Drivers front and rear indicator lights not working, but hazards do.

[dmcerik]

Hello.

While going through my lighting this winter I noticed my drivers side front indicator light doesn't light up when the headlights are on. Neither does the rear drivers orange light. When I try the hazards out they do flash without issues. So I decided to upgrade my lights to LED with a kit from a Delorean vendor that included the new LED compatible relay. I cleaned all the connectors and put all the lights in, and still those two lights don't turn on when the headlights are on. Just flashers. The front drivers indicator harness was really corroded so I figured that might be my issue. I replaced the connectors and STILL those two lights don't turn on when the headlight is on.

Any ideas?

[Michael]

I think the left and right sides are on separate fuses so I would check the bulb and fuse first. Ialso think the fronts are dual element, just because one element works doesn't mean it's OK. I haven't looked in awhile, but the turn signal relay and hazard relays may(not sure) be separate as well so don't forget to check that. The rear turn signal light is not supposed to light for anything other than turn signal and hazards, (you are talking about turn signal lights and not side marker lights right?).

[dmcerik]

Here's two photos with the headlight switch clicked in just once.

Front (https://photos.app.goo.gl/sZiNRaND8GLgmJao8)
Back (https://photos.app.goo.gl/V3muY4JHoACnQD3x9)

Notice how in the rear picture the passenger side has two lights on.

[Michael]

Yeah that rear orange signal light should never come on with the headlight or parking lights, just signal and hazard. Someone might have modded it or there is a problem with the tail light board, etc. You may have to do some diagnosing with a wiring diagram to figure that one out. If the orange signals worked before and you want to keep it that way, check fuse #2( I checked they are fused right and left sides separate), then bulbs and make sure they are the correct bulb. Someone may have used dual element bulbs in the rear for the suspected mod.

[dmcerik]

I just replaced all the exterior bulbs with LED from a Delorean vendors kit. But the light behavior was happening before the upgrade. The tail light boards are from PJ Grady. After all these years they are still very clean. I even swapped boards around and the behavior did not follow the board. I'll check fuses out.

[dmcerik]

All the fuses and terminals look good.

The drivers indicator works fine when the flashers are on. Knowing that, would there be another place I should start investigating?

[Michael]

All the fuses and terminals look good.

The drivers indicator works fine when the flashers are on. Knowing that, would there be another place I should start investigating?

Check voltage at the socket and work back. You will need the wiring diagram and don't be surprised to see that yours may not match OE.

[DMCMW Dave]

Might be a bad hazard switch. It "takes over" the turn signal circuit and can fail such that the hazards will work but not the turn signals.

But go for the easy stuff first, turn signals are on a separate fuse.

The left and right tail, parking, and running marker lights are on separate fuses. The turn signals left and right are on the same fuse as each other.

[artisticent]

I had a similar whacky problem. The first was solved when I inspected the plug that attached to the rear tail board. The ground (black) metal conductor inside the plug was bent back and not making contact with the board contact. So i fixed that. Then the blinking issue in my front 2 markers was resolved by installing the correct dual filament bulbs.

[DMC-Ron]

Hello.

While going through my lighting this winter I noticed my drivers side front indicator light doesn't light up when the headlights are on. Neither does the rear drivers orange light. When I try the hazards out they do flash without issues. So I decided to upgrade my lights to LED with a kit from a Delorean vendor that included the new LED compatible relay. I cleaned all the connectors and put all the lights in, and still those two lights don't turn on when the headlights are on. Just flashers. The front drivers indicator harness was really corroded so I figured that might be my issue. I replaced the connectors and STILL those two lights don't turn on when the headlight is on.

Any ideas?

Erik,
The rear orange (amber) tail light segment should not come on with the running or headlights. It should only flash with the turn signal or emergency flasher. The photo you have showing the right amber segment lit with the running/headlights on is incorrect. As is see it you have two issues:

1. Your left front signal light is not getting the running light circuit. The front signal lights are dual element 1157 type and get two independent circuits, one element is powered from the run lights and a second element powered from the turn signal (emergency) circuit. Make sure your LED bulb is a dual element 1157 type. Check the socket of your left front indicator light. 1157 bulbs will only fit properly if inserted correctly. The bayonets on the bulb are offset and the lower one must go in the longer socket slot. The socket is often corroded or the bulb is not quite seated properly to make contact with both filaments. Try rotating the bulb in the socket or change the bulb. You just need to get the running element working.

2. Something is amiss with the right taillight. The amber turn single should not be on with the running/headlights. Since the issue stays the same after swapping the taillight boards, you need to check the right side taillight connector. Insure that the contacts in the connector are making good contact. Often they get bent back. The electrical contacts are only on one side of the OEM taillight boards. That's the side the connector must make contact with. I'm not sure if the PJ Grady boards have contacts on both sides. There is only one ground connection on the taillight connector and a good ground connection is critical for everything to work. If the connector checks out, then begin troubleshooting to see why you have power on the turn signal with the headlights on.

Ron

65888

[dmcerik]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll check on those things. I know for the fronts I swapped the new bulbs around and both bulbs worked on the passenger side without issues. I even replaced the indicator harness with a known good harness and still no running light from the drivers side.

For the rear passenger taillight. I just turned on the turn signal and both flash but they do so quickly. Leading me to believe I have some connectors in the back to clean up better. I'll let you know what I come up with.

Thanks again.

[DMC-Ron]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll check on those things. I know for the fronts I swapped the new bulbs around and both bulbs worked on the passenger side without issues. I even replaced the indicator harness with a known good harness and still no running light from the drivers side.

For the rear passenger taillight. I just turned on the turn signal and both flash but they do so quickly. Leading me to believe I have some connectors in the back to clean up better. I'll let you know what I come up with.

Thanks again.

A quick flash (hyperflash) turn signal can happen when LED bulbs are replaced but the flasher relay is still original. The original flasher relay is not compatible with most LED bulbs. Replace the flasher relay with an LED compatible one.

Ron

[dmcerik]

The flasher relay is LED compatible and came with the kit supplied by the Delorean vendor.

[Michael]

The flasher relay is LED compatible and came with the kit supplied by the Delorean vendor.

I think you need to revert back to the old relay and bulbs just to get the problem sorted out. You may be working against yourself with the LED kit added on.

Once the main issue is resolved, then put the LED kit back in place.

[Ron]

+1!

[dmcerik]

I think you need to revert back to the old relay and bulbs just to get the problem sorted out. You may be working against yourself with the LED kit added on.

Once the main issue is resolved, then put the LED kit back in place.

Noooooooooooooooo...ok I'll give it a try. Honestly I'll need to see if I still have the old bulbs. I hope they didn't get thrown out.

To add to the weirdness it turns out the drivers side indicator flickers when the lights are on. I created a video (https://photos.app.goo.gl/nHrPj257Qx6UQJqq8) to explain it better. You'll notice the turn signal operation works. So does the hazard. But you'll also notice it will flicker a bit when it should be fully lit up.

[Ron]

After watching the vid and reading the thread again, I think DMC-Ron has it right.

[I'm assuming in 1., where he says "signal light" in the first sentence, he means "socket" (the front signal lights are ok). And in the second sentence, "bulb".
The left front parking/position light and left front side marker/running light being tied together (G/B wire), while only one works, points to a poor connection as mentioned (more then a wrong bulb to me).

And in 2., I'm assuming where he says "right taillight", he means "right rear directional indicator" (the taillights are ok). The right rear directional indicator and right front directional indicator being tied together, while only the rear comes on, points to a wiring problem -- Somehow the right rear directional indicator's G/W wire is not connected to the other G/W wires in the harness AND it is getting power when it shouldn't.]

It doesn't make sense that nothing was done but swapping bulbs and sitting a while...

[dmcerik]

I had a quick 10min break between meetings so I ran into the garage to test the front drivers turn signal socket. You know, the old "wiggle the bulb and see what happens" trick. With enough wiggling at just the right angle I was able to get the bulb to turn on properly. It doesn't behave properly if I'm not wiggling it (don't laugh).

I tried using contact cleaner and some mini files to try and clean things up, but can't seem to make it any better. Unless someone has a sure way of cleaning these sockets, looks like I'll just buy a new harness.

[dmcerik]

Somehow the right rear directional indicator's G/W wire is not connected to the other G/W wires in the harness AND it is getting power when it shouldn't.]

I have a feeling this is going to take a lot of time to figure this one out. Wish me luck.

[Ron]

I have a feeling this is going to take a lot of time to figure this one out. Wish me luck.
lol -- Good luck!

Sounds like you have the LF parking light figured out.
For the RR directional indicator/turn signal, you might try removing fuse #4 (indicators & stop). My guess is it will stay on. If so, leave #4 out and pull #8, then #2....you might get another good clue. If not, keep pulling fuses until it goes out.
Look for any mods from the bulkhead connectors (Black 9 pin) down to the boards. Pay particular attention to the G/W wire.

[dmcerik]

Today I remembered that the right turn signal indicator bulb in the binnacle doesn't light up when I put my turn signal on. And I also noticed the left indicator light in the binnacle stays on while the headlights are on. I've been meaning to replace all the binnacle bulbs to LED anyways so I decided to go in and remove the binnacle, replace the lights (minus fuel and battery), and see what new issues I see.

1. The green lights aren't illuminating. So left turn signal, right turn signal, headlights. Those don't illuminate at all in the binnacle now.
2. My front drivers indicator now works properly (weird)
3. My passenger rear turn signal still stays illuminated when it shouldn't...but now the drivers indicator has joined in on the fun.

Is is possible the binnacle lights are causing my issues? I removed the binnacle again and made sure things are clean for those green lights. All looks clean, but I do notice the printed circuit has dents and scrapes. And I'm wondering if maybe I need a new one. https://store.delorean.com/105851-instrument-cluster-printed-circuit.html

Any new thoughts?

[DMC-Ron]

I had a quick 10min break between meetings so I ran into the garage to test the front drivers turn signal socket. You know, the old "wiggle the bulb and see what happens" trick. With enough wiggling at just the right angle I was able to get the bulb to turn on properly. It doesn't behave properly if I'm not wiggling it (don't laugh).

I tried using contact cleaner and some mini files to try and clean things up, but can't seem to make it any better. Unless someone has a sure way of cleaning these sockets, looks like I'll just buy a new harness.

Erik,
cut off some scotchbright pad. Get the purple version if you can find it. You need to cut it to about 1/2" by 2" size. Use contact cleaner or brake cleaner. Soak the pad, insert in the socket, and rotate (please don't use steel wool). That should clean out the socket. I'm assuming you have a new 1157 LED bulb. Many times the solder contact points at the base of the new LED bulbs are too pointed. Often they need to be "flattened" slightly with a flat file. Put the file down on a flat work bench and flatten the contacts by holding the bulb upright and moving its base back and forth on the file. It doesn't take much and it's better to use a finer file rather than a course one. Once the contacts are flattened, clean off any filings. Now pay attention to the offset bayonets on the bulb base. The lower one goes in the longer socket slot. Don't force. With the connections filed, the bulb should turn and seat easily. Sometimes the socket is just too far gone, but this procedure will often revitalize a pretty crusty one.

Ron

[Ron]

Today I remembered that the right turn signal indicator bulb in the binnacle doesn't light up when I put my turn signal on. And I also noticed the left indicator light in the binnacle stays on while the headlights are on. I've been meaning to replace all the binnacle bulbs to LED anyways so I decided to go in and remove the binnacle, replace the lights (minus fuel and battery), and see what new issues I see.

1. The green lights aren't illuminating. So left turn signal, right turn signal, headlights. Those don't illuminate at all in the binnacle now.
2. My front drivers indicator now works properly (weird)
3. My passenger rear turn signal still stays illuminated when it shouldn't...but now the drivers indicator has joined in on the fun.

Is is possible the binnacle lights are causing my issues? I removed the binnacle again and made sure things are clean for those green lights. All looks clean, but I do notice the printed circuit has dents and scrapes. And I'm wondering if maybe I need a new one. https://store.delorean.com/105851-instrument-cluster-printed-circuit.html

Any new thoughts?
A bad printed circuit itself might cause bulbs in the binnacle to not come on. But, if the printed circuit's traces aren't loose and shorting, it can't cause any bulbs (anywhere) to come on when they shouldn't. Installing the printed circuit's plug on crooked might.

RE:"2. My front drivers indicator now works properly (weird)"
Seems like it was working all along from the pics and vid???
Did you mean position light (parking light)?
Maybe I'm confused because everyone is using different or mixed naming conventions. I suggest we use those used on the schematic (Left, Right, Front, Rear; Blinker, Position, Tail, Hazard, Marker).
...just MHO.

I strongly suggest replacing ALL LEDs with incandescent bulbs as Michael suggested (including those you added in the binnacle).

[MrChocky]

A bad printed circuit itself might cause bulbs in the binnacle to not come on. But, if the printed circuit's traces aren't loose and shorting, it can't cause any bulbs (anywhere) to come on when they shouldn't. Installing the printed circuit's plug on crooked might.

RE:"2. My front drivers indicator now works properly (weird)"
Seems like it was working all along from the pics and vid???
Did you mean position light (parking light)?
Maybe I'm confused because everyone is using different or mixed naming conventions. I suggest we use those used on the schematic (Left, Right, Front, Rear; Blinker, Position, Tail, Hazard, Marker).
...just MHO.

As usual, when you disturb "old" stuff, you end up causing other problems, and this is what happened in my case. I ended up having to replace the circuit board, because of
the poor condition of the connectors.



I strongly suggest replacing ALL LEDs with incandescent bulbs as Michael suggested (including those you added in the binnacle).

All apart from the battery light! This needs to stay incandescent or the battery may not charge. Ask me how I know.

[Ron]

As usual, when you disturb "old" stuff, you end up causing other problems, and this is what happened in my case. I ended up having to replace the circuit board, because of the poor condition of the connectors.Yep. On the first one I worked on the connectors separated from the film. Fortunately, I got away with super gluing them back down before they broke off...bend them two or three times and you are SOL.


All apart from the battery light! This needs to stay incandescent or the battery may not charge. Ask me how I know.I think you took me wrong...I was saying change them all back to incandescent (for troubleshooting the existing problem(s)).
That reminds me, I meant to mention not being concerned about a LED for the fuel light but forgot...getin' too old for this $hit. :smile:

[dmcerik]

*RESOLVED*

Where to even begin. How about a big lesson learned. Before doing a full LED replacement project, document the function of all the lights you plan to replace. Document their current state so you know what is and isn't working properly before you replace everything.

In my case I had a few different issues going into the project.
1. Some of my instrument cluster lights didn't work. Like my right turn signal light.
2. My front drivers position was not functional before the project due to corrosion in the socket and connector.

What I found out was that my car hates LED 1157 bulbs.

Issues
1. Rear passenger turn signal bulb would stay lit when the headlights were on. This was because the front passenger LED was making it stay on. And, when I replace the instrument cluster lights to be LED, the right turn signal light in the instrument cluster stayed on when the headlamps were on. Replacing the LED 1157 with a normal 1157 fixed all of that.
2. Front drivers position light would not come on, but it would work as a blinker. Cleaning the socket out fixed that issue, but then I began to have the same issue as Issue #1. Replacing the LED 1157 with a normal 1157 fixed the issue.

Right now all of my lights in the car work as designed. Everything is LED, including headlights and high beams...EXCEPT those 1157 bulbs. Those are not LED anymore.

Thanks for all the help. Now...it's time for a beer.