Oil light on, no oil pressure, car stopped

[eugenepeabody]

Hello all,

Thanks for reading this post. I have been a lurker for years and thank you all for great information.

It has been amazing to own this car and I love driving it and seeing all the joy it brings to others.

The car has been reliable and I have had no issues prior to today. Today while out for a drive suddenly the car stopped while I was at a red light, the warning oil light came on and the oil pressure fell to zero. I did not attempt to drive it after that aside from cranking it a couple times initially while stopped. The temperature of the engine stayed appropriate the whole time. I had it towed to my house. The oil level is fine and an oil change was done about 1000 miles ago using Castrol 20w-50.

Any idea what I should be looking for or where I should start?

Thank you

[Parzival]

Wait, This is very important! Answer me this first.
1) The oil light came on WHEN the car died?
2) Or the oil light came on AND THEN the car died?

[eugenepeabody]

The oil light came on when the car died.

The oil light has never been on before and was not on at the start of the drive. It came on when the car died. It's possible it came on a little before the car died and I didn't notice while driving. Every time I drive the car I look at the gauges to see my temp and oil pressure and at the start of the drive everything was normal.

[Parzival]

The oil light came on when the car died.

The oil light has never been on before and was not on at the start of the drive. It came on when the car died. It's possible it came on a little before the car died and I didn't notice while driving. Every time I drive the car I look at the gauges to see my temp and oil pressure and at the start of the drive everything was normal.

Ok good! That is a relief!
The oil light is aways on when the key is in the on position but the engine is off. You will not have oil pressure with an engine that is off. You probably just never noticed this before.
Your problem is not oil related, Check connections at the bulkhead resisters and all other connections coil etc etc. Make sure your fuel pump is running.
All the basic checks, jumper the RPM relay and check 12v to the fuel pump and all that.
This is likely electrical. Check your fuse box too.

[Ron]

+1

Barring major leaks, if the light and gauge show no oil pressure while it is running now, I'd guess you've lost a pump/chain since the two operate independently.

[Parzival]

Barring major leaks, if the light and gauge show no oil pressure while it is running now, I'd guess you've lost a pump/chain since the two operate independently.

He hasn't had it running since it died it sounds like. He had it die, noticed that the oil light was on (This is normal) and was freak out so he got a toe home.
I don't think he has an oil issue. Just got freaked out that the light came on when the car died is all.

[Ron]

Hope so!
Good choice -- Lots better than, "...I thought I could drive it just up the road!"


...I was typing between posts...(The title and description got me too ;-)

[Parzival]

Hope so!

...I was typing between posts...(The title and description got me too ;-)

I know right! the title of this thread is SCARY!
but I think he's fine, go out there find out why its not starting, and when its running I bet his oil pressure is fine!
However, if it starts running and for some reason the oil pressure is still zero, we have a problem!

[jackb]

I’d like to piggyback a question about the oil pressure warning light...

It is activated by ground? As in, in order to test the bulb/circuit, if I turn the key to on, then disconnect the wire from the sender on the drivers side of the engine and touch it to a ground, the bulb should illuminate, correct?

Currently my warning light does not illuminate with the engine off/key on. The wire to the sender had been disconnected (burned short) as long as I’ve owned the car, and I just repaired it last week. No illumination.

I’ll be removing my binnacle to change it in a week or so (and replacing the circuitboard at the same time) so I will verify the LED connection/function at that time.

[Ron]

You got it right.

Just in case, usually you can't use a LED for the battery light. Just use a new OEM style one of the same rate since you are in there...


======

EDIT: Eugene, did you mean crank over or crank up??

[eugenepeabody]

Thank you for the replies!

I feel much better now and definitely freaked when I thought it was a low oil issue.

I will start troubleshooting per the recommendations in this thread.

[Ron]

Treat it like a No Start problem and narrow it down to fuel or ignition first -- Put a phillips screwdriver in one of the easy plug wires and see if it jumps spark to ground (e.g engine block) when someone tries to start it, or, spray some starting fluid/carb cleaner under the air metering plate and try it.

[opethmike]

Treat it like a No Start problem and narrow it down to fuel or ignition first -- Put a phillips screwdriver in one of the easy plug wires and see if it jumps spark to ground (e.g block) when someone tries to start it, or, spray some starting fluid/carb cleaner under the air metering plate and try it.

I usually touch the plug wire to my tongue.

[Parzival]

I usually touch the plug wire to my tongue.

Perhaps a video tutorial is in order? I'd like to see exactly how you perform the test before attempting it myself.

[David T]

The wire to the sending unit for the oil light gets burnt up and once the insulation is burnt off the wire can contact ground and illuminate the warning light. Remove the other sending unit by the oil filter and hook up a mechanical pressure gauge to check oil pressure once you get the motor started. My guess is the oil pressure gauge wasn't working but you didn't notice that till the warning light lit up. I am betting you have oil pressure once you figure out why the motor won't start. Rare for a PRV to lose oil pressure and have a crankcase full of oil.

[Ron]

I usually touch the plug wire to my tongue.But...but, you can't see the spark if unless you make it jump...

[Parzival]

But...but, you can't see the spark if unless you make it jump...

But you can feel it!

[Ron]

But you can feel it!Really??
I'll have to wait for the vid before I believe that...

[eugenepeabody]

I had to work Saturday so I didn't get a chance to look at the car again until last night. I turned the key and the engine turned right over and all my gauges were reading appropriately.

And now that I think about it twice in the past the car was hard to start and both times it had been sitting out in the sun for a couple hours. It was 100+F on my drive yesterday too. Is the heat causing this? With this added information, where would you start troubleshooting?

Thank you

[kings1527]

I had to work Saturday so I didn't get a chance to look at the car again until last night. I turned the key and the engine turned right over and all my gauges were reading appropriately.

And now that I think about it twice in the past the car was hard to start and both times it had been sitting out in the sun for a couple hours. It was 100+F on my drive yesterday too. Is the heat causing this? With this added information, where would you start troubleshooting?

Thank you

A sudden engine cutout as you referenced in your first post versus more of a hot start problem as described in your most recent post are two different things. When you're talking about the car being hard to start after sitting out in the sun, did you drive the car beforehand and it was difficult to start after sitting (a true hot start problem) or was it just sitting out in the sun after not being run for 12+ hours and difficult to start at that point? (cold start problem).

If you're driving the car and it suddenly cuts out, you could be looking at an impulse coil issue (which typically will resolve after cooling down) or a fuel pump problem, as well. Which fuel pump are you running? I had a early version of the DMCH integrated unit and the pump would cut out and kill the engine after I had been driving in hot conditions for an hour or so.

When the car cuts out, does it sputter first and then stop (more fuel related) or does it cut out instantly (possibly more electrical related)?

I think the easiest way to tackle this is to wait until it happens again and then do a plug swap in the engine compartment: take the gray plug off of the warm up regulator, disconnect the blue connector from the cold start valve, and plug the gray plug from the WUR into the CSV. Try starting it then and if it starts (but runs rough...normal for this test), that'll let you know you're looking at a fuel delivery problem. If it doesn't start, then you're looking at electrical.

If it doesn't start when you do the plug swap, look at the tach when you're cranking. If the tach doesn't bounce, then you could be looking at a bad ECU.

Try the plug swap when the problem replicates and figure out if it's fuel or electrical and then let's start there. Way too many possibilities at this point. Bad coil, ballast resistor connections, etc. Too much time to spend testing random stuff without knowing fuel or electrical first.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I had to work Saturday so I didn't get a chance to look at the car again until last night. I turned the key and the engine turned right over and all my gauges were reading appropriately.

And now that I think about it twice in the past the car was hard to start and both times it had been sitting out in the sun for a couple hours. It was 100+F on my drive yesterday too. Is the heat causing this? With this added information, where would you start troubleshooting?

Thank you

I think the thermal time switch cuts out around 95 deg. F so if your engine needs the cold start valve, that would not work with an ambient temp of 100 deg. F.

[kings1527]

I think the thermal time switch cuts out around 95 deg. F so if your engine needs the cold start valve, that would not work with an ambient temp of 100 deg. F.

The TTS detects coolant temp rather than ambient so even in 100 degree ambient, I’d anticipate the cold start system to work unless the car had been recently run.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The TTS detects coolant temp rather than ambient so even in 100 degree ambient, I’d anticipate the cold start system to work unless the car had been recently run.

The engine and coolant would get to ambient. If the engine was run at 100 deg ambient it would never cool down until ambient went below the cutoff temp of the TTS.

[kings1527]

The engine and coolant would get to ambient. If the engine was run at 100 deg ambient it would never cool down until ambient went below the cutoff temp of the TTS.

I’m not sure if the coolant temp is always going to balance out to ambient while sitting. I think the block, hoses, expansion chamber, etc would provide insulation to a degree.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I’m not sure if the coolant temp is always going to balance out to ambient while sitting. I think the block, hoses, expansion chamber, etc would provide insulation to a degree.

The engine block should quickly (a few hours) get to ambient. So the TTS would follow the that also since the coolant in the block is not moving.

[Ron]

A sudden engine cutout as you referenced in your first post versus more of a hot start problem as described in your most recent post are two different things. When you're talking about the car being hard to start after sitting out in the sun, did you drive the car beforehand and it was difficult to start after sitting (a true hot start problem) or was it just sitting out in the sun after not being run for 12+ hours and difficult to start at that point? (cold start problem).

If you're driving the car and it suddenly cuts out, you could be looking at an impulse coil issue (which typically will resolve after cooling down) or a fuel pump problem, as well. Which fuel pump are you running? I had a early version of the DMCH integrated unit and the pump would cut out and kill the engine after I had been driving in hot conditions for an hour or so.

When the car cuts out, does it sputter first and then stop (more fuel related) or does it cut out instantly (possibly more electrical related)?

I think the easiest way to tackle this is to wait until it happens again and then do a plug swap in the engine compartment: take the gray plug off of the warm up regulator, disconnect the blue connector from the cold start valve, and plug the gray plug from the WUR into the CSV. Try starting it then and if it starts (but runs rough...normal for this test), that'll let you know you're looking at a fuel delivery problem. If it doesn't start, then you're looking at electrical.

If it doesn't start when you do the plug swap, look at the tach when you're cranking. If the tach doesn't bounce, then you could be looking at a bad ECU.

Try the plug swap when the problem replicates and figure out if it's fuel or electrical and then let's start there. Way too many possibilities at this point. Bad coil, ballast resistor connections, etc. Too much time to spend testing random stuff without knowing fuel or electrical first.
+1 on all this! Especially waiting to see what happens.

Meanwhile, I would add clean the connections at the resistor and order the RPM Relay upgrade (as mentioned, it's connections could have caused the problem, but not worth wondering about, imho).

===

$.02 on No-Start/Temp/TTS:

At 60°F ambient you get ~50% vaporization, so at "100+F", I doubt you'd have a no start at normal cranking speeds. Might take a few extra turns, but she should fire up...

[eugenepeabody]

Thank you.

I did the WUR plug into the CSV plug and it won't start that way either. I checked connections at the ballast resistor and they look good. I double checked my fuses and inertia siwtch and they look good too.

I tried the RPM relay jump, but only had a paper clip handy and I'm not sure it did it well. The car didn't start that way either, but the "low fuel" light would come on. The car is not low on fuel.



A sudden engine cutout as you referenced in your first post versus more of a hot start problem as described in your most recent post are two different things. When you're talking about the car being hard to start after sitting out in the sun, did you drive the car beforehand and it was difficult to start after sitting (a true hot start problem) or was it just sitting out in the sun after not being run for 12+ hours and difficult to start at that point? (cold start problem).

If you're driving the car and it suddenly cuts out, you could be looking at an impulse coil issue (which typically will resolve after cooling down) or a fuel pump problem, as well. Which fuel pump are you running? I had a early version of the DMCH integrated unit and the pump would cut out and kill the engine after I had been driving in hot conditions for an hour or so.

When the car cuts out, does it sputter first and then stop (more fuel related) or does it cut out instantly (possibly more electrical related)?

I think the easiest way to tackle this is to wait until it happens again and then do a plug swap in the engine compartment: take the gray plug off of the warm up regulator, disconnect the blue connector from the cold start valve, and plug the gray plug from the WUR into the CSV. Try starting it then and if it starts (but runs rough...normal for this test), that'll let you know you're looking at a fuel delivery problem. If it doesn't start, then you're looking at electrical.

If it doesn't start when you do the plug swap, look at the tach when you're cranking. If the tach doesn't bounce, then you could be looking at a bad ECU.

Try the plug swap when the problem replicates and figure out if it's fuel or electrical and then let's start there. Way too many possibilities at this point. Bad coil, ballast resistor connections, etc. Too much time to spend testing random stuff without knowing fuel or electrical first.

[Jonathan]

Thank you.

I did the WUR plug into the CSV plug and it won't start that way either. I checked connections at the ballast resistor and they look good. I double checked my fuses and inertia siwtch and they look good too.

I tried the RPM relay jump, but only had a paper clip handy and I'm not sure it did it well. The car didn't start that way either, but the "low fuel" light would come on. The car is not low on fuel.

Take everything out of the frunk, remove your spare, then the access cover on top of the fuel tank and have a look. Inspect closely the wires going to the fuel sender and those going to the fuel pump. Look for shorts or cuts in the insulation around the wires. Also disconnect the quick connect for each and look at the pins inside and see that they all look ok.

[Ron]

Did you try the tests in Post 12 (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17689-Oil-light-on-no-oil-pressure-car-stopped&p=249962&viewfull=1#post249962)? (Divide and conquer!)

[eugenepeabody]

Did you try the tests in Post 12 (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17689-Oil-light-on-no-oil-pressure-car-stopped&p=249962&viewfull=1#post249962)? (Divide and conquer!)

Hi Ron, I did the starter fluid in the air metering plate and the car would briefly start. That was immensely helpful in troubleshooting. Thanks.

[Ron]

Hi Ron, I did the starter fluid in the air metering plate and the car would briefly start. That was immensely helpful in troubleshooting. Thanks.
YW!
That indicates it is a fuel problem (especially if the engine will at least start most every time you try it...). Forget the ignition system for now. Concentrate on whether the pump is not giving the fuel system what it needs or the rest of the fuel system is not doing its job. Turn the key on-off-pause several times (without cranking) and listen for the pump to cycle. Then check whether the air plate offers resistance when you press down on it or it bounces ~freely when you tap it firmly with your finger. This will tell you what to do next.



I tried the RPM relay jump, but only had a paper clip handy and I'm not sure it did it well. The car didn't start that way either, but the "low fuel" light would come on.If the paper clip was working, you should hear the pump running.

Jumping the relay shouldn't affect "low fuel" light. Weird!
If the plate doesn't offer resistance in the test above, I'd follow Jonathan's suggestions and check the wiring at the pump-sender unit first. (A mouse might be setting up shop or ??)

[Michael]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AynXoLjYrKc

Just a thought. Maybe your gauge is lying.