Frame swap, how bad was it?

[Kevin 02530]

Looking for tips and advice for doing a frame replacement. I am about to pick up my second car, this one even a bigger project that my first was. It needs a different frame due to excessive rot, she's past the point of no return. Since this will be the first time I've split the body and chassis I am curious as to some of the issues you may have ran into in doing this project. Thanks!

[dn010]

There are numerous threads here on frame swaps, read those so you know what you're getting into and what tools you may need. I've removed my frame more times than I want to remember for repairs and I finally did a swap years ago. My biggest advice is if you can find a rolling frame, get it. If your current frame is bad, many of the components are probably getting bad too. On my frame for example, the trailing arms were bad, the LCAs were bad, brake lines rusting, my stainless braided brake lines were unable to be removed, I had a huge rust hole in a vacuum line going up to the front (now I know why I could never get it to run right), pretty much every bolt and bushing were garbage, etc. I found a rolling frame that needed minor repair and having all the arms and everything else already on it made the swap cheaper and easier. If you want to upgrade your radiator/fans it's easier to do so while the frame is out. Make sure all the bolt holes are good on the new frame, especially the shock tower ones. If your current frame is a manual and the mid section is good, you can cut the mid section and sell it to someone looking to do a auto-manual swap.

[Josh]

Swapping the frame is not the hard part - you can remove and reinstall the body in a day even with just blocks and a floor jack.
However, everything that is attached to the frame is what you will spend your money and time on. Suspension, cooling system, cooling system, etc etc

[David T]

What he said. When you do a reframe on a car in that bad a condition you have to figure you will be basically rebuilding everything as you move it over to the other frame. In fact, figure on doing some work on the "new" frame too. Unless you get really lucky (or you pay a LOT for a pretty frame) you will have to buy a frame with at least a little bit of rot. And maybe have to modify it from auto to manual or vice versa. If you can do some sheet metal and welding work yourself you are probably better off trying to fix your frame. Repairing a frame is mostly time. The materiel is just 16 gauge sheet metal. Much can be done without removing the body but if it is really bad, removing the body makes the repairs faster and easier. Getting a frame not only is expensive but then you have to figure shipping costs too. By the time you are all done you can do a LOT for what it can cost to get a frame. They do come around once in a while but they never seem to be nearby. Even worse is getting one that has been in an accident. Check out R:02:01-:03 in the Workshop Manual. The cost of reframing the car is going to be a LOT more than just the cost of the frame and your labor. Budget accordingly. You also need a good place to work and all of the necessary tools. This is not a weekend job. It will turn into a restoration.

[Kevin 02530]

Thanks for the advice guys. I did a big resto job on my current car minus replacing the frame and rebuilding the engine which were both ok. I know this will be a timely and costly venture. Thankfully I have the resources and space available to be able to do this. Just was basically looking for any hang ups or extra difficulties I should know before I dive in. I’ll be replacing as much as I can while the body is off, it won’t be cheap.


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[82DMC12]

I've owned my D for nearly 20 years now and it's going to need some frame work in the near future. Like in under 5 years for sure. I don't know how to weld and I think it will be easier to work on it with the frame out of the car. I live in a big city where I'm sure I'll be able to find someone I can bring my frame to and leave it with them to work on. Front frame extension is the worst part and those can be replaced no problem.

My strategy, knowing that there are so many other ancillary parts that need to be addressed while the frame is out, is to refurbish most of those parts bit by bit until I get the time/funds to do the frame. I've already replaced the entire A/C, had the engine out, doing brakes and suspension this year, did radiator a couple years ago, new hoses, etc. My thought is if I can address most of those things now as I have time, that leaves only smaller stuff like fasteners and hard fuel lines / brake lines for the frame project. Helps me reduce the mountain of other things to do (and blowing the budget) when that time comes.

My fear is being in a situation where once the frame is out you find so much other stuff to do that now it's apart for months and my garage turns into a junkyard. I want to minimize that risk and working on this other stuff bit by bit will keep me sane.

[David T]

I've owned my D for nearly 20 years now and it's going to need some frame work in the near future. Like in under 5 years for sure. I don't know how to weld and I think it will be easier to work on it with the frame out of the car. I live in a big city where I'm sure I'll be able to find someone I can bring my frame to and leave it with them to work on. Front frame extension is the worst part and those can be replaced no problem.

My strategy, knowing that there are so many other ancillary parts that need to be addressed while the frame is out, is to refurbish most of those parts bit by bit until I get the time/funds to do the frame. I've already replaced the entire A/C, had the engine out, doing brakes and suspension this year, did radiator a couple years ago, new hoses, etc. My thought is if I can address most of those things now as I have time, that leaves only smaller stuff like fasteners and hard fuel lines / brake lines for the frame project. Helps me reduce the mountain of other things to do (and blowing the budget) when that time comes.

My fear is being in a situation where once the frame is out you find so much other stuff to do that now it's apart for months and my garage turns into a junkyard. I want to minimize that risk and working on this other stuff bit by bit will keep me sane.


A good strategy, it gets the car more reliable and keeps the cash flow more manageable. As for welding, most places have an adult education place where you can learn welding. If not, you can go to a welding supply and they often will have welding demonstrations where you can learn and they can sell you the equipment. It also gives you more time to find a frame. You don't need a lot of fancy, expensive equipment to weld or repair sheet metal. You could do it all with an oxy-acetalyne torch. Or a buzz box and stick weld it. MIG and TIG takes more skill and the equipment is more expensive. I say, learn a new skill!

[82DMC12]

A good strategy, it gets the car more reliable and keeps the cash flow more manageable. As for welding, most places have an adult education place where you can learn welding. If not, you can go to a welding supply and they often will have welding demonstrations where you can learn and they can sell you the equipment. It also gives you more time to find a frame. You don't need a lot of fancy, expensive equipment to weld or repair sheet metal. You could do it all with an oxy-acetalyne torch. Or a buzz box and stick weld it. MIG and TIG takes more skill and the equipment is more expensive. I say, learn a new skill!

I actually like that idea and didn't really consider it before. Maybe I should be a welder when I grow up.

[Josh]

A good strategy, it gets the car more reliable and keeps the cash flow more manageable. As for welding, most places have an adult education place where you can learn welding. If not, you can go to a welding supply and they often will have welding demonstrations where you can learn and they can sell you the equipment. It also gives you more time to find a frame. You don't need a lot of fancy, expensive equipment to weld or repair sheet metal. You could do it all with an oxy-acetalyne torch. Or a buzz box and stick weld it. MIG and TIG takes more skill and the equipment is more expensive. I say, learn a new skill!

I want to watch you stick weld 16ga sheetmetal together Mr. Guru. lmfao

[dn010]

I want to watch you stick weld 16ga sheetmetal together Mr. Guru. lmfao

+1. I also want to know how MIG takes more skill than stick welding.

[David T]

Doing MIG properly does take some skill but it is a LOT more expensive than stick. 3/32" rod and you can weld 16 gauge but it isn't the best way to do it. Gas welding does take a bit more skill than MIG but the equipment is a lot cheaper. For a novice IMHO learning gas welding teaches all the basic skills necessary to do any other type of welding and is very forgiving. You can go over your work, you can penetrate as deeply as you have to or go faster to avoid blow-through. You can use the equipment to burn or heat parts or even to make parts. You can do crude heat treating. It is indispensable when taking apart exhaust systems and not break off every bolt. Any well equipped shop will have a gas welding outfit. I have taught people how to MIG weld in 15 minutes but they are very limited in what they can do. Gas welding does take a while longer to learn but once you get it you can do anything.

[cdrusn]

I've read through some rusty frame threads looking for one that had tackled my frame problem. Over the years I've kept up pretty good with small chips/cracked epoxy by Dremel sanding it down and POR 15 covered by Rustoleum smoke grey. But now I've found rust inside the frame. Using a small cheap t.v. inspection camera from Harbor Freight I took a peak into the rear shock towers through rather large factory holes on either side of the top of the transmission level. On both sides the area around the bottom had significant rust not visible except internally. Then I started sticking the camera in every frame hole big enough to fit. More rust. Not enough to trash the frame but enough to eventually rot through from the inside out. I am going to use Eastwood Internal Frame Coating that includes a 2 foot hose with a 360 degree nozzle on the end.
I would like to have taken pictures but like I said the t.v. inspection camera is cheap black and white. :race:

[CFI]

I am going to use Eastwood Internal Frame Coating that includes a 2 foot hose with a 360 degree nozzle on the end.


I used Eastwood to coat the interior of my roof box. Very good stuff. That hose makes a huge difference in reaching all the nooks and crannies. It does take a little while to uncurl the hose once it’s unboxed though. Be sure to get more cans than you think you’ll need, and check your progress as you go along. I emptied one can only to find I had missed a spot and had to wait a week for another can to come in.

[dn010]

Personally I don't believe these products are as good as they claim. I've used POR-15, KBS Coatings among others on various projects not limited to the DeLorean and the results are always the same - the rust came back. It may have taken a few years to a decade or however long (KBS lasted longest of them all before rust reappeared), but the rust returned and that's even after the proper prep (and more $$) recommended by them. To me it seems more of a mental thing - you can cover up rust all you want so it looks nice and you forget about it but ultimately the rust is still there doing its thing especially on scaly unprepared surfaces. On the other hand I do think it does slow down rust to an extent and buy you some time but that's about it. The only effective method I've found is to grind all the rust away - not possible inside the frames many cavities. There are very few options for the rust inside the frame so the Eastwood spray is a good approach but check it from time to time and make sure you get as much epoxy off as possible. It is too bad you didn't have a cam that you could use for pictures, it would be a cool before/after regardless.

[David T]

If you don't stop the area from getting wet you get more rust. These products, for the most part, encapsulate and convert the surface of the rust to a less oxidized form and they do stop further rusting but not if you continue to get it wet. Even with that being said, the frame flexes, it is only sheet metal, and you get tiny stress cracks where moisture can get to the metal again. Eventually just about every coating fails and once moisture can get to the metal the corrosion continues. The best is hot dipped zinc coating, aka galvanizing. It is self healing and sacrificial. Even that doesn't last forever but it does last a long time. Powder coating would be next best, then epoxy and finally paint. We are talking about mild steel. The Stainless Steel frames are probably the longest lasting option of all.