2 consecutive number VIN Deloreans for sale

[cdrusn]

Great buy for a collector with the money.

https://www.hemmings.com/auction/1981-delorean-dmc-12-1?utm_medium=email&utm_source=auctions_newsletter&utm_campaign=2021-02-16

[Timeless]

2 projects for someone. Paging DPI.

[Michael]

While I am not doubting the seller claims at all, consecutive numbers on a DeLorean is not all that. I never quite understood the fascination with vin numbers as the car really carries no correlation between the vin plates and the rest of the vehicle. Even frame numbers are just a hand welded number plate and those are sometimes off sequence.

Rare find these days, yup, and the fact that both are super low mileage and consecutive is very cool but if they were not consecutive vins, I think the overall value would not be affected that much to a person who grasps DeLorean vins. To the car collector who has tons of money, who knows? Six figures would not be out of the question.

[Mark D]

The car with 14 miles has been stripped of quite a few parts and no longer has the original engine. This couldn't be a more perfect situation for DPI and one of their high end engine upgrades. Probably not so great for anyone else.

http://dmctalk.org/album.php?albumid=99&attachmentid=65620


The other car with 1600 miles has some janky frame repairs...

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65621&d=1613666676

[dn010]

Those aren't "janky frame repairs." That is how the early frames were made and how they differ from later frames.

I am sure once they realized how much extra time & material they were spending riviting pieces like this instead of welding a single plate on, is when they changed the way they constructed these.

I had the frame original to my car and swapped it with the frame from vin 712, this is how I was able to compare all these little (and little known) differences between early/late frames.



The car with 14 miles has been stripped of quite a few parts and no longer has the original engine. This couldn't be a more perfect situation for DPI and one of their high end engine upgrades. Probably not so great for anyone else.

http://dmctalk.org/album.php?albumid=99&attachmentid=65620


The other car with 1600 miles has some janky frame repairs...

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65621&d=1613666676

[Michael]

Those pics alone is proof that "low mileage" just means a ton of work and money to make anywhere near roadworthy or reliable. I'll take my maintained "high mileage" D anytime over either one of those.

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[Mark D]

Those aren't "janky frame repairs." That is how the early frames were made and how they differ from later frames.

I am sure once they realized how much extra time & material they were spending riviting pieces like this instead of welding a single plate on, is when they changed the way they constructed these.

I had the frame original to my car and swapped it with the frame from vin 712, this is how I was able to compare all these little (and little known) differences between early/late frames.

I stand corrected, I had no idea the early frames were constructed like that. Is there a particular VIN cutoff when they changed to the later style frames, or was it a running change?

I'm also curious to know if the lower plates were dipped in epoxy separately and then installed, or if the parts were riveted together first and dipped with the rest of the frame. It looks like the center of each fastener is raw metal and starting to rust, or the epoxy has chipped off on the end of each one.

[David T]

Not sure how many collectors would pay a premium to buy 2 cars even if they do have consecutive vin #'s. Besides, serious collectors would want the car to be as original and complete as possible especially if they are low mileage. That is if you believe they are really low mileage and really consecutive vins, I have my suspicions. They are unusual in that they have never been titled and registered. Not having the original motor doesn't mean anything as long as it is a Delorean PRV and is in running condition. Strange that with such low mileage it doesn't have it's original motor. Hard to accept this at face value, it seems a little too unusual. Anyone interested in buying these cars would have to do a lot of "homework" and a proper inspection. On it's face you seem to be buying 2 low mileage (if that is to be believed) project cars. It will be interesting to watch and see what they sell for. For a true collector to buy them, they will never be driven because when a collector buys a very low mileage car, they are paying a lot for the fact that they are low mileage. For some collectors low mileage means a lot.

[CFI]

I never quite understood the fascination with vin numbers....

To me it’s interesting to see which VINs are still around. I suspect that’s what most “VIN counters” etc are really curious about. But you are correct: the VIN (especially on these cars which left the factory in whatever order they were finished) means very little. Heck, I spent many years working for a major auto manufacturer and their VINS didn’t always coincide with how they rolled out of the factory either.

[Timeless]

Those pics alone is proof that "low mileage" just means a ton of work and money to make anywhere near roadworthy or reliable. I'll take my maintained "high mileage" D anytime over either one of those.

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Exactly. They gotta be driven regularly! I'm blessed to live in a climate that allows daily driving a D.

[Helirich]

While I am not doubting the seller claims at all, consecutive numbers on a DeLorean is not all that....

X2,

I don't see any extra value in consecutive numbers at all. (Maybe if it was number 1 and 2, lol)

[David T]

Consecutive vins don't mean all that much but the ultimate for a collector would be the first and last ones. Some owners do collect 2 Deloreans but of the ones I know of they got an automatic and a 5-speed, his and hers. Or a driver and project cars to work on and eventually sell. Vin #'s of little importance except to differentiate early cars from later cars.

[Timeless]

X2,

I don't see any extra value in consecutive numbers at all. (Maybe if it was number 1 and 2, lol)
Even then I think it would only be slightly cool to have 500 and 502.

[dn010]

Vin 663 uses what looks to me like the wrong rivets to hold the vin plate down so I'd be suspicious of that one. Vin 664 looks correct and has the correct early frame.


I stand corrected, I had no idea the early frames were constructed like that. Is there a particular VIN cutoff when they changed to the later style frames, or was it a running change?

I'm also curious to know if the lower plates were dipped in epoxy separately and then installed, or if the parts were riveted together first and dipped with the rest of the frame. It looks like the center of each fastener is raw metal and starting to rust, or the epoxy has chipped off on the end of each one.


I'd have to go home and look at it later but I think my frame differs even from the 664 frame, so they were clearly working out whatever issues they had early and at some point shortly after they settled on producing them how they ended up on later cars. I do not know when these changes took place or if there is even any documentation on it. There was also differences in front end frame wiring from low vins to later ones that changed at some point early.

The rivets were not epoxy coated on mine so I'd imagine everything was dipped and then the plates added to the frame later. Speculation of course but maybe this helped aid the install of the rear suspension with whatever method they were using at the time, without those plates you can just swing the lower arm into position, tighten it down, then rivet the plate down. Again it's speculation, we'd need a factory worker to set us straight.

[Henrik]

The car with 14 miles... no longer has the original engine.

Must have been a rough 14 miles...

[Mark D]

Must have been a rough 14 miles...

From what I can understand from the listing on Hemmings, the original owner was a dealer and got both cars wholesale though a consolidated auction. The car with 14 miles was used as a parts car. I don't know a lot about the availability of parts immediately after the factory shut down, but it sounds like the parts car was kept on hand at the dealership to scavenge if a customer came in and needed replacement parts.

Later on didn't Consolidated have a mail order / phone order system set up that people could call and order parts? This car must have been stripped sometime between the factory closing and before individual parts became more readily available again.

Also, since both of these cars have low VIN's they must have been basket case cars that had some defect that made them unsaleable back in 81. From what I've read there were a handful of those cars left on site in 83 that had unresolved quality issues. Those cars didn't get sold until the factory closed and everything was auctioned off.

[David T]

According to speakers we had that worked at the QAC's, when it was all over they got parts and put all of the cannibalized cars together with whatever they had but they were all complete and running. It's possible the dealer got the car and cannibalized it for parts to service his other customers. That could account for the 14 miles, they were from driving it onto the ship, off the ship, loading and unloading, and delivery to the dealer. If it is really 14 miles.

[funkstuf]

My experience over the years are that what the odometer says rarely has anything to do with the actual miles on a Delorean. Furthermore it really has nothing to do with what the car should be worth because Condition is everything. I've noticed in the last few years there have suddenly become a high number of very "low mileage" cars showing up on the market that seem to show a lot more wear than the the odometer indicates. Funny enough, when I bought mine 20 years ago someone told me not to believe the odometers on Deloreans and there are more low mileage cars now than there were then.

[Timeless]

My experience over the years are that what the odometer says rarely has anything to do with the actual miles on a Delorean. Furthermore it really has nothing to do with what the car should be worth because Condition is everything. I've noticed in the last few years there have suddenly become a high number of very "low mileage" cars showing up on the market that seem to show a lot more wear than the the odometer indicates. Funny enough, when I bought mine 20 years ago someone told me not to believe the odometers on Deloreans and there are more low mileage cars now than there were then.
Thank the crappy OE angle drive...

[artisticent]

Looks like one of those is the very rare one of kind DWC. Priceless lol. Seriously though on another note one of them seems to have the eyebrow situation going on. At such low miles this would disprove the heat from the headlamps causing the issue wouldn't it?

[David T]

That eyebrow effect (shrinkage) is caused by aging and sunlight, not heat from the headlights. The rear facia also shrinks and it doesn't have headlights. You get a puckering on the corners.

[artisticent]

That eyebrow effect (shrinkage) is caused by aging and sunlight, not heat from the headlights. The rear facia also shrinks and it doesn't have headlights. You get a puckering on the corners.

ahh well that clears that for me. Yeah interesting what happens to theses facias of the years. Explains why everyone's car is slightly different. My rear facia has actually distorted in such a way to where the ledge of the black meeting the gray has lifted inwards causing water to catch in the valley so to speak. Very odd. Its almost as if I need to attach a rod at the bottom pulling under the car and apply heat. But its not obvious enough to tackle yet.

[DeloreanJapan]

Those pics alone is proof that "low mileage" just means a ton of work and money to make anywhere near roadworthy or reliable. I'll take my maintained "high mileage" D anytime over either one of those.

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Hi Michael , Saw those pristine photos, I want to ask, how well is the Black sleeve that protect the wire from the Stage 1 Manifold ? From my eyes there seem really close ,

[Michael]

Hi Michael , Saw those pristine photos, I want to ask, how well is the Black sleeve that protect the wire from the Stage 1 Manifold ? From my eyes there seem really close ,

I imagine you mean the intake tube to the air cleaner? It gets warm just like everything in the engine bay but never hot enough to melt. I considered wrapping the headers but was told that would be a bad idea(no explanation why though). Once I left it loose before driving and the sleeve melted in one place where it rested on the header. I since went to advance Auto and replaced the whole set up with a Spectre tube, hose connector and added a flange on the pontoon for that polished and professional look I was going for.

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Edit...oh now I see you mean the wiring harness at the alternator. Yeah those wires were very close to the headers so I used a titanium heat sleeve(also from Advance) for all the wires at the starter and alternator. This actually keeps the wires cooler. I had plenty left over so I did the visible part of the wiring harness in heat sleeve for aesthetics.

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All this was done last winter. Advance Auto Parts is now a unofficial sponsor of my engine bay. https://www.designengineering.com/titanium-protect-a-sleeve/

[MrChocky]

Looks like one of those is the very rare one of kind DWC. Priceless lol. Seriously though on another note one of them seems to have the eyebrow situation going on. At such low miles this would disprove the heat from the headlamps causing the issue wouldn't it?

Perhaps. I have seen other alleged low mile cars with eyebrowing also. If I hadn't been "exposed" to the heat idea early on, I'd be suggesting different factors like stress from the headlight bucket screws/springs.

[artisticent]

Perhaps. I have seen other alleged low mile cars with eyebrowing also. If I hadn't been "exposed" to the heat idea early on, I'd be suggesting different factors like stress from the headlight bucket screws/springs.

I like David Ts response to this. Judging by the other crazy distorting our facias do over time, it makes sense that its not to do with the heat or anything other than just time and the plastics used doing funny things. In theory an uninstalled facia from new should look the same if stored as a facia on a car assuming they are both in the same location (same environment, conditiond etc)

[David T]

I like David Ts response to this. Judging by the other crazy distorting our facias do over time, it makes sense that its not to do with the heat or anything other than just time and the plastics used doing funny things. In theory an uninstalled facia from new should look the same if stored as a facia on a car assuming they are both in the same location (same environment, conditiond etc)

I have seen NOS facias and they do shrink but not the same way as on a car. When they are on a car they are held at fixed points by their attachments so they shrink differently than when they are in a box or on a shelf. If you have ever tried to put one on you will know what I mean. Nothing lines up well and you have to force them on. A good reason to avoid taking them off unless you really have to.

[artisticent]

I have seen NOS facias and they do shrink but not the same way as on a car. When they are on a car they are held at fixed points by their attachments so they shrink differently than when they are in a box or on a shelf. If you have ever tried to put one on you will know what I mean. Nothing lines up well and you have to force them on. A good reason to avoid taking them off unless you really have to.

It was HIGHLY suggested I not remove mine when it came time to paint so I masked and painted on the car. Good for many reasons I discovered. Including all the mounting points and hardware that can break. Definitely a good call

[MrChocky]

It was HIGHLY suggested I not remove mine when it came time to paint so I masked and painted on the car. Good for many reasons I discovered. Including all the mounting points and hardware that can break. Definitely a good call

Phew, right. Well, I'm about to attempt to remove mine anyway (again); since this time I have the headlight buckets *and* brackets out (without removing the hood - it's possible), but I think
the whole mess is gonna be a whole lot easier to put back if it's removed, and I still suspect mouse leavings behind it. It's been removed at least once before (or possibly replaced)
and I certainly don't have eyebrows, so I shouldn't be too worried.

[David T]

As long as you are committed to removing it, just look forward to having to repair a few broken studs and you will probably have to reglue some back into the facia. As long as it is off you can stick a piece of aluminum angle in it to stiffen it up to prevent any eyebrow effect. As you remove it try to keep track of any shims or washers but you may have to add or remove some to get a good fit. Also be prepared for a fight to get it back on. Take your time. Heat will help. If you can, soften it up in the sun or use heat lamps. You can do a pretty good job cleaning things up just by taking off the front grill and the headlights. Check the hood hinges. If they are rusty either rebuild or replace them.

[Helirich]

All this talk about eyebrows makes me relate something funny. I just did the eyebrow fix a couple days ago. (Heat and aluminum inserts) Anyways, when I was in the disassembling phase, I noticed wood inserts were allready there. They were about 3/4" by 3/16" and maybe 12" long. When I removed them, I noticed they had a perfect curve that matched my eyebrows. Lol.

Also found a animal nest behind the grill. Not sure if it was bird or rodent. I guess that confirms mine as a "barnfind".

[DMC-81]

Looks like one of those is the very rare one of kind DWC. Priceless lol. Seriously though on another note one of them seems to have the eyebrow situation going on. At such low miles this would disprove the heat from the headlamps causing the issue wouldn't it?

I don't see the typical eyebrow problem. The fascia is sagging in the middle. Because this is the parts car, most likely the Front Facia Reinforcement panel (Part # 105678 ) was scavenged off the car. This panel supports the middle of the fascia.

Here is the exploded view of mine when I had the fascias refurbished. That panel is on the right.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=38180&d=1448256385