Carb manifold

[rollingzep]

Any way I can get in touch with mr bill Robertson to make me an intake or does anyone have any leads on acquiring a carb manifold? Thanks in advance

[David T]

He hasn't been heard from for a while. Maybe you can find a used one that someone wants to sell. Many of the people that did convert to a carburetor were not entirely happy with the conversion. The carburetor settings were never optimized to deal with warm-up, idling and stumbling issues. It also lowered the gas mileage. You are better served to try to get the K-Jet system the car came with originally, running. Besides preserving the originality of the car, it is better for resale value. Probably also cheaper if you have the major components. If you do find an owner that wants to convert back to K-Jet maybe you can do a swap. Put an ad in the Wanted section.

[Rich_NYS]

Lol....no offense intended David, but I have to ask: where are you getting this info, brah? I think you're correct about the gas mileage & maybe resale, but the other stuff just doesn't jive with what I've seen over the years.

For the guy looking: Bill can be found on DeLorean Technical Help and DeLorean Restoration Projects (on Facebook,) and he has several friends here and on Facebook who can reach him. I don't think he's still making manifolds, but he offers a lot of help online for owners who acquire a manifold. I recently saw him helping a guy online who is doing an awesome complete restoration, to include an engine rebuild w/carb conversion.



Carb manifolds appear to be in high demand; I have one I'll eventually be selling, I hear from owners a few times a year asking about it.



Sent from my LGL164VL using Tapatalk

[David T]

Bill used to be an active member of the DMA but he hasn't been active lately. He also used to be a member of this forum but he hasn't been around here either. Because I am not on Facebook I did not know he was over there. I am in touch with several owners who did the conversion and they seem to have trouble getting in touch with Bill . The info about the conversion I got from them and first-hand trying to get the carbs to run better. As for the demand for the manifolds, I wouldn't know but there seems to be at least one person who wants one! If there was any significant demand you would think a Delorean vendor would try to satisfy it.

[Michael]

He hasn't been heard from for a while. Maybe you can find a used one that someone wants to sell. Many of the people that did convert to a carburetor were not entirely happy with the conversion. The carburetor settings were never optimized to deal with warm-up, idling and stumbling issues. It also lowered the gas mileage. You are better served to try to get the K-Jet system the car came with originally, running. Besides preserving the originality of the car, it is better for resale value. Probably also cheaper if you have the major components. If you do find an owner that wants to convert back to K-Jet maybe you can do a swap. Put an ad in the Wanted section.

I watched Steve Rice's car crank right up cold(after sitting all night) and idle perfectly cold and hot. When you say "The carburetor settings were never optimized to deal with warm-up, idling and stumbling issues.." You do realize that carb equipped cars have done this very thing for DECADES right? What "settings" are you referring to anyway? Are "settings" non adjustable? The Renault Alpine PRV does quite well with a carb setup.

I (everyone) gets that you have a disdain for ANYTHING that deviates from the Old Testament Tech manual, but I have to admit, even though my own Kjet equipped car does fine, I am quite jealous of those who can replace their distributer cap in under 10 minutes and don't have 75psi of fuel coursing over the exhaust manifold in an overly complex fuel delivery system. His question is where can he find a carb manifold setup, not why he should stick with kjet.

Answer, Bill Robertson is still quite active on Facebook.

[David T]

A carb set-up can be adjusted well but few are and they have a problem adjusting to varied ambient temperature. The main reason I suggest Delorean owners keep their cars as original as possible is because then the car will retain it's highest value. That said there are lots of modifications which are desirable. Ideally they should be reversible. In the end it is each owner's decision what to do with their car. Most owners could not care less about ease of service and besides, how often do you change a distributor cap? Every modern car is fuel injected now and have high pressure fuel coursing around. Everyone went to fuel injection because it is much more easily controlled and can be much better optimized to a particular car. It is also much easier to meet emission standards. As for Bill's conversion, it is an answer in search of a problem. IMHO it is easier and cheaper to fix any problem in the K-Jet system than to ditch it and put a carburetor on. If you must remove the K-Jet system, instead of going "backwards" for a solution, go forwards and install a Mega Squirt or something like it. Putting a carb on has taken up some of the aspects of a religion with it's advocates and it's detractors. While it is simpler, it is not as good as the K-Jet. As for advice, anyone considering converting to a carb should understand the advantages and disadvantages BEFORE going ahead. I never said not to do it, I just caution against it for several reasons.

[SamHill]

Satisfied customer here.

[Michael]

Satisfied customer here.

Sorry, but the guru has proven that is impossible.

[SamHill]

Sorry, but the guru has proven that is impossible.

Dammit!

[louielouie2000]

I’ve ridden in and driven Bill’s car thousands of miles across a big chunk of the lower 48 (including New (including New Orleans to NYC & back), and his car has none of the problems Dave T described. It always started & idled perfectly regardless of weather, was a bit peppier than a K-Jet D, got comparable gas mileage (25mpg Highway), and his conversions are indeed designed to be fully reversible. Now Bill did things to his personal car like remove all wiring related to K-Jet, but obviously other owners can do their conversions how they wish.

There are other access benefits than just easy access to your ignition distributor. If you have a manual car, access to the clutch slave cylinder is much improved too (if you’ve ever replaced a clutch line, slave cylinder, or flushed/bled a clutch line with a K-Jet manifold you’ll know what a bear that is). Ease of access to the “valley of death” is about a thousand times easier, too. Just think of the awful times you’ve had to get into the valley to replace a water pump (DeLoreans seem to chew through those), replace coolant lines, chase down vacuum leaks & replace vacuum components under the valley, etc. Not to mention more routine maintenance like changing spark plugs is far easier without that bulky K-Jet manifold. Bill loves to share this story, but once we were at a gas station filling up his car, and he dropped a wrench into his valley beneath the intake. He was able to remove the manifold, retrieve the wrench, and replace the manifold before the gas pump kicked off. With stuff like block rot, easy access to cleaning the valley isn’t a bad thing.

The only bad thing I can say is that Bill definitely has an affinity for cheap carb fuel pumps. On our way to New Orleans one gave out on us (but he had a spare with him and swapped it in a gas station parking lot). That same trip I was riding in Farrar Hudkins car, and his carb fuel pump gave out too. But an owner can of course chose a higher quality pump than Bill uses and avoid this issue.

While I disagree with Dave T that carb-ing a DeLorean is a solution in search of a problem (K-jet’s issues are extremely well known & documented), I personally think EFI is the way to go if time, skill, and money is no object. But for ease of installation & operation, going carb is tough to beat.

[Rich_NYS]

I drove Bill's car the same day I drove a stock 5-speed, and my own stock 3-speed auto. I decided on that day I'd keep an open mind about converting if ever necessary.

The next car I bought was 4728, already converted to carb. I've driven it a few thousand miles so far, and have benefited several times from the ease of pulling the intake for the water pump, VOD, slave....etc. as mentioned.

David is probably right about resale if a lot of things are removed, but I keep seeing conversions trending upward so I'm expecting that to change. I kept 4728 as reversible as possible in case the new owner prefers originality.

Bill, Steve, and the other rednecks can fix most of the common issues with a trip to AutoZone and no flatbed.

Anybody got an intake to sell the OP?

Sent from my LGL164VL using Tapatalk

[opethmike]

You saw my car; carb on my LS swap. A properly setup carb is easy to do, and will run remarkably well.

[SamHill]

Hoping to keep myself out of mod crosshairs with no nanny nanny boo boo and just plain honesty.

The pros and cons from my perspective... and by now I should know.

CONS:
*The throttle gets a tad hung up in stop and go, but the slightest pat on the pedal puts it right.
*Less fuel efficient. And I mean, no more than a few miles a gallon.
*Resale. This point, as above, is arguable. Not only is every Delorean itself unique out of the gate, anyone's car's history for the past 30 years makes it unique, and variations on its particular condition are much more of a factor than a carb/KJet differential.

The first tiny airtex fuel pumps did burn out, as a matter of fact. I remedied this by putting a different --and beefier-- airtex pump in the engine compartment instead of in the gas tank, and it has been great for many years now.

PROS:
*Low psi fuel is better when your entire underbody is a confirmed accelerant. Therefore it is... drumroll... SAFER.
*My fuel system rebuild means a new carb that bolts on.
*Access as previously mentioned.


It works pretty damn well. The proof is in the pudding.

[David T]

You saw my car; carb on my LS swap. A properly setup carb is easy to do, and will run remarkably well.

I agree, a PROPERLY set up carb CAN run well. So can a homemade EFI. The problem I see too often is they are NOT properly set up. It takes a lot of work to get it right so you don't have to fiddle with it and it runs smoothly and reliably. Staying with the OEM set-up you have known ways to adjust it and known specs to set it to. If you need parts you can call up a Delorean vendor and they know what parts to send you when you need them. Deviate from "stock" and you are on your own. That means you must document all of the parts so you can order an air filter or a gasket or whatever. It also means you must adjust and try different jets and other adjustments till you get it to work. It is also assumed ALL of the other systems on the motor are running right so you only have to deal with the carb. Often that is not the case. Whenever I saw Bill he was always fiddling with his car, it was always a "work in progress". Most owners just want a car they can jump into and drive. A good running K-Jet system can do that.

[rollingzep]

I didn’t want this to become a resale value or a carb is better than k-jet. The reason I am even going different route cause I don’t have the k jet setup and I used to have a Delorean 20 years ago and always had issues with it so I would have done away with it anyway. But for now I just want to get car running without spending a fortune on it

[David T]

Now I understand why you are looking for a manifold. It could be easier if you can find someone who did convert to a carb and bought their K-Jet parts. You know you need more than *just* the manifold. Alternatively maybe you can find someone who wants to convert back to K-Jet and is willing to sell their carb conversion parts. I know of one owner that is thinking about doing that.

[Andrew]

I have been a DeLorean owner since 1998. During my first few years of DeLorean ownership, K-jet left me stranded at least a half a dozen times, if not more. I was never happy with either the performance or reliability of K-Jet. I had looked into carburation as early as 1998, but Ed Bernstein of DeLorean 1 told me that the Peugeot 604 / Renault Alpine carb manifold would not work on the DeLorean engine.

While I never sold my original DeLorean, I was out of the community for a few years due to college and law school etc. When I started getting back into the hobby in 2013, there had been a lot of development with regard to carburation. Turns out, Ed B. provided me with incorrect information...the Peugeot / Alpine manifold directly bolts to the DeLorean PRV! The carb options inspired me to buy and restore a second DeLorean. My goals were, a budget restoration with performance and reliability improvements.

By sheer luck, I found two complete Peugeot 604 fuel systems including the carbs, intake and air cleaner. To make a long story short, that was 5 years and quite a few miles ago. I loved the carbed DeLorean so much, that I converted my running K-Jet car to a Peugeot system two years later. I have never been stranded as a result of a carburetor related issue. Plus I sold my K-jet parts at a profit!

Keep an eye out for a Peugeot 604 / Renault Alpine manifold, they do come up for sale from time to time. While I run the dual Solex carb system on both of my DeLoreans, most carb conversions are running an Motorcraft 2100 or Autolite 2150 1.08 venturi carb.

I don't know if Bill is still supplying carb conversion kits. However, another option would be to contact John at JL Engineering. JL Engineering is a Renault Alpine tuning shop in the U.K. that modifies Renault Alpine A310 manifolds to accept a Holley 390 (a nice small 4bbl carb). Per John, the result is an improvement in performance and reliability over the stock Solex system.

Finally, a carb conversion also provides the option of utilizing a mechanical fuel pump as opposed to an electric pump. The mechanical pump bolts directly onto the back of the passenger side cylinder head, opposite the ignition distributor, and is driven by a camshaft lobe. The mechanical pumps are starting to get difficult to find, in fact, I sourced a spare one from Latvia on ebay.

If you have any questions, let me know!

Andrew
4194
5052

[rollingzep]

Andrew thank you for your post

Many years ago I also had a Delorean that left me stranded at the worst opportune times like on the middle of a bridge in Manhattan. Not fun let me tell you. I have a 308 that was kjet and the car was a pig. Changed it to EFI and wokenthe car up. Then I drove a friends webber equipped car and I should have went that route. But I like the simplicity of a carburetor not to mention the induction sound. And while efi is more faster responding the carbs are mikes ahead of the kjet where you push the gas and half hour later car responds. I’m being cheeky here

But in actuality I just want to get car on road and I am not computer savvy at all so I’m going the simpler route

[rollingzep]

And remember it only has value if you’re willing to sell. No sale no value. I have been owner of my cars since a teenager still have my first car I ever bought 69 pace car back in 1995 when it was considered just an old car. To me it’s still a 2500$ car that I paid for it. Not what it costs now. But if I go thinking it’ll be an investment I’ll never really enjoy it. But that’s for another thread another time

[opethmike]

I agree, a PROPERLY set up carb CAN run well. So can a homemade EFI. The problem I see too often is they are NOT properly set up. It takes a lot of work to get it right so you don't have to fiddle with it and it runs smoothly and reliably. Staying with the OEM set-up you have known ways to adjust it and known specs to set it to. If you need parts you can call up a Delorean vendor and they know what parts to send you when you need them. Deviate from "stock" and you are on your own. That means you must document all of the parts so you can order an air filter or a gasket or whatever. It also means you must adjust and try different jets and other adjustments till you get it to work. It is also assumed ALL of the other systems on the motor are running right so you only have to deal with the carb. Often that is not the case. Whenever I saw Bill he was always fiddling with his car, it was always a "work in progress". Most owners just want a car they can jump into and drive. A good running K-Jet system can do that.

A couple of things:

1. No, it does NOT take a lot of work to get a carb running properly. Took me literally 1 hour to get every single aspect of the carb on my LS working perfectly.
2. What exactly are you ADDING to this thread by babbling on and on about K-Jet this, EFI that when the thread creator was clearly looking for CARB information?
3. Is it possible for you to talk to people without talking down to them?

[Michael]

A couple of things:

1. No, it does NOT take a lot of work to get a carb running properly. Took me literally 1 hour to get every single aspect of the carb on my LS working perfectly.
2. What exactly are you ADDING to this thread by babbling on and on about K-Jet this, EFI that when the thread creator was clearly looking for CARB information?
3. Is it possible for you to talk to people without talking down to them?
But he sees this problem "to often" Mike. A whistleblower can not be silenced!

[Ron]

Hoping to keep myself out of mod crosshairs with no nanny nanny boo boo and just plain honesty. ...Dammit!