and 40s. I would expect those to be excellent cars.

Earlier today an EBay auction ended on a DeLorean that sold for $35,000. It was far from excellent. Very good, maybe. It had lots of minor issues: torn door seals, cracked windshield, faded louvres, etc. Auction stared at $500, no reserve. Frankly I didn’t think it would get into the high twenty’s. Perhaps there is indeed an upward trend in price.

[Michael]

The ones that are in the market to buy a DeLorean are not quite ready to admit the upswing. That's fine, you can continue to sit back and watch others make their dreams come true while you reminisce about the days when gas was 1.25 a gallon and a moon pie was a quarter.

[andyo]

The ones that are in the market to buy a DeLorean are not quite ready to admit the upswing. That's fine, you can continue to sit back and watch others make their dreams come true while you reminisce about the days when gas was 1.25 a gallon and a moon pie was a quarter.

Moon pies are delicious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rich_NYS]

This seems like a good time to revive the "finance/don't finance" debate, as well as: "are 2015 DeLorean prices leading to a bubble?" I think we all know the answers now....

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7862-Did-you-finance-your-Delorean&p=206376&viewfull=1#post206376

I can recall a few discussions where some of us speculated the DeLorean would appreciate at a % rate higher than a lending interest rate, and/or the personal savings rate for those who were "saving up." I encouraged perspective buyers to finance if their monthly savings was < or = to a loan payment. The basic rules of economics were applicable all day when I decided on both of my DeLorean purchases and they worked out well.

I also recall my thought process when I overpaid a few K for VIN 4728 in 2015: I expected the value would "catch up" within a year or two (it did,) I'd be well in the black soon enough (I am,) and I might not get another chance to buy a running 5-speed/solid frame/<$20K (I've seen a few, but they sold faster than I could respond.) :)

[mr_maxime]

Article talks about prices rising then ends the article with this.

More recently, and much closer to reality, a 1981 DMC-12 sold for $23,100 at RM Sotheby’s Auburn Spring Auction in May."

That's the price of a Honda Civic.

Hahaha, I had a lot of coworkers in the past think I made a LOT more money with 6 figure salary cause I owned a Delorean. I told several of them that mine cost less than a brand new civic.

[dodint]

I financed mine. No regrets. I think if I sold it now I'd easily get my buy-in and interest cost back. Probably wouldn't get the $8k I sunk on a new clutch and HVAC system in the first year, though. If cars in my condition start fetching over $50k (I paid $39.5k for a very nice example at the end of 2017) then I'd start realistically looking at the market and arranging priorities.

[Spittybug]

While values are indeed going up, unless the quality of the 'driveability' also goes up, it is simply an inflationary bubble that will pop as people realize they STILL need to pour money into them as K-jet service gets more and more scarce and expensive, as heretofore roof box maintenance neglect comes home to roost, as hard to find trim pieces climb and climb in price, frames rot......

I'm not saying increasing prices are a bad thing at all (I know, I sold and have no more skin in the game) but I think people are deluding themselves that the higher prices are justified simply because it's been 'serviced' by DMCH or affiliate. A better car deserves a higher price. A run of the mill car should not appreciate at the same rate. Buyer beware.

[AirmanPika]

I don't see my car as an investment. More like an obsession in a murder mobile I have an nostalgic connection to.

That said...these cars HAVE gone up in price over the years. My crappy painted car with a junk clutch would net $15-20k today minimum.

Now? I have a good chance to get $30k+ even in its frankly still shitty state.

That said...if you are on this forum...and you care more about the VALUE of the car...then you really should just go away.

[andyo]

Thank you all for your perspectives! Its very interesting to see the different points of view on this subject. I confess that i have been one of those who has hovered around the idea of buying a car, with a couple missed opportunities in the past under my belt... I do regret those, but at the time i wasn’t really in a good position. Now that i make enough to really afford it, I’m up against all the other people my age who also make enough, which is a large part of why the values are up. In my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SamHill]

The rise is still overdue and relatively understated compared to what cars like the original NSX can garner. Differently stated, don't complain too much; the cost of entry on a well bought D is still a bargain.

[opethmike]

DeLoreans are dumb. Don't make them dumber by engine swapping them or anything. That would be dumb.

[CFI]

DeLoreans are dumb. Don't make them dumber by engine swapping them or anything. That would be dumb.

What is with all these “dumb” posts? Did I miss some joke or something?

[Michael]

What is with all these “dumb” posts? Did I miss some joke or something?

Don't be dumb

[opethmike]

Jokes are dumb.

[AirmanPika]

Dummies

[MrChocky]

Here's a current piece about DeLorean valuations from Hagerty including some of the factors in its favor, not least of which is the vendor parts support. Thank you, vendors!

LINK: Hagerty: "One of the hottest collector cars on the market" (https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/07/19/delorean-dmc-12-getting-the-last-laugh?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Daily_News_Tuesday_July_23)


Yeah. I only just saw this, and have been pondering this too. I can only see them going up in value in 2020. Some of this can be argued to be irrational, but it is what it is:

* Gen Xers like myself being more settled and realizing this that might, finally, be something they could own. (Contrast with boomers owning 50s/60s cars)
* The obvious comparison with the Cybertruck generating incidental interest
* The ongoing "news" about DMC one day, producing cars - and sticker shock associated with that having people look at the originals
* The general behavior and sometimes bubbles in pricing of antiques
* Car shows on Netflix - Car Masters, Fastest Car, Hyperdrive, Rust Valley (and lots more) generating interest in older cars

This car for example is $52K:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/los-gatos-delorean/7021896280.html

To me, that seems wildly priced, given how little apparent work it's had done, but what do I know?

Of course, there might be a downturn in 2020 that changes everything.

Anyway, this is all bad news for me. I'll continue to save and be patient.

[Riley88]

Yeah. I only just saw this, and have been pondering this too. I can only see them going up in value in 2020. Some of this can be argued to be irrational, but it is what it is:

* Gen Xers like myself being more settled and realizing this that might, finally, be something they could own. (Contrast with boomers owning 50s/60s cars)
* The obvious comparison with the Cybertruck generating incidental interest
* The ongoing "news" about DMC one day, producing cars - and sticker shock associated with that having people look at the originals
* The general behavior and sometimes bubbles in pricing of antiques
* Car shows on Netflix - Car Masters, Fastest Car, Hyperdrive, Rust Valley (and lots more) generating interest in older cars

This car for example is $52K:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/los-gatos-delorean/7021896280.html

To me, that seems wildly priced, given how little apparent work it's had done, but what do I know?

Of course, there might be a downturn in 2020 that changes everything.

Anyway, this is all bad news for me. I'll continue to save and be patient.

Anytime i see anyone with any car with pictures of it parked in grass, photo op or not i think the worst for the underbody, or lack of care by the owner lol. That car is.... well he didnt post any photos. For that price, he better have some damn good photos of everything. " Needs nothing" doesnt even have headliners in the car, piss off LOL

[MrChocky]

Anytime i see anyone with any car with pictures of it parked in grass, photo op or not i think the worst for the underbody, or lack of care by the owner lol. That car is.... well he didnt post any photos. For that price, he better have some damn good photos of everything. " Needs nothing" doesnt even have headliners in the car, piss off LOL

Well, let's compare with the cheapest fixed price I see right now (there is an auction ending shortly, present at 25K).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-DeLorean-DMC/223759333346?hash=item34191877e2:g:3dAAAOSwHt9d1Y7 H

So for 30K, you get what appears to be good condition on the outside, lots of wear and on the inside and various corrosion on the
underbody. Lots of photos. The replaced radio and engine pictures to me suggest at least some work has been done here. And
being a dealer, there's a good chance they have full records.

[Rich_NYS]

Well, let's compare with the cheapest fixed price I see right now (there is an auction ending shortly, present at 25K).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-DeLorean-DMC/223759333346?hash=item34191877e2:g:3dAAAOSwHt9d1Y7 H

So for 30K, you get what appears to be good condition on the outside, lots of wear and on the inside and various corrosion on the
underbody. Lots of photos. The replaced radio and engine pictures to me suggest at least some work has been done here. And
being a dealer, there's a good chance they have full records.

The auction ending in one day looks like a decent car, and the description states the frame is in excellent condition. Values do seem to be continuing an upward trend, I'm watching closely as I plan to put 4728 up for sale in 2020/2021.

[Michael]

Well, let's compare with the cheapest fixed price I see right now (there is an auction ending shortly, present at 25K).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-DeLorean-DMC/223759333346?hash=item34191877e2:g:3dAAAOSwHt9d1Y7 H

So for 30K, you get what appears to be good condition on the outside, lots of wear and on the inside and various corrosion on the
underbody. Lots of photos. The replaced radio and engine pictures to me suggest at least some work has been done here. And
being a dealer, there's a good chance they have full records.

LOL, That dealer is BHCC who is notorious for selling pieced together (sometimes not even that) heaps to unsuspecting dreamers. The radio tells me nothing, the original coolant tank speaks volumes. The car appears to have not been driven regularly in some time. That said this is the nicest car I have seen them sell but I can assure you that is no peach. That car will be full of surprises because there is one thing I know for sure; when it comes to DeLoreans, pics hide a lot. Almost any DeLorean looks good in pictures, it's when you get close (or know where to look) that things show their true colors. That car needs a LOT to be a nice car. If you are serious about owning a car, wait till a well known and loved car pops up here from a trusted member. The 25k rule is now the 35k rule, and most likely 40k+ for a primo example.

Figure on interior refresh, wheel refresh, new tires, about 2k minimum in the engine compartment, say another 2k(minimum) for unknowns like pads, rotors, coolant lines, etc. I could easily see you spending the better part of 10k just to make it reliable.

Do not plunk down 25 to 30k for a car like that when just a little more saves a lot of headache and regret.

[Riley88]

LOL, That dealer is BHCC who is notorious for selling pieced together (sometimes not even that) heaps to unsuspecting dreamers. The radio tells me nothing, the original coolant tank speaks volumes. The car appears to have not been driven regularly in some time. That said this is the nicest car I have seen them sell but I can assure you that is no peach. That car will be full of surprises because there is one thing I know for sure; when it comes to DeLoreans, pics hide a lot. Almost any DeLorean looks good in pictures, it's when you get close (or know where to look) that things show their true colors. That car needs a LOT to be a nice car. If you are serious about owning a car, wait till a well known and loved car pops up here from a trusted member. The 25k rule is now the 35k rule, and most likely 40k+ for a primo example.

Figure on interior refresh, wheel refresh, new tires, about 2k minimum in the engine compartment, say another 2k(minimum) for unknowns like pads, rotors, coolant lines, etc. I could easily see you spending the better part of 10k just to make it reliable.

Do not plunk down 25 to 30k for a car like that when just a little more saves a lot of headache and regret.
Cant agree more. There for awhile we had a BHCC themed thread actually, look if you can find it. They specialize is selling to people overseas who want project cars. Dont cheap out to save 10-15k because well. Like Michael said, you will pay double getting it where you want plus its not worth the risk. It hasn't ran in forever, what if it needs an engine rebuild etc? Ooof.

[Rich_NYS]

I just looked at some completed listings on eBay. There was recently a few cars go for 35K-40K, they were very nice, but not pristeen. I've seen non-running, rough projects go for close to 20K tis past year.

Makes me wonder: what's the current valuation of a very nice condition non-runner?

[Hill Valley PD]

Bring a Trailer (BAT) is a good indiction of the prices these things actually sell for. Unlike eBay, they are selective on what they allow to be listed on their site, so typically there are better examples found there. The average purchase price of the 15 DeLorean's SOLD on BAT since 2016 is $40,656 (not including the hovercraft). This is with 5% buyer's fee added that BAT charges, and I will include this fee in the below analysis. Range between cheapest and most expensive sold car was $21,262-$55,125.

Now if we break it down for cars sold within the last year (Dec. 2018 - Dec. 2019), there were 8 to include a black painted one, which had the lowest selling price at $33,338, while the highest sale price for a stainless example was $55,125. I'd consider the painted car an outlier since painted cars are always worth less than an equivalent stainless car. With that removed, the average SOLD price in the last year was $45,223. Even with the painted car included the average sold price was $43,808.

Now if we break it down to "bid to" prices but not sold, there were 9 cars with an average bid to price of $29,313. These cars tended to be lesser examples that people did not pull the trigger on with a few nice exceptions. Range for bid to prices was $16,800 - $47,250.

Now if we look at all 24 auctions (excluding hover craft) on BAT since 2016 to include sold and bid to pricing, the range is $16,800 - $55,125 with an average end of auction price of $36,402 for all sold and unsold cars. Bear in mind 20 of these cars were listed between 2018-2019 with only 4 listed between 2016-2017, so the trend is that they are coming up for sale more often.

Do you know what this means? It means that this damn thing doesn't work at all! :)

Seriously though, the above analysis shows that auction prices on BAT are on the rise but not skyrocketing and that more cars are being listed more often.

[MrChocky]

Seriously though, the above analysis shows that auction prices on BAT are on the rise but not skyrocketing and that more cars are being listed more often.

Excellent analysis. If my predictions are right about appreciation, let's generously say they go up 5% in 2020. Of course, it seems like you could easily spend that 5% in maintenance to maintain that value; so it's not really an "investment", but it's clear you could do a lot worse when getting a car.

Couple more:

https://classiccarswest.com/1981-delorean-dmc-12/

I actually know the owner of the dealership in passing; he told me it was sold in the late summer - unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to peek at it. I don't know why it's still listed. And one of those fateful $15k cars, posted here just yesterday:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17903-1981-Manual-Grey-Interior-5096

Well noted on the "cheaper cars". I've read and taken this truly onboard. What I'm trying to get at is what I'm seeing (or not seeing!) in such posts. I couldn't find the "BHCC thread", but did see a lot of commentary. Seems best avoided.

So I think my current goal is to bug Rich_NYS all year about 4728 ;-)

[Michael]

So I think my current goal is to bug Rich_NYS all year about 4728 ;-)

I said a trusted member!

Seriously, Rich's car (when he decides to put it up for sale) would be absolutely ideal for you as it has been properly converted to a carbed setup.

[dodint]

Bring A Trailer might be the worst indicator for market pricing for any marque. There is a social component to BaT, kind of like bidding on a televised Mecum auto auction, it's fun to overpay and one-up someone for internet points. Look how many cars on there get sold two, three, four times. It's a show.

There is a joke among car guys; the best way to make money with cars is to buy an old piece of crap 80s car, give it a respray and clean up the interior, then find two nostalgic morons on BaT with big checkbooks and you're printing money.

[Rich_NYS]

Bring a Trailer (BAT) is a good indiction of the prices these things actually sell for. Unlike eBay, they are selective on what they allow to be listed on their site, so typically there are better examples found there. The average purchase price of the 15 DeLorean's SOLD on BAT since 2016 is $40,656 (not including the hovercraft). This is with 5% buyer's fee added that BAT charges, and I will include this fee in the below analysis. Range between cheapest and most expensive sold car was $21,262-$55,125.

Now if we break it down for cars sold within the last year (Dec. 2018 - Dec. 2019), there were 8 to include a black painted one, which had the lowest selling price at $33,338, while the highest sale price for a stainless example was $55,125. I'd consider the painted car an outlier since painted cars are always worth less than an equivalent stainless car. With that removed, the average SOLD price in the last year was $45,223. Even with the painted car included the average sold price was $43,808.

Now if we break it down to "bid to" prices but not sold, there were 9 cars with an average bid to price of $29,313. These cars tended to be lesser examples that people did not pull the trigger on with a few nice exceptions. Range for bid to prices was $16,800 - $47,250.

Now if we look at all 24 auctions (excluding hover craft) on BAT since 2016 to include sold and bid to pricing, the range is $16,800 - $55,125 with an average end of auction price of $36,402 for all sold and unsold cars. Bear in mind 20 of these cars were listed between 2018-2019 with only 4 listed between 2016-2017, so the trend is that they are coming up for sale more often.

Do you know what this means? It means that this damn thing doesn't work at all! :)

Seriously though, the above analysis shows that auction prices on BAT are on the rise but not skyrocketing and that more cars are being listed more often.

Great post!




~snip~

So I think my current goal is to bug Rich_NYS all year about 4728 ;-)

Bug away, sir....it'll keep me motivated to get 4519 on the road!

Teaser pic; here's the most recent [albeit crappy] shot I have of the front frame area:

61950




I said a trusted member!

Seriously, Rich's car (when he decides to put it up for sale) would be absolutely ideal for you as it has been properly converted to a carbed setup.


:thumbup:

I'm planning to have a packaged Kjet setup as well, in case a potential buyer wants to convert back.

[Hill Valley PD]

Bring A Trailer might be the worst indicator for market pricing for any marque. There is a social component to BaT, kind of like bidding on a televised Mecum auto auction, it's fun to overpay and one-up someone for internet points. Look how many cars on there get sold two, three, four times. It's a show.

There is a joke among car guys; the best way to make money with cars is to buy an old piece of crap 80s car, give it a respray and clean up the interior, then find two nostalgic morons on BaT with big checkbooks and you're printing money.

I agree with this somewhat, but the same would go for any auction to include eBay, Mecum, Barrett Jackson etc. The point is DeLoreans have been on the rise the last few years in price, and some really nice examples went through BAT. Basically, it reinforces the that the old Rule of 25 is more like the Rule of 35-40 nowadays.

[Rich]

For those with lots of time on their hands here's a link to the The "BHCC Thread" (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12411) which to date features about 200 posts.

I think the consensus is as noted in bold in the post below:


...Well noted on the "cheaper cars". I've read and taken this truly onboard. What I'm trying to get at is what I'm seeing (or not seeing!) in such posts. I couldn't find the "BHCC thread", but did see a lot of commentary. Seems best avoided.

[dodint]

I agree with this somewhat, but the same would go for any auction to include eBay, Mecum, Barrett Jackson etc. The point is DeLoreans have been on the rise the last few years in price, and some really nice examples went through BAT. Basically, it reinforces the that the old Rule of 25 is more like the Rule of 35-40 nowadays.

BaT also has buyers fees of 5% of the auction value, up to $5,000. So if you're looking to see what the market will bear for the sale of a particular car you'll need to factor that in as well (final price + 5% to find equivalent private party price). That's not unique to BaT, but for eBay sales those fees are charged to the seller so they're not directly comparable.

BaT is just a weird and closed culture in and of itself and I don't think it's representative of how the real world works. But I know people that (and have not) listed on there so maybe I'm too close to it. I wouldn't discourage anyone from listing or buying on there; I just see it as a novelty.

[MrChocky]

I read through the BHCC thread - car from there is probably not for me.

Meanwhile, I found this search:

https://www.autotempest.com/results?make=delorean

Which combines many of the obvious sites. If you also click though all the CL links, then there's a lot of cars topping 40K.

[MrChocky]

I said a trusted member!

Seriously, Rich's car (when he decides to put it up for sale) would be absolutely ideal for you as it has been properly converted to a carbed setup.

Yeah, I just went through his restoration and driving threads. It's easily the nicest car to date I've seen. No doubt he's going to want a pretty penny for
it - and quite rightly! Just have to find a way to trick him or something (out loud voice).

[Michael]

Yeah, I just went through his restoration and driving threads. It's easily the nicest car to date I've seen. No doubt he's going to want a pretty penny for
it - and quite rightly! Just have to find a way to trick him or something (out loud voice).

Tell him you are Bill Robertson's cousin and you work for YouTube seeking talent to co star in "Cobra Kai".

[Hill Valley PD]

BaT also has buyers fees of 5% of the auction value, up to $5,000. So if you're looking to see what the market will bear for the sale of a particular car you'll need to factor that in as well (final price + 5% to find equivalent private party price). That's not unique to BaT, but for eBay sales those fees are charged to the seller so they're not directly comparable.

BaT is just a weird and closed culture in and of itself and I don't think it's representative of how the real world works. But I know people that (and have not) listed on there so maybe I'm too close to it. I wouldn't discourage anyone from listing or buying on there; I just see it as a novelty.

Yeah, it's a fun site to browse. I also factored in the 5% fees into my pricing analysis as stated in my post. We can crunch numbers all we want, but it all comes down for what someone is willing to pay. I agree to try to find a private party seller on here rather than a random dealer. The vendors can also be good sources for cars. I ended up getting mine through Mike at DMC Midwest. However, if you can find the seller before they co-sign with a vendor, you'll save yourself 10%. Happy hunting!

[Rich_NYS]

Here's a link Mr Chocky & I have been discussing. Follow the link at the bottom of the listing for several undercarriage pics and post your valuation opinions of the car.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-DeLorean-DeLorean-NO-RESERVE-AUCTION-LAST-HIGHEST-BIDDER-WINS-CAR/293380794760?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180816085401%26meid%3D45201 8b66c6b476fba7e4d0e5ba86772%26pid%3D100970%26rk%3D 2%26rkt%3D14%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D223796809977%26it m%3D293380794760%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D238005 7&_trksid=p2380057.c100970.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3A2cb8b18d-24ea-11ea-a23b-74dbd1803b62%7Cparentrq%3A2ee6d70416f0a4b77cc48a21 ff9d2080%7Ciid%3A1

[Hill Valley PD]

Midwest car all day. Lots of surface rust in random places. Seller mentioned the frame being restored/repainted. The rear engine cradle looks like it has a darker finish than the rest of it. The valve covers look corroded, and engine bay looks a bit ratty. I bet the frame was pretty bad on this one before the POR-15 and repairs or whatever they painted it with. The interior looks decent as does the body. The fascias were redone and too dark. There is evidence of the high stripe that's faded away or been removed if you look closely, which is indicative of car with some time spent outside. The "DMC" is all that remains of it. It's a driver quality car for sure and probably won't reach 30K. Bids are at $26,300 now.

[MrChocky]

Here's a link Mr Chocky & I have been discussing. Follow the link at the bottom of the listing for several undercarriage pics and post your valuation opinions of the car.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-DeLorean-DeLorean-NO-RESERVE-AUCTION-LAST-HIGHEST-BIDDER-WINS-CAR/293380794760?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.S EED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180816085401%26meid%3D45201 8b66c6b476fba7e4d0e5ba86772%26pid%3D100970%26rk%3D 2%26rkt%3D14%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D223796809977%26it m%3D293380794760%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D238005 7&_trksid=p2380057.c100970.m5481&_trkparms=pageci%3A2cb8b18d-24ea-11ea-a23b-74dbd1803b62%7Cparentrq%3A2ee6d70416f0a4b77cc48a21 ff9d2080%7Ciid%3A1

For all the faults of that car, it's the only one up for auction. I'm betting some last minute excitement by over-eager bidders. $29500.

Separately, I've been looking at all the cars available. There's something of a "glut", if that could be said in a low volume
market. Cars from $14K up to $52K, and about 15 cars available right now. I'm seeing a lot of relisting, which
suggest me it's the slow season, but I haven't been watching the market long enough to really judge this.

[Rich_NYS]

Midwest car all day. Lots of surface rust in random places. Seller mentioned the frame being restored/repainted. The rear engine cradle looks like it has a darker finish than the rest of it. The valve covers look corroded, and engine bay looks a bit ratty. I bet the frame was pretty bad on this one before the POR-15 and repairs or whatever they painted it with. The interior looks decent as does the body. The fascias were redone and too dark. There is evidence of the high stripe that's faded away or been removed if you look closely, which is indicative of car with some time spent outside. The "DMC" is all that remains of it. It's a driver quality car for sure and probably won't reach 30K. Bids are at $26,300 now.A bit different than my assessment...I'd say it's a Northeast car driven on salted roads. I have a lot of other observations I'll mention after others weigh in. I agree bidding won't [or, shouldn't] reach 30K.

[Jonathan]

A bit different than my assessment...I'd say it's a Northeast car driven on salted roads. I have a lot of other observations I'll mention after others weigh in. I agree bidding won't [or, shouldn't] reach 30K.

Yikes. That's a lot of work coming to whoever wins that auction. $30k? Wow. It'll be close to double that before everything on the car gets sorted out. Existing issues and probably some rework from poor attempts at fixing things by previous owners or shops.

I wonder how that driver's door alignment is without the front striker pin in place?
Oil leak? Sure, rear axles. Easy enough. They might have mentioned the coolant leaks too as they look to be in abundance. Hopefully that's the only reason the fuel tank closing plate looks like it's got more bolts missing than installed.
Some odd wiring in and around the ballast resistor. Same goes for the hose routing. Charcoal canister sitting out behind the A/C compressor for reasons unknown. Nice drip down drain hose hanging out the back just above the muffler.
Air filter duct is missing on one photo and back installed in another.

This car would be kinda fun to get sorted out. Just not fun paying for it.

[gluaisrothaii]

Yikes. That's a lot of work coming to whoever wins that auction. $30k? Wow. It'll be close to double that before everything on the car gets sorted out. Existing issues and probably some rework from poor attempts at fixing things by previous owners or shops.

I wonder how that driver's door alignment is without the front striker pin in place?
Oil leak? Sure, rear axles. Easy enough. They might have mentioned the coolant leaks too as they look to be in abundance. Hopefully that's the only reason the fuel tank closing plate looks like it's got more bolts missing than installed.
Some odd wiring in and around the ballast resistor. Same goes for the hose routing. Charcoal canister sitting out behind the A/C compressor for reasons unknown. Nice drip down drain hose hanging out the back just above the muffler.
Air filter duct is missing on one photo and back installed in another.

This car would be kinda fun to get sorted out. Just not fun paying for it.

I can tell you that the clean low-mile black car I bought from BAT for just under $32k needed about $8k of parts to make it safe to drive, and at least 100 hours of my time. Needs another $5k to make it enjoyable to drive. And it was completely original- nothing had been touched or modified, no significant corrosion. If it was unpainted it might have gone to $40k at auction.

[MrChocky]

For all the faults of that car, it's the only one up for auction. I'm betting some last minute excitement by over-eager bidders. $29500.


$28400, so not so far off. I think this particular auction was never really about what the car was worth. See the bit about not responding to
messages or texts - you had to call him, so you'd get the used car salesman bit. To that extent, the auction was how much he could
sell it for, rather than how much it's worth or needed to be done.

Hopefully the buyer knew what they were getting into.

[Rich_NYS]

Yikes. That's a lot of work coming to whoever wins that auction. $30k? Wow. It'll be close to double that before everything on the car gets sorted out. Existing issues and probably some rework from poor attempts at fixing things by previous owners or shops.

I wonder how that driver's door alignment is without the front striker pin in place?
Oil leak? Sure, rear axles. Easy enough. They might have mentioned the coolant leaks too as they look to be in abundance. Hopefully that's the only reason the fuel tank closing plate looks like it's got more bolts missing than installed.
Some odd wiring in and around the ballast resistor. Same goes for the hose routing. Charcoal canister sitting out behind the A/C compressor for reasons unknown. Nice drip down drain hose hanging out the back just above the muffler.
Air filter duct is missing on one photo and back installed in another.

This car would be kinda fun to get sorted out. Just not fun paying for it.


I'm with you Jonathan, and I see a very sloppy cover-up job here. I do give the seller credit for being forthcoming with so many pics, but it's easy to see where he spray-painted over rust, and there's a lot of rust. It looks to me like he sprayed the areas of the engine cradle with light gray first, then black.....maybe the light gray didn't cover the rust well enough? The replacement fuel tank closing plate (with some bolts missing, some not threaded in fully) makes me wonder about the extent of frame rust. My guess is that the OEM closing plate was completely rusted through. I predict we'll see the car again, needing a frame replacement in a few years.

I also noticed the seller has other cars on his Flickr page....he's obviously flipping cars. The car is from Massachusetts, that's where it lived on the salt-covered roads (IMO.)

The stainless looks really nice, and it does run well, so there's a positive.



$28400, so not so far off. I think this particular auction was never really about what the car was worth. See the bit about not responding to
messages or texts - you had to call him, so you'd get the used car salesman bit. To that extent, the auction was how much he could
sell it for, rather than how much it's worth or needed to be done.

Hopefully the buyer knew what they were getting into.

Good call on the selling price, and the listing overall.



This really has me asking; WTH has that nice 35K car [in the for sale section] not sold yet?? I'd take that car all day long for 6K more than this one.

[MrChocky]

With nothing better to do this morning, here's a full inventory of all the cars presently for sale, lowest to highest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223796809977 - 19.5 - BHCC special, frame and interior are a disaster.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/d/justin-1982-delorean-dmc-12/7036925409.html - 23 - TX - Frame replacement special

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223759333346 - 27.5 - Another BHCC special

https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/new-salisbury-1981-delorean-dmc-12/7032209272.html - 29 - IN

https://smd.craigslist.org/cto/d/la-plata-1982-delorean-for-sale/7034870663.html - 35 - Delaware - this is the one Rich just mentioned.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223688250256 - 36.5 - Red from BHCC

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274140070677 - 37.5 - Another SoCal

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/d/ormond-beach-1981-delorean-dmc/7036219259.html - 40 - Yet one more SoCal

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333373417909 - 40 - Maryland

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/cto/d/ormond-beach-1981-delorean-dmc/7036223686.html - 40 - FL

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/SCEDT26T3BD003935?sourceSiteId=10&partner=VSN_0 - 42 - Another Red, MI

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/790120033/overview/?aff=stemp2&CMP=stemp2 - 43 - NorCal - really close to me

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202857876071 - 47.5 - NY

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/SCEDT26T8BD006460?sourceSiteId=10&partner=VSN_0 - 54.9 - FL

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/792591201/overview/?aff=stemp2&CMP=stemp2 - 55 - PA


And finally, an auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114029759466 - 49,240 Buy it now, or auction at 37.8. WA. I've seen this one listed at least once before.

[Hill Valley PD]

Rich, yeah I'm from the Midwest, so it's just a reference that that car definitely saw some winter in its life whether here or east coast. Sounds like it was actually the latter. Soooo apparently fairly crappy cars now sell for near 30K...

[andyo]

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/d/mather-1981-delorean-for-sale/7037552023.html

One more i found on CL.

I’ve been following listings relatively closely for the last year or so, and my analysis of them is that if they are priced at or below actual market they don’t last long, and really sell almost instantaneously. The ones that hang around are priced high and/or have issues. The real ‘deals’ don’t show up as listings at all. Those are the ones where the buyer is in the right place at the right time, or knows the seller personally or through a connection. Sometimes those can surface on CL or elsewhere, but again sell very quickly and favor the people who are local and watching closely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rich_NYS]

Rich, yeah I'm from the Midwest, so it's just a reference that that car definitely saw some winter in its life whether here or east coast. Sounds like it was actually the latter. Soooo apparently fairly crappy cars now sell for near 30K...Yeah....that does appear to be the case (30K cars.) I'm especially surprised at that sale due to the availability of better cars, and it selling a week before Christmas.

I'm not planning to put mine on eBay when I sell it, but I'd be interested to see how it would go.

[Riley88]

With nothing better to do this morning, here's a full inventory of all the cars presently for sale, lowest to highest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223796809977 - 19.5 - BHCC special, frame and interior are a disaster.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/d/justin-1982-delorean-dmc-12/7036925409.html - 23 - TX - Frame replacement special

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223759333346 - 27.5 - Another BHCC special

https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/new-salisbury-1981-delorean-dmc-12/7032209272.html - 29 - IN

https://smd.craigslist.org/cto/d/la-plata-1982-delorean-for-sale/7034870663.html - 35 - Delaware - this is the one Rich just mentioned.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223688250256 - 36.5 - Red from BHCC

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274140070677 - 37.5 - Another SoCal

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/d/ormond-beach-1981-delorean-dmc/7036219259.html - 40 - Yet one more SoCal

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333373417909 - 40 - Maryland

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/cto/d/ormond-beach-1981-delorean-dmc/7036223686.html - 40 - FL

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/SCEDT26T3BD003935?sourceSiteId=10&partner=VSN_0 - 42 - Another Red, MI

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/790120033/overview/?aff=stemp2&CMP=stemp2 - 43 - NorCal - really close to me

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202857876071 - 47.5 - NY

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/SCEDT26T8BD006460?sourceSiteId=10&partner=VSN_0 - 54.9 - FL

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/792591201/overview/?aff=stemp2&CMP=stemp2 - 55 - PA


And finally, an auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114029759466 - 49,240 Buy it now, or auction at 37.8. WA. I've seen this one listed at least once before.

Typical BHCC, but damn the red one? Ill take that car phone please, dope as hell. If only the phone companies would still activate them. id totally put one in my car for fun

[Michael]

Typical BHCC, but damn the red one? Ill take that car phone please, dope as hell. If only the phone companies would still activate them. id totally put one in my car for fun

You can buy look a likes that are digital and work with your sim card.

[CFI]

Typical BHCC, but damn the red one? Ill take that car phone please, dope as hell. If only the phone companies would still activate them. id totally put one in my car for fun

That phone is pretty cool!

[MrChocky]

One more:

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az20/arizona/lots/r0141-1982-delorean-dmc-12/841843

BAE turbocharger. VIN 10905. No pictures of the underside, but the inside looks extremely tidy.

[Giamanut]

With nothing better to do this morning, here's a full inventory of all the cars presently for sale, lowest to highest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223796809977 - 19.5 - BHCC special, frame and interior are a disaster.

https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/d/justin-1982-delorean-dmc-12/7036925409.html - 23 - TX - Frame replacement special

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223759333346 - 27.5 - Another BHCC special

https://louisville.craigslist.org/cto/d/new-salisbury-1981-delorean-dmc-12/7032209272.html - 29 - IN

https://smd.craigslist.org/cto/d/la-plata-1982-delorean-for-sale/7034870663.html - 35 - Delaware - this is the one Rich just mentioned.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223688250256 - 36.5 - Red from BHCC

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274140070677 - 37.5 - Another SoCal

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/d/ormond-beach-1981-delorean-dmc/7036219259.html - 40 - Yet one more SoCal

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333373417909 - 40 - Maryland

https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/cto/d/ormond-beach-1981-delorean-dmc/7036223686.html - 40 - FL

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/SCEDT26T3BD003935?sourceSiteId=10&partner=VSN_0 - 42 - Another Red, MI

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/790120033/overview/?aff=stemp2&CMP=stemp2 - 43 - NorCal - really close to me

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202857876071 - 47.5 - NY

https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/SCEDT26T8BD006460?sourceSiteId=10&partner=VSN_0 - 54.9 - FL

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/792591201/overview/?aff=stemp2&CMP=stemp2 - 55 - PA


And finally, an auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114029759466 - 49,240 Buy it now, or auction at 37.8. WA. I've seen this one listed at least once before.

The one at the bottom is mine I took it down for a bit because the passenger door got hit by a runaway shopping cart. Just put a brand new door on it from DMC. That's why you have seen it before. I won't put in a shameless plug about it but ....

[Rich_NYS]

The one at the bottom is mine I took it down for a bit because the passenger door got hit by a runaway shopping cart. Just put a brand new door on it from DMC. That's why you have seen it before. I won't put in a shameless plug about it but ....Must've been a helluva shopping cart!

https://gfycat.com/admiredscrawnyharvestmouse

[MrChocky]

Must've been a helluva shopping cart!

https://gfycat.com/admiredscrawnyharvestmouse

No; those are very small people.

Happened to my car years ago. Enormous parking lot on a hillside, almost empty. Someone let a cart go from the top into my door. I
give shit to people who leave loose carts in parking lots. So lazy.

[CFI]

The one at the bottom is mine I took it down for a bit because the passenger door got hit by a runaway shopping cart. Just put a brand new door on it from DMC. That's why you have seen it before. I won't put in a shameless plug about it but ....

Would you mind sharing what DMC charged for shipping?

[Mark D]

Must've been a helluva shopping cart!
https://gfycat.com/admiredscrawnyharvestmouse



No; those are very small people.

Yes, definitely very small people. I am only 23" tall, here is a photo of me standing next to a normal sized shopping cart.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=62153&d=1577455265

[Rich_NYS]

No; those are very small people.

Happened to my car years ago. Enormous parking lot on a hillside, almost empty. Someone let a cart go from the top into my door. I
give shit to people who leave loose carts in parking lots. So lazy.

Johnny Knoxville (in the cart) is ~6 feet tall.

[Michael]

Stay away from East TN.

http://gsirm.tripod.com/bristol/FC_buggy.jpg

[Mark D]

Johnny Knoxville (in the cart) is ~6 feet tall.

That photo I posted is actually me with (what i believe to be) the screen used shopping cart from Jackass: The Movie. I'm 5' 10" so you can get an idea of how freakin huge it is.

This was back in 2010 on the back lot at Universal Studios near the prop warehouse.... The cart was a prop that was available for rent and looked like it had been fixed up a few times. I'm not sure if the bent frame and extra reinforcements were welded on to repair damage from filming Jackass or from some other production. The original pneumatic tires were swapped out for hard rubber casters but everything else about the construction seems to match up with the screen used cart.

In the GIF you posted they had installed a large plexiglass riser to make it easier for the guys to fly out at the end, you can see it in this shot:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=62154&d=1577462388

[Rich_NYS]

That photo I posted is actually me with (what i believe to be) the screen used shopping cart from Jackass: The Movie. I'm 5' 10" so you can get an idea of how freakin huge it is.

This was back in 2010 on the back lot at Universal Studios near the prop warehouse.... The cart was a was a prop that was available for rent and looked like it had been fixed up a few times. I'm not sure if the bent frame and extra reinforcements were welded on to repair damage from filming Jackass or from some other production. The original pneumatic tires were swapped out for hard rubber casters but everything else about the construction seems to match up with the screen used cart.

In the GIF you posted they had installed a large plexiglass riser to make it easier for the guys to fly out at the end, you can see it in this shot:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=62154&d=1577462388Those guys returned something still intact???

[Mark D]

Those guys returned something still intact???

Yeah no kidding! At least partially intact anyway. The movie was distributed by Paramount so how it ended up at the Universal prop house kind of a mystery. It's possible Universal Studio Services metal shop actually built the thing.

[MrChocky]

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/lisle-delorean/7051058106.html

Maybe some museum has 68K to spend on a D, I don't know. Seems like an awfully big premium to pay.

[dodint]

What is a 'documented mile'?

[Michael]

What is a 'documented mile'?

It's the same as an "actual mile"...maybe a little longer.

[DMC-81]

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/lisle-delorean/7051058106.html

Maybe some museum has 68K to spend on a D, I don't know. Seems like an awfully big premium to pay.

Neat ad. I can tell you that at 905 it is not the lowest mile DeLorean in existence. I have seen 17 mile and 300 mile cars in the local area. Still, it IS low mileage. The buyer would probably want to keep it that way.

I have been lucky enough to drive for Mecum Auction Kissimmee again. I drove a 590 mile 1983 Pontiac Firebird last weekend. It was a time capsule - essentially brand new. I was transported back to that year when I shuttled the car around the auction stages. It still sported the original Eagle NCT tires. Similarly, the buyer of that car would want to keep it as is. I think the largest value is in maintaining the time capsule.

[Rich_NYS]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-DeLorean-DMC-12-/293419308803

[dodint]

I don't understand that one at all.

[Michael]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-DeLorean-DMC-12-/293419308803

Now that's what I like to see. 10 years ago that would have been lucky to see 20k, and realistically mid to high teens.

[MrChocky]

Now that's what I like to see. 10 years ago that would have been lucky to see 20k, and realistically mid to high teens.

I just saw two cars in the last couple of weeks on Facebook. One at 30K, another at 40K. Both sold within minutes. Go figure.

Meanwhile, I've seen a lot of ebay listings where the priced has been lowered a couple of times.

[Hill Valley PD]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1983-DeLorean-DMC-12-/293419308803

A "sold" auction on eBay doesn't mean the car actually sold at all. Maybe this one's seller placed phantom bids or a drunk guy at 3am won it and then backed out. Unfortunately, happens a lot on that site. I really don't see how this really sold for that much.

[Michael]

A "sold" auction on eBay doesn't mean the car actually sold at all. Maybe this one's seller placed phantom bids or a drunk guy at 3am won it and then backed out. Unfortunately, happens a lot on that site. I really don't see how this really sold for that much.

It wasn't just one bid. Has a history of healthy bids which doesn't mean I disagree with you but it's still encouraging nonetheless.

62376

[crbritt83]

Unfortunately for the purchaser (assuming it went through), that car is going to require a lot of work above the 34k price paid.

[Mark D]

It's encouraging to see sales prices continue to rise. I check Hagerty every once in a while to see what the "official" valuations are, if you can call them that. Here's the latest for Jan 2020:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=62377&d=1579289493

[Riley88]

Neat ad. I can tell you that at 905 it is not the lowest mile DeLorean in existence. I have seen 17 mile and 300 mile cars in the local area. Still, it IS low mileage. The buyer would probably want to keep it that way.

I have been lucky enough to drive for Mecum Auction Kissimmee again. I drove a 590 mile 1983 Pontiac Firebird last weekend. It was a time capsule - essentially brand new. I was transported back to that year when I shuttled the car around the auction stages. It still sported the original Eagle NCT tires. Similarly, the buyer of that car would want to keep it as is. I think the largest value is in maintaining the time capsule.

I have seen lower than 17 miles, believe it was 9, but its in a very private collection. Nov 81 build. Wasnt allowed to take photos though of anything

[DMC-81]

I have seen lower than 17 miles, believe it was 9, but its in a very private collection. Nov 81 build. Wasnt allowed to take photos though of anything

Wow, very cool. Isn't it awesome to see such a time capsule?

[JETS 81 DMC]

BAT price chart from 2016 - 2020 (25 results shown)

https://bringatrailer.com/delorean/

[Riley88]

Wow, very cool. Isn't it awesome to see such a time capsule? The day i saw that delorean was the best car day of my life and it wont ever be topped. This guy had a bigger collection of cars than leno. Was pretty nuts, just to bad i couldnt take photos

[Rich_NYS]

I'm interested to know the sale price of this one:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?p=253998

[Michael]

I'm interested to know the sale price of this one:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?p=253998

That car could have been so much more with a little more effort. The frame was nice but for the price of a few cans of brake cleaner and degreaser, a bag of rags and an afternoon it could have looked so much better and worthy of top tier asking price. I'm guessing just north of 30k but with a little more elbow grease along with it's history, it could have been a 45k+ machine.

[Hill Valley PD]

That thing started at 44K and dropped to under 38K. I'd guess a deal was struck in the 36K range, which was really good IMO.

[MrChocky]

That car could have been so much more with a little more effort. The frame was nice but for the price of a few cans of brake cleaner and degreaser, a bag of rags and an afternoon it could have looked so much better and worthy of top tier asking price. I'm guessing just north of 30k but with a little more elbow grease along with its history, it could have been a 45k+ machine.

Have you ever done a detailing FAQ? I don't see too much with a search.

[dodint]

Looks like he just did.

Materials:
Brake Cleaner
Degreaser
Rags

Time: Afternoon

Procedure: Apply materials to frame for stated time.

[Rich_NYS]

That car could have been so much more with a little more effort. The frame was nice but for the price of a few cans of brake cleaner and degreaser, a bag of rags and an afternoon it could have looked so much better and worthy of top tier asking price. I'm guessing just north of 30k but with a little more elbow grease along with it's history, it could have been a 45k+ machine.+1

It looks to me to be a really nice example with a perfect frame.

The condition, mileage, and specs of the car are nearly identical to the one I just bought, but with a nicer frame.

[Delorean Industries]

That car could have been so much more with a little more effort. The frame was nice but for the price of a few cans of brake cleaner and degreaser, a bag of rags and an afternoon it could have looked so much better and worthy of top tier asking price. I'm guessing just north of 30k but with a little more elbow grease along with it's history, it could have been a 45k+ machine.

That sounds like a lot of work. I prefer our approach. Drop the mild steel chassis and scrap it. Install a stainless chassis and then take pictures.

[Riley88]

That sounds like a lot of work. I prefer our approach. Drop the mild steel chassis and scrap it. Install a stainless chassis and then take pictures.

just gimme that spec 2 twin turbo then we can talk, thanks

[dodint]

I had a buyer (prior owner of the car) pay a $15k premium for a car with a SS frame over repurchasing the car from me. So it has other benefits as well. ;)

[MrChocky]

I'm interested to know the sale price of this one:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?p=253998

Apparently relisted:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-DeLorean-DMC-12/114078994922#viTabs_0

[Rich_NYS]

Apparently relisted:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-DeLorean-DMC-12/114078994922#viTabs_0

I think it's a really nice car that is somehow being overlooked. I'm going to ask the guy to weigh in on what's going on with it....

[MrChocky]

I think it's a really nice car that is somehow being overlooked. I'm going to ask the guy to weigh in on what's going on with it....

Did you find anything out?

And you saw this of course:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17770-New-Owner-Check-this-out

He bought in September for a flip, although looks like he's done a huge amount of genuine work on it. It's not the shiniest car out there, but seems like he's
addressed the critical issues and more. Perhaps he got a bad run of tire kickers.

[Rich_NYS]

Did you find anything out?

And you saw this of course:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17770-New-Owner-Check-this-out

He bought in September for a flip, although looks like he's done a huge amount of genuine work on it. It's not the shiniest car out there, but seems like he's
addressed the critical issues and more. Perhaps he got a bad run of tire kickers.I didn't get a response.

I see it's listed on Craigslist, some saying it's overpriced but I continue to see it as a very nice example. I think he's right when he said it looks like the car was never driven in the rain.

Sometimes the market is weird; a few weeks ago someone paid over 30K for a car half as nice as this one.

[Michael]

I didn't get a response.

I see it's listed on Craigslist, some saying it's overpriced but I continue to see it as a very nice example. I think he's right when he said it looks like the car was never driven in the rain.

Sometimes the market is weird; a few weeks ago someone paid over 30K for a car half as nice as this one.

Guy seems like he did a fair amount of work to that car and it seems (at least in his posts) that he is a pretty competent mechanic as well. I think he probably did a lot more to that car than some dealer would have had they got it to sell. Heck if I were in the market, I would be all over that car.

[Rich_NYS]

Guy seems like he did a fair amount of work to that car and it seems (at least in his posts) that he is a pretty competent mechanic as well. I think he probably did a lot more to that car than some dealer would have had they got it to sell. Heck if I were in the market, I would be all over that car.

^Exactly what I'm thinking, on all points.

[MrChocky]

^Exactly what I'm thinking, on all points.

Meanwhile, at the extreme ends of the pricing scale:

https://www.copart.com/lot/61406119?fbclid=IwAR0g-KKkQfqujk1SxS6VgrqRgJ2jhghSqvMHPebo4yRw7AJvky44E55 9vxg

Auction, presently at $6600. Pretty sure that's not going to be improved by brake cleaner.

And a Time Machine:

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1981/delorean/dmc_12/101107422

They could have at least vacuumed the inside! I've never seen one for sale, but am I right in
thinking they'll be asking north of 80K?

[Rich]

You can't make this stuff up.

Unlike most DeLoreans, even the Time Machines, this one's a hatchback? Wow.


VIN: SCEDT26T0BD001740
Classic Car ID: 101107422
Category: American Classics
Body Style: Hatchback
New/Used: Used
Mileage: 59,537 miles

Nice find, MrChocky.

Happy bidding, everybody.




And a Time Machine:

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1981/delorean/dmc_12/101107422

[MrChocky]

You can't make this stuff up.
Nice find, MrChocky.
.

Thanks. But wait, there's more!

On the auction, the VIN is **** out, but then we helpfully get a picture of it - 4179. And unless someone's been
messing with VINs, is this car:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?11798-Two-tone-DMC-for-sale-at-BHHC-at-16k&highlight=4179 (page 2)
https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1982-dmc-delorean--c-4179.htm

Which means the car had a sordid history even before it got beat up. I guess we should be glad
that the left fender seems intact.

But back to the earlier point, 35Kish cars in the condition of the WA car are likely what I'll be chasing later this year.

[Riley88]

Meanwhile, at the extreme ends of the pricing scale:

https://www.copart.com/lot/61406119?fbclid=IwAR0g-KKkQfqujk1SxS6VgrqRgJ2jhghSqvMHPebo4yRw7AJvky44E55 9vxg

Auction, presently at $6600. Pretty sure that's not going to be improved by brake cleaner.

And a Time Machine:

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1981/delorean/dmc_12/101107422

They could have at least vacuumed the inside! I've never seen one for sale, but am I right in
thinking they'll be asking north of 80K?
The answer is obvious, buy it, park it in the garage. keep the garage open but dont let anyone see the front end. Insta famous!

[Rich_NYS]

Was anyone watching this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-DeLorean-DMC-12-/254483643488?nma=true&si=NnZQpuzZeAhfc%252FsTi672O4WoUgc%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


The buyer did well. I saw this one listed but I didn't notice [in the wording] that it appears to be a DMCH rebuild.

[Michael]

Was anyone watching this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1981-DeLorean-DMC-12-/254483643488?nma=true&si=NnZQpuzZeAhfc%252FsTi672O4WoUgc%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


The buyer did well. I saw this one listed but I didn't notice [in the wording] that it appears to be a DMCH rebuild.

I can't believe that's a refurb not even 10 years old. The seller does not deserve that car anyway.

[MrChocky]

I can't believe that's a refurb not even 10 years old. The seller does not deserve that car anyway.Next up:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F33 3489185870



Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[MrChocky]

More auctions, for those who like such things:

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/fl20/palm-beach/lots/r0076-1983-delorean-dmc-12/846285 (17011)

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/es20/essen/lots/r1097-1981-delorean-dmc-12/856759 (3131)

[Rich]

Hagerty recently released their Sept. 2021 collector car valuations.

Less than 2 years since Mark D's valuation posting (inserted below this latest graph) a Condition #2 '81 DMC-12's value has increased over 30%, from $45.5K to $60.8K.

Condition #3-4 car values increased at least 25% over that time, now showing at $40.4K and $26.2K, respectively.

And most Ds have doubled in value since 2015 regardless of condition.

Make of it what you will.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=67121&d=1630954989


It's encouraging to see sales prices continue to rise. I check Hagerty every once in a while to see what the "official" valuations are, if you can call them that. Here's the latest for Jan 2020:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=62377&d=1579289493

[Michael]

67123

[painterdave72]

good news for us owners... but where are the 5k cars that everyone says they can buy?? lmao

[SamHill]

Perspective!

The values of D's have been in a ditch for a long time now. As oft-repeated, the transition from most first gen owners happened about 20 years ago and the cars subsequently changed hands frequently, which served to depress values. Now that there's an international age group that desires the car, we can expect some appreciation, especially given a thriving export market. What appears to be a big jump is really just long overdue. It's far from crazy -- for now.

[JRNY13]

This car has been criminally undervalued. It's rare, unique, has movie-star cache and is generally the most photographed car at cruise night.

[Mark D]

The latest numbers from Hagerty are up:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=67765&d=1641307611

[MrChocky]

The latest numbers from Hagerty are up:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=67765&d=1641307611

Sigh. Accurate as far as it goes, but my opinion is that this is trying to shoehorn DeLoreans into their model - we can't overly fault that, they are after all an insurance company, and
have to use something for underwriting. But still, how many Concours cars did you see for sale in 2021? I saw maybe 2 that might qualify (out of 100 or so publicly listed, and maybe
200 total US sales). I do imagine there's a lot out there in collections though. The strong preference in recent years of course is to modernized cars with updates, which are decidedly
(and wisely non-stock).

As for the "fair" cars, I wonder how they came to this value. Certainly there are many private transactions on very rough cars that are less than this, but who knows. The cheapest
car I know of right now at BHCC is a non-runner at $35K.

Then of course we have Time Machines ($180K and $!50K for recent sales) and other outliers like the Kia stinger car.

I think it's also worth pointing out that these are sale prices; they aren't necessarily replacement costs - and in reference to a recent thread, what you'd need to pay to replace
a given car.

[Michael]

This REALLY makes me want to sell my car and get into a used Lamborghini Gallardo, or just upgrade my Cybertruck to the tri motor version!

DeLoreans really are better than gold!!

67766

[Timeless]

This REALLY makes me want to sell my car and get into a used Lamborghini Gallardo, or just upgrade my Cybertruck to the tri motor version!

DeLoreans really are better than gold!!

67766
That 200K+ Kia-swap car certainly didn't hurt the market. I would buy car at the right price. (auto?)

[Helirich]

Sigh. Accurate as far as it goes, but my opinion is that this is trying to shoehorn DeLoreans into their model - we can't overly fault that, they are after all an insurance company, and
have to use something for underwriting. But still, how many Concours cars did you see for sale in 2021? I saw maybe 2 that might qualify (out of 100 or so publicly listed, and maybe
200 total US sales). I do imagine there's a lot out there in collections though. The strong preference in recent years of course is to modernized cars with updates, which are decidedly
(and wisely non-stock).

As for the "fair" cars, I wonder how they came to this value. Certainly there are many private transactions on very rough cars that are less than this, but who knows. The cheapest
car I know of right now at BHCC is a non-runner at $35K.

Then of course we have Time Machines ($180K and $!50K for recent sales) and other outliers like the Kia stinger car.

I think it's also worth pointing out that these are sale prices; they aren't necessarily replacement costs - and in reference to a recent thread, what you'd need to pay to replace
a given car.

I think there are very few Concours cars. When you say there are a lot in collections, I suggest they don’t run. We all know if a Delorean sits for a couple years, it probably doesn’t run. I don’t believe you can call it concours unless it runs.

I think I would call my car “good”, but when I compare it to cars for sale, I have to believe it would sell for 50K.

[Riley88]

67123
haha! Its nice to see values go up-. DOnt care wont ever sell mine but it is nice

[JBaker4981]

Just my .02 cents but the more expensive these cars get, the closer we come to parts becoming more expensive.

I truly hope these cars never reach six figures as I do not think anyone wants to pay Porsche or Ferrari level prices for parts but this is absolutely just the worst case scenario.

[MrChocky]

Just my .02 cents but the more expensive these cars get, the closer we come to parts becoming more expensive.

I truly hope these cars never reach six figures as I do not think anyone wants to pay Porsche or Ferrari level prices for parts but this is absolutely just the worst case scenario.

Well, the question of parts prices is interesting - apart from the some of the obviously rare pieces, parts pricing seems to me to have stayed pretty consistent, which means
the dynamic between the price of parts vs a whole car has changed a lot. And this affects the relative merits of doing a restoration, etc.

But I don't think we're going to see the price of driver cars reaching $100K any time soon. People predicting this are getting a bit too excited, and it's not reflected in the
history of classic car pricing - big price increases are always very short term. There's 2 cars up for auction at Mecum today; it'll be interesting to see how those shake out.

[Helirich]

But I don't think we're going to see the price of driver cars reaching $100K any time soon.

I’ve been waiting for Lamborghini Contach drivers to come on the market.

[JBaker4981]

parts pricing seems to me to have stayed pretty consistent, which means the dynamic between the price of parts vs a whole car has changed a lot.

Key word there.... parts pricing seems to have stayed consistent... for now :(

[SonnyV]

Key word there.... parts pricing seems to have stayed consistent... for now :(

You don't expect the folks in Houston to increase prices, do you? Parts prices have been very reasonable for a low-production car and they don't need much work; only the occasional light refurbishing.

[Helirich]

Key word there.... parts pricing seems to have stayed consistent... for now :(

Some parts will probably alway be reasonable. For example, engine parts and some suspension parts. This is because they are common to other cars or easily manufactured. (Think lower control arms) But I could see body parts and glass becoming very expensive in the future.

[Timeless]

But I could see body parts and glass becoming very expensive in the future.
I believe Houston is working on a long-term production solution for body panels.

[MrChocky]

You don't expect the folks in Houston to increase prices, do you? Parts prices have been very reasonable for a low-production car and they don't need much work; only the occasional light refurbishing.

Well, I wouldn't want to second guess that. Ultimately that's a business decision, but there are several factors in play here. One is that we are very lucky to have multiple vendors for parts as well as very active used parts market. And
there seem to be quite a number of efforts to reproduce/improve certain parts. But also I can see, at least right now, there's a lot of shortages, and stuff I'd expect vendors to have is OOS. And I can see other NOS items
are running out (at least in one example I can name).

The short answer is, I don't know. But if prices rise too much, people will find/make alternatives. 3D printing is part of that.

[louielouie2000]

Just my .02 cents but the more expensive these cars get, the closer we come to parts becoming more expensive.

I truly hope these cars never reach six figures as I do not think anyone wants to pay Porsche or Ferrari level prices for parts but this is absolutely just the worst case scenario.

Rising values are such a double-edged sword. Folks who have had their cars for a while will finally have some positive equity in them (back in the day you'd never be able to sell your car for what you had in it- ask me how I know). It's also refreshing that the cars are finally get the last laugh among the haters, too; they're red hot collectables right now. Rising prices also likely means more cars are coming out of long term storage; cars that would not have been deemed worthy of restoration just a few years ago are now being brought back into the land of the living.

The downside is rising prices for everything; cars, parts, insurance, etc. Increased risk just taking your car out to enjoy it.


Well, the question of parts prices is interesting - apart from the some of the obviously rare pieces, parts pricing seems to me to have stayed pretty consistent, which means
the dynamic between the price of parts vs a whole car has changed a lot. And this affects the relative merits of doing a restoration, etc.

But I don't think we're going to see the price of driver cars reaching $100K any time soon. People predicting this are getting a bit too excited, and it's not reflected in the
history of classic car pricing - big price increases are always very short term. There's 2 cars up for auction at Mecum today; it'll be interesting to see how those shake out.

I've been in the DeLorean community over 20 years. Parts prices have absolutely increased. Some of that is simply inflation over a two decade period. Some of it is due stock piles of some parts depleting or becoming NLA; some of it can be attributed to tooling costs for reproduction parts. That being said, DeLorean parts are still child's play compared to other high-end European makes of era. Ask me how terrifying it was to maintain a 90s era Mercedes SL.

The DMC franchises are getting $70-100k for their nicer "pre-owned" cars right now... and DPI is apparently getting up to three times that for their "build" cars. So the era of six-figure DeLorean sales is indeed upon us. That being said, private sellers and non-DeLorean dealers aren't getting a slice of that action yet. Most of those sales seem to be in the $45-55k range.

[SonnyV]

I believe Houston is working on a long-term production solution for body panels.

Is there really a demand for that, though? The panels don't wear out and most can be repaired after a minor accident. Short of one totaling the car, when are replacements really needed?

[MrChocky]

The DMC franchises are getting $70-100k for their nicer "pre-owned" cars right now... and DPI is apparently getting up to three times that for their "build" cars. So the era of six-figure DeLorean sales is indeed upon us. That being said, private sellers and non-DeLorean dealers aren't getting a slice of that action yet. Most of those sales seem to be in the $45-55k range.

There's only a couple of private sales right now. This is a very recent development (since summer, really) , and if it lasts, it will change the dynamic again. Most of the cars right now haven been snapped by the dealers - notably BHCC, DPI and DMC franchises.

[MrChocky]

Is there really a demand for that, though? The panels don't wear out and most can be repaired after a minor accident. Short of one totaling the car, when are replacements really needed?

Well, I don't believe the demand is non-existent. There's no question that making new ones would be "expensive" and demand is small. But for example, the panels on my project are heavily pitted. I think they can be repaired, but at some point
panels become too far gone. Any there's always someone looking to replace hoods or t-panels.

[SonnyV]

Well, I don't believe the demand is non-existent. There's no question that making new ones would be "expensive" and demand is small. But for example, the panels on my project are heavily pitted. I think they can be repaired, but at some point
panels become too far gone. Any there's always someone looking to replace hoods or t-panels.

There's a difference between non-existent and not worthwhile. The number of people who would buy a DeLorean for $10k is a lot greater than the number that would buy them for $100k, but they cannot be manufactured for $10k and will cost closer to $100k when remade. Panels are a part of that remanufacturing. They would have to be remade for a cost that's less than the cost of refurbishing a damaged one. The supply of most panels at the DMC facility will not be depleted for some time and there are still parts cars to provide donors.

The DeLorean is in a unique position where rust doesn't destroy the panels, keeping the demand low. How many would have to be bought to break even on the cost of making new ones? 10? 100? 1,000? If it's 1,000 that's about 10% of the total manufactured DeLoreans. On all non-wear parts, demand is capped at 10k units and it's unlikely it would exceed 5k units.

100 left front fenders at $1k would require an investment cost of $100k; if you sell them for $2.5k, you have to sell 40 to break even (excluding shipping and personnel costs) and that is going to take years to decades. It's just not a smart business decision.

[Timeless]

Is there really a demand for that, though? The panels don't wear out and most can be repaired after a minor accident. Short of one totaling the car, when are replacements really needed?
They're planning a decent amount of new builds plus the ~6000 cars already in the wild. Demand is not shrinking and with accidents and other issues it's peace of mind knowing body panel supply is not severely limited.
Even if the body dies were able to be rescued, so many years under water have attacked them to the point of no return.

[SonnyV]

...a decent amount of new builds plus the ~6000 cars already in the wild...

What do you consider a decent supply? The Low Volume Production Provision allows for 325/year. That gives a legal cap. Even so, how many buyers do you think there would be at $100k?

Where do you come up with 6k remaining? That number gets thrown around a lot, but it's a napkin sketch with no numbers to back it up. It's doubtful that there are 1k left on the roads.

[MrChocky]

What do you consider a decent supply? The Low Volume Production Provision allows for 325/year. That gives a legal cap. Even so, how many buyers do you think there would be at $100k?

Where do you come up with 6k remaining? That number gets thrown around a lot, but it's a napkin sketch with no numbers to back it up. It's doubtful that there are 1k left on the roads.

Well, with respect, your 1K is a guess as well.

I have actually done some recent research on that, that I published to Fanatics some months ago. However, based upon worst case attrition rates and sales rates (and I'll admit, a fair few
assumptions), there are at least 4500 cars on the road, and perhaps as many as the alleged 6500.

I believe the new car pricing will be closer to $150K. YMMV.

[SonnyV]

Well, with respect, your 1K is a guess as well.

I have actually done some recent research on that, that I published to Fanatics some months ago. However, based upon worst case attrition rates and sales rates (and I'll admit, a fair few
assumptions), there are at least 4500 cars on the road, and perhaps as many as the alleged 6500.

I believe the new car pricing will be closer to $150K. YMMV.

My 1k estimate comes from the DMC vendors based on individual sales and from people who manufacture parts; have you been following the sales of AT filters, for example? That's a great representation of the number of automatic cars that are on the road. There is no way that there are 4,500 cars running around. There may be 4,500 left, but my 1k estimate is a more accurate representation of cars in use.

[MrChocky]

There's a difference between non-existent and not worthwhile. The number of people who would buy a DeLorean for $10k is a lot greater than the number that would buy them for $100k, but they cannot be manufactured for $10k and will cost closer to $100k when remade. Panels are a part of that remanufacturing. They would have to be remade for a cost that's less than the cost of refurbishing a damaged one. The supply of most panels at the DMC facility will not be depleted for some time and there are still parts cars to provide donors.

The DeLorean is in a unique position where rust doesn't destroy the panels, keeping the demand low. How many would have to be bought to break even on the cost of making new ones? 10? 100? 1,000? If it's 1,000 that's about 10% of the total manufactured DeLoreans. On all non-wear parts, demand is capped at 10k units and it's unlikely it would exceed 5k units.

100 left front fenders at $1k would require an investment cost of $100k; if you sell them for $2.5k, you have to sell 40 to break even (excluding shipping and personnel costs) and that is going to take years to decades. It's just not a smart business decision.

Yes, no question. I'm not arguing the biz aspect, or really anything at all you said - although as I mentioned earlier, i think the cars will be close to $150K. All I'm trying to point out is different facets.

It may be that the rate of attrition of cars is enough to keep up with demand. There's another thing here too - there's an awful lot of people sitting on caches of parts. Enough to be significant to the brisk parts business the vendors are doing? Probably not, (and many of the parts
end up there anyway), but they're out there.

[MrChocky]

My 1k estimate comes from the DMC vendors based on individual sales and from people who manufacture parts; have you been following the sales of AT filters, for example? That's a great representation of the number of automatic cars that are on the road. There is no way that there are 4,500 cars running around. There may be 4,500 left, but my 1k estimate is a more accurate representation of cars in use.

My problem with these assertions (in the general case), is that they are just that - assertions. If you have some actual numbers, that's refreshing.

Now, there's no question my analysis would benefit from someone who's an actual mathematician (and not just one on paper, like me), and that
I made a number of assumptions as well as side-stepping the matter of running or not. Still, I did use some actual numbers, only slightly
made up.

The short short short version is thus - if we start with 9080 cars and work to 6500 cars in 2000 or so we get a 1.75% yearly attrition rate, and
going to 2021, about 4500. If you want to argue that, then by all means do.

The problem I'm having with an estimate of 1000 is two fold - first, I'm told there are 300-400 cars in the UK and about as many more
elsewhere outside the US. So it doesn't quite stack up there.

Second, a value of 1000 would imply an attrition rate since 2000 of a staggering 8.5% (the 1.75% is on par as industry average) and would
also be a strange jump in attrition since 2000.

Now, you are not the first to suggest monitoring the rate of consumables, and the ATF value (what it is) is interesting, but I don't think
by itself it is enough. But I would in any case, welcome an analysis based upon such values.

[louielouie2000]

There's only a couple of private sales right now. This is a very recent development (since summer, really) , and if it lasts, it will change the dynamic again. Most of the cars right now haven been snapped by the dealers - notably BHCC, DPI and DMC franchises.

While I totally agree that dealers and the vendors largely have the current market cornered on car sales, that isn't the complete picture. Plenty of cars still change hands privately. Some are in "off market" or word of mouth transactions. Cars on Craigslist etc that aren't scams are scooped up in a matter of hours usually, due to the fact they are typically priced substantially below dealers/vendors. And of course there are auctions... be it the "old school" car auctions like Mecum etc or online ones such as eBay and Bring a Trailer. In any event, dealer/vendor sales carry an extremely hefty premium compared to what private sellers are fetching.


Yes, no question. I'm not arguing the biz aspect, or really anything at all you said - although as I mentioned earlier, i think the cars will be close to $150K. All I'm trying to point out is different facets.

It may be that the rate of attrition of cars is enough to keep up with demand. There's another thing here too - there's an awful lot of people sitting on caches of parts. Enough to be significant to the brisk parts business the vendors are doing? Probably not, (and many of the parts end up there anyway), but they're out there.

I've seen a video with Stephen Wynne from the past year or so where he states the new builds will be in the vicinity of $150k, so your hunch is substantiated. I still don't see how they can overcome the obstacles of producing "new" vehicles given the amount of NLA parts and the costs to reproduce those (most of which have zero to do with the drivetrain); but alas, I'm beyond over this chicken & egg scenario.

And yes, there are plenty of folks hoarding parts. Off the top of my head I can think of multiple owners who have multiple left front fenders. Even recent videos of DMCH show LFFs in the background. The demand for some parts is somewhat a self-fulfilling prophecy. But yes, in the grand scheme of things, the stashes individuals have probably wouldn't realistically shift supply & demand in a net positive way regardless.

[MrChocky]

While I totally agree that dealers and the vendors largely have the current market cornered on car sales, that isn't the complete picture. Plenty of cars still change hands privately. Some are in "off market" or word of mouth transactions. Cars on Craigslist etc that aren't scams are scooped up in a matter of hours usually, due to the fact they are typically priced substantially below dealers/vendors. And of course there are auctions... be it the "old school" car auctions like Mecum etc or online ones such as eBay and Bring a Trailer. In any event, dealer/vendor sales carry an extremely hefty premium compared to what private sellers are fetching.


Yes, certainly. My research (and records of public sales), suggest that there's 100 public sales (all the ones you see advertised, dealer or not) and 100 private sales (many dealer and other word of mouth in the US per year). These numbers have been confirmed by DMC reps. I think the total number worldwide is about 250/year. Of course it's difficult to know the exact details of the private sales, so we must infer.




I've seen a video with Stephen Wynne from the past year or so where he states the new builds will be in the vicinity of $150k, so your hunch is substantiated. I still don't see how they can overcome the obstacles of producing "new" vehicles given the amount of NLA parts and the costs to reproduce those (most of which have zero to do with the drivetrain); but alas, I'm beyond over this chicken & egg scenario.


Ah, thank goodness. This is the same video I saw that I haven't been able to find, and I got shouted down on reddit for even suggesting this was the case. Of course, that was a year ago, so all bets are off now.

[Helirich]

The short short short version is thus - if we start with 9080 cars and work to 6500 cars in 2000 or so we get a 1.75% yearly attrition rate, and going to 2021, about 4500.

Where did the 6500 number in 2000 come from? Not saying your wrong, just courious. Wonder if there is a “standard attrition rate” for cars? Of course, sports cars might be different from pickup trucks or economy cars. Also do they get destroyed fast in the early years and slow down later? I guess in some states you can search a data base and see how many are registered. If they have plates, they probably run.

[CFI]

Where did the 6500 number in 2000 come from? Not saying your wrong, just courious. Wonder if there is a “standard attrition rate” for cars? Of course, sports cars might be different from pickup trucks or economy cars. Also do they get destroyed fast in the early years and slow down later? I guess in some states you can search a data base and see how many are registered. If they have plates, they probably run.

6500 was a guess. I think it was first published in a DeLorean magazine sometime in the 90’s.

[MrChocky]

Back on topic, 3 recent Mecum sales. Posted prices include the buyer fees, and so prices tend to be higher than
what you'd expect to pay elsewhere, as well as attracting a non-typical DeLorean buyer crowd:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0122-485609/1982-delorean-dmc-12/ - $57,200.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0122-487023/1981-delorean-dmc-12/ - $79,200.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0122-486986/1981-delorean-dmc-12/ - $92,200.

One of these cars came with a rat's nest feature.

[Michael]

Estimates on the 1,100 mile car are about as wrong as Anthony Hopkins in a mini skirt.

[SonnyV]

Suddenly the $42k eBay basket case seems believable.

[Mark D]

April 2022 values are now posted on Hagerty's valuation tool. They changed the format, and now you have to have a paid membership to see back more than 1 year. Used to be that you could see back 5 years with the free membership.

https://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=68336&d=1649100361

[louielouie2000]

Here's the 5 year version. I hovered over 2017 since there is no scale/legend:

https://i.ibb.co/Bg2JyMf/deloreanvalues.jpg (https://ibb.co/8jgwrZm)

[Rich]

Thanks.
Hagerty's new graphs lost their y-axis gridlines and tickmarks making them pretty hard to read unless you do the hovering trick, as mentioned. On the plus side they added a detailed graph showing over 200 past sales prices for DMC-12s.

For this graph their 5-yr appreciation figures for an '81 DMC-12 are roughly:
Condition 1: up 125%
Condition 2: up 100%
Condition 3: up 70%
Condition 4: up 55%


Here's the 5 year version. I hovered over 2017 since there is no scale/legend:

https://i.ibb.co/Bg2JyMf/deloreanvalues.jpg (https://ibb.co/8jgwrZm)

[WHO1DMC]

One on BAT just went for 33K. Not running and has been sitting for 20 years and it was bought as a project car before that.



So who knows when or if the DeLorean bubble might pop. If one's like this are going for that price!


I know some of you are already aware of this.
Dave B

[MrChocky]

One on BAT just went for 33K. Not running and has been sitting for 20 years and it was bought as a project car before that.



So who knows when or if the DeLorean bubble might pop. If one's like this are going for that price!


I know some of you are already aware of this.
Dave B

I don't think there's really a bubble. Prices - at least for sorted cars - have come down this year, but it's been a slow decline. They may come down
some more. On the other hand, there's been a bunch of a non-running and particularly rough cars popping up for higher and higher prices, with
the added baggage of off-their-rocker sellers.

[Helirich]

On the other hand, there's been a bunch of a non-running and particularly rough cars popping up for higher and higher prices, with
the added baggage of off-their-rocker sellers.

I think a Delorean is an attractive car for modification. Either four wheel drive, EV or more power. If you want to do that right from the start, you hate to start with a good car. So even though the “rough” cars are overpriced, they are still less than a good car you are going to major modify.

I’ve often thought to swap engines, but it’s hard to do when it runs good now. Also, since I found out the general perception that stock cars are “sooo slow” is false, I don’t have as much incentive.

[Rich]

Updating the Hagerty valuation since this April, 2022 report.

The news is: No news.

Hagerty's July '22 and Oct. '22 valuations for each of 4 car condition grades are the same as each one was in April '22.

So image 4 horizontal lines extending to the right for 6 more months past the last points (which are for April '22) on the graph below.

It might be for a lack of (tracked) volume. They tracked just 5 sales since March, one of which was a $170K Time Machine they left out of their calcs.


April 2022 values are now posted on Hagerty's valuation tool. They changed the format, and now you have to have a paid membership to see back more than 1 year. Used to be that you could see back 5 years with the free membership.

https://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=68336&d=1649100361

[David T]

This trend is very similar for all classic cars and collectables in general. While prices for the top condition cars has climbed to very high levels, it encourages owners of cars of lesser condition cars to assume their car is worth more than their car's condition warrants. Everyone wants to "cash in" on the current opportunity. Especially when you watch the TV auctions and ask yourself how do they get those prices? I had to recently increase the "Agreed Value" on my insurance to keep up with the current prices. I encourage everyone to review their own insurance too. Ask yourself what it would cost to replace your car with another in your car's current condition but be honest.

[Mark D]

Hagerty's latest Jan 2023 valuation numbers are in. No change since April 2022

https://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=69357&d=1673983480

[Helirich]

That?s interesting. It all sounds about right except the ?fair? condition. That value is more likely a ?not running? condition.

[Dickey]

That?s interesting. It all sounds about right except the ?fair? condition. That value is more likely a ?not running? condition.

Arguably this isn't much of a sampling but 30k doesn't seem overly far off:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304678403147


I will concede that these recent price trends have me considering putting my normal one up for sale. I like having it just to see it in my shop when I drive out to that part of the world but this is getting to a price point where my eccentricity could be focused on other things.

[MrChocky]

Arguably this isn't much of a sampling but 30k doesn't seem overly far off:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304678403147


I will concede that these recent price trends have me considering putting my normal one up for sale. I like having it just to see it in my shop when I drive out to that part of the world but this is getting to a price point where my eccentricity could be focused on other things.

That car was particularly bad, I'm not sure it would have even rated on this scale, and probably it didn't sell for that. I think the Hagerty thing is a bit of a shoehorn for DeLoreans since
they vary so much - but from a broad view, the prices seem to be pretty accurate. Remember their game is insurance - it's a statistics game; they just have to be "close enough"

[WHO1DMC]

Delorean been sitting since 1984 went for 44,600.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175584490160?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=T09hTjwcQ0y&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=5dtl1tmeRXO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY



Dave B.

[AugustneverEnds]

Delorean been sitting since 1984 went for 44,600.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175584490160?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=T09hTjwcQ0y&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=5dtl1tmeRXO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY



Dave B.

Damn still has Renault drive belts.

I really need to up my insurance coverage.

[Mark D]

Delorean been sitting since 1984 went for 44,600.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175584490160?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=T09hTjwcQ0y&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=5dtl1tmeRXO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Dave B.

With how the market has slowed down, I wonder if 44,600 was a good buy or not.

It's going to need a ton of money invested to make it a reliable car again, but cosmetically there is a good car under all that dirt and grime.

[Dickey]

Delorean been sitting since 1984 went for 44,600.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175584490160?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=T09hTjwcQ0y&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=5dtl1tmeRXO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY



Dave B.


Wow, I'd have sold mine for less than that and it runs. I'm genuinely puzzled how these cars have managed to appreciate as much as they have in recent years.

[Sulley]

Wow, I'd have sold mine for less than that and it runs. I'm genuinely puzzled how these cars have managed to appreciate as much as they have in recent years.

I think this can be said of a lot of cars...look at Broncos, Wagoneers, 1980 Mercedes SL, etc. I don't get it either.

[Timeless]

Wow, I'd have sold mine for less than that and it runs. I'm genuinely puzzled how these cars have managed to appreciate as much as they have in recent years.
Supply and demand. DeLorean is special for the obvious reasons and now that some are at an age where they can acquire a dream car - $ move upwards. That plus a new generation of enthusiasts and vendors providing extensive support to keep them on the road. With the engine options, stainless frames, etc... that makes someone like me excited for my car but also give me the drive to own a second one.

In 2000-2005, 1970 cudas were selling at B.J. and other places for $200K+. Look at the values today. I predict many muscle cars from a certain era will drop drastically over the next decade as the new generation interest in those vehicles is not there. They want Teslas and the latest automotive tech.

[Helirich]

I think this can be said of a lot of cars...look at Broncos, Wagoneers, 1980 Mercedes SL, etc. I don't get it either.

A lot of it is inflation. Print trillions of dollars and the value of them goes down.

[Sulley]

Supply and demand. DeLorean is special for the obvious reasons and now that some are at an age where they can acquire a dream car - $ move upwards. That plus a new generation of enthusiasts and vendors providing extensive support to keep them on the road. With the engine options, stainless frames, etc... that makes someone like me excited for my car but also give me the drive to own a second one.

In 2000-2005, 1970 cudas were selling at B.J. and other places for $200K+. Look at the values today. I predict many muscle cars from a certain era will drop drastically over the next decade as the new generation interest in those vehicles is not there. They want Teslas and the latest automotive tech.

I agree with this comment. When a generation has disposable income and want to acquire a dream car they will create demand on cars from their generation. After that generation starts to age out and sell their cars the demand goes down and the prices. However, some cars will transcend generational interests and always be considered collectable. Will the Delorean be one of these cars? TBD...

[andyo]

I agree with this comment. When a generation has disposable income and want to acquire a dream car they will create demand on cars from their generation. After that generation starts to age out and sell their cars the demand goes down and the prices. However, some cars will transcend generational interests and always be considered collectable. Will the Delorean be one of these cars? TBD...

I expected most new owners to be in their late thirties or in their forties, but there are several i know of that are in their early 20s... Not the majority for sure, but i think it shows that this car and its attraction has the potential to transcend as you say.

[Mark D]

I expected most new owners to be in their late thirties or in their forties, but there are several i know of that are in their early 20s... Not the majority for sure, but i think it shows that this car and its attraction has the potential to transcend as you say.

I bought mine when I was 24 years old, but that was 15 years ago when average prices were in the mid-teens to twenties. Not sure if I would have bought one back then if the prices were equivalent to what they are today.

On a related note, this one sold for 72k
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1982-delorean-dmc-12-27/


And this was was listed a couple days ago, and is already at 40k. Looks like a really nice one that will bring the money.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1981-delorean-dmc-12-100/

[bitMuse]

I expected most new owners to be in their late thirties or in their forties, but there are several i know of that are in their early 20s... Not the majority for sure, but i think it shows that this car and its attraction has the potential to transcend as you say.

I'm in my early thirties, I think.. I looked at this thread and I realize I'm the customer and not the dealer. I was sold the dream, and I'm cool with that. I have no delusions of selling this car, and I'm not sure I would want to.

Still fascinating/fun to talk about the price. I have no predictions on which way it will go, but as far as supply/demand, I think there are at least two facts that are true:

The car's appearance is timeless.
The stock is limited and only going down.

Just look at synthwave revival / vaporwave and 80s nostalgia. People are nostalgic for an era they didn't even live in.

[Timeless]

The car's appearance is timeless. The stock is limited and only going down.

Just look at synthwave revival / vaporwave and 80s nostalgia. People are nostalgic for an era they didn't even live in.
Timeless happens to be my license plate. I love synthwave and listen to it everyday. I love the 80's. (I was born in 78 )

[MrChocky]

The stock is limited and only going down.

Maybe. There has been an apparent huge acceleration in restoration of cars, especially very poor quality cars which would have just gone to parts in previous years. Now, that's really difficult to quantify vs the
normal attrition rate of the cars (which appears to be pretty typical), so might not mean that much in the end.

The other factor here is that sooner or later, someone is gonna figure out how to make "new" (old) cars, via whatever means from a mix of spares/new parts etc. Now, likely the numbers involved
here will be small, and may make that much difference, and certainly the price on such a car will be significantly more than a typical 40+ year old car now, so you could even make
the argument that this would put prices up even higher.

YMMV.

[Timeless]

The other factor here is that sooner or later, someone is gonna figure out how to make "new" (old) cars, via whatever means from a mix of spares/new parts etc.
Isn't that what DPI is doing? Didn't Houston have some type of new body tub design?

[bitMuse]

That's fair. To the average consumer the different between original and reproduction might not even matter much, or they may even prefer the reproduction, given the original wasn't all that great (performance-wise) to begin with.

Kit cars will also always have an appeal too.

However just like everything, the valuation for something is only dependent on who you're selling it to. Some collectors might only want the original 1980s-era stock and that stock is finite and going down, was my point. Unless you have a real time machine.

[Rich]

Here are the updated quarterly valuations from Hagerty. Click thumbnail.
Graph shows 5yr history with appreciation % over that period.
This quarter the only category that didn't move was Cond. 1 (Concours) cars.
The other 3 conditions moved up 8-10% in just this quarter after flatlining the 3 previous quarters.

69586

[Helirich]

Here are the updated quarterly valuations from Hagerty. Click thumbnail.
Graph shows 5yr history with appreciation % over that period.
This quarter the only category that didn't move was Cond. 1 (Concours) cars.
The other 3 conditions moved up 8-10% in just this quarter after flatlining the 3 previous quarters.

69586

Where do you buy ?fair? ones for 30 grand?

[Dickey]

In my shop this past weekend would have done it.


...I've calmed down since but I'm still annoyed that this season's wake up routine included a new exhaust leak.

[WHO1DMC]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325646650508?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=8GBVY9oMS8u&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=5dtl1tmeRXO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Well someone got an awesome deal. Hope the seller isn't under water with this one. $42,226 boy what a deal!
I hope this isn't a trend!



Dave B.

[cdrusn]

This is the latest valuaction guide and general overview of founding of Delorean Motor Cars by John Z. Delorean. Seems likely and valuations are about what
Bring a Trailer has been selling them for. https://www.hagerty.com/media/market-trends/deloreans-dmc-12-blazed-an-88-mph-path-to-collector-status/?utm_source=SFMC&utm_medium=email&utm_content=MED_UN_NA_EML_UN_WeekendRoadTrip&hashed_email=93aba10521d5147743b5c439928c3ae62efae 499716634e787339d24432720d0

[Rich]

Nice article. Thanks.

Mods:
Merge this post/thread with this existing thread (https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17604-Valuation-DeLorean-is-quot-one-of-the-hottest-collector-cars-quot&highlight=hagerty+valuation) about Hagerty DMC-12 valuations?

[Rich]

Hagerty's DMC-12 valuation update for July '23 is out. Click thumbnail.

Graph shows updated 5yr history with appreciation % over that period.
Little recent movement for Cond. 1 and 2 cars
Cars in Condition 3 and 4 continue the bumpup that started for them after Jan.'23
In the past 5yrs Ds in any of the 4 conditions are up 65-75%

New info not seen in graph: Hagerty now shows their data come from 310 tracked sales of the 3 model years starting in 1992. 42 of those tracked sales were in the past year.

As usual, owners with declared-value insurance policies may want to adjust their coverage/valuation from time to time.

69884

[Michael]

Mine has an agreed value of $85k. I'm comfortable with that number but I know any car I buy will be at least a year long journey to make it as good as mine is now.

[Timeless]

Mine has an agreed value of $85k. I'm comfortable with that number but I know any car I buy will be at least a year long journey to make it as good as mine is now.
At least a year + way more than 85K to get a car as clean/perfect as yours. New builds start around 100K.

[Mark D]

Nice to see the condition #3 and #4 cars continue to rise even though the #1 and #2 values have stayed relatively flat.

I should probably reevaluate my insurance coverage. I've got regular state farm full coverage on it, and who knows what they'd value it at. Stated value is probably the best way to go at this point.

[Rich]

...I should probably reevaluate my insurance coverage. I've got regular state farm full coverage on it, and who knows what they'd value it at. Stated value is probably the best way to go at this point.

Yes, check your current situation and adjust if you need to.

One decent thread about DeLorean insurance is over here (https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10553).

[Michael]

At least a year + way more than 85K to get a car as clean/perfect as yours. New builds start around 100K.

I like you

[Mark D]

The latest Hagerty valuation numbers are up. No change across the board from the last update in July.

https://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=70124&d=1698852629

[Rich]

Hagerty introduces another classic car valuation index, their RADindex. Text pasted here from the announcement in Hagerty's daily online feed (https://insider.hagerty.com/trends/introducing-the-radindex/?hashed_email=5d4dd022bf6e1012eeb8149d56666984db71 42e2e7e5654ce2e69c6d0feba200&dtm_em=5d4dd022bf6e1012eeb8149d56666984db7142e2e7e 5654ce2e69c6d0feba200):


The RADindex, which averages the condition #2 (?excellent?) Hagerty Price Guide value of 21 of the most popular and desirable vehicles built from 1980-99, currently sits at just less than $73,000. The index has increased by 70 percent over the past five years, which outperforms all of Hagerty?s other collector car indexes (https://insider.hagerty.com/trends/hagerty-price-guide-indexes-reaffirm-a-slowing-market/). For comparison, the second strongest growth during this timeframe comes from the Affordable Classics Index, which has increased in value by 53 percent since 2018. It also beats the S&P 500, which is up 48 percent over the same five-year period.


Here's their breakout with the indexed cars listed in model year order. It shows the '81 DMC-12 beating the index with an 8% increase in valuation over the past 12 months vs a 3% average increase for the entire RADindex.

70164

[Rich]

Hagerty's DMC-12 valuation for January '23 is out. It gets a nice bump since October. The January report includes the recent Mecum Kissimmee FL auction with all 6 of the offered DMC-12s selling through.

1yr increases for Cond. 1 and 2 cars are 10% and 20%, respectively. Cond. 3 and 4 cars up 25% in a year.

Graph below - click the thumbnail - shows updated 5yr valuation history with ~80% appreciation listed over that period for all 4 conditions.

70266

Hagerty now includes some info about their database. They've tracked over 360 sales of all 3 DMC-12 model years since 1991. 75% of these were '81s.

[Rich]

Hagerty's latest DeLorean valuation figures were recently released.

There's literally nothing new to report this time.

The April, 2024 valuation for each one of the 4 car conditions is unchanged from each one of the January, 2024 valuations seen in the chart in Post #189 of this thread.

[Rich]

Hagerty's latest DeLorean valuations:

Last quarter the values had flattened vs the previous for all DeLorean car condition categories. The latest update shows a year-over-year drop in value with the latest quarter giving up all of the gains in the since July '23 and then some. Condition 1 and 2 cars dropped about 1% year-over-year while Condition #3-4 cars dropped about 5% since then. The biggest portion of that drop was in the April-July quarter.

For context while the % value loss in April-July is the steepest loss in many years it's worth noting value of our cars is still up by 60-75% over the past 5 years depending on condition.

The graph shows the values for an '81 5-speed over the past year for all 4 Conditions. Click the thumbnail below to view.

70799