Changing caster angle

[mike3112]

If one wanted to increase caster on the front suspension in order to increase the self-centering of the steering, could it not be done by remounting the upper ball joint slightly more to the rear on the upper control arm? Hypothetically speaking.

[David T]

While it may increase the centering, it will take more effort to steer the car, a car that does not have power steering. All of the specs for the suspension are a compromise. It may be easier to put offset bushings in the upper control arm where it connects to the frame. First I would check to make sure the alignment is correct for the stock specs before I would mess around. At least then you would have a baseline of how the car is supposed to be before you modify it.

[mike3112]

While it may increase the centering, it will take more effort to steer the car, a car that does not have power steering. All of the specs for the suspension are a compromise. It may be easier to put offset bushings in the upper control arm where it connects to the frame. First I would check to make sure the alignment is correct for the stock specs before I would mess around. At least then you would have a baseline of how the car is supposed to be before you modify it.

That was quick! yes the car does have power steering,so effort is not an issue. It's the electric Deu setup from before DMC was selling them. It would be nice to be able to adjust the assist but there doesn't appear to be a way to do so. A car with p/s could stand for some more centering force since the p/s does make the steering a little light at center. I'm inclined to leave it alone, but just looking for ideas if I wanted to go that route.

I'm not sure what you mean by an offset bushing. The UCA needs to move rearward so I would have thought washers between the rear bushing and the frame would move it back, but something would have to give at the forward busing. (grinding? ) My first WAG would be it only needs to move back about 1/8 inch.

[mark w]

I would recommend making a custom upper control arm to achieve this. not possible with the factory A arm.

[mike3112]

I would recommend making a custom upper control arm to achieve this. not possible with the factory A arm.

Making a custom UCA could mean anything. What do you suggest it's function would be, to move the ball joint mounting around, or threaded arms instead of a rigid UCA that would move the outer apex of the arm around?
I appreciate the suggestions.

[Josh]

I made a custom UCA. It allows for camber and caster adjustment. I am running 5.5deg of caster now. Its a little nicer on the highway but no major change.
I did it mostly because my cross caster was 2.5 deg, I wanted to fix that.

I have about 14,000kms on these UCAs from this summer, I feel they are sufficiently tested.

https://i.imgur.com/VcpGarAl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SgQi3bOl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/U8ffajHl.jpg

[Azar]

Any way to correct the camber on the stock DeLorean? Mine has difference between left and right. And do I understand it correctly, lowering the car will move the camber toward positiv? I would like to go more negative at the front. Thanks!

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[Henrik]

Any way to correct the camber on the stock DeLorean? Mine has difference between left and right. And do I understand it correctly, lowering the car will move the camber toward positiv? I would like to go more negative at the front. Thanks!

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Camber is not adjustable on the stock Delorean suspension. However, some owners have come up with different mods that make the camber angle adjustable (such as the one two posts up). Lowering the car will make the camber angle more negative.

[Josh]

Any way to correct the camber on the stock DeLorean? Mine has difference between left and right. And do I understand it correctly, lowering the car will move the camber toward positiv? I would like to go more negative at the front. Thanks!

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literally the post above yours.

[Azar]

Thank you for your answers but I really mean stock DeLorean, without custom UCA. It is very strict in Germany with the historical car registration.
Also, we did the the measurements with driver and without and noticed that the front left camber would switch from slightly negative to slightly positive. If it would have been other way around I would think about dropping the car slightly hoping the TÜV will not notice it.

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[Josh]

Thank you for your answers but I really mean stock DeLorean, without custom UCA. It is very strict in Germany with the historical car registration.
Also, we did the the measurements with driver and without and noticed that the front left camber would switch from slightly negative to slightly positive. If it would have been other way around I would think about dropping the car slightly hoping the TÜV will not notice it.

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To change the camber you will need to modify the control arms. Otherwise you can ONLY adjust toe, as the car was made from the factory.

This is the closest to stock with adjustable camber you can get this, a modified UCA.
https://lamborfuckinghini.com/collections/delorean/products/delorean-front-camber

[Drive Stainless]

Thank you for your answers but I really mean stock DeLorean, without custom UCA. It is very strict in Germany with the historical car registration.
Also, we did the the measurements with driver and without and noticed that the front left camber would switch from slightly negative to slightly positive. If it would have been other way around I would think about dropping the car slightly hoping the TÜV will not notice it.

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You can always use the OEM upper control arms from a Lotus Esprit. You will need a 7-degree-taper reamer to enlarge the bore in the steering knuckle, which takes very little time. New OEM Lotus upper ball joints are $15 and shared with several other cars.

After enlarging the bore, the control arm bolts up the same way as the DeLorean upper control arm and allows camber and caster adjustment via steel shims.

You can find new Lotus Esprit upper control arms for about $183 each.

[Azar]

Sounds interesting, many thanks to both of you!

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[Josh]

You can always use the OEM upper control arms from a Lotus Esprit. You will need a 7-degree-taper reamer to enlarge the bore in the steering knuckle, which takes very little time. New OEM Lotus upper ball joints are $15 and shared with several other cars.

After enlarging the bore, the control arm bolts up the same way as the DeLorean upper control arm and allows camber and caster adjustment via steel shims.

You can find new Lotus Esprit upper control arms for about $183 each.

Has anyone done this? If its as good as you make it sound, seems like it should be more common.

I was never a fan of reaming out spindles. If you convert it to a more common taper there are much much more options available.

[mark w]

On my car the front suspension is modified to narrow the track, by 2" on each side. the shock is mounted higher, it comes up thru the body now, and is a coilover with 2.5" ID springs. the Upper A arm is custom made, with Rod ends that thread into the ends of the upper arm. threading them both into the arm, increases camber. threading only one in or out allows for caster adjustments.

[Drive Stainless]

Has anyone done this? If its as good as you make it sound, seems like it should be more common.

I was never a fan of reaming out spindles. If you convert it to a more common taper there are much much more options available.

Yes, it's been done more than once. I'm as surprised as you are that it's not more common, but it could hardly be easier. It also allows you to use the Lotus knuckle if you want, which lets you use the 5-lug hub if you want new wheels. I already posted pics on Facebook. Didn't you see them? :spank:

What's wrong with reaming the steering knuckle? You're only enlarging the bore by about 1 mm. The DeLorean steering knuckle is already of a common taper: 7 degrees. There are only two common tapers, 7 degrees and 10 degrees. The difference is the ball stud is of a larger diameter on the Lotus.

Lastly, IMHO, everyone should own a 7 degree reamer because the engagement between the OEM DeLorean ball joints and OEM DeLorean steering knuckle is hardly ideal and can be improved substantially in a few minutes.

[Josh]

Ive measured out the balljoints before, they are not a 7deg taper. They are somewhere closer to 6deg.

[Bitsyncmaster]

https://www.carbideanddiamondtooling.com/Reamer.standard.ball.joint.taper.motorcycle.reamer s

[Drive Stainless]

Ive measured out the balljoints before, they are not a 7deg taper. They are somewhere closer to 6deg.

Please, if you think it's incorrect, do not rely on my claims. I make no guarantees or warranties. I am not selling a kit or parts based on my claims that this combination works. Proceed at your own risk. Have your suspension evaluated by a certified professional mechanic.

With all of that said, and strictly for academic purposes, see below. We can argue about whether the measurement is correct. What we should be able to agree on is a steering knuckle reamed to the wrong taper will not contact the ball joint completely, leaving the taper lock incomplete.

We can test the contact by marking the taper of this new DMCH ball joint with a Sharpie and lightly turning it in the steering knuckle that I've already reamed with a 7.15 degree taper. Pictures tell the story.

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[Josh]

Thanks for finally posting the pictures, after only alluding to them.

Perhaps you can sleep well tonight knowing you got your quips in today.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The sharpie test is good. I would think another test is to just sit the taper into the reamed location and measure deflection on each end. A little hard to do with ball joints though. I wonder if there is a tool that can measure to a tenth of a degree.

[Drive Stainless]

The sharpie test is good. I would think another test is to just sit the taper into the reamed location and measure deflection on each end. A little hard to do with ball joints though. I wonder if there is a tool that can measure to a tenth of a degree.

It is difficult to measure the taper for sure. With the length of the tapered portion of the stud, measuring the stud diameter incorrectly by as little as 0.17mm throws off the whole taper measurement by a whole (1) degree.