3D printer [Archive] - DMCTalk Forum

jangell

10-01-2019, 02:44 PM

Interested in this thread. We have some avid 3d printers on here.

In my experience a very good "bang for your buck" printer is the Ender 3. There are certainly better quality printers out there though.

I got an Ender 3 Pro on sale about a month ago. It’s cheap, works well, doesn’t require much assembly, and I got good prints very quickly (once I properly leveled the bed). I’m using Cura for slicing. I’m printing ABS (for use in the car), and found my prints warped until I put it in an enclosure (a photo tent for now). A nice thing about it is that it’s a fairly common and well-supported platform, and there are a lot of inexpensive mods like auto-bed leveling and the like out there. However, it’s only one extruder, which means you can’t print dissolvable supports, but it’s fine for most things. There’s an interesting device called Palette that splices different filaments together while your single extruded printer prints, but that’s over $600 by itself.

The price seems to rise pretty quickly ($700+) once you get above the Ender 3 level ($220 or so), so I’m probably sticking with my Ender 3 for some time. Once I outgrow it I’ll have a better idea of what capabilities I need and can shop for a higher-end printer, but I’m in no hurry.

I understand resin printers are better resolution than FDM ones, but also smaller build areas and more expensive materials, so it’s a trade off.

Edit: Sorry for just talking about the cheap printers, Dave; that’s not at all what you asked for.

— Joe

megamanex

10-01-2019, 03:24 PM

I'm probably the worst case here but I use a formLabs Form3 and sometimes an Objet machine to print. I've also been 3d printing for going on 15 years now, so I've used the entire gamut of printers from SLA, PLA, DLP, to SLS.

The form3 is my daily driver for printing and the material strength after curing and full design iterations is so good that I've a few fully 3d printed parts in the Delorean in upwards of 120 degree Fahrenheit heat with no ill issues or warpage.

The printer is pricey but the resulting material strengths and part tensile strength makes it well worth the expense.

I'm using Materialise Magics for part placement and strength solvers and print in Preform with the Form3.

Resin printers also have more than just resolution going for them. They have flexible materials, clear materials, materials that can withstand from -120 to 400 degrees F (so you can make working engine block parts) as well as the fact that the uv curing process makes watertight meshes that you wouldn't get with some of the lower end (hot glue gun style) plastics printers. You can emulate rubber, silicon, glass, plastics, wax, and even have a rubber like material which we use on props and the like.

www.formlabs.com

I'm also using the formWash and formCure devices as well.

Resolution wise you can get to 25 microns which is about a thin as half a human hair, and though it may take awhile, I've replicated skin pores and printed layers as thin as a piece of cellophane.

Bitsyncmaster

10-01-2019, 04:39 PM

Thanks for the info. I am thinking something in the $3000 to $4000 range. I was thinking these printers would become cheaper which the real low cost ones have but I do want to not have to replace it for a long time.

jangell

10-01-2019, 04:42 PM

megamanex, I think your post is more what Dave was looking for, and with the experience to go with the recommendation too.

If I could afford a Form 3L and the resin, etc., I'd seriously look at getting one myself. I notice that they mention it uses a laser -- does it actually draw the shapes onto the resin? I know cheaper printers (a few hundred dollars, like this one (https://www.amazon.com/ELEGOO-Photocuring-Printer-Off-line-Printing/dp/B07K2ZHMRF/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=3d+printer+SLA&qid=1569961131&s=gateway&sr=8-2)) mask the UV light through an LCD, so you're limited by the resolution of the LCD, which means they tend to have small build areas. I remember long ago that a laser firing into a resin bath was reserved solely for industrial prototyping and costs tens of thousands of dollars, so it's nice to see it coming down to a more reasonable price.

Just so Dave knows, there are various filaments (https://www.matterhackers.com/3d-printer-filament-compare) for FDM-style (extruder/"glue gun") printers like the Ender, Utlimaker, etc, including flexible (commonly used for things like phone cases), wood-like, glow in the dark, nylon, electrically conductive (interesting when used with a two extruders, allowing you to print the circuits and the case at the same time), shiny, etc. For basic stuff PLA is the easiest to print with but too low temperature for a car environment. ABS can survive engine environments (plastic engine parts of the car are often made from ABS), but you're certainly not building parts of your engine out of it. There are also special even higher temperature filaments available, but they require special extruders to reach the required temperatures and heated enclosures. Nicer ABS printers can do 20 micro resolution (like the Ultimaker S5, according to their website).

Now, I've only played with PLA and ABS so far, so I don't know how well any of these others work. So you should probably listen to megamanex more than me.

I hear Jay Leno has a stainless steel 3D printer to make parts for his classic cars, but I think only Jay Leno can afford that.

-- Joe

megamanex

10-01-2019, 05:26 PM

Hey all,
Dave the form 3 is about $3500 for the machine. You're about $150 a cartridge of resin, pre shipping costs.

jangell,
The printer cures the slices with the laser by drawing them. It essentially sends the light to the uv sensitive resin and as the resin comes into contact with the light from the laser it hardens, making a complete slice. Each slice is then stacked, similar to FDM machines, but differing in that there are no gaps between the layers as they cure, so you won't have layers de-laminate.

Stainless steel printers are cool but VERY low resolution..which is fine for car parts.

Bitsyncmaster

10-01-2019, 06:52 PM

Do the printers include any design software or is that a third party supplier? I know nothing about it so are there any standards or drivers for each printer. What about a scanner where you can place a part to scan and then print it?

jangell

10-01-2019, 07:40 PM

My day job is writing 3D graphics software (Modo), so I can answer this one with something resembling authority. :)

You can use any 3D modeling application that can save STL files. I can't actually suggest a good program specifically suited to getting started with 3D printing (I've been using such apps since the early 1990s, so I have no sense of context anymore). There are a lot of modelers out there, including higher-end programs like Modo, Maya, 3DS Max, Cinema4D, CAD programs like Solidworks, and free tools like SketchUp and Blender (and probably others). For this you'll need to learn how to do 3D modeling. Luckily, the slicer software (see below) is pretty forgiving, and you can basically just glom together boxes and other shapes and it'll print just fine.

Once you have an STL file, you have to run it through a slicer. This converts the STL into gcode, which for FDM printers really just tells the extruder where to move and how quickly to move there, plus a few other settings like extruder/bed temperature, which varies depending on the kind of filament you're using. I imagine the gcode for SLA printers is similar, but just says which pixels of the LCD mask to turn on or where the laser draws, and when to move the print up so the next layer can be drawn. The slicer can also generate support geometry for overhangs, adjust infill, and has a bunch of other settings to adjust how the print is done. There are a lot of free slicers out there, and they all seem to do a good job. I'm using Ultimaker Cura, which is pretty user friendly. As best I can tell, pretty much all printers support gcode, so you don't need anything particularly special. Cura had support for Ender 3 USB control out of the box, too, but you can enter custom properties if necessary (build area, number of extruders and other parameters provided by the printer maker). I think the USB protocol is pretty universal as well.

The slicer can control the printer directly, or you can save the gcode file to disk. My Ender 3 has an SD card slot, so I usually just save to that, pop the card in, and select the file to print from the Ender 3's simple UI. I could plug in a USB cable and have the Cura send commands directly to the printer instead, if I so desired.

So that's what you need: A 3D modeling application that exports STL, and a slicer to convert the STL to gcode.

-- Joe

jangell

10-01-2019, 07:51 PM

As for scanners, they do exist, but I haven't looked into them that much. I Kickstarted a small tabletop 3D scanner a while back that has been in a box since I moved, and I haven't managed to find since I got my printer.

There are three basic methods of generating the model from a scan:

- Laser, where a laser line is drawn at almost 90 degrees from the camera position. This causes the camera to see a line representing the silhouette of the model. The model rotates on a turntable, and the slices are combined into a model. This has problems with holes in the model (in the case of a coffee mug, both the hole in the handle and the hole where the coffee goes, the latte because it's rotating the mug along one axis and can't see into the cup). These devices run from a few hundred to thousands of dollars, although if you're enterprising you can build your own (it's just a laser, a camera and a turntable, after all).

- Photogrammetry, where you take pictures from a bunch fo angles with a camera, and the software finds the commonalities and generates a 3D model from them. The more pictures you have, the better the model. I believe free software exists, but I haven't looked in a while. There is plenty of paid software and cloud services that do this, too. You can generate models of any size with this technique (such as mountains), and it can capture the textures from the photos at the same time. Some software can do this with video. There's almost certainly phone apps that do this, but I haven't looked into it. This page might have a few apps worth checking out. (https://all3dp.com/2/5-best-3d-scanner-apps-for-your-smartphone/)

- Structured light capture, where you shine a light pattern onto the model and take pictures of it, and it reconstructs the model based on the distortion of the pattern. This requires fewer photos than photogrammetry does, and can be done in real time. For example, there is software for iPhones with Face ID (which uses a dot projector) that models your face in real-time and can save it as a mesh (it can't be used to make a copy of your face -- Apple restricts the ability for apps to use the full resolution of the cameras), and in fact this is basically how their "Animoji" feature works.

Laser scanning and photogrammetry are commonly used in visual effects, too. The Microsoft Kinect and Face ID on iPhones are common uses of structured light capture.

-- Joe

Bitsyncmaster

10-01-2019, 08:11 PM

Thanks jangell. Boy your scaring me with all the technical terms but I bet when I start using some software it will make sense. You have me now looking for 3D modeling which exprots the STL files and slicer software for the gcode output file.

megamanex

10-01-2019, 08:39 PM

Preform, the slicer for formlabs printers, comes with the printer so you just have to put the stl in and print.

Now the other thing to really understand, however, is making a structurally solid 3d printable part. Not just any single pixel thick mesh can work as a 3d printable surface. There are free softwares like Autodesk Meshmixer that can help you check your parts for printability that I'd consider using for printing.

Blender's become a fairly good free 3d modeling software that you can jump into if you're looking to learn. I personally use Maya, but I'm vfx based so we tend to use Maya for most work along with softwares such as Zbrush and even Modo :) for sculpting characters and the like. Solidworks is good as well if you're looking to make hard surface physically accurate models. It's a bit overkill for hobbyists but there are many options you can explore.

megamanex

10-01-2019, 08:42 PM

3d scanning isn't a scan and print affair. Most 3d scanners create a large amount of errors, especially with shiny bits and parts. In the case of every scan I've always had to engineer cleanup. If you want to scan without any special hardware and get really good results you can use a DSLR camera and Reality Capture and it'll do REAL good at solving a mesh from a photo session. It's about $99 for 3 months subscription with a photo limit (that you probably won't need to bust) but the trial lets you run things for free before you commit to it.

https://www.capturingreality.com/

You'll still have scan errors, you'll still need to cleanup scandata, and it'll take time. I'd recommend Zbrush to clean the scandata, but that's about $900 a license.

My workflow is typically:
- either Maya or Zbrush for an original asset (Blender would work here for you as free alternative).
- Cleanup and scale (you may have to cut parts up to do a larger print on a smaller bed) (and hollowing to save material if needed) in Materialise Magics (its about $7k a license so you're better off using MeshMixer which is free)
- export stl or obj from Magics (or MeshMixer)...to be honest most slicers use OBJ files now with no issues
- open stl or obj in Preform (which is free and part of the Formlabs Form3 software)

-Print!
- Take print, put into formWash and let it sift and agitate for 15 mins
- Let print air dry in Wash
- Place print into formCure, set to proper material settings for optimum surface integrity
- Cure for about an hour

- Pull part out of formCure, pull off the supports, cleanup and sand, and you're done.

megamanex

10-01-2019, 08:49 PM

We're currently 3d printing things right now at about 36 feet long by 26 feet wide by 12 feet tall and that stuff is kinda incredible.

Essentially 3d printing my own vehicle chassis from Maya meshes in foam, casting them in fiberglass, and then finished products come out flawless.

It's super cool.

jangell

10-01-2019, 11:11 PM

What megamanex said. For modeling, it’s mostly thinking of building it like a real object. Modeling apps don’t obey the laws of physics, so you need to add physical constraints yourself. CAD apps are a little better, but you can still do impossible things. You just have to keep that in mind, and avoid adding details that are too fine and shapes that can’t physically work. You also need to be aware of the size of your build area; if your model is too big you might have to do multiple prints and glue or otherwise fasten them together.

I haven’t used Meshmixer (Autodesk, our (Modo’s) arch nemesis!), but it sounds like a good plan. I’ve also printed smaller pieces of my models to test fits and designs so that I don’t have to spend material and time on larger prints when I’m only tweaking a small part.

The slicers are pretty easy to use. I can’t speak to the Form one, but in Cura you mostly just pick your material, pick a print quality, and click Slice. You only have to play with the settings if you are doing something unusual or need more control.

After that, you just give it to your printer, wait a while (probably a few hours for an FDM print; not sure how fast resin ones are), and you’ll have your model. Final finishing work depends on how pretty you want them to be. So far I’ve just used the raw prints, but I’m making relay boxes and speedometer housings and tablet stands — nothings fancy. This is a two-piece stand I finished today to mount a tablet for EFI tuning over the center stack on the DMC (it slips between the top of the stack and the trim).

6132461325

Honestly, learning how to do 3D modeling is going to take most of your time. But you can literally just throw together boxes and cylinders and get something decent, depending on what your end goal is. That’s basically what I did with the tablet holder above, plus some boolean subtractions to cut the hinges and some other holes. It’s not a pretty model, but it doesn’t have to be.

I’ve only done a little scanning, but I can attest that all models need cleanup. In some cases you might be better off just using the scan as a reference and building a new model over it. I had some grand plans to design a new interior for the DMC from photogrammetry and 3D printing, but I don’t want to make 300 FDM prints for a dashboard/console. :)

While I’d like to recommend Modo, it’s a $600/year subscription, so you’d probably want to go with Blender or Sketchup or something like that so you can get the hang of modeling. I feel like Sketchup might be more tailored to this kind of thing (it’s just a CAD-like modeler; Modo, Blender, Maya, etc are full model/texture/animate/render packages), but I haven’t used since I tinkered with it many years ago, and I’m not sure what it’s like these days.

I want to see the 36’ print megamanex is making but I’m guessing it’s NDA’ed VFX stuff. ;)

— Joe

Bitsyncmaster

10-02-2019, 06:03 AM

-Print!
- Take print, put into formWash and let it sift and agitate for 15 mins
- Let print air dry in Wash
- Place print into formCure, set to proper material settings for optimum surface integrity
- Cure for about an hour

- Pull part out of formCure, pull off the supports, cleanup and sand, and you're done.

So what is this formWash and formCure? I see the FORM printers can be bought in a basic $3500 or $6000 system.

megamanex

10-02-2019, 10:14 AM

The wash and cure machines allow for better part finishing after the print.

https://formlabs.com/wash-cure/

They’re probably part of that more expensive bundle now.

Bitsyncmaster

10-03-2019, 08:13 PM

Jason

10-04-2019, 08:54 AM

I downloaded Blender. Holly Shi...t. That software is going to take forever to learn. It does things you really don't need to print a 3D part. I guess I don't think much about 3d since parts I machine are just thought of differently.

Blender really isn't a good tool for part design.

I think FreeCAD is the best of the open source tools, though it's kind of hard to learn and seem to behave strangely whenever I try to use it. Fusion 360 seems to be a decent free option if you don't mind cloud based stuff that could disappear if Autodesk decides to make it non-free or shut it down. I've never tried it though as I don't like relying on cloud based stuff.

I use ZW3D, which while pricy (seems to be at $2000 now, was less when I bought it), is probably the best value for mid-range 3D CAD, and has everything needed to do precise engineering parts. It's Solidworks like software at 1/3 the price. There is a 30 day free trial you can download.

Bitsyncmaster

10-04-2019, 09:39 AM

What I'm looking to create is a disk I can put text on. Sounds pretty simple but looks like I need to watch all the you tube training just to do that.

Jason

10-04-2019, 06:14 PM

What I'm looking to create is a disk I can put text on. Sounds pretty simple but looks like I need to watch all the you tube training just to do that.

Yea, Blender will do that. And yes, you'll have to go through a whole bunch of tutorials to figure out how to do it.

mr_maxime

10-04-2019, 06:33 PM

Alternatively, there are companies that do 3D printing with higher end equipment at a reasonable price. I used this company at my job https://www.rapidmade.com/ . It's a nylon material and unlike the other ABS prints, it is solid all the way through. The resolution is also MUCH better.

I've also seen some demo parts made with the markforged printers. They use carbon fiber in the plastic for much stronger parts and there are a lot of other material options. The base desktop one seems to start at $3500. I'm planning to have some car parts for my z3 made with this.

In terms of scanners, I think Keyence makes a desktop one, but I have no idea what the cost is. I am pushing my company to go with this scanner https://www.creaform3d.com/en/portable-3d-scanner-handyscan-3d , but that's a $75k system. We need it to start reverse engineering parts and validating equipment setup. Once we get it in, I'll start scanning delorean parts in my off time.

megamanex

10-06-2019, 12:29 PM

3d printing services in general charge a 700-1000% markup on the cost to print. It's something to bear in mind when using those services.

Bitsyncmaster

10-06-2019, 01:21 PM

Well I have tried about 7 CAD design software and only the very basic "Tinkercad" let me get anywhere with a simple design. I then can import that into other software to get a little more checking. I'm just testing this software on my lap top so maybe some problem is I don't have a real mouse connected. Wonder if there is a class I can take for 3D design.

megamanex

10-07-2019, 06:52 PM

https://www.gnomon.edu/courses/online

I used to teach at Gnomon, they have quite a few good courses and you can also get training videos. Not sure if the cost is too much but it's a potential avenue.

Bitsyncmaster

10-07-2019, 07:05 PM

Can I 3D print over a "hole". I can flip the project if printing over a hole is not possible.

mr_maxime

10-07-2019, 07:16 PM

3d printing services in general charge a 700-1000% markup on the cost to print. It's something to bear in mind when using those services.

I wouldn't be surprised but often its still WAY cheaper than buying a whole printer. I think the nylon printers are easily over $50k and possibly over $100k. Through work, I'd need easily over 200 more print jobs to break even on $50k.

mr_maxime

10-07-2019, 07:28 PM

Can I 3D print over a "hole". I can flip the project if printing over a hole is not possible.

It'll depend on the printer. You'll want one with support material most likely. Some use the ABS or print material to make a support which you need to cut away. This leaves a rougher surface and the print material can sag. Others will use a different material meant to be dissolved but it can often be chipped out. This is much smoother and minimizes sagging.

Multi jet fusion printer uses a different approach where layers of powder are deposited at a time with binder being printed on each layer. You can create way more complicated pieces without worrying about them collapsing on top of each other since it is always supported.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=39&v=sUjyKOiIhwg

jangell

10-07-2019, 07:39 PM

It also depends on what quality you’re looking for. My simple ABS prints are just functional, and I don’t care as much about them being pretty, and if I do I can sand the down later. I’ve printed with supports too, which the slicer does a pretty good job of making strong enough for the print but fragile enough that I can just snap away with my fingers most of the time.

The other thing about owning a printer is that you can do test prints easily, without having to wait for shipping from a printing company. I used this to good effect as I learned the tolerances of parts that had to slide together after printing, since the 3D model doesn’t necessarily quite correlate to the real world print. On the other hand, the companies will likely have far nicer printers and be able to work in more exotic materials with higher quality tolerances and finishes, so it really depends on what you want to do.

— Joe

mr_maxime

10-07-2019, 09:11 PM

The other thing about owning a printer is that you can do test prints easily, without having to wait for shipping from a printing company. I used this to good effect as I learned the tolerances of parts that had to slide together after printing, since the 3D model doesn’t necessarily quite correlate to the real world print. On the other hand, the companies will likely have far nicer printers and be able to work in more exotic materials with higher quality tolerances and finishes, so it really depends on what you want to do.

— Joe

Most of my 3D printing needs have been work related, so I have the benefit of using our in-house ABS printer to see if the part fits before I order a nicer one. I didn't realize there were 3D printing services until recently, since it was the first time I needed it. That's why I'm pointing it out before someone invests $3k in a printer they might only make $200 worth of parts on. In terms of personal projects though, I'm not coming close to $3k in parts so I'll be using printing companies.

jangell

10-07-2019, 09:22 PM

Oh, you’re completely right — 3D printing services are definitely an option. I didn’t mean to imply that they weren’t.

— Joe

megamanex

10-08-2019, 12:19 AM

mr_maxime,
nylon printers are now $10,000. Time's are changing as tech matures!

https://formlabs.com/3d-printers/fuse-1/

Bitsyncmaster

10-08-2019, 05:10 AM

This design program looks more like what I need. I don't need animation. I don't like the cloud software which seems to run very slow on my 20 MBit internet. I installed this program (takes about half hour) and have imported my .stl file but need to play with this awhile. This looks like a great program to design gears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXgMY3-hlgs

mr_maxime

10-08-2019, 06:26 PM

mr_maxime,
nylon printers are now $10,000. Time's are changing as tech matures!

https://formlabs.com/3d-printers/fuse-1/

That's definitely one I wasn't aware of. That one is laser sintering. The ones I was referring to are HP's multi jet fusion which is a different process. That's also an estimate gathered from other websites because HP doesnt list the price. I have no idea how the different processes affect the parts though.

megamanex

10-08-2019, 10:21 PM

It's pretty fun.
Laser sintering to nylon but the HP multijet is similar to the objet in how it lays down the material. Both are great processes though I believe the HP setup is a pseudo subscription base.

Bitsyncmaster

10-09-2019, 07:54 PM

I ordered a mouse for my computer. Have not needed a mouse since I lost my job 5 years ago. It looks like the FORM 3 printers have a 3 month ship delay. I'm still not ready to buy one yet anyway.

mluder

10-10-2019, 05:59 PM

I haven't take time to read all the comments so I apologize for any duplication.

Printers - There are two main types of printers - FDM and SLA
FDM is the filament style printer. SLA uses light cured liquid resin.
You said resolution was a concern so SLA will give you the best resolution however it comes with a cost on several fronts - price of machine, price of resin, and the prints take longer. You also must rinse the prints in isopropyl alcohol and post cure the resin under UV light. Not to mention the resin is "dangerous" - you don't want to get it on your skin or eyes.
FDM is relatively quick to print but you can get much larger build area. The drawback is visible layer lines but they can be removed with sanding... some FDM material is easier to sand than others.

In regards to modeling software, I use Fusion 360 from Autodesk. It's free to non-commercial users.
Past versions (and Free versions) of Sketchup weren't really designed for modeling 3D components meant to be printed. Maybe that's changed. Don't know.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Steve

mr_maxime

10-10-2019, 07:27 PM

I ordered a mouse for my computer. Have not needed a mouse since I lost my job 5 years ago. It looks like the FORM 3 printers have a 3 month ship delay. I'm still not ready to buy one yet anyway.

Regular mouse?

I use this at work https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079V4PXYD/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_p47NDbKM1GGA9 100% worth it

Bitsyncmaster

10-10-2019, 07:56 PM

Regular mouse?

I use this at work https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079V4PXYD/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_dp_U_x_p47NDbKM1GGA9 100% worth it

Wow. That looks cool. Yes I just bought a regular mouse. I will have to look at some reviews of that 3D mouse.

jangell

10-10-2019, 08:44 PM

I actually wrote the Spaceball/3D mouse implementation for Modo. They’re neat, but for whatever reason I could never get into really using one, but some of our users swear by them (in combination with a normal mouse or tablet).

— Joe

Bitsyncmaster

10-17-2019, 04:05 PM

Bitsyncmaster

12-06-2019, 07:58 PM

Well I'm printing my first 3D print. I set the printer to print it flat on the print base but the preform software suggested I print it with supports. Not sure if I did the right thing. I was printing something with the letter R as a hole and since the top of that letter has a "hole" where the print is not supported I added a solid layer I will machine off later.

So does the preform software add supports where it needs to like on the letter R "hole"?

Bitsyncmaster

12-07-2019, 09:11 AM

Wow I'm learning of things not to do.

It was really hard to remove my part from the print platform. I will put small standoffs on the surface where the parts sits on the print platform. The part came off when I squeezed in in my vice and it just popped of with a click sound.

You can see what I'm planning to do with my photo. I plan to fill the hollow image with a transparent filler and then machine both sides flat so I can illuminate by back lighting with some LEDs. But my numbers and letters have a very fine thickness and I don't think a pour in filler will fill those fine lines. So I need to make them larger and or find another font.

I am also thinking of making instrument gauge face plates and switch rockers but who knows.

Now as far as the FORM3 printer, as you can see the result is very good. But it is a messy, long time consuming thing to do. This print took a little over 2.5 hours but a half hour was the print try filling so that stays filled now. There is an odor when the printer is running. I set the layers a 50 micro thickness. The FORM3 can do finer and thicker where thicker makes it print faster.

Bitsyncmaster

12-08-2019, 04:30 PM

I printed my second gear knob test today. Just another disk but I got the numbers working out nice now and I printed it with a bunch of little standoffs so it was easy to remove from the printer base. I ordered some clear casting epoxy and some color dyes to experiment with filling the shift "decal". My plan is to make the decal translucent so I can mount LEDs behind it. But I can even print it as a solid ball and the decal would never wear off with it cast into the ball. Then there is the possibility of 3D printing a mold so parts can just be cast.

Laying out the decal on a ball is a little more challenging since you need to tilt the lettering to the center. I'm using TinkerCAD which is a very simple to learn program but does not have a lot of the fancy controls of other 3D modeling software. If your new to this I recommend you start with TinkerCAD.

My FORM3 printer would print the parts by placing the part where it sees fit and add the supports needed but it wants to hold it with the disk sideways and that would take a long time to print. Printing parts you need to have supports where the part is not solid from the base. So parts that hang in free air above the base will sag or not print solid without something holding it up. Now all those supports need to be cut off the part so that surface is not perfect either.

Bitsyncmaster

12-14-2019, 07:11 PM

Doing more experimenting. It's a pain I can't set a large flat surface onto the base plate when 3D printing. Can't do that because it's to hard to remove from the base plate. So I'm printing it elevated with many small standoffs printed first so just twisting it by hand after the print breaks off those standoffs. It still prints very nice even setting the print layers at 0.1 mm thick which speeds up the print.

I printed 4 of those gear disks to experiment with filling the "decal" with translucent epoxy. I just filled one. I mixed up 5 grams of epoxy and used 3 drops of white coloring and will see how that works out passing light through it.

mr_maxime

12-14-2019, 09:30 PM

Dave, we just got our 3D scanner at work. Getting the training for it in mid Jan. Let me know if there are any parts you'd like me to scan.

Bitsyncmaster

12-15-2019, 04:49 AM

Dave, we just got our 3D scanner at work. Getting the training for it in mid Jan. Let me know if there are any parts you'd like me to scan.

Cool. I was just thinking about 3D scanning if I need to make a broken part from a kids toy or an automotive part. It takes a lot of time to layout a part.

mr_maxime

12-15-2019, 07:58 AM

Cool. I was just thinking about 3D scanning if I need to make a broken part from a kids toy or an automotive part. It takes a lot of time to layout a part.

We got an industrial level setup. The thing is accurate down to 0.035mm. It will also convert scans into solidworks files. It'll be super nice to be able to use since it's definitely not affordable for a hobbyist.

Bitsyncmaster

12-15-2019, 11:31 AM

Well I machined that first test disk with the translucent white "decal" and it looks pretty good in that the light makes nice sharp letters. I was worried that I might see the black sides when back illuminated. I do need to print another test disk with a thicker "back plate" so the number 4 holds that center "post" straight and gives me more to machine off to get it flat before the decal fill. I then want to try to polish it to see how black the 3D parts get.

That clear epoxy I'm using is really nice. It's thin, clear and hardens to a hard glossy surface with no bubbles.

Bitsyncmaster

12-27-2019, 01:56 PM

Here is my latest 3D print. I'm still learning the tricks to 3D printing. This last print taught me I need to make the items accessible to get them thoroughly cleaned (printer liquid removed after the print). So next time I will print the letters open on the top of the ball. This one I had the letters open inside the ball and could only clean it through the hole in the bottom of the ball. But it came out pretty nice anyway.

This 3D resin polishes up pretty nice.
Think I will shorten the shift outline a little.
These letters had no offset and the R and 5 show it since they are the farthest offset from center.
I ordered a new tool holder for my lathe so I can machine balls. I had to machine this one by hand adjustments.
The OE ball offset the decal a little. I will offset it a little more so.

Still not sure if LED back lighting will be possible but the white "decal" on these balls can never wear off.

Rich_NYS

12-28-2019, 07:35 AM

Looks really good, this is a great idea.

Bitsyncmaster

12-28-2019, 11:29 AM

I ordered some hex bar stock to make the insert for the new gear ball. Have been thinking I like the letters not tilted flat to surface of the ball. If you think about it, looking straight down on the letters they will look perfect but looking at the ball tilted the letter looks stretched. I did figure out a way to tilt the letters (make them very thin so they rotate almost on the surface, then make them thick again when ready to print).

The next ball I 3D print will probably be a finished part. Depends on how the fit of the insert goes.

My gear stick has a pretty thick nut used to adjust the ball rotation position. I think a better solution is to adjust with a stack of thin washers so the ball sits lower on the stick than with the OEM nut adjustment.

Also thinking maybe having a small set screw in the back of the ball could be used to prevent someone from stealing the ball at a car show.

Bitsyncmaster

12-29-2019, 01:52 PM

I printed a 1.00" hex blank with a 0.500" hex hole just to test the accuracy of the result. Two sides of the outside measure 1.000" and the last side is 0.002" under. Two sides of the inside hex are 0.004" under and the last ID is 0.003" under.

I want to have a tight fit on my steel hex insert into the shift ball. So I plan to do a few of these test "disks" to test the breaking interference size. In other words how much this plastic can expand. I have to wait to get my hex stock to measure it's exact size. It looks like all the sizes on the OEM ball were done in inches and the only thing metric is the 8mm 1.25 thread of the insert.

Bitsyncmaster

12-30-2019, 04:15 PM

Got my hex bar stock today (SS-316). It measures almost 0.001 under the half inch. It pressed right into my hex test disk no problem. Just pressed it by hand, no hammer or press needed. So the 0.003 interference fit looks just about right for the tight fit I wanted. I'm going to machine a little grove in the insert and print a grove in the ball which will be filled with epoxy to keep it from pulling the insert out.

Bitsyncmaster

12-31-2019, 11:58 AM

I messed up my resin tank because the ball fell off the print platform. So I'm shut down till I get a new tank ($60). Live and learn that you need a larger printed surface on your base layers. It printed about 1/4 of the ball before it shut off. The resin tank has a clear plastic layer on the bottom and when it fell off it continued to print so it glued itself to that plastic layer.

Jason

12-31-2019, 12:50 PM

Bitsyncmaster

01-01-2020, 08:06 AM

FYI:

The SLA/DLP type 3D printers place a thin layer of resin building from the print platform (BASE). After each layer the base moves away from the resin tank to pull the last layer off the bottom of resin tank. So you need more "stick" to the build platform then the "stick" to the resin tank. That is why the auto placing of your build tries to reduce the area of each layer by placing it at an angle to reduce the area in each layer.

When printing a ball there is no angle to reduce the area so you need to print it on a platform (boat) to lay down enough surface area on the base. Now it sticks much better to the print platform than the plastic clear sheet of the resin tank so you don't need the same area or more on your platform. But so far I think that is just a guess on my part.

I would also think building the part a little offset from the center of the resin tank would pull one side off at a time since the resin tank plastic would flex from the edges when the part is lifted on each layer.

Bitsyncmaster

01-01-2020, 12:11 PM

I could not tap that 316 SS. That stuff is just to hard to tap. So I found some "extension" nuts that are long enough but I have to machine a small indent so the glue holds it in and machine them a little shorter.

Bitsyncmaster

01-03-2020, 12:26 PM

Try pouring some resin cleaner in the tank, let it soak for a minute or two, and then gently prying the failed print off bottom.

I think I did get my resin tank cleaned without any damage. I will have to try a print with it. After I found out the resin tanks for the Form 3 printer are $150 each, I'm glad I did not throw out the one I thought was NG. I did order two new spares. You need another tank when you change resins or else you would have to clean the tank each time. The resin stays filled in the tank so I just leave it in the printer.

megamanex

01-03-2020, 07:48 PM

I think I did get my resin tank cleaned without any damage. I will have to try a print with it. After I found out the resin tanks for the Form 3 printer are $150 each, I'm glad I did not throw out the one I thought was NG. I did order two new spares. You need another tank when you change resins or else you would have to clean the tank each time. The resin stays filled in the tank so I just leave it in the printer.

Hey there, Don’t leave the tank in the printer when you’re not actively printing. Store in in the orange and black storage case that it came in. I’ve been STRONGLY advised this by the Form3 team from when I was originally beta testing the printer to the final model today.

That’s why they give the storage cases with the tanks now.

Bitsyncmaster

01-04-2020, 05:17 AM

Hey there, Don’t leave the tank in the printer when you’re not actively printing. Store in in the orange and black storage case that it came in. I’ve been STRONGLY advised this by the Form3 team from when I was originally beta testing the printer to the final model today.

That’s why they give the storage cases with the tanks now.

I was thinking about that when I first got my printer but thought since both the storage container and the printer have the orange plastic covers I assume filters out the UV light. You just have to be careful to not tip the tank removing it because it's still full of resin.

Bitsyncmaster

01-04-2020, 08:13 AM

Well I ran a couple fast prints with the cleaned resin tank and they worked. So I started another gear ball. I was watching as it prints and I see after it exposes a layer, it slowly pulls up the base plate until it senses it pulled off the bottom of the resin tank. Sometimes it pulls off very quickly and sometimes it has to pull a lot higher and the tank makes a thud when it pulls off. So I wonder if it did that before I cleaned the tank.

Anyway that make me think it's better to place the part in the back near the edge centered on the platform. That should make it release the layer faster and result in faster print times. It does take longer when the layer sticks hard to the resin tank.

Edit:
Now the base is above the resin level and it it pulling up very quick with no noise. I wonder if my part fell off the base.

Bitsyncmaster

01-04-2020, 11:36 AM

Well that ball print failed. The part held fine on the base platform but at around layer 100 it pulled the next layer off the part so it stuck to the resin tank. I emailed form labs asking them what could have happened. Maybe my cleaning the old resin tank with alcohol did something. So I'm waiting on the new resin tank to try it again. I hope they arrive today.

megamanex

01-04-2020, 12:22 PM

megamanex

01-04-2020, 12:23 PM

Can you send screenshots of your form file? Sound like you may be creating cups with the print which is causing the part to stick on the tank bottom.

Bitsyncmaster

01-04-2020, 02:28 PM

It isn't because of the covering of UV light. The recommendation is because if the lower transparent layer fails while not in use in the printer it won't pour resin all inside the bed of the printer and potentially void your warranty. Do what you will but unlike the form 2 they don't recommend keeping the tray in the printer when not in use.

Thanks for that. That does make sense.

My gear ball print has a hole from the base to about 3/4 up to the top and the print failed about 1/4 of the way or less. I could send you the STL and FORM files if you think you could help. I would need your email address. I did another ball a few days ago that was almost the same design and it printed fine.

I placed the print near the back left corner which I have been doing for all my prints. I wonder if things would work better to place it in the center of the base platform.

megamanex

01-04-2020, 02:43 PM

Thanks for that. That does make sense.

My gear ball print has a hole from the base to about 3/4 up to the top and the print failed about 1/4 of the way or less. I could send you the STL and FORM files if you think you could help. I would need your email address. I did another ball a few days ago that was almost the same design and it printed fine.

I placed the print near the back left corner which I have been doing for all my prints. I wonder if things would work better to place it in the center of the base platform.

I just messaged you on Facebook. You may need a re-orient and additional supports at the lower end of the print. Position on platform hasn’t ever mattered for me on printing.

megamanex

01-04-2020, 11:39 PM

Two modified form files sent your way with explanations!

I can run them on my end if you send me the file without the cube embedded but you should be able to test on your end. I'm sure they'll print fine in the two options I've given you.

Citizen

01-05-2020, 06:44 PM

Is anyone on here who has a 3D printer interested in making something for me, for a fee of course? Rather than buying a printer myself, I think it would be cheaper for me to just pay someone who has a printer, if I could get the design to them. I have to research design software first and convert my hand drawings to electronic. Someone on here suggested Fusion 360 by Autodesk. I think I'll look into that.

What I need is a 3-gauge holder that can be mounted under-dash. The gauges are digital, and so they are rectangular, not round. Plastic would be acceptable, I think, but it would need to be a very sturdy plastic. The actual monolithic part would be about 10 inches wide, and maybe 3 inches tall and 3 inches deep, with holes, and so I don't think it would take very much material. I already have a part made out of metal that I made myself in my garage, but I did it the old way...by cutting and shaping metal from a piece of raw stock (sheet metal). My metal version will work, but it's not very good and doesn't hold the gauges sturdy because I cut the holes slightly too large. And of course, it looks home-made (which it is).

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions as to how I get started with making one of these by 3D printing? Sorry to hijack, but I thought I'd ask here since there was already a discussion on 3D printing.

Thanks.
Thomas

...

Bitsyncmaster

01-06-2020, 07:58 PM

Finally got my 3D print to work. I'm convinced my cleaning the resin tray in alcohol made the print layers stick to the resin tray. Here is a photo of how it comes out of the printer.

Jason

01-06-2020, 09:48 PM

Finally got my 3D print to work. I'm convinced my cleaning the resin tray in alcohol made the print layers stick to the resin tray. Here is a photo of how it comes out of the printer.

You should be able to get that to print smooth without the visible facets. What design software are you using?

megamanex

01-07-2020, 12:03 AM

The part was built with visible facets. It just needs to be subdivided more before the booleans for the lettering and it’ll work great.

Did you use one of my layouts or make a new one for that print? It looks good! I think you were just having cupping issues.

Bitsyncmaster

01-07-2020, 05:58 AM

I'm using TinkerCAD. That very basic software does not let me set a finer ball with smaller facets.

I did the preform over myself. I learned I can remove the internal supports that the auto support insisted on putting in.

The ball gets machined on my lathe anyway to remove the white epoxy I pour into that box around the letters. The supports leave a little chip anyway which also has to be machined off.

The service rep at FormLabs agrees with me that my problem was cleaning the inside of the resin tray with alcohol.

jpjones125

01-09-2020, 08:49 AM

Is it possible to 3D print a replacement grill for the DeLorean? Or would that be too big of an item to print as one piece?

Been trying to see about having a custom grill printed, have found lots of options but not many specifics for price and durability. Could just be that I dont know the right questions to ask.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Bitsyncmaster

01-09-2020, 10:55 AM

MrChocky

01-09-2020, 11:19 AM

They make 3D printers of any size but most hobby priced units have about a 10" length limit.I was just discussing this this morning. You can get very large mixed media units. Of course, for the same price, you could buy a house with a multi car garage and a bunch of Ds to go in them.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Bitsyncmaster

01-09-2020, 06:46 PM

Here are some photos of my last 3D print. I will try printing one inverted because it was hard to machine the side where it mounts in my lathe. Printing upside down will leave the ball shape with just miner filing and sanding. I also have to make my hex insert fit tighter so the ball is centered on my lathe as it was centered in the 3D print. Also will add a small ring in the center of the ball so I can setup my radius machine tool. So rather than pour the white epoxy on the outside, I will be pouring it on the side and machine the printed cover off the outside since it's easy to machine that end of the ball. Also those support rods the 3D printer needs did make a small chip in the ball so maybe cutting that end off will prevent that.

I offset the "decal" 10 degrees from the top. I will put this ball in my car and decide if I should have more offset. This ball is completely functional though with the proper 8mm threaded insert.

It will still take some minor hand sanding to remove the marks when sanding in the lathe which I did not do on this ball.

Rhye

01-10-2020, 02:20 AM

You can get very large mixed media units. Of course, for the same price, you could buy a house (...)

https://top3dshop.com/product/modix-120x-3d-printer

Bitsyncmaster

01-10-2020, 08:01 AM

I think it will look better with the "decal" tilted to 15 degrees rather than the 10 degree I had. It looks like the stock shift ball also was tilted at 10 degrees.

This photo was with the gear in neutral.

Bitsyncmaster

01-11-2020, 08:28 AM

Well I printed another ball with the lettering to be poured on the inside. But I forgot I need to clean out all the liquid resin before poring the white epoxy and you have a hard time doing that with only a small hole to inject solvent into and blow out.

Anyway it printed fine with no problems so I will use this to test my machining an fit.

Michael

01-11-2020, 12:13 PM

I am definitely going to be in the market for a printer this year. I remember just a few years ago when this was fairly new technology a printer cost about the same as a decent DeLorean.

Any suggestions for a good budget priced unit designed for idiots?

Bitsyncmaster

01-13-2020, 05:17 AM

Well as I suspected the pouring of the white epoxy on the inside will not work because I can't clean all the uncured print "ink" prior to pouring. Now my next problem is if I print the part to pour from the outside then that "decal" has to printed last (away from the base plate) because of the little inside part of the "R" and "4" since you can't put a support on those parts.

So it looks like I need a way to machine both sides of the ball. I'm thinking of a way to print an area that will support one side in my lathe 4 jaw chuck. The other side is supported by the threaded insert for machining.

Another option is to print the ball in two halfs and glue them together. Or print the lettered area as a disk that is then glued into the printed ball.

WHO1DMC

01-13-2020, 08:51 AM

Bitsyncmaster

01-13-2020, 10:53 AM

I've seen some videos on youtube of people sticking UV LEDs in hollow prints to cure them on the inside.
Is that something that would work for your project?

Dave B.

That may be a good idea on some designs but my problem was I could not wash the uncured resin out of the fine lettering outline.

DMC-Ron

01-14-2020, 05:04 AM

Another option is to print the ball in two halfs and glue them together. Or print the lettered area as a disk that is then glued into the printed ball.

I think you're on to something with the two halves. But perhaps split it bottom third, top two/thirds. Or even larger ratio. Just enough to give you access for cleaning thru the bottom. It might also be an advantage to have the bottom open for incorporating the required mounting thread. Finally, when top and bottom get assembled, the mating crease is fairly hidden on the lower side of the ball.

Ron

Bitsyncmaster

01-14-2020, 08:46 PM

Well I printed a ball with the lettering pointing down (this is the last thing printed and is away from the base, my printer the base is on top and it moves down to start and then moves up with each slice printed). I printed a "box" around the numbers and letters. So I was able to fully clean out any liquid resin and pour the white epoxy into that box. After it hardened I could then use that box to clamp it into my 4 jaw chuck on my lathe. So I machined the bottom of the gear ball.

The hex insert was a little tight but I got it installed so now I can use that threaded insert to hold it in my lathe and machine the top half (machine that box off to expose the numbers). It's funny that hex insert printed about 0.006" smaller just because it is now printed at 15 degrees offset from the base. Probably would have been same size if I printed thinner slices but that adds a lot of print time. I'm printing 100 mm slices and could select 50 mm or 25 mm.

I also find machining the ball if your take off 0.010" cuts you get a little chipping of the ball but 0.005" cut seems to stop that. So final cuts I do at 0.0025".

Bitsyncmaster

01-18-2020, 11:07 AM

Well I'm keeping the 15 degree offset on the "decal" so all I'm doing now is making changes to make machining changes to my 3D model. I put two rings on the ball so I can center it with my dial indicator for each the halfs that get machined. It turns out those hex inserts are not made well enough to depend on the threaded part to be exactly centered and parallel. Not that it matters when finished it's just to get the ball machined. I would have to machine my own inserts to get perfection but that would take to much time if I decide to sell these.

It looks like 600 grit sand paper wet sanding the ball it pretty good to eliminate any scratching before I polish the ball. The "decal" comes out perfect in that you can not even feel it with your finger nail. I guess if you don't like glossy you just don't do the final polish.

Bitsyncmaster

01-19-2020, 08:02 AM

I had a great idea while machining the last gear ball I just printed. I am having trouble getting the second half of the ball machined because of the accuracy of the threaded insert pressed and glued into the ball. I thought of making a holder for the head-stock of my lathe that will center from the first machined ball end. My lathe head-stock has a #1 Morse taper so I ordered a Morse blank that I can machine a ring into and an 8 mm threaded rod. So if this works it should not need any centering, just screw the part onto the holder.

SS Spoiler

01-19-2020, 03:11 PM

curious what type of lathe you have...

Bitsyncmaster

01-19-2020, 03:24 PM

curious what type of lathe you have...

I have the Sherline lathe and mill along with a lot of their accessories. Maybe someday I will update them the CNC.

https://www.sherline.com/

SS Spoiler

01-19-2020, 06:55 PM

goggle "Joe Martin Craftmanship museum"
in Carlsbad Cal. A very worthy trip...

Bitsyncmaster

01-20-2020, 06:18 AM

goggle "Joe Martin Craftmanship museum"
in Carlsbad Cal. A very worthy trip...

Yes the examples of what can be done by an experienced machinist is amazing. I have had my Sherline machines for over 20 years and they still sell the same machines today.

Bitsyncmaster

01-21-2020, 05:14 PM

Here are a couple photos of the Gear ball before machining. I have poured the white epoxy into the top box which fills the "decal" and gives me something strong to clamp to in my lathe. I also glued in the insert which is offset 15 degrees. Those little nubs on the bottom is what holds it on the 3D printer plate. Those are printed like that so it easily pops off the plate when done. Note this takes about 4.5 hours start to finish of print time (some of that time is the printer heat up and filling the print tank).

The formlabs 3D software that converts the STL file into the printer files works nice to check your design. You can look at each slice that will print to verify things are good.

I love the clear epoxy which I mix a color (white) into for the decal fill. That stuff is very thin so it fills the small lettering no problems. It also sets up very hard and cost about the same as my potting epoxy (T-88). Does not get bubbles in it either.

Bitsyncmaster

01-21-2020, 06:26 PM

For you guys that like machining. Here it is set up in my lathe and the half ball machined. I should get my blank tool in a few days so I can make that tool and machine the other half.

Bitsyncmaster

01-24-2020, 07:20 PM

I made my new tool holder to machine the other side of the ball and it worked very good.

I put the ball in my car without the 1/4" locking nut that is used to hold the ball in the correct orientation. To my surprise turning the ball gets tight because the leather boot seems to bind a little on the inset hole. I made the hole the same diameter and depth as the OEM ball. I guess that 1/4" thick nut held the ball higher and the leather boot did no bind. I may increase that "hole" diameter a little the next time I 3 D print any gear balls.

It still takes a lot of hours of work to make these gear balls. I may do a 3 D print of 4 gear balls and time the process to complete them. I can't spare to many hours building these because my other products are taking most of my time.

mr_maxime

01-29-2020, 03:39 PM

If anyone is willing to try printing. I've modeled a grill based on the original one. It's not exact but should be close.

I might try scanning the windshield washer bottle and reverse engineering that some day. Been scanning lots of work parts lately, but still working through full reverse engineering. The scanning software creates a mesh that can be closed and made watertight for direct 3D printing. Making a proper model from a scan is quite a bit more involved.

https://i.imgur.com/PCGxqdG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pXnKjbZ.jpg

Bitsyncmaster

01-31-2020, 07:03 AM

You should be able to get that to print smooth without the visible facets. What design software are you using?

There is a way to smooth the STL files before printing with this:

https://airwolf3d.com/3d-printer-support/encyclopedia/part-design/blender-smoothing-stl-files/

I have not been able to get it to work yet. I think this was with older blender software.

jamesrguk

02-01-2020, 05:54 AM

There is a way to smooth the STL files before printing with this:

https://airwolf3d.com/3d-printer-support/encyclopedia/part-design/blender-smoothing-stl-files/

I have not been able to get it to work yet. I think this was with older blender software.

I would split that in two halves add a couple of flanges to each half with holes in so it can be joined with a couple of M6 bolts and then print on its end with no support. This would require adding a 45 degree chamfer to the mounting holes for printing purposes to reduce the overhang, but they are out of site when fitted anyway (see my crude MS paint mock up as I'm not at my design computer at the moment)

62557

I do a lot of printing of classic car parts (it's almost my full time job) and I'm printing an item similar size for DeLoreanGo at the moment, I use Fusion360 but I'm producing a models specifically for 3D printing so often the CAD drawings look quite different to what the non-3D printer person would expect.

J

Bitsyncmaster

02-02-2020, 01:46 PM

There is a way to smooth the STL files before printing with this:

https://airwolf3d.com/3d-printer-support/encyclopedia/part-design/blender-smoothing-stl-files/

I have not been able to get it to work yet. I think this was with older blender software.

I was able to do this smoothing. The subdivide was just under another tool. All I did was subdivide two times and the STL file grew from 677 Kb to 10.6 Mb. I pulled the new STL into the formlabs preform and it looked the same as the original STL on the screen. So maybe it would print smoother and it's just the preform software that has limited capabilities.

I did pull the new STL into meshmixer and it did look a little smoother but it also showed it smoothed out the surface of the decal (numbers and gear pattern).

With blender software it really showed the ball with no facets.

Anyway the fact it's not smooth makes no difference to me since I machine it round anyway. It has to be machined to bring the poured white epoxy smooth to the ball surface. I also have to machine any support structure off the other side of the ball.

Bitsyncmaster

02-10-2020, 04:09 PM

I was testing another white dye for the epoxy. I don't like the new dye because it has some different liquid in it that separates and I can see a few white spots that look like the a powder was not made the same size throughout.

Anyway I made the white color more white but I'm undecided if the more transparent white color is better. I kind of like the less contrast with the old white.

Actually any color can be done with the decal.

Photo of old white and new white.

Josh

02-10-2020, 04:15 PM

If anyone is willing to try printing. I've modeled a grill based on the original one. It's not exact but should be close.

I might try scanning the windshield washer bottle and reverse engineering that some day. Been scanning lots of work parts lately, but still working through full reverse engineering. The scanning software creates a mesh that can be closed and made watertight for direct 3D printing. Making a proper model from a scan is quite a bit more involved.

I am interested in some scans of delorean parts:

5spd Bellhousing
LCA
steering Knuckle
Washer bottle

I dont really have the equipment nor do I want to. let me know if you would be interested in doing these scans and how much it would cost.

mr_maxime

02-10-2020, 06:37 PM

I am interested in some scans of delorean parts:

5spd Bellhousing
LCA
steering Knuckle
Washer bottle

I dont really have the equipment nor do I want to. let me know if you would be interested in doing these scans and how much it would cost.

I can do everything but the bellhousing since I don't have one. I was already planning on scanning the rest. Because they're company resources, I can't actually charge for it.

Fiy, the scanners output is stl so that aspect is not very useful unless you're 3d printing. It's not a problem with plastic parts, but i will have to pretty much fully reverse engineer the LCA and steering knuckle in solidworks from the scan.

Edit: To clarify, I had already asked about drawing parts and having them made. Company policy dictates that all drawings made with company resources are company property. However, as long as its on my own time and doesn't cost the company any extra money, I can draw anything I want but can't make it into a business. Basically should be OK to upload an stl of the grill or washer bottle and have them free for personal use.

jamesrguk

02-12-2020, 08:08 AM

Front Grill...
62671
I modelled this up yesterday evening and printed one off at 30% size last night. It looked good so I will be printing full size on Friday (just for fun)

I'm going to a DeLorean meet in about a months time and thought I might paint it up, put the logo on, fit it to my car and see if anyone notices/comments over the course of the weekend. It'll be parked next to numerous other DeLoreans so should be a good test.

I don't actually need one but I love doing big prints and finishing them to the point that no one can tell it's printed.

l printed a new glove box insert earlier in the week...

62670

Sorry I don't have many friends who are into 3D printing so thought I'd share here...

Josh

02-12-2020, 10:00 AM

I can do everything but the bellhousing since I don't have one. I was already planning on scanning the rest. Because they're company resources, I can't actually charge for it.

Fiy, the scanners output is stl so that aspect is not very useful unless you're 3d printing. It's not a problem with plastic parts, but i will have to pretty much fully reverse engineer the LCA and steering knuckle in solidworks from the scan.

Edit: To clarify, I had already asked about drawing parts and having them made. Company policy dictates that all drawings made with company resources are company property. However, as long as its on my own time and doesn't cost the company any extra money, I can draw anything I want but can't make it into a business. Basically should be OK to upload an stl of the grill or washer bottle and have them free for personal use.

I understand a scanned STL is not a solid part, even further from a prepared solid part. I work with CAD daily :)

megamanex

02-13-2020, 11:27 AM

jamesrguk

02-13-2020, 06:13 PM

You need to bevel the ends of that grill. It isn't razor sharp like your model is showing and has a slight bevel on the edges.

To print something that large is very very expensive if done in something like resin.Yeah it's just the rendering makes it look sharper than it is (assuming it's my grill image your commenting on).

I've split it between two printers which I'm running quite large nozzels on so looks to be ~16-hours per half but as I have breif window where two were spare I thought I'd go for it and see what happens.

Large nozzle = lots of post print finishing but I rather enjoy that part.

At around 400mm tall per half despite adding a huge brim and slowing the print down the 'will it, won't it' fall over will be nail biting stuff.

It's just for fun, I'll probably tart it up and make a feature out of it on my garage wall.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

mr_maxime

02-14-2020, 05:27 PM

You need to bevel the ends of that grill. It isn't razor sharp like your model is showing and has a slight bevel on the edges.

To print something that large is very very expensive if done in something like resin.

Assuming you meant mine. I had it turned off in that screenshot I think. There is a small fillet on the part. I would get this done with MJF Nylon not resin.

mr_maxime

02-14-2020, 05:30 PM

I understand a scanned STL is not a solid part, even further from a prepared solid part. I work with CAD daily :)

I was pointing it out because not everyone would know that the reverse engineering isn't done in the scanning software.

jamesrguk

02-14-2020, 05:58 PM

jamesrguk

02-15-2020, 05:11 PM

62681

Just thought I'd pop this here as my full scale front grill finished printing this evening.

This is straight from the printer, no post print prep has been done.

James

megamanex

02-16-2020, 10:30 AM

I was talking about your grill! Fillets are important, for sure.

It looks great!

mr_maxime

02-17-2020, 08:39 AM

I was talking about your grill! Fillets are important, for sure.

It looks great!

I was playing around with the model and sometimes those features start going wonky so I suppress them. The grill has a slight curve on the downward slope, but I couldn't get it to work on my model the way I made it. The slats(?) are patterned off of one of the edges. The pattern quit working when that edge was curved.

mr_maxime

02-25-2020, 11:50 PM

I'd like to scan a binnacle if anyone has one available. I want to scan it without the foam and vinyl. That way anyone could print it have have it upholstered wherever they like.

jamesrguk

02-28-2020, 08:30 AM

I'd like to scan a binnacle if anyone has one available. I want to scan it without the foam and vinyl. That way anyone could print it have have it upholstered wherever they like.

I started drawing a binnacle up in CAD some time back, as it was my first delve into mesh modelling/sculpting, but I soon realised that hardly anyone is actually missing a binnacle and with the quality of the re-covering that can be done it didn't seem viable and as I had other more pressing projects I parked it.

But I would be very interested to hear what comes of your project.

James

megamanex

02-28-2020, 09:54 AM

jangell

02-28-2020, 10:12 AM

I have a perfect original binnacle on my car with no cracks or flaws. I haven’t had to do any dash work but if there is an easy way to get it out I can scan it up and make a 3D master.

I just hear it’s a bit of a huge pain to get it out of there.

You take out the knee pads, and then It’s four small nuts to release the binnacle. This basically requires laying on your back under the dash. Before you lift it too much you’ll have to disconnect the speedometer cable (taking the cable off the lambda counter first gives you more room to work) and the wiring harness edge connector, which can be tricky to get to. I’ve removed mine twice now, and it wasn’t that bad...

— Joe

mr_maxime

02-28-2020, 06:38 PM

I have a perfect original binnacle on my car with no cracks or flaws. I haven’t had to do any dash work but if there is an easy way to get it out I can scan it up and make a 3D master.

I just hear it’s a bit of a huge pain to get it out of there.

I don't want a perfect one. I want the base part which is then built up with foam and vinyl. People could print it out then have it covered. If i scan a covered one, then it would end up thicker once you put the vinyl on.

The plastic piece that goes around it would be good though. Mine was broken when it got recovered locally. I'm sure that piece is damaged way more often than the binnacle.

Bitsyncmaster

02-29-2020, 03:41 PM

Well my sales are getting to good. Last year my sales doubled and this year looks like it will double again. But I don't think I can keep up with building that many units. So I was thinking the most time consuming thing is potting the relays. So I was thinking maybe I can try to 3D print a cover for some of my relays. I'm getting good at design layout and it only took me about one hour to finish my first test file and another two hours to print it. This test print was to test how much my 3D print will flex to make the latching design which locks the boards into the cover.

Well this first print is much to tight to press the circuit board over the little latches I designed.

I also will need to test the strength. I don't want the cover to pull off when your pulling the relay out of the socket.

I also need to test the high current relays for heat build up. This 3D material is a pretty good heat insulator so I have to test heat build up.

Not sure if this will become a usable solution to speed up my build times. But unless my sales slow down, I know I will clean out my inventory way before I can rebuild it.

megamanex

03-01-2020, 12:30 AM

I for one appreciate it since I just ordered a whole bunch of those parts from you. :)

Bitsyncmaster

03-01-2020, 08:53 AM

My second test print the board pressed in no problem. I was not thinking about the flex above the board and on the first print had that area to thick. Of course this will require new smaller boards to compensate for the thickness of the cover. A big problem is that one pin closest to the socket mounting tab. The OEM sockets don't give much clearance there. I replaced all my sockets with new ones that moved the relays further away from the mounting side. I liked the idea of higher temperature rated sockets and the better placement. These new socket mount the same as OEM but the slides are not compatible with OEM sockets so it's all or nothing for replacement.

All except my hot start relay use two circuit boards. The hot start with only 3 pins gave me enough room to place the components on one side of the one circuit board. So I can 3D print my covers to latch on the top circuit board and the lower circuit board can have a very thin thickness where it sits inside the cover.

Now I will put 5 new pins into a socket and see if the case has any damage pulling the relay out. New pins are very tight the first time they are used. You really need a lot of force to press in the relay the first time.

Bitsyncmaster

03-02-2020, 07:18 PM

Did another test print this time using 1 mm thick walls on the cover. It is still very strong and does flex quite a bit with that thickness. I'm going to do some more testing in doing a complete cover for the Lambda relay I have now. I still can't use the current circuit boards because the cover would not let it clear the back of the OEM relay sockets. The lambda relay is very low current so heating will not be a problem.

I will need to buy some yellow resin after I make new circuit boards. With my formlabs printer you use a separate resin tray for each color resin. You don't empty and clean the tray. You just store them without tipping the tray that is full of resin.

The covers won't be removable. You would just break the cover and replace it if you needed to fix something inside.

Bitsyncmaster

03-04-2020, 08:17 AM

Well I printed it flipped so the surface would not need any sanding. So I put supports on the bottom edge and inside supports to the top. That worked to keep the outside clean and smooth but the side walls bowed because they did not have the support of the top to keep them straight.

So it's back to the drawing board. The problem is that one electrical pin that is already very close to the edge. That limits the thickness of the wall on that side. The 3D printed material flexes a little but when you bend it to much it will shatter. Not like a PVC that will not shatter.

I wonder what it takes to 3D print a mold and use some type of injection molding.

Jason

03-04-2020, 09:30 AM

jamesrguk

03-05-2020, 10:50 AM

Bitsyncmaster

03-05-2020, 02:13 PM

Do you mind me asking what material you are printing with?

Just curious.

Edit...

Just taken a closer look, I'm guessing a resin of some kind.

J

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

https://sourcegraphics.com/supplies/3d/formlabs/black-resin/?utm_term=&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=5570806960&hsa_cam=1598449138&hsa_grp=60721833736&hsa_ad=303198577426&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=pla-293946777986&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&utm_term=&utm_campaign=Formlabs+Supplies&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=5570806960&hsa_cam=1598449138&hsa_grp=60721833736&hsa_ad=303198577426&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=pla-293946777986&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=CjwKCAiA44LzBRB-EiwA-jJipOGqfDFRQaLktRKyH5S9QTHDLRgWtQP0uh1rrJCthX43Q1b 1wAyctBoCCyQQAvD_BwE

Bitsyncmaster

03-07-2020, 06:35 PM

I'm still thinking about relay covers. I looked into injection molded covers but would need to get real CAD software to send the design for a quote. Also looking at requirements for injection molding and there are a lot of design requirements to improve the design and reduce cost.

There is a home injection molding machine priced around $5000 but even if I went that way I don't think it would work my design. My design would require a higher pressure because the part has such thin walls.

So for now I sticking with potting of my relays. I did 3D print a simple tool to hold the circuit boards while I join them soldering the standoff jumpers.

Bitsyncmaster

03-09-2020, 07:11 PM

Take a look at the Siraya Tech Tenacious and Blu resins. They're stronger and more flexible than the standard ones. I've done some printing with Tenacious and it's help up for me in some mechanical applications where the normal stuff would fail right away.

Formlabs has other resins that are more flexible and less brittle. I also see other vendors even have flexible resins for making gaskets or tires for your model cars etc. I look forward to trying other resins for some projects. So far my gear ball and the tool I made the standard hard resins are the best choice for those jobs.

Bitsyncmaster

03-20-2020, 07:21 PM

Formlabs has a new resin that you can actually make some forms of springs in that you can bend it and it will return to original shape. I may buy this so I can play with it. I was reading up on the requirements for injection molded parts and it really gets complex making minor angles so the part ejects cleanly from the mold.

https://formlabs.com/store/form-2/materials/tough-1500-resin/

I also downloaded freeCAD and did some design work on it. It defiantly takes more time to learn than TinkerCAD but I like the idea of having "source" design files in my possession. And other cad packages can import the design. With TinkerCAD you can only save the .STL file to your devices.

Bitsyncmaster

03-27-2020, 07:30 PM

Well I tried that new resin. It is flexible but my test print was not a good choice. It looks like you need a lot more support. The bottom of my print pull off the supports during the print and some of the layers got pulled apart but that may because of the support failed. Cleaning after the print is a lot harder to do. Seem like the alcohol does not absorb the remaining resin at all. The part is very soft until post curing.

I will probably pour the resin back into the jug and clean the tank until I think of a project to try it again.

Bitsyncmaster

03-29-2020, 06:35 PM

I ran another test print with that new resin. I used larger supports but still lost a few during the print. So far I'm not happy using that new resin. I may try another resin someday.

Bitsyncmaster

05-02-2020, 08:13 AM

Well the covid has caused a shortage of isopropyl alcohol (IPA). You use IPA to wash the parts after you print them. The print is covered with liquid resin when you remove it. I ran out of my 4 gallon last order and now the only source is Ebay guys who have marked it up 3 to 4 times.

I also found out my printer updates have changed the size of my hex cutout about 1% smaller so I had to modify my print file for the gear ball since I last printed it.

I've been thinking of getting a "filament" type printer to play with. That type can't do the gear ball but would be able to do larger prints not needing the fine resolution of my liquid resin printer.

megamanex

05-02-2020, 10:39 AM

You can switch to TPM and not spend a fortune.

https://support.formlabs.com/s/article/Washing-prints-with-TPM?language=en_US

Bitsyncmaster

05-02-2020, 01:52 PM

You can switch to TPM and not spend a fortune.

https://support.formlabs.com/s/article/Washing-prints-with-TPM?language=en_US

Interesting. Does it work better than IPA? I don't think the IPA works that well. I use my flux cleaner as a final wash which works good but you can't keep that in the wash machine because it evaporates very quickly. Can you buy TPM locally?

megamanex

05-02-2020, 07:10 PM

It works quite a bit better and lasts longer without as much evaporation. It does need a rinse off in water after. I’m not sure where to source it locally.

megamanex

05-02-2020, 07:25 PM

https://forum.formlabs.com/t/alternate-wash-solution/25471/54

Bitsyncmaster

05-02-2020, 08:54 PM

I tried and can not find anyone to sell TPM except in small quantities for high dollar amounts. You need at least 2 gallons to replace the washer IPA.

megamanex

05-03-2020, 10:54 AM

Bitsyncmaster

05-03-2020, 01:00 PM

It's a bit expensive but it lasts about 4 times longer so when you do the math on the cost of the IPA it about evens out. Before the quarantine it was about $95 dollars for me to get 3 gallons of medical grade 99 percent isopropyl shipped.

I found a company that can ship IPA in a few weeks. I did pay $99 plus a lot for shipping (Hazmat) for 4 gallons last time. Now I paid $220 for 5 gallons ($70 of that is shipping). All of them have increased the price because of the demand.

Where do you buy the TPM?

megamanex

05-03-2020, 01:30 PM

I get the TPM in bulk so it costs me around $660 for a whole setup. I have to call the supplier direct.

DPM is a cheaper, easier available alternative but it leaves behind a cloudiness that gasses out over time.

It's about $34 a gallon.

https://www.chemworld.com/DiPropylene-Glycol-Gallon-p/DPG-64z.htm?keyword_session_id=vt~adwords%7Ckt~%7Cmt~% 7Cta~70885151173&_vsrefdom=wordstream&gclid=Cj0KCQjw17n1BRDEARIsAFDHFezGYxndhfzGG8oql-hBpN8DKDf3Tp08Xrn3oK4lmWBFnR-0hQoI9GoaAqvaEALw_wcB

Bitsyncmaster

01-13-2021, 10:21 AM

jamesrguk

01-15-2021, 11:56 AM

I'm working on printing an HVAC faceplate with improved less light bleeding shields. My Formlabs printer can only print flat to 5.4" and I wanted to print flat so the back side has no supports. I can sand off the flat front side. What I have done so far is print a 5.2" section so I can adjust the model and print another test print. The back side does come out nice without supports using clear resin.

I was thinking of getting a new filament printer but I have no clue as to how they work and what models are the best.

The Formlabs has a larger printer but it's over $10,000. I may be able to send my 3D file to some companies that do that work but I like to make adjustments all the time for perfection.

So what are some good filament printers I should look at?

Dave,

Depending on what you need to do I use all Creality FDM hardware for my small business, they're pretty solid in terms of build quality and with a few tweaks can be very reliable and good value for money in my opinion, also lots of online support as they're very popular.

I print quite a lot of big parts for which I run larger nozzles (0.6 and 0.8) but also the odd small job and the quality can be very good indeed.

To give you an idea I run the following:

1 x Ender 3 (build volume 300mm x 300mm x 400mm)
3 x CR10s Pros (build volume 300mm x 300mm x 400mm)
1 x CR10s Max (build Volume 400mm x 400mm x 450mm)

I only really print in PETG and ABS which are pretty tough.

This HVAC control Knob was one of my smaller projects for a client and with a quick sand and a blast of paint a good level of finish can be achieved:
65328

Lots of people have their favourites but Creality's what I know quite well.

J

Bitsyncmaster

01-15-2021, 12:58 PM

Thanks. I have been looking at the many available printers. I see some have heated plates, heated enclosures, flex plates, and a lot of new stuff I have to read up on.

I was wondering if two color units can print the two colors at the same time and the limitation. I would like to print the HVAC with clear and black.

jangell

01-15-2021, 01:33 PM

I have a Creality Ender 3 Pro, purely for hobby use. I kludged together an IKEA Lack enclosure for mine so that I could more easily print ABS (the enclosure traps heat, which helps reduce warping with ABS prints). Details can be found here: http://www.tmproductions.com/projects-blog/2019/11/24/building-an-ikea-lack-enclosure-for-the-ender-3-pro

I'm starting to play with PTEG, and if it works well enough I might just move over to it entirely, since it appears to have similar enough qualities to ABS for automotive use.

A nice thing about the Ender 3 is that it is very affordable, and very easy to get parts for. At one point my tensioner on the feed portion broke, and I was able to get a metal replacement on Amazon for $10. I also got a glass bed for mine for better heating uniformity, which helps with ABS (or so I'm told).

A slight annoyance with the Ender 3 is that it doesn't do bed auto-leveling. There are add-ons you can get for that, after which you have to update the firmware. I haven't actually done this yet. I usually onlu fix the bed leveling after one of my prints screws up, but it should probably be done more regularly than that.

So far I've only printed with the stock nozzle for any size print, although I probably should try using larger nozzles for large prints. Most of what I print is functional instead of aesthetic, so it seems worth it. It honestly just never occurred to me to look into using larger nozzles until James mentioned it.

Here's a few of the things I've printed:

An IR remote for the A/V receiver on my desk. The knob is metal, but the base is printed, sanded, and coated with aluminum spray paint. It's surprising just how close the paint matches the metal knob.
65329

Mounts for smart heating registers, which are driven by an ESP8266 and a hobby servo.
65330

A carrier for the MegaSquirt so I didn't have to keep unscrewing it and its cables when I wanted to tinker with it on the bench.
65331

A nut carrier for my early VIN car where the nuts for the transmission linkage bracket aren't welded to the frame. This made it much easier to get the bolts in. The first version held two M6 captive nuts; this later version uses heat-press inserts that are much more reliable (you just push them in with a soldering iron and a special tip).
65332

A three-part louver striker/hook (left, right and bottom, with a metal pin after my plastic one wasn't strong enough).
65333

A terminal strip for the passenger side tail light wiring, which had just become a mess over the years with various things patched into it.
65334

I think that's the bulk of the more interesting stuff. I've had the printer for a year and a half, and it's been quite handy for these sorts of things.

-- Joe

Bitsyncmaster

01-16-2021, 10:57 AM

After printing 5 test prints flat (cut to the left side 5.2 inches), I printed one full size face plate. I had to position the part at a 51 deg angle to get it to fit. My printer can do much higher prints than wide. As you can see it has to add a lot of support structure where as printing flat it needs none. This print took 17 hours with 100 micro layers. My printer can do 50 and 25 micro layer but that would take 2 and 4 times as long to print. I even got some supports on the inside of the face plate. The outside supports are easy to remove and easy to sand that surface flat.

I had an idea that may give a better optical face plate. I could print it in black with large areas left open. Then pour clean epoxy into those openings. That would eliminate all light bleed to perfection.

Bitsyncmaster

01-19-2021, 10:58 AM

Here is the finished 3D print. This print had to be printed at a 51 degree tilt to fit in my form 3 printer. So it took 17 hours to print. I still want to try it on a filament printer so I can print it flat and eliminate all the support structure my printer had to use. It does fit in the car but I would move the standoffs a little for perfection. I also did not print the curved sides (tinker CAD) does not let me do free hand drawing but this 3D stuff sands real easy on my bench disk sander. I sanded it after installing the decal so easy to do. I put a bottom light block on mine and don't know why the stock faceplate did not do that. Maybe it was to help keep the plastic cooler.

I don't plan to sell these so if you want to try to print it I can send you the .stl or .obj file. I would like to see the result on another printer. This will only work with my REV C HVAC LED board. The REV B would need a little filing on that bottom light block to clear the two ICs I moved on the REV C.

I will paint the sides and test for light bleed. I was shipping black foam for the sides but looking closely at the fit in the car it seems you don't need that foam.

Bitsyncmaster

01-20-2021, 04:32 PM

jamesrguk

01-25-2021, 12:50 PM

Today I painted the sides and push button holes black. Painting with an artist paint brush does a lousy job since some areas are thin paint. Can't really do two coats either since the second coat just softens the the first coat. Not that it really matters much since this final result looks much better than the first one I built with a flat plastic sheet.

I still think the best result would be to 3D print one in black with cutouts to pour clear epoxy into or get a printer that can do two colors on one print. I still think I will buy a filament type 3D printer to play with so I'm waiting on trying the black print for when I get one of those.

Dave,

You can certainly get 2 colour FDM printers, sometimes duel extruders so one just takes over from the other, or you have a purge tower which prints to one side and you run two colours through the same nozzle. To be quite honest at the non-professional price point (lets say sub £1000) I haven't really seen a really reliable system out of the box, however, depending slightly on the print you may be able to use 'pause at height' and change the filament colour, and you can use z-hop' (in some circumstances) to lift the nozzle over printed parts and effectively print one file over the top of another, so there are ways to make it work.

You'll probably struggle to print things on an FDM printer as transparent as you can with resin printer though.

Heated bed is a must to print anything useful ABS, PETG etc... As for auto bed levelling I have it on 4 of my printers, but the one that give me the least hassle is my Ender 3 with manual leveling.

It's great fun, I get the impression that you're the kind of person who'll make it do want you want it to do through clever design.

James

Bitsyncmaster

01-25-2021, 01:09 PM

Dave,

You can certainly get 2 colour FDM printers, sometimes duel extruders so one just takes over from the other, or you have a purge tower which prints to one side and you run two colours through the same nozzle. To be quite honest at the non-professional price point (lets say sub £1000) I haven't really seen a really reliable system out of the box, however, depending slightly on the print you may be able to use 'pause at height' and change the filament colour, and you can use z-hop' (in some circumstances) to lift the nozzle over printed parts and effectively print one file over the top of another, so there are ways to make it work.

You'll probably struggle to print things on an FDM printer as transparent as you can with resin printer though.

Heated bed is a must to print anything useful ABS, PETG etc... As for auto bed levelling I have it on 4 of my printers, but the one that give me the least hassle is my Ender 3 with manual leveling.

It's great fun, I get the impression that you're the kind of person who'll make it do want you want it to do through clever design.

James

Thanks. I ordered the QIDI X-plus. Mostly chose this because it's one of the few that is trying to print with nylon carbon fiber. Probably won't work well with that stuff yet since it's to new. I do plan to try to print an HVAC in black and then pour in clear epoxy so clear printing won't be needed. I still suspect my gear ball with the fine printed decal on it will only work on my resin printer. The resin printer still can do the finest resolution of 25 microns in all three axis. I get 25 microns all the time in X and Y but I select 100 microns for layers to speed things up.

jamesrguk

01-28-2021, 11:49 AM

Thanks. I ordered the QIDI X-plus. Mostly chose this because it's one of the few that is trying to print with nylon carbon fiber. Probably won't work well with that stuff yet since it's to new. I do plan to try to print an HVAC in black and then pour in clear epoxy so clear printing won't be needed. I still suspect my gear ball with the fine printed decal on it will only work on my resin printer. The resin printer still can do the finest resolution of 25 microns in all three axis. I get 25 microns all the time in X and Y but I select 100 microns for layers to speed things up.

Nice, if printing with nylon you have to keep it as dry as a bone it absorbs atmospheric water like mad and then prints really badly. I didn't realise that when manufacturing with nylon, most items are deliberately left to absorb moisture before being packaged as this is apparently a crucial step in the manufacturing process and partly responsible for Nylon's durability (sorry went off topic).

You'll get better resolution from resin, but you can achieve good results from FDM (with a little post-print finishing) I deigned and printed these replacement knobs for an old Maserati and used textured paint got a very OEM look.

65552

It's great fun.

J

BladeBronson

01-28-2021, 09:38 PM

I love that in just a little over a year, this went from "I'm thinking about buying a 3D printer" to "check out this clear HVAC panel I designed and printed". Nice work, Dave!

Bitsyncmaster

02-01-2021, 07:00 PM

Got my QiDi X-plus printer today. Took a few hours to set things up. Did not get into all the slicer options so I used the default to print my HVAC panel that I printed on my resin printer. Says it will take 5 hours and 20 min. It's about one hour to finish printing but it looks to be doing a good job. I'm using the red PLA that came with the printer.

Interesting it looks like my slicer puts a honey comb inside solid objects. I will have to learn all the settings on the slicer as I play with the prints.

So I will also have to buy more filament. Right now just using PLA till I'm ready to print functional parts. So is all PLA created equal. I was going to buy more colors because my grandkids will all want to design and print things.

I did find a tough PLA filament that I ordered a spool to play with and test with. But it's very pricey.

Will post a photo of the finished print later.

Bitsyncmaster

02-02-2021, 07:55 AM

Well this print came out good in that it did not warp at all. I was getting really bad warping printing flat with my resin printer. It did not warp much when printing at an angle with the supports. Defiantly the resin printer gives you a smother surface and would not want to even try printing the gear ball on this filament printer.

This print defiantly stuck very hard to the base plate but since this base plate can flex, it came off with a little work. They say I can adjust the first layer a little further off from the base to have it not stick so much.

Now I want to try the design with "pockets" where I want clear. I will then pour clear epoxy into those areas. I will use black tough PLA so no painting necessary to stop light bleed. They say the tough PLA machines (sanding) better also.

I may have to go to ABS filament for higher temp resistance but I will continue playing with PLA for now.

FABombjoy

02-02-2021, 11:00 AM

I may have to go to ABS filament for higher temp resistance but I will continue playing with PLA for now.
I have a few large ABS parts in my car exposed to direct sunlight, installed in 2019. No warpage at all - so far so good!

ABS can warp like gangbusters during print depending on shape. I made a DIN adapter plate that's really thin at certain points and loved to turn in to a banana after about 1" of height.
Printing with a large 10mm skirt kept it stuck to the buildplate and was easy to trim off afterward.

Bitsyncmaster

02-02-2021, 03:48 PM

I was testing the strength of the standoff studs and one broke off easy but the other three seem OK. I've decided to just make the standoffs with holes and glue a metal stud in each hole.

Looks like a problem with my idea of pouring epoxy in for the clear. The center standoff for the screw is in the clear section around the selector knob. So I don't think I can get the strenth for that screw standoff unless I don't do the clear under the knob (which lets the knob lines light up if you sanded off that paint). It may look better with that area not clear but loose that knob line illumination. I might try it anyway.

I bought three decals anyway for my testing.

Bitsyncmaster

02-04-2021, 11:09 AM

Learning about this new printer. I thought setting 100% infill would stop it leaving air space inside the print, but it did not. What I think works is to set the minimum infill area to a very large number. The infill would produce very strange walls that seemed to pull off of the infill pattern. With my part producing, I do want a sold print.

This printer is slower than my resin printer. Even using 200 micron layers for the filament printer my resin printer at 100 micron layers would be a little faster. But with the resin printer you need to wash and post set the print. Don't know why the filament printer outlines the section and then fills it at 45 degree angles which alternate on the next lay. The resin printer prints straight from the left side to the right on each layer. With resin you can not have hollow insides like the infill with filament. That would leave liquid resin inside the part.

Cost is less with filament from $20 to $70 a kilo. Resin is $150 a kilo. I did order some $70 clear filament just to see what it does with the HVAC print.

Bitsyncmaster

02-04-2021, 04:33 PM

Bitsyncmaster

02-05-2021, 05:29 AM

Well I still have a problem printing the HVAC. Looks like the first layer prints good at 24 mm/sec then it prints at 48 mm/sec still looking pretty good then it starts lousy printing of layers at 60 to 100 mm/sec.

I printed a small test block and it printed nice on all layers so it seems my slicer is changing something when the print is large.

Well I figured it out. I had to select expert options with my slicer and set the minimum area to use infill to a very large number (100,000 mm2). I answered my own question when it worked on my small test print but not on the large one. The slicer does let you look at each layer to find what happens.

I don't know why the slicers don't offer "turn off infill". I guess they think most users are just printing art objects.

The stock HVAC face plate has the three warning lights open to the face. They did that so you they could paint those locations to eliminate light bleed to the adjacent warning light. The clear plastic face plate will "light pipe" the light throughout the front face of the plastic. That is why I wanted to print the faceplate in black and fill cutouts with clear epoxy of the light locations. For those cutouts with a clear print, I would have to paint it before filling with clear epoxy so I don't think the epoxy would stick that good on the paint.

Bitsyncmaster

02-06-2021, 02:17 PM

Learning how to get a good print. What I finally did was cut a one inch square of where my HVAC print was having problems. Then I could modify the options in the print slicer. The options are so many and the terms are "Greek" to me so it was just experimenting and doing that small test print.

So turning off the infill which fills the inside of the print with a honey comb structure which prints faster and uses less filament. That was setting the minimum area for infill to a very large number so it would not infill anything on my print.

Then I had a print which stuck to much to the print bed. My printer has a flexible magnetic plate with a "coarse coating on one side". That stuck print damaged a small area of that coating. All I needed to do was change the speed it printed the first layer from 24 mm/s to 30 mm/s so the first layer does not stick so much.

Then the last problem was the hardest to find a fix. The four standoffs on the corners of the HVAC would not print solid but the center standoff was fine. Well the corner standoffs are mixed into the sides of the print and when it would print the sides it moved over to fill the standoff and it could not fill it. That problem was fixed by turning off coasting. I guess coasting shuts off the filament feed but since the standoff was so close to the point it turned off that it could not start again in time to start filling the standoff.

Now I'm almost ready to try the clear filament print when that order arrives. I also ordered 5 new magnetic base plates but those were only available from overseas.

So if you want to get into 3D printing it may be better to get a US made inexpensive system to learn on. I do like the flexible base plate and heated base plate on my $800 printer. My printer also included a higher temp print head which will print carbon fiber nylon. I have yet to think about playing with that.

Bitsyncmaster

02-07-2021, 08:25 AM

Got some black pro tough PLA from Matterhackers. Ran my test print and it worked nice. This stuff runs at 210 C and 60 C bed where as the PLA that came with my unit runs at 190 C and 50 C bed.

Only thing I noticed so far is the old PLA would drip out of the print head as it warmed up and the new tough stuff does not drip.

When I get my clear PLA my plan is to print the HVAC and install a decal. Then I will test it in my test oven. I will screw the center standoff to a metal plate like it does in the car and run it up to 60 C (which should be the max it will seen in the car).

megamanex

02-07-2021, 02:34 PM

Bitsyncmaster

02-07-2021, 02:53 PM

Don't use PLA for inside a car with heat Dave. Use something that has a high heat deflection point like PETG. PLA will start to melt and debond. You may be okay but longevity is a potential issue with it. You may be fine in the short term but in a few years it could fall apart. I've got resin parts that are 15 years old that are still going strong.

There is no mechanical needs for the HVAC. Just my concern is the bond between the decal and faceplate. I do plan to try PETG and ABS to play with. What do you think the max temp inside the cabin can hit?

megamanex

02-07-2021, 10:50 PM

In California before I tinted the windows it hit about 118 or so in the summer one day which is right on the line for PLA.

Bitsyncmaster

02-08-2021, 10:23 AM

In California before I tinted the windows it hit about 118 or so in the summer one day which is right on the line for PLA.

Thanks. I plan to test to 140 F or above.

Bitsyncmaster

02-10-2021, 03:53 PM

Ran into another problem. My 4 corner standoffs, the top 2 were shifted to the right. Checked my design a 100 times and then thought to use a square to check the print. The print is not printing at 90 degrees to the X and Y. Now is this a problem with the printer or the slicer? The printer hardware must be good but the software may be at fault.

That error shifted about 0.03" the top standoffs. You would never know this when just printing display art.

Bitsyncmaster

02-10-2021, 05:00 PM

I did get that clear filament and printed an HVAC panel. Only real problem was that 0.71 deg offset from square so the two standoffs are offset to much. I'm not sure if the clear will block the light much. It's not like the resin print in clear which can be as clear as glass if you sand and polish both sides.

Bitsyncmaster

02-17-2021, 05:59 PM

Well I'm going with the idea to print the HVAC in black and have made cutouts for the decal illumination areas. It would probably work without filling those cutouts with clear epoxy. The stock face plate left the indicator lights cutout.

This is done with red cheap PLA which takes about 8 hours to print. When I'm done with adjusting this design I may just print it on my FORM3 resin printer so it won't be affected by heat. I could also try ABS on the filament printer which is better than PLA for heat.

Bitsyncmaster

02-18-2021, 09:15 AM

Trying to get something engineered so I can place the decal exactly in the correct position. I can only think of using the two push button holes for alignment. The holes in the decal are 1.420" so I think I will turn two cylinders with a lip to hold the decal a little off the table, then it guides the faceplate with those holes. I will have to sand the faceplate holes a little since the filament print is not as perfect (smooth edge) as the resin print.

These decals can not be lifted once it touches the faceplate. If you try to the decal will be trashed.

Bitsyncmaster

02-21-2021, 02:43 PM

Alignment cylinders worked out perfect. These are 1.416" dia. which makes it snug on the DMCH decal. My printed faceplate I made the holes 0.010 smaller so I could sand them on my oscillating drum sander for a snug fit. It worked out perfect installing the decal.

I need to make the 4 guide pins on the corners. I decided to glue in steel pins rather than print them for strength.

I could not wait to test it with my LED board just to see if it showed the LED dots without pouring clear epoxy into the cutouts.

Guess what. :cowboy::cheers::hippo::rock_on:

Bitsyncmaster

02-21-2021, 04:59 PM

So what kind of plastic do you think the OEM faceplate was made of? I just ordered some ABS filament to try another HVAC face plate made with that. ABS works to higher temps than PLA.

Bitsyncmaster

02-22-2021, 08:25 AM

Like always the photo just can not get the true colors of LEDs. I do see I need to fix the small green dot above and to the right of "MAX". I also want to look into covering the two push button switches over the ends to reduce light bleed on the walls of the push button holes. My current design is the same as the stock face plate on those push button holes.

Bitsyncmaster

09-14-2023, 05:01 PM

jangell

09-14-2023, 05:20 PM

I don't remember if it's in this thread already, but I started using Fusion 360 for 3D printed parts. It's a proper CAD package intended for engineering, and is pretty powerful; I'm barely scratching the surface. I find it a little weird coming from a 3D graphics background, but it works quite well.

They have a 1 year trial, which you can renew for an additional two years (I'm about 8 months into my first year). After that it's like a $550/year subscription.

-- Joe

Bitsyncmaster

09-14-2023, 05:39 PM

jangell

09-14-2023, 05:46 PM

That is one most people use but I don't use it enough to justify the cost. Maybe 1 or 2 months a year max.

That's the problem I have too. But at the same time, I don't want to deal with trying fight with some less-than-intuitive free software when I can just build the thing quickly in Fusion 360. In the end, I'll probably wind up just paying the subscription. Too bad there isn't something like a $200/year "maker" version that doesn't include structural analysis, electrical design all and other stuff that you don't really need for hobby 3D printing.

I admit that the main reason I started playing with Fusion is because whenever I find a YouTube video of someone building something, it's in Fusion.

FreeCAD is another free CAD app, but I've never used it, so I can't speak to it. Then there's things like OpenSCAD, which is more a text editor with a 3D view attached, and you write code to create 3D objects. Interesting for certain kinds of models, I imagine, but kinda annoying if you just want to build a project box.

-- Joe

bytes311

09-14-2023, 05:47 PM

That is one most people use but I don't use it enough to justify the cost. Maybe 1 or 2 months a year max.

It is my understanding that you renew your subscription every three years - for hobbyists it remains free. Of course they can change the terms any time so it's good to have a backup plan.

mike123

09-14-2023, 06:06 PM

I'm looking for a CAD design software just to do "engineered parts". I don't want something that can animate or do modeling of cartoon charterers. Yes I know of many but you have to pay a large monthly fee.

I use TinkerCAD which does what I want but it does not let me save a source file on my computer.

What do you mean by "save a source file"? I use TinkerCAD and save .STL files to my computer, and ultimately save the "sliced" file to a USB memory stick and then plug it into my 3D printer.

Regarding your materials question from a few years ago, I have found ASA to be a great material. Supposedly it has the heat resistance of ABS, but also some added UV resistance. (I am doing all of this to print time machine parts, so UV resistance is important to me). I test out my files in PLA on my printer, and when I have them perfect, I use craftcloud3d.com to get them printed in ASA and shipped to me. The quality of print (filament diameter) varies by bidder and is not specified on the craftcloud site, but based on my experience:

3D Pros - not good
GAGAT AM - totally acceptable and willing to do some sizable (12" x 12" x 8") prints
3D for Me - outstanding quality

jangell

09-14-2023, 06:11 PM

It is my understanding that you renew your subscription every three years - for hobbyists it remains free. Of course they can change the terms any time so it's good to have a backup plan.

I think you're right. I can't see anything specific about the "trail", as I was calling it, expiring. Not sure why I thought that. I appear to be running the "personal use" version.

I found two useful documents about it:
- What "personal use" means: https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Fusion-360-Free-License-Changes.html
- Do I qualify for "personal use": https://www.autodesk.com/support/technical/article/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Do-I-qualify-for-free-use-of-Fusion-360.html

For Dave:
- They're a limit of 10 "editable" documents at once. This isn't really a limit -- you can flag any document as "editable" or not at any time. You're not limited to only having 10 documents total, and I've never needed more than 1 or 2 at a time.
- It does do cloud storage, but you can export as an F3D file, which is a complete Fusion 360 file, which you can then re-import in the future. I haven't done this before, but I have loaded such models into Fusion from other sources.

-- Joe

Bitsyncmaster

09-14-2023, 06:55 PM

What do you mean by "save a source file"? I use TinkerCAD and save .STL files to my computer, and ultimately save the "sliced" file to a USB memory stick and then plug it into my 3D printer.

You can't make design changes to a .STL file so it is not a source file.

mike123

09-14-2023, 09:24 PM

You can't make design changes to a .STL file so it is not a source file.

Ahh, got it. I just use what I build on their website as my "source file". Everything I make is cosmetic though, so it's pretty low-stakes and just for fun.

FABombjoy

09-15-2023, 08:54 AM

FreeCAD is an option. I just used it (along with the sheet metal plugin) to design a custom radiator fan shroud.

Its not as point-and-click as fusion/tinkercad but has far more powerful features. And the price is right.

Bitsyncmaster

09-17-2023, 08:36 PM

TinkerCAD now lets you export to Fusion360. I tried it with my HVAC faceplate and it worked. I can now view it on Fusion360 and maybe edit it. I could export it to a step file but my design did not put the necessary tapers needed for injection molding.

Bitsyncmaster

09-20-2023, 06:55 AM

I just did an export from Fusion360 of the same HVAC face plate from TinkerCAD and the .stl file is 562 Kbytes. The .stl from TinkerCAD is 437 Kbytes. I wonder why the size difference. I may have to run a 3D print to see if anything changed.

Is an export of the .f3d the source file. Not sure if any other CAD software can import that file type.

jangell

09-20-2023, 07:01 AM

It?s probably just small differences in how the parametric surface is meshed into polygons by the different algorithms implemented in each application. They?re likely functionally identical if you compare the meshes in your slicer or a 3D object viewer.

? Joe

Bitsyncmaster

09-29-2023, 01:49 PM

I just saw this larger 3D resin printer and it looks like it would print my HVAC face plate flat. Not only would that speed up the print but it should print without any supports so very little extra finishing work. When I print a large flat surface on my current printer I usually make up a matrix of tiny squares about a 1/4" inch high and print it on that matrix. That way it just pops off the built plate really easy. I'm not sure if printing flat would warp any though. With resin printers you get the warp, if any, in post curing.

If anyone has one of these or is going to buy one, I can send you my .STL file to try. I may end up buying one someday if nobody else gets one. My FORMLABs printer uses a laser to cure the resin and has much finer resolution but for the HVAC I really don't need that.

https://uniformation3d.com/products/uniformation-gktwo-10-3-8k-resin-printer