Doing brake pads... how far do I go while I'm in there?

[rjd2]

Hey folks, so my front pads are getting noisy, thus I've been planning a brake job for the winter. I did a few buys over the last year or so, and here's what I have on site:

-brake pads
-caliper rebuild kits
-full set of suspension bushings
-axle/cv boots
-new brake MC

I did stainless steel brake hoses a year or two back, FYI. Should I just go whole hog, and do all of this at once? And if so, is there anything else that I should replace while I'm doing a brake/suspension overhaul? What should I have on my radar that I may be overlooking? Thanks for the advice.

[Michael]

You can replace a set of pads in about 20 min per corner. There is no real overlapping labor so there is no "while I'm in there" work to be done when replacing just pads.

If you have to rebuild calipers then of course hold off on pads till then.

[rjd2]

Thanks Michael-I was getting a squealing at the front brakes, so I assumed the pads had hit the warning pin. I pulled the wheels and pads this morning, and lo and behold, the front pads have only a marginal amount of wear(I probably have 15k miles left on them). When I turn the rotors manually, I am not getting a uniform amount of resistance; I get a rotational "waiver", as though the rotor is either wearing unevenly, or misaligned. I get this on BOTH front rotors. What would cause this? The calipers themselves look clean to me, so I think I'll hold off on a caliper rebuild. My brakes are only slightly spongy at the first few inches of throw at the pedal, but I can stomp the pedal, and the car comes to a halt. Less responsive than a modern car, but not entirely problematic. All advice welcome! Thanks folks.

[David T]

PJ Grady sells a hardware kit for the calipers that includes springs to control brake squeal. You can also lightly scuff up the rotors and pads to expose fresh surfaces to stop the noise and auto stores sell stuff you can put on the backs of the brake pads to stop the noise. If the brake fluid hasn't been flushed lately, it might be time to do it. It should be done every 2 years or if it is very dark and thick looking.

[Michael]

Thanks Michael-I was getting a squealing at the front brakes, so I assumed the pads had hit the warning pin. I pulled the wheels and pads this morning, and lo and behold, the front pads have only a marginal amount of wear(I probably have 15k miles left on them). When I turn the rotors manually, I am not getting a uniform amount of resistance; I get a rotational "waiver", as though the rotor is either wearing unevenly, or misaligned. I get this on BOTH front rotors. What would cause this? The calipers themselves look clean to me, so I think I'll hold off on a caliper rebuild. My brakes are only slightly spongy at the first few inches of throw at the pedal, but I can stomp the pedal, and the car comes to a halt. Less responsive than a modern car, but not entirely problematic. All advice welcome! Thanks folks.

Sounds like the rotors may be warped. As cheap as they are and pretty easy to replace I would just do new pads and rotors. When you do the pads make sure the anti squeal plates are not missing and they are oriented properly (stamped arrow shows the direction of travel). Even with the anti squeal plates, I still use brake paste. If the fluid is dirty it would be a good time to change it while you have easy access to the bleeder.

That and an afternoon of time should get you up and running.

[rjd2]

So Delorean is out of the stock style front rotors.... I've turned a number of rotors in my day at my local shop, but they have all been vented/dual surface. Is it a fools errand to turn these front rotors? It doesnt look like there's a ton of real estate to lose there. Also, Deloreango.com has vented front rotors with calipers for $477. Have any of you done this upgrade? Any noticeable difference? My stock calipers are in good shape, but it looks like clearance MIGHT be an issue with the stock calipers. I would like to have a bit more response at the brakes, if I'm being honest with myself. Curious if there's feedback out there on these new rotors.

[Michael]

So Delorean is out of the stock style front rotors.... I've turned a number of rotors in my day at my local shop, but they have all been vented/dual surface. Is it a fools errand to turn these front rotors? It doesnt look like there's a ton of real estate to lose there. Also, Deloreango.com has vented front rotors with calipers for $477. Have any of you done this upgrade? Any noticeable difference? My stock calipers are in good shape, but it looks like clearance MIGHT be an issue with the stock calipers. I would like to have a bit more response at the brakes, if I'm being honest with myself. Curious if there's feedback out there on these new rotors.

Next spring I am stepping it up. I took my car on a mountain drive at out tech meet a few months ago. I had brand new EBC green stuff pads with OE rotors. I wasn't driving too terribly aggressive and still managed to glaze a pad over. I would ask Aaron if the upgraded rotors work with the stock calipers and if so, go for it..and let me know because that's what I will do. That said, $500 for rotors AND calipers is very attractive in it's own right.

Edit, looks like the vented set will work with stock calipers, according to the description anyway:

https://www.deloreango.com/us/catalog/product/view/id/773/

[rjd2]

Next spring I am stepping it up. I took my car on a mountain drive at out tech meet a few months ago. I had brand new EBC green stuff pads with OE rotors. I wasn't driving too terribly aggressive and still managed to glaze a pad over. I would ask Aaron if the upgraded rotors work with the stock calipers and if so, go for it..and let me know because that's what I will do. That said, $500 for rotors AND calipers is very attractive in it's own right.

Yea-for $477 for the whole package, it's a helluva deal. I spent $350 for labor alone on a 4 caliper rebuild on another car this year. I think I'm just gonna go for the whole package, and then I can do the install in one clean phase. Will report back. Even though I re-bled when I did SS hoses, I'll bleed all 4 corners again, and make 100% sure I've got no bubbles, and then I can call it as to the degree of improvement over the OEM brakes.

[Michael]

Yea-for $477 for the whole package, it's a helluva deal. I spent $350 for labor alone on a 4 caliper rebuild on another car this year. I think I'm just gonna go for the whole package, and then I can do the install in one clean phase. Will report back. Even though I re-bled when I did SS hoses, I'll bleed all 4 corners again, and make 100% sure I've got no bubbles, and then I can call it as to the degree of improvement over the OEM brakes.

I don't know if you saw my edit, but according to the site description the vented rotors will work with the oe calipers and from what I could tell, their calipers are no better or worse than stock, so if yours are good, save your money.

[rjd2]

Quick note: I received the new rotors from Deloreango.com-I bought the calipers with the rotors, as I had a hunch that the OEM calipers probably woulndt be wide enough to fit the new vented rotors. Sure enough, they don't-the factory calipers are too narrow for the vented rotor to even fit into. Wanted to let you folks know; I'll report back once installed with results.

[rjd2]

Question regarding bushings: is it possible to change out the a-arm bushings without pulling the springs? I found one video of someone pulling the upper a-arm outwards with the spring in place. can the lower be done as well?

[Mark D]

Question regarding bushings: is it possible to change out the a-arm bushings without pulling the springs? I found one video of someone pulling the upper a-arm outwards with the spring in place. can the lower be done as well?

The upper control arm isn't directly attached to the shock/spring so that is why it can be removed independently. You'd still have to free the upper ball joint from the steering knuckle if you wanted to remove the upper arm completely.

The lower control arm supports the bottom of the shock and spring, so the shock and spring have to be removed first before unbolting the lower control arm from the frame. You'll need to use a spring compressor to safely remove the spring.

This was the style of compressor I used when I rebuilt my suspension a few years ago and installed Eibach lowering springs.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=32612&d=1421856166

The shock is what holds the LCA from being pushed down too far by the spring and over-extending into the frame and damaging it.

Here's another pic from reassembly.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=32483&d=1421355357

[rjd2]

Thanks so much Mark! I am definitely getting that "peeling of the onion thing" going here.... Can you tell me your thoughts on the ride feel, and general happiness with your suspension upgrades? I am fairly sure my car was lowered at one point; the stance definitely does not look as high as stock 80's photos. With that said, the struts and springs look old, and the rubber bushings are visibly cracking. Winter is setting in, brake system is already out of the car, so now is really the time to do whatever I'm gonna do.... Appreciate your feedback on the Eibach suspension upgrade.

[Mark D]

Thanks so much Mark! I am definitely getting that "peeling of the onion thing" going here.... Can you tell me your thoughts on the ride feel, and general happiness with your suspension upgrades? I am fairly sure my car was lowered at one point; the stance definitely does not look as high as stock 80's photos. With that said, the struts and springs look old, and the rubber bushings are visibly cracking. Winter is setting in, brake system is already out of the car, so now is really the time to do whatever I'm gonna do.... Appreciate your feedback on the Eibach suspension upgrade.

Overall I'm very happy with the suspension choices I made when I did my rebuild. Up front I have the Eibach lowering springs and SPAX shocks that DMCH / DMCMW was offering as their upgrade package back in 2011 when I started. The shocks have adjustment settings for damping so there is a little bit of control over ride quality. I have mine set towards the firmer side but they are not as jarring as the stock suspension was.

I also have poly bushings on the front upper and lower control arms, as well as the front sway bar mounts to the frame and where they install into the LCA. I installed lower control arm support braces with poly bushings as you can see in that last photo. Those help maintain proper suspension geometry during hard braking and cornering. Somewhere on the board is a video of a stock suspension setup and it's pretty crazy how much fore/aft movement there is with the LCA when you brake hard.

For the rear I have Eibach springs and SPAX shocks as well. The the shocks have an adjustable collar where it supports the spring perch to adjust ride height. I'm running just sligtly under the stock ride height from what I measured before I started the rebuild. I went with DMCH reproduction rubber bushings for all of the upper and lower control links on the rear suspension. I reused the existing trailing arm bushings since they had no signs of aging or wear.

I swapped all the parts in one shot so it's hard to tell what the biggest contributor was to improving the handling. Getting the front ride height down to a reasonable level and no longer having positive camber was probably a big one in my case. I also rebuilt my steering rack which had blown out bushings, and replaced the wobbly steering column bushing. Also rebuilt brakes, clutch, and the cooling system, and touched up any rust on the frame. It definitely turned into a "while I was in there" type of project and I just did everything at the same time.

The difference from where I started to where it is now was transformative. It doesn't even feel like the same car.

If you're interested in more photos of the rebuild I've got a couple dozen photo albums here http://dmctalk.org/album.php?u=269.

Here's one of my favorites...
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=30009&d=1407857642

[rjd2]

Oh geez. You went whole hog. Yikes. I don't think I've got that in me, lol. But the Eibach suspension kit, new bushings, paint control arms, and then back together I think is doable. I've already got the brakes blown apart, and that was only a few hours. While my front springs are definitely lower, the shocks look old, I am guessing original. I believe the seller told me he did a cut job on the springs, but it's been so long... my steering rack feels good, at the moment, but that is a tough thing to get to when it's all together....thanks for the feedback, I think you're inspiring me to go for it!

[Helirich]

Quick note: I received the new rotors from Deloreango.com-I bought the calipers with the rotors, as I had a hunch that the OEM calipers probably woulndt be wide enough to fit the new vented rotors. Sure enough, they don't-the factory calipers are too narrow for the vented rotor to even fit into. Wanted to let you folks know; I'll report back once installed with results.

I read this and went to their site. The picture shows spacers that you bolt between your caliper halves to make it wide enough to go on. I'm thinking that in the kit you got, the spacers were allready on the new caliper. Your old one would be wide enough if you put the spacers on it. Can you confirm you didn't try bolting spacers on your old caliper. (I might be ordering this soon.

I was just looking at my brakes and I think it would fit assuming it's less than 3/4" wider. Wider than that, you might need to grind the back side of the caliper a bit.

[dmcman73]

I read this and went to their site. The picture shows spacers that you bolt between your caliper halves to make it wide enough to go on. I'm thinking that in the kit you got, the spacers were allready on the new caliper. Your old one would be wide enough if you put the spacers on it. Can you confirm you didn't try bolting spacers on your old caliper. (I might be ordering this soon.

I was just looking at my brakes and I think it would fit assuming it's less than 3/4" wider. Wider than that, you might need to grind the back side of the caliper a bit.

They sell a rotor kit that comes with the spacers for your original calipers or you can buy the kit with newly manufactured calipers that are already wider (no spacers).