Hagerty 1-21-2020 = DeLorean confirms plans to produce “new” DMC-12s

[JETS 81 DMC]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/delorean-confirms-plans-to-produce-%E2%80%9Cnew%E2%80%9D-dmc-12s/ar-BBZbMPk?li=BBnb4R5#image=BBZbFCZ|1

[Jonathan]

Espy? They could have at least got the spelling of his name right.

[L3V3L1]

Donald Trump, killing all the nanny state regulations of past administration's. California's emission laws are next on the chopping block.

[Michael]

It's time for DMC to either put up or STFU. I'm sick of hearing this same crap over and over every 6 months. There is nothing wrong with a little hype, but the franchises have been hyping this for well over a decade. I'm sure the publicity is nice but at the end of the day there is a price for all that free advertising....you actually have to make the freaking product!

I would like to not hear one more word out of their mouths until the first car is built. They have exhausted both their supply of promotional baiting and teasing and my supply of good faith.

[dodint]

*gas station bro* Dude, is this one of those new ones?
"No, they're not making new ones yet."
*gas station bro* You're wrong, I saw it on buzzfeed!
"Yeah, you're right, it's a new one."

[WNY1983]

It's good to see some things never change. A new DeLorean! Figure about 2025. By the time the federal government does something. Then DMC Houston makes the "New DMC". It will be a while.
So let's all be happy with what DMC we own and can enjoy.
#15297

[Josh]

It's time for DMC to either put up or STFU. I'm sick of hearing this same crap over and over every 6 months. There is nothing wrong with a little hype, but the franchises have been hyping this for well over a decade. I'm sure the publicity is nice but at the end of the day there is a price for all that free advertising....you actually have to make the freaking product!

I would like to not hear one more word out of their mouths until the first car is built. They have exhausted both their supply of promotional baiting and teasing and my supply of good faith.

x2.

I also found the quote "the cars could get a 350-horsepower engine" particularly laughable.

[gluaisrothaii]

Donald Trump, killing all the nanny state regulations of past administration's. California's emission laws are next on the chopping block.

Because nobody needs to breathe clean air, correct? Having grown up in 80’s Ireland with uncatalyzed leaded petrol engines everywhere, with about a third of my classmates suffering from asthma, I’m somewhat glad to live in a state where clean air is valued higher than the relatively small expense of compliance.

Best,
KL

[Michael]

Because nobody needs to breathe clean air, correct? Having grown up in 80’s Ireland with uncatalyzed leaded petrol engines everywhere, with about a third of my classmates suffering from asthma, I’m somewhat glad to live in a state where clean air is valued higher than the relatively small expense of compliance.

Best,
KL

The air is always cleaner up in the ivory tower. Everyone listen up, the guy with the kjet DeLorean and private plane is going to lecture us on our carbon footprint.

[jackb]

It's time for DMC to either put up or STFU. I'm sick of hearing this same crap over and over every 6 months. There is nothing wrong with a little hype, but the franchises have been hyping this for well over a decade. I'm sure the publicity is nice but at the end of the day there is a price for all that free advertising....you actually have to make the freaking product!

I would like to not hear one more word out of their mouths until the first car is built. They have exhausted both their supply of promotional baiting and teasing and my supply of good faith.

New binnacles are right around the corner too! Lol
At least, that was the story for the first few years of my ownership. 10 years ago...

At least they’ve stopped with that. They just change publicity things every so often. I tell people DMCH is a great publicity company, that also happens to sell Delorean parts.

[gluaisrothaii]

The air is always cleaner up in the ivory tower. Everyone listen up, the guy with the kjet DeLorean and private plane is going to lecture us on our carbon footprint.

I did not mention carbon footprint. Clean air is a very different topic than carbon emissions. Catalyst or not makes no difference to carbon footprint, but having effective emissions controls makes a significant difference to air quality. And yes, private aircraft are carbon heavy, and the exhaust is not great- but there are far fewer aircraft than cars, and the exhaust output from road vehicles is a lot closer to where people breathe.

My kJet DeLorean aced its emissions test- came out cleaner than many newer vehicles- besides which it doesn't get driven all that much. Both my daily drivers are electric. That's not a lecture- it's just how I choose to spend my transportation dollars, and I'm happy to do it in an environmentally responsible and legally compliant fashion.



Best,
KL

[Michael]

Translation: Yes my airplane puts out a lot more garbage but I'm way up in the sky so it doesn't matter.

Best MM

[gluaisrothaii]

Translation: Yes my airplane puts out a lot more garbage but I'm way up in the sky so it doesn't matter.

Best MM

Nuances. There are far fewer aircraft than cars; those few aircraft are flown far fewer hours than cars are driven; so while the specific exhaust gas composition is worse than auto exhaust, the volume is orders of magnitude less, and the point of delivery allows for dilution to the point that environmental health is less impacted.

If cars were as scarce as airplanes, they wouldn't need catalysts. If airplanes were as common as cars, they would have catalysts by now. If California rolls back auto emissions regulations, we could be back to the smog filled days of the 70s. When people actually died because of air quality.

Incidentally- I get better than 20mpg cruising lean of peak at 130 knots. That's better than most SUVs and trucks traveling at highway speed. And I get where I'm going less than half the time.

If you want a debate on the merits or otherwise of automotive emissions controls, let's have at it. But please don't take the opportunity to attack my personal lifestyle as a strawman.

Best,
KL

[dn010]

Meanwhile, CA still has the highest amount of air pollution in the US.

[Michael]

I just wish I had an airplane so I could be as pure and holy.

62521

[SamHill]

My mansion is more efficient than Steve Rice’s outhouse.

[L3V3L1]

Because nobody needs to breathe clean air, correct? Having grown up in 80’s Ireland with uncatalyzed leaded petrol engines everywhere, with about a third of my classmates suffering from asthma, I’m somewhat glad to live in a state where clean air is valued higher than the relatively small expense of compliance.

Best,
KL
"Somewhat glad"? ����
Are you somewhat glad that it's warm enough for the homeless to set up camp outside your house?

[MrChocky]

"Somewhat glad"? ����
Are you somewhat glad that it's warm enough for the homeless to set up camp outside your house?

Well, since you ask. No. About 1/2 way between where he and I live is probably one of the larger camps in CA. It's everything you can imagine and more.
And yes, the air here is not good. That's without all the recent fires which have made things oh-so-much-worse.

CA has been criticized for many things over the years, much of it unjustified, but if you want to go on about pollution, homeless and cost of
living, have at it. I'd probably still choose the earthquakes over the East Coast storms though.

I happen to still agree about the emissions, but that's because I'm hippy.

[gluaisrothaii]

Meanwhile, CA still has the highest amount of air pollution in the US.

Parts of southern and central California certainly do, though much of that is due to agriculture and industry. Imagine how much worse that would be without automotive emissions controls. We are fortunate to have relatively clean air on the coast of Northern California, fire events notwithstanding.

Best,
KL

[ssdelorean]

Both my daily drivers are electric. . . . . , and I'm happy to do it in an environmentally responsible . . . fashion.

Best,
KL


Don't read up on how batteries are made and how much coal is burned to create electricity. You will cry. :-)

[gluaisrothaii]

Don't read up on how batteries are made and how much coal is burned to create electricity. You will cry. :-)

I won’t cry, for a few reasons. Consolidated power generation is far cleaner and more efficient than burning fossil fuels at distributed points of consumption; and wind and solar power form a large component of my power mix. Even if that were not the case, the same argument applies about location and dilution. I would rather see pollution in remote areas where few are affected, rather than in dense urban environments or along freeways where many are affected. Furthermore- I’m not leaking or burning contaminated oil, I don’t need oil/filter/spark plug changes, and regenerative braking produces no particulate matter

Then some math if I might. My 500e Fiat has a 24kwh battery. One gallon of gas contains about 34 kWh of energy. The Fiat’s range is 80 miles. Works out to be 114mpge. Not bad. Cheap commuter.

It takes about 6kwh to refine and deliver a gallon of gas. I could take that 6kwh directly and drive 20 miles on it, before the gallon of gas is even refined. By the time you’ve refined and delivered a 13gal tank of gas, you’ve used enough electrical power to move me 260 miles and I still haven’t burned any gas.

The battery, which I accept is complex to manufacture, is only made once for the car, rather than fossil fuels and lubricants which must be extracted continuously over the life of the vehicle. At end of life, the battery or individual cells may be reused for bulk grid support storage before eventual recycling.

Maybe none of this will matter to you because you’d probably much rather stick to your deeply held beliefs about oil and engines and power, or because you think people who drive electric cars are flowery liberals. Don’t get me wrong- internal combustion/piston power has its place. There’s no battery that could fly my airplane 1200 miles like the 68 gallons of 100 octane low lead I can carry. But as soon as there’s a battery that can do it I’ll be first in line. In the meantime I’ll enjoy driving electric- which costs almost nothing.

Best,
KL

[Michael]

Electric cars are the future and they will be superior in almost every way to gas and most diesel vehicles (maybe sooner than we think). I believe we can at least agree on that.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Electric cars are the future and they will be superior in almost every way to gas and most diesel vehicles (maybe sooner than we think). I believe we can at least agree on that.

I agree. But it will take some time to get the 600 miles on a tank with my Toyota Camry.

[Michael]

I agree. But it will take some time to get the 600 miles on a tank with my Toyota Camry.

I predict less than 24 months.

[Riley88]

I wanna hear opethmikes opinion on this emissions stuff

[Michael]

I'm actually glad the mods kinda let us hash this out. gluaisrothaii(yeah I copied and pasted that mess :) ) does raise a few points that I am forced to agree with. You can not deny the pollution these larger cities (especially those in other countries with no regulation oversight) have and it's downright thick! It's easy for me to come down on the far left (as well as the right) but I do see a need for some kind of action. It's just me being one of those constitutional progressive libertarians with a healthy dose of conservatism can't help but to be a little alarmed at how easy it is for this type of oversight to turn into something sinister. The old adage "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" comes to mind.

In the long game, I am glad there has been some control placed on emissions but I'm even more glad I am as far away from blue country as possible.

[FABombjoy]

I'm actually glad the mods kinda let us hash this out

I will seal our fate.

FS: this thread
Price: make an offer
Location: undisclosed

[SamHill]

As soon as plug and play EDeloreans are somewhat economically feasible, preferably with regen braking, I'll be happy to dump the carb and start saving for a swap. I'm guessing I'll die first.

[Hill Valley PD]

Some of you guys would hate my garage. We have a 2008 Hummer H3 Alpha with 302K on it that burns a lot of gas and a little oil probably, a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 5.7L Hemi, and a 2020 4Runner TRD Pro. The DeLorean is the most fuel efficient vehicle we own by a long shot.

I also agree I will believe the new DeLorean hype once they start building them. The article makes no mention of the 350hp engine they plan to use or any other details we haven't heard for the past few years.

[Riley88]

“It’s crazy how many DeLoreans are used as daily drivers in California,” bwuahaha. I used mine as a daily for awhile, but I lived ALL over, never in my life had i seen another on the road. My local owner group, a grand total of 3 of us here in vb are pretty active now though. Maybe nowdays things have changed there? no idea

[ssdelorean]

Electric cars are the future and they will be superior in almost every way to gas and most diesel vehicles (maybe sooner than we think). I believe we can at least agree on that.

Until a full size battery powered car can get me from Western OH to my family in Western NE in less than the 16 hrs it takes now, I'm sticking with gas. It is just not practical for the distances we travel. Ask me again once I retire and don't have limited time off from work to take longer/slower trips.


And asking because I don't know. . .
How is the life cycle of battery powered cars these days? I don't get a different car every few years. I maintain and drive the snot out of them. My mind goes to phones & the short battery lives those have. Or is that just intentional to entice you into upgrading every 6months to the latest greatest version?

[Michael]

Until a full size battery powered car can get me from Western OH to my family in Western NE in less than the 16 hrs it takes now, I'm sticking with gas. It is just not practical for the distances we travel. Ask me again once I retire and don't have limited time off from work to take longer/slower trips.


And asking because I don't know. . .
How is the life cycle of battery powered cars these days? I don't get a different car every few years. I maintain and drive the snot out of them. My mind goes to phones & the short battery lives those have. Or is that just intentional to entice you into upgrading every 6months to the latest greatest version?
I'm with you. What I am saying is the writing is on the wall. Electric powered vehicles will get there in terms of distance, recharge times(we are already at the 20 min mark), and longevity. Also consider the extreme simplicity of a battery powered car compared to today's new vehicles. It's only going to get better and better and the rate at which it does so will increase exponentially. The new Tesla roadster planned for next year boasts over 600 mile range on a single charge. The full sized truck claims 500 miles. That is an impressive range for any passenger vehicle. Like I said time and time again, we are not quite there yet, but in the next 2 years buying a gas powered passenger vehicle will be like buying yesterday's newspaper.

[mr_maxime]

Is it really fair to point out that California has higher pollution than most states when it has the highest population too then mocking the regulations to limit that? It's almost as if humans pollute and higher concentrations of humans lead to higher pollution.

Pointing out that battery manufacturing also causes pollution is a bad faith argument. The net pollution is less than burning fossil fuels. Just leaving out the coal burning plants needed to power the oil refineries that get deliveries from heavy fuel burning tankers from oil spilling pipelines in the ocean.

Also this had nothing to do with trump rolling back any regulations. The replica car law was passed under the Obama administration.

I get that post aren't supposed to be political, but the shit said in this thread has been the equivalent of saying John delorean died in prison for smuggling cocaine in the cars.

[Jack]

62523

[SamHill]

Pointing out that causing a brand new electric car to be manufactured is somehow less overall polluting than keeping an old fossil fuel car going is a bad faith argument. The greenest car is one that already exists.

[mr_maxime]

Pointing out that causing a brand new electric car to be manufactured is somehow less overall polluting than keeping an old fossil fuel car going is a bad faith argument. The greenest car is one that already exists.

So a used Nissan leaf?

[SamHill]

So a used Nissan leaf?

No! A used 69 Boss 302 at 85 MPH driven all the way to the tip of South America with a lot of sudden starts and stops!!!! Let's stop being wimps.

[Michael]

No! A used 69 Boss 302 at 85 MPH driven all the way to the tip of South America with a lot of sudden starts and stops!!!! Let's stop being wimps.

How daugh you!

[DMC-81]

And asking because I don't know. . .
How is the life cycle of battery powered cars these days? I don't get a different car every few years. I maintain and drive the snot out of them. My mind goes to phones & the short battery lives those have. Or is that just intentional to entice you into upgrading every 6months to the latest greatest version?

That was one of the questions I had about EV's. The difference is car batteries (at least in Tesla's case) is temperature and charging management. Heat and over-charging ( charging to 100% and or leaving the phone plugged into the charging device) reduces the life expectancy of the battery. Tesla uses a coolant system to maintain temperature at an optimum temperature and software to manage charging to 80-90 percent.

Here is the temperature patent:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20100025006?oq=20100025006

As a result, a Tesla fleet survey indicates an average of 80-90 percent of battery capacity after 300 - 500 K miles.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capacity-840km-1-million-km/
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-have-90-capacity-after-160000-miles-may-last-for-500000-miles/

Pretty impressive.

There is an emerging technology enhancement that will apparently allow batteries to last to 1 million miles. "The new battery tested is a Li-Ion battery cell with a next-generation “single crystal” NMC cathode and a new advanced electrolyte."

https://electrek.co/2019/09/07/tesla-battery-cell-last-1-million-miles-robot-taxis/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2020/12/30/teslas-new-lithium-ion-patent-brings-company-closer-to-promised-1-million-mile-battery/#72ec799333e3


Exciting times ahead for EV's.

-------------

On the new DeLorean's, yes it has been a long saga to produce them, but I wouldn't bet against their eventual production.

[Michael]

https://i.postimg.cc/4dND5htK/3n11xa.gif

[81dmc]

We don't really need more pollution regs here. Instead, other countries like China need to do their part.

Some emission regs are necessary, but the EPA has too much power nowadays.


As for new DMCs... I'll believe it when I get my call for a backordered glovebox insert that was supposed to be available in 2017...

[CFI]

As for new DMCs... I'll believe it when I get my call for a backordered glovebox insert that was supposed to be available in 2017...

DeLorean Go has the inserts.

[JETS 81 DMC]

From MSN :popcorn: :reading:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/new-delorean-dmc-12-should-be-ready-by-fall-2021-exec-says/ar-BBZgQ7R?li=BBnb7Kz

[Michael]

I still stand by my words from 4 years ago:


There will most definitely be at least one car built, vined, and titled. This will be the show pony. When Stephen said 300 cars I believe he meant that's how many they estimate they will sell. In reality they will probably be built to order. Someone lays down the payment, we will build a car. I would say if they do build the first, then there will be at least some demand.

I think where we are all coming from with our doubts is that we remember the past 8 years and how many times we have been fooled by the cry of "Wolf Wolf!"

If these new cars do take off that would be spectacular for everyone as it will no doubt raise the value of our own all original cars.

On another note I am so dammed sick of hearing about it I almost wish the new law would just get axed and put this tired neverending story to bed forever.

[81dmc]

From MSN :popcorn: :reading:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/new-delorean-dmc-12-should-be-ready-by-fall-2021-exec-says/ar-BBZgQ7R?li=BBnb7Kz

This is how I found out. Then I came here to join in on the drama.

[mr_maxime]

On another note I am so dammed sick of hearing about it I almost wish the new law would just get axed and put this tired neverending story to bed forever.

I've had several people at work tell me about it too. The DeLorean isn't really a car you just happen to drive like a Hyundai sonata, you pretty much know every odd fact and trivia that the general population knows.

I had someone come into my garage once when Ryan was helping me with my car. Started talking about someone with lots of delorean parts. Assumed he meant DMC Houston. But to my surprise, it was legit a guy with NOS parts leftover from a dealership that serviced DMCs a long time ago. Had stripes, luggage rack, taillights, windshield washer reservoir and tons of spark plugs, bulbs and sockets.

[SamHill]

I still stand by my words from 4 years ago:



On another note I am so dammed sick of hearing about it I almost wish the new law would just get axed and put this tired neverending story to bed forever.

They are making new ones you know

[Mark D]

I'm surprised nobody else has posted links to the NHTSA proposed guidelines yet. The public commentary period is now ended, but you can read all the related documents and DMCH's response to the proposed rules here:

NHTSA proposed rules:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=NHTSA-2019-0121-0001

The biggest issue I see is the definition of replica vehicle in sec 4A.1


1. REQUIREMENT TO RESEMBLE THE REPLICATED VEHICLE
The FAST Act states that a replica vehicle is a vehicle that is “intended to resemble the body” of another motor vehicle that was manufactured at least 25 years before the replica. NHTSA is proposing requirements that replica manufacturers demonstrate objective manifestations of intent.

To balance objectivity, feasibility, and enforceability, NHTSA is proposing a requirement that manufacturers submit documentation to support the assertion that the replica vehicle is intended to resemble the original. The documentation must demonstrate that the replica vehicle has the same length, width, and height as the original and must include images of the original vehicle and design plans for the replica vehicle.

One way to ensure that a vehicle is intended to resemble another vehicle would be to require the measurements and shape of the replica motor vehicle body to be identical to those of the replicated vehicle. NHTSA has tentatively decided not to propose requiring replica vehicles to have the exact same specifications as the original vehicles. All of the specifications for the original may not be available and some adjustments may be necessary (e.g., to accommodate modern safety features). That being said, our research shows that information regarding the dimensions of popular car models is available. Therefore, NHTSA believes that requiring the replica vehicles to have the same height, width, and length of original would be a reasonable and objective requirement that would help ensure that replica vehicles are intended to resemble the replicated vehicle.

In addition to the dimension and shape requirement, NHTSA is proposing a requirement that each replica vehicle have the same outward appearance or exterior as the original vehicle. This would mean that each replica must have the same body styling, shape, and exterior features as the original. Compliance with this requirement would be determined based primarily on the location, size, and shape of exterior features and the overall shape of the body of the vehicle.

We interpret the Act's reference to “body” to mean any part of the vehicle that is not part of the chassis or frame. Therefore, NHTSA interprets “body” to include, but not be limited to: The exterior sheet metal and trim, the passenger compartment, trunk, bumpers, fenders, grill, hood, interior trim, lights and glazing. In making this interpretation, NHTSA looked at, among other things, its concept of “body type” as defined at 49 CFR 565.12. “Body type” is defined as the general configuration or shape of a vehicle distinguished by such characteristics as the number of doors or windows, cargo-carrying features and the roofline (e.g., sedan fastback, hatchback). This definition helped NHTSA identify vehicle features and components that are part of the vehicle body. Because the definition includes reference to the shape of the vehicle as well as both exterior and interior features, NHTSA interprets the concept of “body” to include both exterior and interior characteristics. Although a replica vehicle must be the same body type as the original vehicle, merely replicating the number of doors and windows, cargo-carrying features, and the roofline is not sufficient.

My interpretation of this is that if DMCH is to meet this specific definition of "replica" then it would have to have the same overall dimensions (including front suspension ride height) and have the same interior design as the original. That kinda throws a monkey wrench into the original plans to have a custom interior, not to mention suspension/wheel changes which would change the ride height and track width of the car.

DMCH Response:
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=NHTSA-2019-0121-0019

Besides the issues related to the definition of "replica" it also looks like all the previous work DMCH has done related to the new EPA compliant drivetrain has to be thrown out and started from scratch. In the document it states that the engine that DMCH was intending to use will cease production in 2022. At this point it makes little sense to try and continue development of that engine that will no longer be available in such a short window.

[Hill Valley PD]

Basically, the new DeLorean will be pushed back another few years if they even are able to do it now. At that point, why bother? A bartender recently told me that the world is supposed to end within the next twelve years anyway, due to the pollution the original DeLorean bestowed upon the world.

[Michael]

By the time the new DeLorean gets here, Cybertrucks will be avaliable on used car lots.

[Mark D]

So I was probably wrong on the part about the interior, I missed this paragraph on the first read through:


As the statutory definition refers specifically to the “body” of the original vehicle, we propose that the interior of the replica vehicle does not need to “resemble” that of the original vehicle. NHTSA believes this approach would allow low-volume manufacturers to update the interiors to provide modern amenities and safety improvements.

That would mean DMCH could go ahead with the custom interior.

Also, this paragraph seems to allow for exceptions to exterior changes (like lowering the front end to a reasonable height) as long as it doesn't have any adverse effects on safetly. I'm assuming minor changes to the height due to lowered suspension would be something that NHTSA would allow and still meet the definition of replica. One could probably argue that the improved handling of the corrected front height would be a safety improvement.


Deviations in the appearance of the exterior would be considered carefully. While reasonable allowances would be made to accommodate safety equipment, NHTSA would consider any unjustified exterior changes (e.g., not for safety) as potential indications that the vehicle is not a replica. If a replica manufacturer wants to make deviations to the exterior of the vehicle to accommodate safety features, it would be required to highlight those deviations for NHTSA's consideration.

As much as DMCH gets their balls busted around here for the delay, it does suck that they spent so much time and effort into developing a new engine platform only to have the NHTSA guidelines delayed so long that they've now got to start over.

[Hill Valley PD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O1Hy2TKXa4

Sounds like the new DeLorean will be more like 150K rather than 100k...

[Timeless]

It's time for DMC to either put up or STFU. I'm sick of hearing this same crap over and over every 6 months. There is nothing wrong with a little hype, but the franchises have been hyping this for well over a decade. I'm sure the publicity is nice but at the end of the day there is a price for all that free advertising....you actually have to make the freaking product!

I would like to not hear one more word out of their mouths until the first car is built. They have exhausted both their supply of promotional baiting and teasing and my supply of good faith.
I know. Reminds me of Rivian - 10 years and no product in production. (i wish them the best)

[Timeless]

Meanwhile, CA still has the highest amount of air pollution in the US.
:cheers:

[Timeless]

Until a full size battery powered car can get me from Western OH to my family in Western NE in less than the 16 hrs it takes now, I'm sticking with gas. It is just not practical for the distances we travel. Ask me again once I retire and don't have limited time off from work to take longer/slower trips.

And asking because I don't know. . .
How is the life cycle of battery powered cars these days? I don't get a different car every few years. I maintain and drive the snot out of them. My mind goes to phones & the short battery lives those have. Or is that just intentional to entice you into upgrading every 6months to the latest greatest version?

Long time no talk sir. The Tesla Model S is 393 miles per charge and the Model X ~350 miles. I bought a 2020 Tesla Model 3. Battery life is 300-500K miles currently and they are expecting much more with the new cell designs on the horizon.
https://ir.tesla.com/news-releases/news-release-details/tesla-completes-acquisition-maxwell-technologies

I'm at 8000K miles in 4 months and get ~300 miles per charge at 100% SCO. For long trips I use the supercharger network and see 15-30 minute charge times depending on SOC. I drive a lot and, like you, I plan to drive the snot out of it and report issues with big miles-stones. (100K, 150K, 200K, etc...)

[MrChocky]

Reviving this tedious thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O1Hy2TKXa4

From this video from about 3 weeks ago, SW states the "new" cars will be north of 150K. Also in the background, there's an orange car. I'm not sure if it's an orange DeLorean or a Bricklin,

[Michael]

65396

DMCH has no shame.

[Ryan]

65396

DMCH has no shame.

I signed in after a decade of inactivity to see if someone had posted about this lol. They are truly the kings of wishful thinking

[Michael]

I signed in after a decade of inactivity to see if someone had posted about this lol. They are truly the kings of wishful thinking

It's not wishful thinking, it's intentional misdirection. The new law is quite clear that any new car they produce must look like the original design yet they insist on teasing some pic of what looks like a Supra with a pair of doors photoshopped on top. Would you have what few people interested believe you are going to design and build a new car? If/when you do actually nut up and make a "new build" with a modern powerplant, how to you think those interested people will fell about ponying up 6 figures when it looks just like a regular DeLorean and not the car you teased?

Why do this?? You seriously have gone off the deep end. This bullshit alone is enough to make me want to blacklist the old guard vendors and deal strictly with Delorean Industrues and DeLoreango...at least they don't insult our intelligence every 6 months.

In the end, if this ever does come to fruition, the "new build" will be a glorified engine swap and maybe a revamped instrument cluster and a pair of Recaros.

[Timeless]

Josh and DPI are truly innovating the platform and their complete builds are phenomenal. They may not have a "modern" Ford or Toyota V6 but the components used and level of detail make for a gorgeous example of a DMC-12 that JZD would be proud of.
Fingers crossed one will be under my stewardship on display in my man cave sooner than later.

[Ryan]

It's not wishful thinking, it's intentional misdirection. The new law is quite clear that any new car they produce must look like the original design yet they insist on teasing some pic of what looks like a Supra with a pair of doors photoshopped on top. Would you have what few people interested believe you are going to design and build a new car? If/when you do actually nut up and make a "new build" with a modern powerplant, how to you think those interested people will fell about ponying up 6 figures when it looks just like a regular DeLorean and not the car you teased?

Why do this?? You seriously have gone off the deep end. This bullshit alone is enough to make me want to blacklist the old guard vendors and deal strictly with Delorean Industrues and DeLoreango...at least they don't insult our intelligence every 6 months.

In the end, if this ever does come to fruition, the "new build" will be a glorified engine swap and maybe a revamped instrument cluster and a pair of Recaros.

I'm assuming your use of "you" is directed at DMCH, but dang dude can you chill? Instead of getting riled up, just take your business elsewhere and don't follow them anymore. I think it's humorous at best and misleading at worst that they continue to tease these things and never follow through, but your response is even funnier... or i guess sadder depending on how you view it.

[Michael]

I'm assuming your use of "you" is directed at DMCH, but dang dude can you chill? Instead of getting riled up, just take your business elsewhere and don't follow them anymore. I think it's humorous at best and misleading at worst that they continue to tease these things and never follow through, but your response is even funnier... or i guess sadder depending on how you view it.

LOL...nobody here has ever seen me "riled up". Just because I voice an opinion that isn't glowing, you assume I am pounding the keys and cursing. It's my opinion of them and their tactics that we all pay for at every gas stop with the never ending supply of uninformed know it alls.

[MetalGearSS]

Just saw this: https://www.newdelorean.com/nhtsa-releases-final-low-volume-manufacturing-rules/

Sounds like the new NHTSA rules finally went through. But production is still a ways off until they can get some new suppliers lined up.

[Victor]

Very interesting comment from everyone.
The one comment that ultimately go to the roots of everything is the one made by SamHill:« The greenest car is one that already exists. »

And I feel it is true for every-things.

I try go about buying the best quality I can, and keep the object for the longest time. I know that thought challenges the economy but ultimately it is one of the best way to go, I think.

In that sense, almost all Delorean are therefore quite ethical vehicle, 40 years later and still on the roads.

[BladeBronson]

Just saw this: https://www.newdelorean.com/nhtsa-releases-final-low-volume-manufacturing-rules/

THIS is what DMC should be trumpeting today, not a teaser for a different product. BTW, the silhouette teaser is probably this: https://www.italdesign.it/project/davinci/

[Mark D]

Just saw this: https://www.newdelorean.com/nhtsa-releases-final-low-volume-manufacturing-rules/

Sounds like the new NHTSA rules finally went through. But production is still a ways off until they can get some new suppliers lined up.


Looks like this is already getting chewed up and spit out to the masses on other websites. Here we go again with "I hear they are making electric DeLoreans now" comments.

https://electrek.co/2021/01/21/delorean-coming-back-electric-car/

[er1c]

Very interesting comment from everyone.
The one comment that ultimately go to the roots of everything is the one made by SamHill:« The greenest car is one that already exists. »

And I feel it is true for every-things.

I try go about buying the best quality I can, and keep the object for the longest time. I know that thought challenges the economy but ultimately it is one of the best way to go, I think.

In that sense, almost all Delorean are therefore quite ethical vehicle, 40 years later and still on the roads.

I dont buy that fully..... Many modern cars have green ethical 40k miles 0 carbon blah blah blah.. Sure if you never turned the key on the DeLorean that's a valid statement but every mile you do will pump out more than any modern vehicle.

I think the miles we put on these vehicles is so low you are pretty much right.

I like Jay Leno who said he loves electric vehicles, as they allow us to use they day to day and then have a classic for the weekend/fun etc.

[Quinn]

Just saw this: https://www.newdelorean.com/nhtsa-releases-final-low-volume-manufacturing-rules/

Sounds like the new NHTSA rules finally went through. But production is still a ways off until they can get some new suppliers lined up.


Definitely some managing of expectations going on in this press release. I don't see any pie-in-the-sky promises being made, maybe even some sand-bagging.

[Michael]

DMCH would never lie or mislead their loyal customers. I got my new build last night and it is just as pictured. It's very sleek and the build quality is top notch. The staff were wonderful to work with and it was a pleasure to do business with them.

My apologies to DMCH. They are legit and have the track record to prove it.

Seriously they are turning the marque into a laughing stock with their antics.

[Hill Valley PD]

Not sure what appeal will be other than exclusivity among an already exclusive car. For those willing to spend the 150K price I've heard DMCH state in an interview, why not buy a 50K priced minty original and then mod it for a ton less to make it more "modern"? Hell, spend the other 100K on a Time Machine, and now you have the best of both worlds. IMO all DMCH will do is take the formula for the "new build" from a decade ago with NOS frames/bodies and swap a modern power plant, modern interior, and maybe a new wheel design in. It will look virtually the same as every other DeLorean from the outside as the new law states it must.

[BLWNAWY]

"Originally Posted by SonnyV
DMCH would never lie or mislead their loyal customers. I got my new build last night and it is just as pictured. It's very sleek and the build quality is top notch. The staff were wonderful to work with and it was a pleasure to do business with them."

That one made my day. I wonder if anyone else got it?

[Elvis]

:-D

Now you must be long in the Delorean business, that one must be around 15 years old :-D

unforgotten !!!

[BLWNAWY]

:-D

Now you must be long in the Delorean business, that one must be around 15 years old :-D

unforgotten !!!

Only since 1986. And DMCH is the primary reason I am no longer in the DeLorean business.

[Hill Valley PD]

Haven't been around long enough to get the above, but I can only imagine...Huge fan of DMC MW though!

[BLWNAWY]

Haven't been around long enough to get the above, but I can only imagine.

Some background for those who may be new to the game - many years ago on the old DeLorean Mailing List, DMCH (Espey I believe) started posting fake complimentary praises, among other things, of their own business using the phony name SonnyV. A suspicious reader with skills way beyond mine was able to trace the IP address back to DMCH and outed them. They never, to my knowledge, apologized for that. As a footnote, about 3 years ago James Espey announced that he was taking over the old DML. My response, which surprisingly they actually published, was "Kool. Does that mean we can once again look forward to posts from Sonny V?" Since I no longer have a horse in this race, I can get away with stuff like that. They can't blacklist a non-customer.

And yes shops like DMCMW and Toby's are the saving grace of the car.

[dn010]

Espey/DMCH already deleted the posts back in the day, I'd guess they wouldn't restore those specific messages and for good reason. I'm sure they wish this was finally buried. Here is some of the story, unfortunately the links do not work.




On Nov 19, there was a message posted to the DML
signed by James Espey.

http://www.projectvixen.com/dmcnews-.../msg10116.html

It was later pointed out to me by someone that this
message was sent from "sonnyvr2000". For some reason,
this message has been removed from the Yahoo archives.

Later in the day, a similar message was posted by
James:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/46806

And, 3 more messages by Sonnyvr2000:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/46798

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/46799

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/46800


All four of the messages sent by Sonnyvr2000 came from
the same IP address, an address that is in common with
posts made by James from DMCH.

No big deal, because Sonny said he was in Houston
getting work done on his car. It is possible he was
using a computer at DMCH to send those posts before he
returned to his home in Springfield, MO.

Searching the DML Yahoo archives, it became obvious
that most of the posts made by Sonnyvr2000 have been
removed! The only record of any posts made by this
person are in quoted responses to his posts. Why is
this?

The only one I found was post 39097, which came from
an IP address in Houston, TX. It also happens to be on
the same ISP as DMCH uses (rr.com). But Sonny claims
he lives in MO. I remember James once saying he was
from or had family in MO.

So, I took a look at some e-mail archives of the DML
from 6/15/2001 to 9/30/2004, and searched for all sent
by sonnyvr2000

DATE SUBJECT IP
7/24/03 Re: Stainless Steel Ill 24.173.4.228
8/5/03 windshield antenna 24.173.4.228
8/13/03 Monroes and Gabriels 24.173.4.228
8/20/03 100404 Wheel bearings ! 24.173.4.228
9/4/03 Cleaner/Sealer 24.173.4.228
10/16/03Re: Door struts and do 24.173.4.228
12/1/03 Who wears XXXL? 24.173.4.228
1/7/04 Refurbished Fascias 200.9.59.10
1/12/04 Permacast wheels? 24.173.4.228
2/22/04 New angle drive receiv 24.242.224.139
3/7/04 DMCH's performance eng 24.242.228.133
3/8/04 DMCH's performance eng 24.173.4.228
3/11/04 clutch release bearing 24.173.4.228
3/11/04 Exhaust note of DMCH E 24.173.4.228
3/29/04 angle drive update 24.173.4.228

I included the subjects so you can all see the content
of these messages in your own archives, or at
http://www.projectvixen.com because they have been
removed from the Yahoo archives. Please look at the
content and evaluate for yourself.

The bulk of the mail came from 24.173.4.228, which
also happens to be the same IP address most of James
Espey posts come from. Do a search of the Yahoo
archives for that address and you will see.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...y=24.173.4.228

Furthermore (thanks Dave):

24.173.4.X (24.173.0.0/16) belongs to Roadrunner
(southeast). Roadrunner is available in MO, but only
in Kansas City, not Springfield.

24.242.224.139 and 24.242.228.133 both resolve DNS to
names with "houston.rr.com"

200.9.59.10 (200.9.48.0/20) belongs to Instituto
Costarricense de Electricidad y Telecom, based in San
Jose, Costa Rica

On 1/7/04 Sonny sent an email from 200.9.59.10, on the
same day James sent an email from 200.9.59.10 as well.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...38076?source=1


Assuming Sonnyvr2000 is a real person, why is it that
his posts are all missing from the official Yahoo
archives? And he sure does spend an awful lot of time
at DMCH, Odd for a guy who lives 700 miles away in
Springfield, MO (?), and seems to know a lot about
DeLoreans. Almost as much as someone who works for a
DeLorean vendor.

But, he asked for shipping estimates to Farmington, MO
63640 which is over 800 miles from Humble, TX.

(look @ the quoted text at the bottom)
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/.../message/38079

I would conclude that SonnyV is someone at DMCH. But,
is SonnyV a real person?

In the past 2 weeks, a few members of the DML have
been talking about this topic off line. The purpose of
getting others involved before "going public" was to
verify the information to be correct, and make a fair
decision on how to proceed.

I feel the group was unbiased, and we wrestled with
the pros and cons on what action to take. We concluded
that someone at DMCH was likely posing as "Sonny", and
decided that it was wrong to condone this behavior by
allowing it to remain hidden/be erased and that no one
in the DeLorean community should allow such to go
unnoticed. Ultimately, we decided to let the community
see and think for themselves as to what, if anything,
should be done.

[Michael]

The links at DMCtoday.com work just fine. Post #53 has all the info you need.

http://dmctoday.com/showthread.php?803-The-Sonny-V-Saga/page6&highlight=Sonnyv

In the explanation they instruct you not to discuss or talk about the matter and direct you to bring your concerns to DMCH. By talking about it here, we are breaking DMCH mandate.

[Malevy]

Some background for those who may be new to the game - many years ago on the old DeLorean Mailing List, DMCH (Espey I believe) started posting fake complimentary praises, among other things, of their own business using the phony name SonnyV. A suspicious reader with skills way beyond mine was able to trace the IP address back to DMCH and outed them. They never, to my knowledge, apologized for that. As a footnote, about 3 years ago James Espey announced that he was taking over the old DML. My response, which surprisingly they actually published, was "Kool. Does that mean we can once again look forward to posts from Sonny V?" Since I no longer have a horse in this race, I can get away with stuff like that. They can't blacklist a non-customer.

And yes shops like DMCMW and Toby's are the saving grace of the car.

That was me. :P

The mods of the DML at the time held my post for a few days while they "discussed" it.

Stephen did make a followup post to the DML explaining why they did it.

[BLWNAWY]

That was me. :P


I knew that, Marc, but did not feel at liberty to say so.

And I can't access the DMCtoday.com files without joining, which I may do later if I'm that bored.

On the outside, looking in occasionally.

DT

[Michael]

I knew that, Marc, but did not feel at liberty to say so.

And I can't access the DMCtoday.com files without joining, which I may do later if I'm that bored.

On the outside, looking in occasionally.

DT

It was a move to try and keep the bots at bay. I have deleted over 10k and still delete about 1,000 oer week. We may be only less than 500 members, but what we lack in numbers we gain in humanity.

[Malevy]

And I can't access the DMCtoday.com files without joining


Same. Not clear to me why so many different forums are needed. I have been sticking to FaceBook lately, and only come here when someone sends me a link. No idea what DMCtoday is!

[Timeless]

Same. Not clear to me why so many different forums are needed. I have been sticking to FaceBook lately, and only come here when someone sends me a link. No idea what DMCtoday is!
Never considered DMCtoday - been with talk for years and dont see a reason to go somewhere else. No FB or any social media for me - ever.

[BLWNAWY]

I can't access the DMCtoday.com files without joining, which I may do later if I'm that bored.



I tried 6 or 8 times to register at DMCtoday. My registration was finally accepted, but no confirmation ever received (email address is correct). As a result I can log in, but cannot access anything. I'd like to go back and refresh my memory on the SonnyV saga, but apparently it's not that easy....

[NJP548]

I tried 6 or 8 times to register at DMCtoday. My registration was finally accepted, but no confirmation ever received (email address is correct). As a result I can log in, but cannot access anything. I'd like to go back and refresh my memory on the SonnyV saga, but apparently it's not that easy....

Same exact thing happened to me. I just tried with two different email addresses. I sent an email to the admin earlier today and I'm waiting to hear back.

-Nick

[Michael]

Same exact thing happened to me. I just tried with two different email addresses. I sent an email to the admin earlier today and I'm waiting to hear back.

-Nick

Be sure to check your spam filter. I deleted about 500 accounts today and yours might have been caught up in the latest bot purge.

Better yet, PM me your screen names after you register(again because I may have deleted them) and I will just approve them manually. Maybe something is up on our end?

[NJP548]

Be sure to check your spam filter. I deleted about 500 accounts today and yours might have been caught up in the latest bot purge.

Better yet, PM me your screen names after you register(again because I may have deleted them) and I will just approve them manually. Maybe something is up on our end?

Sending you a PM now.

Thanks.

-Nick

[Hill Valley PD]

More of a reason to believe it when I see it when it comes to this "new" DeLorean. The overpromising and underdelivering of DMC lives on!