Changing the crankshaft pulley - looking for guidance

[Jonathan]

My crankshaft pulley has been a little bent out of shape since I got the car in 2007. It rotates true, the misshapen part is out at the edge. The V groove for the alternator belt got pushed in slightly in one area, so the belt does not sit down nice and flush whenever it passes that spot. It's harder on the belt and I'd like to finally get around to replacing it.

So, how do I do that?

I'd like to hear from others on what parts I need, tools I need or tips on an approach to use.

The crankshaft pulley is p/n 102469 and they are not cheap and not readily available. There are remakes available in the UK though from what I can see. A new nut is p/n 102474.

What else is going to need to be replaced doing this job? Or things I should replace since I'm in there? What seals am I going to have good access to while taking all of this apart?

I know I'll remove the rear fascia and muffler/exhaust. That's all been done before on my car so shouldn't be too terribly difficult other than the time and patience to do it again. I have a couple things I'd like to do with my fascia anyway, so no issue removing it. I'm unclear as to what special tools are needed though, specifically with something to hold the nut and pulley and crankshaft in place while you use some sort of breaker bar extension to free up the torqued on nut. How do you do that?

I'll look to do this sometime in the winter, so no real rush. Just trying to get my ducks in a row ahead of time.

[dmcnc]

I used a quality impact gun and socket on mine and it came out without issues. The nut does take a beating though, so you might have to replace that along with your pulley. I only removed the muffler and the rear fascia lower support bracket for access. I didn't have to remove the rear fascia although it'll certainly help and you might need to if your impact is too big.

As for the seal I was able to track down an original driver for that seal, but you should be able to install it slowly and evenly knocking at it through a block of wood. Key thing is to make sure you coat the outside of the seal with RTV and use some assembly lube on the inside the seal so the inner spring doesn't pop out when you drive the seal and pulley in. Don't forget to sleeve the new pulley BTW.

[Jonathan]

Cool, thanks. And when you used the impact gun on the nut, did you have to do anything to lock the crankshaft itself in place? Or does the engine just naturally do that itself? For some reason I was thinking that it would rotate along with the nut unless you held it in place somehow.

I was wondering about the sleeve. I see it shown as an extra part on the DeLoGO website, but then it's mentioned as already being part of the replacement pulley on the UK website.

Might have to see if I can find a YouTube video showing what you mean about driving it home with the piece of wood and getting the seal in there properly...

[David T]

Unless the crank seal is also leaking, I would see if it is possible to straighten the bend first. Worst case you ruin the pulley and have to replace it which is what you are planning to do anyway.

[Jonathan]

Thankfully there's been no leaking from there on my car. It drips on the other end of the engine, between the engine and trans, but not at that crankshaft pulley.

I'll come back and post a picture of the pinched spot on the pulley later. It's hard to capture because it's only on one section of the pulley and it hides if the engine doesn't turn off with the particular portion pointing down.

I know my limitations pretty well and I don't give myself credit for being able to hammer this dent out nice with it still on the car. I just don't have that kind of flexibility or patience anymore. So if it has to come off the car to get it fixed, then I'm back with the same job, just whether I put a new part on or the old one again. I'd like to think the pulley can be repaired, just not by my hands unfortunately.

[SS Spoiler]

be sure to have crank rotated with the pulley key
vertical so it doesn't fall in the oil pan when the
pulley comes off....

[dmcnc]

The engine didn't turn at all with the impact so no need to lock it. Like mentioned above, I would also make sure the woodruff key is facing up. Also, after installing the seal, make sure you use some oil (or assembly lube) on the outside of the installed pulley sleeve (where it contacts the seal).


Cool, thanks. And when you used the impact gun on the nut, did you have to do anything to lock the crankshaft itself in place? Or does the engine just naturally do that itself? For some reason I was thinking that it would rotate along with the nut unless you held it in place somehow.
...

[DMC-81]

Hi Jonathan,

In addition to what was posted above I would suggest that you do not need to remove the rear facia depending on the tools that you have available. You do need to remove the exhaust and the lower support bracket (P/N 101764), at least that is what I found in my experience. I used an impact wrench and a short 35 mm socket to remove the crankshaft nut. You'll also need an appropriate gear puller to remove the crankshaft pulley without damage. I bought special flywheel lock tool for use with my manual transmission to lock the engine in place but I'll defer to others whether you need that for the automatic transmission. I think the use of an impact wrench negates or reduces the need for this lock tool on removal, at least that's what I found with my car. But where you will need a locking mechanism is when you retorque that nut to 135 ft/lbs on installation. Here are some pictures:

Approach to remove the crankshaft pulley with just the exhaust removed:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40189&d=1456668603

Tools used:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40191&d=1456668998

After removing the nut and washer, I marked the position of the woodruff key on the pulley. Then I reinstalled the nut just tight enough to rotate the engine to get the key in the 12 o'clock position:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40190&d=1456668712

New seal: (In this pic you can see the woodruff key on the crankshaft positioned at 12 o'clock as mentioned in above posts)
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40193&d=1456669166

All buttoned up:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=40194&d=1456669195

[David T]

Trying to fix the pulley isn't all that hard. I would find a short piece of round stock that fits the groove nicely and then using a small hammer, try to force the bent part out and once near straight, hammer it back against the piece of round stock. Take your time and move the metal in small increments. Perfection is not required.

[Jonathan]

Wow, very helpful. Thanks guys.

Good call on it not needing to be perfect. I can definitely try banging it back into shape and smoothing down any rough edges. I think I had forgotten how low the pulley is and that you can go straight at it from underneath the lower lip of the fascia. Might not need to remove the fascia afterall.

What is the part number on the seal I would need in there? I'm not 100% clear on where/how it goes in along with the sleeve. That gear puller looks like a good way to go. Especially trying to pull it off straight and not all cock-eyed.

That makes sense to me about needing to lock the engine in position for at least one of the directions... either tightening or loosening the nut. Is there a definitive way to do this on the automatic transmissions? I don't have any of those types of locking gadgets at the moment.

[Drive Stainless]

I have a good used crank pulley if you need one (with nut).

[Parzival]

I removed mine without removing the fascia. Mine was REALLY on there. After trying with a breaker bar, I gave up and got this impact driver. It's low profile so it will fit in without removing the fascia and it knocked it loose in no time.
https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-ultra-compact-xtreme-torque-stubby-air-impact-wrench-63534.html

[dn010]

Only way I was able to remove mine was to heat the nut with a torch and it spun right off, not sure if someone used thread locker on it or what but without the heat it didn't budge.

[Jonathan]

Spring is almost here and revisiting this job I need to do on my car.

Does anyone have a picture that would show where the "sleeve" goes in this process? I see the suggestion to "resleeve" but don't know what that means.

Also, David T., if I'm going to try and bang this dent back into shape and get away from replacing it entirely, am I still going to need to remove the pulley to work on it on a workbench? Or can I do my banging it back into shape still attached to the engine? Wasn't sure if that was a good idea or not to do it while still attached over concern for banging something else unintendedly crooked.

[David T]

Spring is almost here and revisiting this job I need to do on my car.

Does anyone have a picture that would show where the "sleeve" goes in this process? I see the suggestion to "resleeve" but don't know what that means.

Also, David T., if I'm going to try and bang this dent back into shape and get away from replacing it entirely, am I still going to need to remove the pulley to work on it on a workbench? Or can I do my banging it back into shape still attached to the engine? Wasn't sure if that was a good idea or not to do it while still attached over concern for banging something else unintendedly crooked.

Depends on a lot of factors. Access, your level of skill, how bad the dent is, etc. Off the car, on a bench, you have a lot more control.

[Jonathan]

Depends on a lot of factors. Access, your level of skill, how bad the dent is, etc. Off the car, on a bench, you have a lot more control.

Ok, understood. I wouldn't expect to need to hit it so hard that I put a warp in the crankshaft itself. Figure though if I remove it to work on it I would just replace it with new. This is partly because I looked recently and the replacements are half the cost of what they used to be, which is good news to be certain.

Still not sure if I need to buy this new replacement "speedi sleeve"? Not sure where that goes or if that is something you only need to replace if you're reusing your old pulley. I can't seem to visualize where that sleeve goes looking at the parts diagrams or pictures online.

[dn010]

Ok, understood. I wouldn't expect to need to hit it so hard that I put a warp in the crankshaft itself. Figure though if I remove it to work on it I would just replace it with new. This is partly because I looked recently and the replacements are half the cost of what they used to be, which is good news to be certain.

Still not sure if I need to buy this new replacement "speedi sleeve"? Not sure where that goes or if that is something you only need to replace if you're reusing your old pulley. I can't seem to visualize where that sleeve goes looking at the parts diagrams or pictures online.


The only way to know if you need one or not is to remove the pulley and see if it has a groove worn into it. If there is, you get the sleeve, hammer it down over the groove so the seal has a nice, flat surface to ride on. Here would be an example:

https://bwparts.com/speedi-sleeve.html

However, you mention that you don't have any leaks from the pulley area itself so I think it would be safe to say that you do not need a sleeve.

[Ron]

Not for a DeLorean, but you can get the idea:
65727
They are only needed if the pulley's mating surface for the seal has been damaged causing an oil leak (usually from dirt cutting a groove).

A few pics would help us in making suggestions WRT straightening it.

EDIT: Just saw Speedy Dan's post...:)

[FABombjoy]

Here's a pic of mine on a DMC pulley.
65728

[Jonathan]

Perfect. I get what it's for now. I think I got thrown off by looking at the installation cup as it's described in one of those links. Couldn't picture how that fit in until realizing it didn't (install tool only). Thanks for the help.

[cdrusn]

If you are doing this just to keep it from rubbing on the fan belt why can't you just use a flat file or even a dremel tool to grind down
the dented in portion?

[Jonathan]

If you are doing this just to keep it from rubbing on the fan belt why can't you just use a flat file or even a dremel tool to grind down
the dented in portion?

I might have to try and go out to the garage and take some different pictures to show you. It's a challenge to photograph well because of the lighting and also because it depends on where the engine rotation happens to stop. The portion that's pushed in slightly is only on the alternator belt part of the pulley. And it's maybe less than an inch long, so what, like 30 degrees perhaps total out of the 360 degrees that make up the entire circumference.

It's not really something that you'd grind down as it isn't a burr or little nub. It's that when one side of that V groove is pushed in slightly, the belt does not sit down in that groove anymore for that small section. As the pulley rotates round and round, much of the time that little 30 degree section isn't touching the belt. But every revolution, it tends to bump the belt out a little bit because it won't sit down in the groove nice and flat like it does on the rest of the pulley portions. So it wobbles. And since there is also some rougher parts of that surface now because it's been like that for so long, it has knicked the belt a couple times and started a fray. And I also think the wobble is adding extra wear on the bearings inside the alternator.

Here's a pic I had from last season.

65731

Notice just to the right of where the belt is covering you can see the top edge of the pulley groove pushed in towards the centre. It's dark and hard to see, like I said, it's difficult to photograph. I think it could be fixed with David's suggestion of reshaping it using a small piece of rod that would fit in the groove and let you bang that edge back out a little at a time until you got it where you want it.

What I might do is take the alternator belt off and perhaps the muffler and bracket and better photograph and assess what I have to work with. I'll post those pictures here when I do.

[DMC-81]

I might have to try and go out to the garage and take some different pictures to show you. It's a challenge to photograph well because of the lighting and also because it depends on where the engine rotation happens to stop. The portion that's pushed in slightly is only on the alternator belt part of the pulley. And it's maybe less than an inch long, so what, like 30 degrees perhaps total out of the 360 degrees that make up the entire circumference.

It's not really something that you'd grind down as it isn't a burr or little nub. It's that when one side of that V groove is pushed in slightly, the belt does not sit down in that groove anymore for that small section. As the pulley rotates round and round, much of the time that little 30 degree section isn't touching the belt. But every revolution, it tends to bump the belt out a little bit because it won't sit down in the groove nice and flat like it does on the rest of the pulley portions. So it wobbles. And since there is also some rougher parts of that surface now because it's been like that for so long, it has knicked the belt a couple times and started a fray. And I also think the wobble is adding extra wear on the bearings inside the alternator.

Here's a pic I had from last season.

65731

Notice just to the right of where the belt is covering you can see the top edge of the pulley groove pushed in towards the centre. It's dark and hard to see, like I said, it's difficult to photograph. I think it could be fixed with David's suggestion of reshaping it using a small piece of rod that would fit in the groove and let you bang that edge back out a little at a time until you got it where you want it.

What I might do is take the alternator belt off and perhaps the muffler and bracket and better photograph and assess what I have to work with. I'll post those pictures here when I do.

Jonathan,

To expand on David's T's suggestion, can you try to bend out the pushed in section with a vise? You can protect the pulley with one paint stirrer or soft flat metal stock on each side of the vise jaws. You may have to devise a jig set-up because of the small V area. If so, you would want to start with the normal area to get a feel for what the appropriate angle is, and rotate the pulley in your jig towards the damaged area and beyond. Gently tighten the vise each time (e.g. like tighten, release, rotate an inch, and then repeat). Always look at your work in the process mid-stream to ensure you are on the right track and not bending too much. Just be patient. I prefer this method versus hitting the part with a hammer which does an uneven job and adds hammer marks (in my experience).

I had to do a similar operation on an NLA drive axle flange component that was previously wallowed out by letting the axles hang. On this part, I used circular supports/protectors (PVC pipe) that were a similar diameter as the part. It turned out just as good as new.

Here are pics:
Damaged:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65736&d=1615211711

Repaired:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65737&d=1615211774

[Ron]

Something else you might try-
Cover an undamaged portion of the groove with Saran Wrap and pack it with Sonic Weld to get the right shape, leaving an ample amount protruding to strike with a small hammer...

[Jonathan]

We can circle back and try some of the dent repair ideas afterwards as I went ahead and bought a new replacement pulley. And a new nut, and seal, and belt, and alternator. Been a while since I bought anything for the car so this is good. Should be here in a couple of days.

I think I have a good handle on getting the nut loosened, but what I want to hear from one of you is what tools or procedures are needed for getting the nut back to the torque it needs to be? I have the torque wrench, that's the easy part. I wasn't sure what needs to be done to "lock" the engine in place while you tighten it? I have an automatic transmission on a stock engine with pretty much everything else on the car stock too.

[DMC-81]

We can circle back and try some of the dent repair ideas afterwards as I went ahead and bought a new replacement pulley. And a new nut, and seal, and belt, and alternator. Been a while since I bought anything for the car so this is good. Should be here in a couple of days.

I think I have a good handle on getting the nut loosened, but what I want to hear from one of you is what tools or procedures are needed for getting the nut back to the torque it needs to be? I have the torque wrench, that's the easy part. I wasn't sure what needs to be done to "lock" the engine in place while you tighten it? I have an automatic transmission on a stock engine with pretty much everything else on the car stock too.

Excellent. A new pulley is even better. I'll defer to others whether putting the transmission in Park is enough/advisable.

[TTait]

Thankfully there's been no leaking from there on my car. It drips on the other end of the engine, between the engine and trans, but not at that crankshaft pulley.

Before you resign yourself to repairing the main seal in the future - take a long close look at that leak at the other end of the engine - I thought I had a leaking main seal, but it was higher up leaking past the main seal, thankfully.

Get the car up on ramps and get way back under there and clean everything down there back to as clean as possible - get all the grime and oil off and pristine if you can. if you have a few suspect areas you can try overlapping a thin strap of paper towel with painter tape below watch suspect area to catch leaks immediate at the source. Run the engine briefly, and check, and for progressively longer and hotter until the leak reveals itself. The camshaft closing plates, valve cover gaskets, and blanking plates on the head may leak and look like a rear main seal. Soooooo much easier to fix!


Fingers crossed for you.

Tom

[Ron]

Excellent. A new pulley is even better. I'll defer to others whether putting the transmission in Park is enough/advisable.
+1


...Park will not help hold it at all -- Jamb up the torque converter/flexplate through the bell housing/starter hole.

[Jonathan]

+1


...Park will not help hold it at all -- Jamb up the torque converter/flexplate through the bell housing/starter hole.

Ok.... any details on how to accomplish this? Assuming not using Spaceballs jam? :)

[Ron]

lol.
I'd disconnect the battery, jack up the rear -- place jack stands, remove the starter. Get a very large screwdriver and place it in the flexplate. Make sure you get a good bite so that you don't damage the teeth etc. Tighten until the engine turns and binds aqainst the the screwdriver. Add Loctite to threads. Double check that you have a good bite and tighten to 135 ft.lb. (183 Nm)

[Jonathan]

My parts arrived today. The newly made crankshaft pulley among other things. I'm a little perplexed though as it's kinda banged up a little. There are at least 3 fairly significant "cuts" or short grooves right into the outer edge. On at least one of them, the small piece of metal that got removed from that spot is still hanging off the underside like a burr.

What happened here do you think? It sure didn't seem like something that would have happened during shipping as the box was not damaged and everything inside was pretty well packed. Is there a reason these little cuts need to be in the pulley? I can't think of any. It just looks to me like it got unnecessarily damaged somehow. I'm not super thrilled with the idea of putting it on my car the way it is. Not with the amount of work needed to remove the one on my car... that is coming off because it's damaged. Not to mention this part was not cheap, nor were the rest of the things in my order.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Pictures of your own pulleys or if you also bought a new one whether yours looked like this too? Thanks.

65764657636576265761

[DMC-81]

My parts arrived today. The newly made crankshaft pulley among other things. I'm a little perplexed though as it's kinda banged up a little. There are at least 3 fairly significant "cuts" or short grooves right into the outer edge. On at least one of them, the small piece of metal that got removed from that spot is still hanging off the underside like a burr.

What happened here do you think? It sure didn't seem like something that would have happened during shipping as the box was not damaged and everything inside was pretty well packed. Is there a reason these little cuts need to be in the pulley? I can't think of any. It just looks to me like it got unnecessarily damaged somehow. I'm not super thrilled with the idea of putting it on my car the way it is. Not with the amount of work needed to remove the one on my car... that is coming off because it's damaged. Not to mention this part was not cheap, nor were the rest of the things in my order.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Pictures of your own pulleys or if you also bought a new one whether yours looked like this too? Thanks.

65764657636576265761

Hi Jonathan,

I believe those cuts are normal. They are timing marks, one main cut and a shallower cut in another area as I recall. Here is my re-plated pulley where you can see the deeper cut along the bottom:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65765&d=1615504498

I'll look on my car to see if I see a third mark....

[DMC-81]

I checked my car and I saw 2 timing marks on the pulley as follows:

The deeper one (also pictured above):
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65766&d=1615515091


The smaller one (to the right of the timing plate:
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65767&d=1615515091

I didn't see a third one.

P.S. Excuse the dirt on the engine. I've been driving on most weekends.

[Jonathan]

Thanks Dana. Most helpful seeing those pics and your explanation. I think my new pulley is likely just fine afterall.

My apologies for at first assuming something was wrong on the new part and that I got screwed somehow. Doesn't appear to be the case. You know what this past year of living stuck at home, with no apparent end in sight, wondering what is the point anymore has done? It's turned everything sour, so that my first inkling isn't to expect something good out of the day, it's to expect the worst. This has been one gigantic shitty rut. Not just for me. Everyone has their own version. Kinda hoping the day comes where something turns out easier than expected, rather than a big hassle. I would take just feeling a small bit of joy doing anything in life right about now because I forget what that feels like.

[DMC-81]

Thanks Dana. Most helpful seeing those pics and your explanation. I think my new pulley is likely just fine afterall.

My apologies for at first assuming something was wrong on the new part and that I got screwed somehow. Doesn't appear to be the case. You know what this past year of living stuck at home, with no apparent end in sight, wondering what is the point anymore has done? It's turned everything sour, so that my first inkling isn't to expect something good out of the day, it's to expect the worst. This has been one gigantic shitty rut. Not just for me. Everyone has their own version. Kinda hoping the day comes where something turns out easier than expected, rather than a big hassle. I would take just feeling a small bit of joy doing anything in life right about now because I forget what that feels like.

You're welcome, and no worries. It's been a nightmarish year that's for sure. But take heart, spring is just around the corner..
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65779&d=1615610902
:)

[Jonathan]

You're welcome, and no worries. It's been a nightmarish year that's for sure. But take heart, spring is just around the corner..
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65779&d=1615610902
:)

Haha, thanks. Yea, everyone has had their own version of a craptacular year with covid. Definitely ready for it to be over... and Spring to arrive. :)

I did get a few more of the things I think I'll need for the pulley job.

Tools:
Impact wrench
35 mm socket
Pulley puller
Torque wrench (reinstall)
Large screwdriver (for preventing the engine from rotating when torqueing the nut back on... I am not 100% clear on where I am sticking said large screwdriver though...)

Parts:
Crankshaft pulley
Crankshaft pulley nut
New seal
I also am going to be replacing the alternator with a new one (110 Amp version from DeLoGO/Europe) and have a new belt to go on as well
Locktite for pulley nut (which kind or colour btw?)
Oil/Assembly lube
And I also have some new exhaust component gaskets on hand if they are needed upon reassembling everything I took out or off

[DMC-81]

You're welcome. I used red loctite on the nut.

[Jonathan]

And it begins!!! Whooohoo! Call me strange, but I look at the filthy mess I now have good access to and all I can think of is how I'm going to enjoy taking my sweet time cleaning things up and doing a handful of other smaller jobs that are now a whole lot easier because of the access. If anyone ever asks what else it takes more than just money to do this hobby... this is it (cuckoo!! lol).

6653166532

[Jonathan]

Making more progress. The nut came off a LOT easier than I expected it to. First try with the impact gun and it spun it loose. Big difference having all that other stuff out of the way and getting directly lined up on it with a good socket and whatnot.

It's filthy back there and I should clean it better than it is so far, but hey, trying to make my car look like Dana's or Michael's isn't going to happen!

My nut isn't torqued on there yet as I still need to go grab some red loctite. I was really only thinking of test fitting everything, but considering how snug and precise the fit is for the pulley on that shaft, I don't think I want to remove it again.

Besides torqueing the nut properly which I need to remove the starter to do, I have a brand new alternator to put in, new battery cables, a new starter heatshield and a handful of other things I might do while it's apart. I have new bearings for my A/C idler pulleys and I might do that at the same time.

I think that's about it. Man, what a relief to get that nut off so easily. Relatively easy anyway. It was all in the prep work for me this time around!!

6656066559665616656266563

[Jonathan]

You're welcome. I used red loctite on the nut.

Hey Dana,

Do you recall what torque value you used on the three mounting bolts for the starter? I don't see it listed in the manual. I have the starter reinstalled, but haven't torqued down the bolts yet. Thanks.

[DMC-81]

Hey Dana,

Do you recall what torque value you used on the three mounting bolts for the starter? I don't see it listed in the manual. I have the starter reinstalled, but haven't torqued down the bolts yet. Thanks.

Hi Jonathan, I used 21 ft/lbs. (Source M:02:04 )
66586

[Ron]

Hi Jonathan, I used 21 ft/lbs. (Source M:02:04 )
66586I see "Locked Torque": 28 Nm (20.6 ft./lb.)", but that is the torque the starter develops starting at zero speed??

I don't know the DMC spec, but Chrysler calls out 27 Ft. Lbs. (50 N.m) for Paris-Rhone starters.

[DMC-81]

I see "Locked Torque": 28 Nm (20.6 ft./lb.)", but that is the torque the starter develops starting at zero speed??

I don't know the DMC spec, but Chrysler calls out 27 Ft. Lbs. (50 N.m) for Paris-Rhone starters.

I'll defer to Ron's advice.

[Jonathan]

I see "Locked Torque": 28 Nm (20.6 ft./lb.)", but that is the torque the starter develops starting at zero speed??

I don't know the DMC spec, but Chrysler calls out 27 Ft. Lbs. (50 N.m) for Paris-Rhone starters.


I'll defer to Ron's advice.

Thank you both. I had wondered about that reference in the manual and whether it meant it was the torque the starter generated and not the mounting bolt torque. All good. I'll go with the 27 ft lb as Ron noted from the Chrysler manual.

Dana... Ron posted that at 7:08 pm. How long did it take you to go out to the garage and retorque your starter? :)

[DMC-81]

Thank you both. I had wondered about that reference in the manual and whether it meant it was the torque the starter generated and not the mounting bolt torque. All good. I'll go with the 27 ft lb as Ron noted from the Chrysler manual.

Dana... Ron posted that at 7:08 pm. How long did it take you to go out to the garage and retorque your starter? :)

You're welcome. Lol. I haven't yet. :)

Due to the inherent vibration on the starter, I applied blue loctite. Considering the lubrication of the threadlocker, I probably applied closer to Ron's spec anyway. So far so good after this many years.

[Jonathan]

I'm pretty much done with installing the new replacement parts I had to do and ready to put things back together. I was hoping to get some clarification on something though as it pertains to the starter heatshield and the positive battery cable connections right below it.

I got the crankshaft pulley and new nut on and torqued. Got the starter put back on that I had removed to torque that nut. I replaced my alternator with a new one and put new battery cables in (positive and negative right to the battery compartment plus the jump start cable that stays in the engine bay).

I have also had a new (design as well as just new condition because the originals were made of asbestos) starter heatshield sitting in a box and I got that installed too. I never had any known issues with my starter getting heat damage from the exhaust manifold above it, I just realized one day my heatshield was missing so looked at getting one.

My concern is how close the bottom side of that heatshield is to the tip of the battery cables that all attach on that same lug on the starter. I'm not concerned because they might rub and wear down or anything. My concern is because that new heatshield is all metal and since it is directly attached to the engine block, this to me would be a direct short circuit from positive side of the battery to the negative side with no fusing whatsoever in between.

Would it do this short circuiting if that positive lead were to move slightly and come into contact with the bottom of the heatshield?

That (new) red rubber boot on the end of the longer positive cable is a bizarre design as to me there is no way to get both positive cables into it AND have the ends of those cables fitting over the lug and tightened down. So that rubber boot covers one cable but not the other.

Am I right to be worried about this? What's the solution here?

I can take the heatshield out if need be. I never had one before anyway and it can just as easily go back into a box. Thanks!

66649666506665166652

[DMCMW Dave]

My concern is how close the bottom side of that heatshield is to the tip of the battery cables that all attach on that same lug on the starter. I'm not concerned because they might rub and wear down or anything. My concern is because that new heatshield is all metal and since it is directly attached to the engine block, this to me would be a direct short circuit from positive side of the battery to the negative side with no fusing whatsoever in between.

Would it do this short circuiting if that positive lead were to move slightly and come into contact with the bottom of the heatshield?

Yes, Bad Things would happen.


That (new) red rubber boot on the end of the longer positive cable is a bizarre design as to me there is no way to get both positive cables into it AND have the ends of those cables fitting over the lug and tightened down. So that rubber boot covers one cable but not the other.

It can be done.


Am I right to be worried about this?

Yes


What's the solution here?

Put it together correctly. You are correct, it's a pain in the neck.


I can take the heatshield out if need be. I never had one before anyway and it can just as easily go back into a box. Thanks!


Removing the heat shield is second best but it is possible to put the wiring all into the rubber cover.

[Jonathan]

...It can be done.

Thanks a lot, Dave.

I took it off for the time being. I happened to also buy a new boot separately and may try and wrap my head around how it is supposed to go sitting comfortably in a chair using my old cables. And then try again to get it right while back underneath the car.

While I don't miss all the early things that were wrong or broken on my car... and I'm sure you're enjoying retirement more than working... I sure do miss working with you. Figuring things out and chatting about stuff. Julee too. Hope SC is treating both of you well :)

[Jonathan]

Got it all back together and she fired right up. Well, not quite right away, but after a few tries. I tried to start it and it would whoomph and go and then immediately die. It did this 3-4 times in a row. I stopped that for the moment and had a look. Nothing out of place and rechecked all the electrical connections in the bulkhead area and on the alternator and starter. I thought maybe electrical even though it almost felt like it stopped because there was no where for the exhaust to go. Or getting air in.

I gave the gas pedal a few pushes and then when I tried again it started and idled a little rough but then settled out. If it was an air restriction, it might have been because of me leaning my elbows on the air filter housing and perhaps impeding the free movement of the air plate underneath. I know I did this once before when I didn't have the thing perfectly centred.

Anyway, good to go there... but...

Two things concern me still:

1... is the exhaust clamp where the catalytic converter meets the muffler. After warming up for a few minutes, I am getting white "smoke" coming up from that spot. I say smoke, even though it isn't anything burning as best I can tell and it doesn't have much of an odour. I mean it does smell of course, it just isn't overpowering. I assume it is exhaust anyway, but hard to tell trying to stick your head down there while the engine is running lol.

So is there a trick to getting that clamp to seal? I bought a brand new SS and pretty one and put it on in what I think is the same location as it was. I can't really tell how far into the female end of the cat pipe the male end of the muffler piece goes. Those slits down the tip of the cat end could be the source of the leak I guess... but I'm not sure really. Is there some standard way these are supposed to be connected and clamped that I'm not realizing?

I did use some Krown spray (PB Blaster equivalent) on that old clamp and so I guess it could be that excess burning off, but that's not necessarily it. I'd just like some ideas or comments from those that have done their own exhaust before.

Oh, and the second thing that concerns me is my brand new crankshaft pulley I swear does not rotate perfectly straight. When the engine is running and idling and you stand there looking from the side, it sure looks like there is some small amount of movement. There's nothing to notice looking at the centre where the nut is, but out towards the edges, it seems like it's moving in addition to rotating.

I can see about taking a short video and posting here if that sounds weird. I can't imagine I bent the crankshaft or anything like that, but maybe the new pulley went on with just the slightest of off centreness. I used my hands and eyes to push it on with a little bit of gear oil on the surface, but not any kind of exacting tool. I hadn't thought to use one or even look to see if that was required.

Again, just hoping for some insight from those that know. Thanks!!

[Jonathan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwYo_hbn3CQ

Does this look like a straight exhaust leak at the clamp between the catalytic convertor and the muffler? Or does it look like some PB Blaster burning off of the outside of the pipe because I sprayed it there earlier when taking things apart?

It doesn't do this immediately. The car needs to warm up a little first, like say in upwards of 4-5 minutes worth. I've done this warm-up and see smoke about 3 times now and it's the same thing each time. Clamp is quite tight at the moment. I didn't do anything special to prepare those two exhaust pipe ends prior to putting them back together.

The clamp is a new SS one from DeLoGO and my next move is to remove it completely and compare it to my old rusty one to see if it's not the right shape or size.

[Ron]

If you don't see similar coming from the tail pipes, I'd guess it's just the PB etc. burning off.
Let it get good and hot then rinse it off with a water hose.

[Jonathan]

If you don't see similar coming from the tail pipes, I'd guess it's just the PB etc. burning off.
Let it get good and hot then rinse it off with a water hose.

Good call on the hose, Ron. I did that last night and then went for a drive. My usual lap of 40 or so miles and everything was fine. Thanks.

[Helirich]

The smoke was probably just residue junk from your hands and the PB burning off.

On the pulley, I have a diesel truck and you would sware its pulley is bent or out of round when the truck is running. I removed the mount bolts and rotated it with a dial indicator on the edge two differnt ways. It was dead true. I guess the crank could be bent. (Unlikely) I think an engine just gives that illusion. If your really worried, you could pull the spark plugs and rotate it with a dial indicator. That would rule out the crank too.

[Jonathan]

The smoke was probably just residue junk from your hands and the PB burning off.

On the pulley, I have a diesel truck and you would sware its pulley is bent or out of round when the truck is running. I removed the mount bolts and rotated it with a dial indicator on the edge two differnt ways. It was dead true. I guess the crank could be bent. (Unlikely) I think an engine just gives that illusion. If your really worried, you could pull the spark plugs and rotate it with a dial indicator. That would rule out the crank too.

Thanks for that. It is a bit of an illusion. And hard to capture on camera. Like our eyes see it in person, but not otherwise. And the engine itself is moving a little bit too in the mounts, especially at idle when you first turn it on.

I'll just leave it as is and monitor for anything further unusual. Cheers.

[82DMC12]

\ If your really worried, you could pull the spark plugs and rotate it with a dial indicator. That would rule out the crank too.

I'm just now reading this thread... what are you suggesting here? You're saying he could see if the crank is bent by checking TDC value as per the dial indicator in each piston? I've never seen anyone do this so I watched this video which makes sense. I guess if the crank were bent you would see variance in different pistons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKTNKGCeOkc