Newb Delorean owner question!!! It won't start!!

[ttwo]

So I've had my delorean for a couple weeks. It has started like a champ every time until today. It didn't start up on the first try so by habit I pumped the accelerator once and it continued to not want to start! I then held the accelerator to the floor like I would with a carburetor engine thinking I may have flooded it. It still won't start.

Is there a trick to starting this car?

I now understand that it is technically fuel injected so should I NEVER tap the accelerator to try to start it?

[ttwo]

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I was told to jump the RPM relay to see if it was that, but I don't think I have one anymore?

Can I shoot some starter fluid in the air intake?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Pressing the throttle will not flood the K-jet engine. All it does is open the throttle plates. There is no accelerator pump like in a carburetor. Was anything different like it sat for a week or have you been running the car daily? There are lots of things that can cause a no start. Fast way to find if it's a fuel problem is to give it a shot of starting fluid into the air plate opening. If you get it fire that way you can assume your problem is fuel and not ignition.

[ttwo]

I just backed it out of the garage and replaced the carpet that I took out earlier and when I went to start it up to put it back in the garage it hesitated in starting and then wouldn't start when I cranked it over again.

I'll go get some starter fluid and try that. do I shoot it forward toward the fuel distributor or just right down the air baffle thing?

It's so bizarre that it would just occur after I just ran it a few minutes prior. Now it just cranks and cranks and nothing.

I did take out the window switches on the center console but I'm sure that it not related.

[Ron]

Push the plate down and spray the fluid under the plate in general.

If you suspect fuel, listen for the pump to run once when you turn the key to run and see if the plate offers resistance when you push down on it. It should. (No pressure will allow it to bounce ~freely.) Pressing the plate will make the injectors spray so don't hold it down and flood the engine. You should smell raw gas if it is flooded.

You might try checking the spark first by pulling the coil wire and using an old plug wire to see if it jumps spark to the engine block while cranking. The resistor block on the drivers side of the bulkhead is a common place to find dirty/loose connections that cause a no spark.

[Michael]

I'm going to sneak a quick question in on this thread rather than start a new one. Tonight at the grocery store, my car took about 5 or 6 seconds of cranking before it started. Usually starts right off the bat hot or cold. Tonight it was hot, sat for about 30 minutes. Here is the catch, had a big crowd and I let about 4 people sit in it before I left. I think one of them may have pumped the accelerator at least once.

Engine was hot, about 90 degrees ambient, sat for about 30 min. Would that cause a hard start issue?

[Ron]

I'm going to sneak a quick question in on this thread rather than start a new one. Tonight at the grocery store, my car took about 5 or 6 seconds of cranking before it started. Usually starts right off the bat hot or cold. Tonight it was hot, sat for about 30 minutes. Here is the catch, had a big crowd and I let about 4 people sit in it before I left. I think one of them may have pumped the accelerator at least once.

Engine was hot, about 90 degrees ambient, sat for about 30 min. Would that cause a hard start issue?

Nope. Pumping the pedal does absolutely nothing but wiggle the throttle plates. No fuel pumped or resetting as with a carb.
(When cranking, same thing, ie, holding the plates open just offers another way for the ample amount of air already allowed to come through. Little if any help clearing out a flooded engine. )

Do you notice if it cranked and cranked, then "caught up" slowly or fired off solid and revved?

[Michael]

Nope. Pumping the pedal does absolutely nothing but wiggle the throttle plates. No fuel pumped or resetting as with a carb.
(When cranking, same thing, ie, holding the plates open just offers another way for the ample amount of air already allowed to come through. Little if any help clearing out a flooded engine. )

Well I just went out and tried it after setting for the same amount of time. Cranked right up. Oh well, back to your regularly scheduled no start thread.

[ttwo]

Push the plate down and spray the fluid under the plate in general.

If you suspect fuel, listen for the pump to run once when you turn the key to run and see if the plate offers resistance when you push down on it. It should. (No pressure will allow it to bounce ~freely.) Pressing the plate will make the injectors spray so don't hold it down and flood the engine. You should smell raw gas if it is flooded.

You might try checking the spark first by pulling the coil wire and using an old plug wire to see if it jumps spark to the engine block while cranking. The resistor block on the drivers side of the bulkhead is a common place to find dirty/loose connections that cause a no spark.

resistor block! very interesting you say that. I have noticed it might not be connected correctly, only because all the pins are not connected. Look at this photo and note that it has been functional previously with it wired like this. But notice the left lower is not connected. is this normal?
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Can you tell me how this resistor block works? what is the purpose?

[Jonathan]

resistor block! very interesting you say that. I have noticed it might not be connected correctly, only because all the pins are not connected. Look at this photo and note that it has been functional previously with it wired like this. But notice the left lower is not connected. is this normal?
61084

Can you tell me how this resistor block works? what is the purpose?

Lower left is meant to be open like that. Upper left has a single connection, while on the right side, the upper connection is supposed to have an additional clip to let you put two connections on that one spot, plus the last (fourth) connection on the lower right.

Details are here on wire colours and whatnot: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?40-All-Wiring-Schematics&p=66530&viewfull=1#post66530

I don't know honestly what exactly it does. Not like an electrician might explain it. Something about it cutting down the starting current for ignition. Or doubling it maybe. What I can tell you is that if the connections on it are not all good and snug, you not only won't be able to start, but if they come loose while driving, it'll shut you down and you won't be able to restart it.

We seem to be seeing a lot of these connections lately getting loose, or brittle, or corroded or the plastic ends crack off. Call it an ageing thing, plus it's pretty hot in that engine bay and that resistor gets very hot to the touch. So those four wires are a good place to start checking, plus the little black ground wire right below the resistor (on the same bracket) and definitely check the wires on top of the ignition coil itself. They'll give you that no start problem too.

Looks like your engine bay light switch isn't connected either yet you have yourself a refurbished car judging by the signature plate you can see there. Anything else on your car not working or plugged in?

[ttwo]

good Info. thanks much!
It is refurbished in 2011.
the only thing so far is that the drivers window doesn't work where as it did recently and there is a vacuum line that I am still trying to find out where it goes that I am holding in that photo and runs straight forward through the firewall, along the drivers side of the tunnel and to the underside of the dash but not anywhere to connect to.

[ttwo]

for completeness I wanted to note that I ended up checking the voltage at the RPM jumper and also at the fuel pump. When jumped the fuel pump had about 9.5 volts to it. Not sure why it isn't closer to 12 V but I then sprayed starter fluid into the intake and it started right up and then ran well. In the end I will keep starter fluid in the car and hope that it doesn't happen somewhere embarrassing! :)

[Jonathan]

Does your HVAC mode control switch work? Like does the air come out the different vents when you select bi-level versus centre vents versus feet or defrost? I think that vacuum line is one of the ones that either connects to the HVAC mode control switch or is the one that provides vacuum to turn those vent baffles one way or the other.

Does your passenger window work? You can try to swap the switches for the windows to help troubleshoot. That way you can try and determine if the problem is in the switch or in the door itself. Both things can happen with the cars.

[ttwo]

Does your HVAC mode control switch work? Like does the air come out the different vents when you select bi-level versus centre vents versus feet or defrost? I think that vacuum line is one of the ones that either connects to the HVAC mode control switch or is the one that provides vacuum to turn those vent baffles one way or the other.

Does your passenger window work? You can try to swap the switches for the windows to help troubleshoot. That way you can try and determine if the problem is in the switch or in the door itself. Both things can happen with the cars.

yep all the vents works as expected and the heat gets hot and AC cold. I've not been able to verify if 'MAX AC' closes the outside vent but I cannot imagine that there would be a single vacuum line off the engine just for that? so this is confusing for sure! I wonder if this is not a standard line as I don't see it go this route in some other photos of delorean engines. This is where it goes through and starts at a T from the valve cover
61087

I switched the driver and passenger switches and both work on the passenger window and neither at the drivers window. Is there a connector diagram from that window switch to the window itself? It's bizarre that it worked a day ago but not now. I did work under the center console but i cannot see anything pinched or cut, so ???

[David T]

Open your Workshop Manual to M:18:15 and you will find the Power Window Circuit wiring diagram. As for vacuum hoses look at the bottom of the open engine cover for the vacuum hose routing decal.

[ttwo]

thanks for the electric wiring! I'll look at that for sure!
Curiously on the DRIVERS side switch there is no ground wire and on the PASSENGER side there is a ground wire. So if someone can look at their switches for me can they tell me if they have only 3 wires on the drivers switch and 4 wires on the passenger switch that would be super helpful!!
maybe it is normal. If not the weird thing is that it worked previously like this!?


the major vacuum hoses are noted on the engine area but the smaller ones (like this one) is not noted on the hood which makes me wonder it if is added or just not 'major' enough to be listed

[Ron]

resistor block! very interesting you say that. I have noticed it might not be connected correctly, only because all the pins are not connected. Look at this photo and note that it has been functional previously with it wired like this. But notice the left lower is not connected. is this normal?
61084.

Can you tell me how this resistor block works? what is the purpose?I see J hooked you up with the schematic.
Basically, the electrical system's voltage (12V) is to high to feed the ignition system (coil) while the engine is running. To lower the voltage, the feed is ran through the resistor. To temporarily make the spark hotter during start-up, power from the starter solenoid triggers the small relay to the left of the resistor which causes the feed to bypass half of the resistor, raising the voltage (i.e. it doesn't reduce the voltage as much as when running).


for completeness I wanted to note that I ended up checking the voltage at the RPM jumper and also at the fuel pump. When jumped the fuel pump had about 9.5 volts to it. Not sure why it isn't closer to 12 V but I then sprayed starter fluid into the intake and it started right up and then ran well. In the end I will keep starter fluid in the car and hope that it doesn't happen somewhere embarrassing! :)You would have to disconnect the pump's feed wire to read the voltage being supplied to it. (Note that 12V on a meter doesn't necessarily mean the the circuit is supplying the power needed i.e. a poor connection might read 12V but not be able to supply the current/amperage needed.

A vacuum leak could explain hard/no starts. The air/fuel ratio would be lean...Spraying starting fluid under the plate could compensate for that. Refer to the chart below to correct the vacuum routing.
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(Click to enlarge)

[Ron]

thanks for the electric wiring! I'll look at that for sure!
Curiously on the DRIVERS side switch there is no ground wire and on the PASSENGER side there is a ground wire. So if someone can look at their switches for me can they tell me if they have only 3 wires on the drivers switch and 4 wires on the passenger switch that would be super helpful!!
maybe it is normal. If not the weird thing is that it worked previously like this!?


the major vacuum hoses are noted on the engine area but the smaller ones (like this one) is not noted on the hood which makes me wonder it if is added or just not 'major' enough to be listed
It take 4 wires to run the switches:
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Chase down where the vacuum lines not in the diagram go to. (Could be bypass repair, aftermarket gauge,...??)

[ttwo]

yeah that is weird but in the wire bundle going to the switches has NO ground wire going to the drivers switch. I wonder if it is just ganged within the wire bundle or if for some reason it is missing. It would be interesting to know if someone elses' DRIVERS side switch has one less wire than the PASSENGER side.

[Ron]

The switch has to swap the incoming power and ground wires going to the motor in order to make it run in both directions. Since it used to work for you in both directions, it had to of came off.
Check this out (bottom of post):
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?17574-How-To-Test-Window-Motors-Jumper-Window-Switchs&p=248579#post248579

[ttwo]

SO bizarre as the second ground it NOT in the wire bundle nor connected to that switch... I'll look around for a loose ground wire slithering around...

WAIT! Does the defrost have just 3 wires? The defroster switch was broken so was not hooked up but I could have been a dummy and put the window switch on the defrost??

[Jonathan]

I was just thinking defrost switch mix up before turning the page to see your last post. I’ll bet you just figured out your window problems!

Edit: if you go look back in that thread with the electrical schematic, the first post or two there contains all kinds of different drawings. And one is for the defrost circuit.

[ttwo]

fyi that was the issue. I put the switch on the wring harness. :8ball: