Transaxle Lip Seals - Replaced But Leaking Again After About 2k Miles

[kings1527]

Hello all,

Just like the title says, I replaced both without any issues about 2k miles ago and now I'm leaking again. Even more significantly through the split pin hole on the driver's side. When I took off the flange on the driver's side, everything seemed to be reinforced with a ton of RTV so maybe that's an issue on my driver's side.

I seemed to do everything as instructed. Had the seals out by just a tad and not flush. Reinstalled split pin with the split facing towards the outside. Loaded the inside of the new seal with grease. Installed Rob Grady's reconditioned and sleeved flanges. Seals seemed to go in fine. Not really sure but welcome any other tips.

Thanks

[David T]

If it is leaking again there are a couple of possibilities;
The "O" rings need to be replaced
The bearing adjustment is off allowing the shaft to move too much damaging the seals.
Try moving the half shaft up and down. If you can move it noticeably you have too much play and the bearing adjustment is not correct.

[kings1527]

If it is leaking again there are a couple of possibilities;
The "O" rings need to be replaced
The bearing adjustment is off allowing the shaft to move too much damaging the seals.
Try moving the half shaft up and down. If you can move it noticeably you have too much play and the bearing adjustment is not correct.

Thanks David. I did replace the O-ring that had to be removed with a pick but not the one that's further in that everyone says not to mess with.

If the half shaft is moving, what's the process to adjust the bearing?

[David T]

I forgot to include overfilling the trasnaxle with fluid as a cause for leaks. If you have too much play the bad news is the only good way to properly set the bearings is to remove the transaxle and follow the procedure in the Workshop Manual. If you really know what you are doing you can guess at the adjustment without removing the transaxle by tightening the adjuster till you *just* remove all of the play but that is not the "right" way to do it. This is why you are not supposed to touch that adjuster nut to remove the seal.

[Ron]

$.02

It should not matter which way you turn the split pin -- If fluid is getting to the pin, it would weep out no matter which way it was turned...

IF it's leaking at the roll pin hole only, I would suspect the o-ring that the flange butts against, or, the flange pin hole is
off. I've seen both.

FWIW- You should have to press the flange inward slightly, compressing the o-ring, to get the roll pin hole to align.

If all else fails, swap the flanges....

[DMCMW Dave]

$.02

It should not matter which way you turn the split pin -- If fluid is getting to the pin, it would weep out no matter which way it was turned...

IF it's leaking at the roll pin hole only, I would suspect the o-ring that the flange butts against, or, the flange pin hole is
off. I've seen both.

FWIW- You should have to press the flange inward slightly, compressing the o-ring, to get the roll pin hole to align.

If all else fails, swap the flanges....

Yes. If oil is coming out of the roll pin, you need to replace the o-ring that's further in. The one you remove with a pick tool. Don't mess with the bearing adjustments, the only time that is needed is if someone else screwed with it.

[kings1527]

$.02

It should not matter which way you turn the split pin -- If fluid is getting to the pin, it would weep out no matter which way it was turned...

IF it's leaking at the roll pin hole only, I would suspect the o-ring that the flange butts against, or, the flange pin hole is
off. I've seen both.

FWIW- You should have to press the flange inward slightly, compressing the o-ring, to get the roll pin hole to align.

If all else fails, swap the flanges....


Yes. If oil is coming out of the roll pin, you need to replace the o-ring that's further in. The one you remove with a pick tool. Don't mess with the bearing adjustments, the only time that is needed is if someone else screwed with it.


Thanks guys. Sorry for the late reply. Ron, you mentioned that the flange pin hole might be off. Can you elaborate on that? In my mind, if it's off, I wouldn't be able to put the split pin back in which I didn't have trouble with. Or are you saying that it just wasn't compressed correctly, resulting in the split pin kind of having to be forced back into place since the alignment would be a bit off?

Also: can you locate a part number for the O-ring? I can't find it in the manuals and I've also been told that the original size was strange, in between a standard and metric size, and wasn't able to be 100% replaced with OEM. Just wondering what our options are with that. The kit I bought came with replacements but I bought that kit awhile ago, so......?

Thanks again.

[Ron]

Thanks guys. Sorry for the late reply. Ron, you mentioned that the flange pin hole might be off. Can you elaborate on that? In my mind, if it's off, I wouldn't be able to put the split pin back in which I didn't have trouble with. Or are you saying that it just wasn't compressed correctly, resulting in the split pin kind of having to be forced back into place since the alignment would be a bit off?

Also: can you locate a part number for the O-ring? I can't find it in the manuals and I've also been told that the original size was strange, in between a standard and metric size, and wasn't able to be 100% replaced with OEM. Just wondering what our options are with that. The kit I bought came with replacements but I bought that kit awhile ago, so......?

Thanks again.
Sean and I were pulling hair on a D with all new seals and flanges leaking, I noticed that I had to push inward harder on the left flange to get the pin holes aligned than on the right. I swapped the flanges and the leak moved to the other side. Measuring it and one of the owner's old ones confirmed the pin hole was too far from the o-ring surface. I put one of the the original OEM types on and it's still dry today...

Not compressed 'enough'.

IIRC, the o-ring is 103691.
Dave (DMCMW) hooked me up with the correct ones.

[kings1527]

Sean and I were pulling hair on a D with all new seals and flanges leaking, I noticed that I had to push inward harder on the left flange to get the pin holes aligned than on the right. I swapped the flanges and the leak moved to the other side. Measuring it and one of the owner's old ones confirmed the pin hole was too far from the o-ring surface. I put one of the the original OEM types on and it's still dry today...

Not compressed 'enough'.

IIRC, the o-ring is 103691.
Dave (DMCMW) hooked me up with the correct ones.

Wow. That's the first I've heard of this and my leak is on the left side, too. Interesting. Great info. Thanks, Ron! I'll give it a shot.

[kings1527]

Sean and I were pulling hair on a D with all new seals and flanges leaking, I noticed that I had to push inward harder on the left flange to get the pin holes aligned than on the right. I swapped the flanges and the leak moved to the other side. Measuring it and one of the owner's old ones confirmed the pin hole was too far from the o-ring surface. I put one of the the original OEM types on and it's still dry today...

Not compressed 'enough'.

IIRC, the o-ring is 103691.
Dave (DMCMW) hooked me up with the correct ones.

Finally getting around to starting this project (again) but had a thought: is there anything that would keep me from putting two O-rings on the stub axle in order to provide enough "squish" and have it seat properly? Not sure if this is feasible but thought I'd ask. Not sure if chafing of the O-rings would be an issue. No one likes chafing.

[Ron]

Finally getting around to starting this project (again) but had a thought: is there anything that would keep me from putting two O-rings on the stub axle in order to provide enough "squish" and have it seat properly? Not sure if this is feasible but thought I'd ask. Not sure if chafing of the O-rings would be an issue. No one likes chafing. I believe you would have a hard time compressing two...probably burst sooner or later anyway. And, an oring mating to another oring doesn't sound promising to me.

Most NAPA stores have an oring assortment. Maybe try one size thicker, but the same OD.

[DMCMW Dave]

The o-ring sits in a groove in the stub axle. Like most O-rings, it's not squished, the flange actually slides over the o-ring to make the seal. If you put in a second one you will probably not be able to get the flange in without beating it, and in the process you will tear one or both of the o-rings making the leak worse. Use the correct O-ring, just one per side.

[kings1527]

I believe you would have a hard time compressing two...probably burst sooner or later anyway. And, an oring mating to another oring doesn't sound promising to me.

Most NAPA stores have an oring assortment. Maybe try one size thicker, but the same OD.


The o-ring sits in a groove in the stub axle. Like most O-rings, it's not squished, the flange actually slides over the o-ring to make the seal. If you put in a second one you will probably not be able to get the flange in without beating it, and in the process you will tear one or both of the o-rings making the leak worse. Use the correct O-ring, just one per side.

Understood. Thanks to both of you. I wasn't aware that there was a groove on the stub axle and that may have very well been where I went wrong. I'll make sure I get good positioning of the o-ring in the groove this time around. Thanks again.

[DMCMW Dave]

Understood. Thanks to both of you. I wasn't aware that there was a groove on the stub axle and that may have very well been where I went wrong. I'll make sure I get good positioning of the o-ring in the groove this time around. Thanks again.

If the leak is at the o-ring the oil will come out of the inside of the flange, so it will look like the CV joint is leaking. If it’s the lip seal the oil will run down the side of the trans.

[kings1527]

If the leak is at the o-ring the oil will come out of the inside of the flange, so it will look like the CV joint is leaking. If it’s the lip seal the oil will run down the side of the trans.

I see. I noticed the majority of the leak coming out of the split pin hole which pointed me in the direction of the o-ring but I'll double check the side of the trans just to be sure. When I checked, I didn't notice anything there. Thanks again, Dave.

[kings1527]

OK. Did the job yesterday and here's what I discovered:

-Pulled out the O-ring at the end of the stub axle and I was expecting to find an issue there but everything looked just fine. No noticeable damage to the O-ring but I replaced it with a new one anyways.

-As I'm putting the axle flange back on, as it goes on I notice that there's really no squish resistance as it goes all the way in.

-I take my pin punch to make sure all of the holes are lined up and ready to reinsert the split pin, but I'm not lined up. I have to back the axle flange out just a bit in order to get the holes to line up. There's no question the distance that I had to back the flange out was at a bare minimum the width of the O-ring, if it was even up against it to begin with.

-Thinking I'm going to run into the same issue as before, I took some RTV and really loaded it up on the end of the flange hoping to help close the gap between the flange and the o-ring. Time will tell but after driving 15 miles since completing the job, there are no leaks as of yet and that is an improvement so far. Just to try the fit, I did double up the o-ring and like Dave said, zero chance of that working. Impossible to get it to fit right.

I'm anticipating having another problem sooner than later so in the meantime I'm going to track down a fatter o-ring. I'm wondering if this is another case of our cars being as identical as a snowflake and maybe for some reason the tolerance on my car in this one area is simply different. Doesn't make sense, but???? I do know there had been a history of the same on my car on the driver's side because the first time I did this there was a lot of RTV in place. Zero issues on the passenger's side and I can't remember if I had to do the whole "back off the flange just a bit to get the holes to line up" routine back when I did it.

I'll report back for better or worse.

[kings1527]

The o-ring sits in a groove in the stub axle. Like most O-rings, it's not squished, the flange actually slides over the o-ring to make the seal.

Just re-read this one...thanks again.