Water we gonna do now?

[LB78]

Last night I had the car out. Returned home, and as I was walking past the back of the car I noticed that it smelled hot and I was hearing an unfamiliar ticking sound, which I initially assumed was exhaust related. So I popped the deck lid and took a look around and although I didn't see anything immediately wrong, the sound changed to more of a bubbly sound. I took a look under car and to my surprise, cooling water was flowing out of the engine. Further inspection revealed that the leak appeared to be from under a bolt on the lower passenger side of the water pump. So at a minimum, I know there's a blown gasket that needs replacement. But I don't know what would have caused that failure. My first question is, do I need to remove the rear fascia to access the water pump? Second, what other signs for root causes should I be looking for?

[MrChocky]

Last night I had the car out. Returned home, and as I was walking past the back of the car I noticed that it smelled hot and I was hearing an unfamiliar ticking sound, which I initially assumed was exhaust related. So I popped the deck lid and took a look around and although I didn't see anything immediately wrong, the sound changed to more of a bubbly sound. I took a look under car and to my surprise, cooling water was flowing out of the engine. Further inspection revealed that the leak appeared to be from under a bolt on the lower passenger side of the water pump. So at a minimum, I know there's a blown gasket that needs replacement. But I don't know what would have caused that failure. My first question is, do I need to remove the rear fascia to access the water pump? Second, what other signs for root causes should I be looking for?

There's very little on the car that needs the rear fascia removed (unless you have an engine swap). You need to venture into
the valley (VoD) to access the water pump. There's some excellent guides for this, but let us know if you need specific help.
Replacing the water pump is not too onerous - likely do mine next year before it gives out.

It might just be a bust hose (in which case you should probably replace all of them). You probably won't know the cause until
you look in the valley/

[cdrusn]

If I were you I would go to autozone or O'Reilly and borrow their cooling system water pressure tester. Pump it up to 15 lbs. and see if that is the only leak or if it might be somewhere else. Seems quite odd for that bolt to start leaking, maybe you can take that bolt out and put sealant on it.

[TTait]

My bet is that there is a leak in the Valley of death - the area below the intake manifold and between the heads. when that fills up with coolant it will either flow out of the forward end of the engine over the transmission area, or it will come out around the water pump, as you are experiencing. If you are parked on a steep downhill and the leak shifts to the other end of the engine that would tell you something, but on level ground the water pump end of the valley is usually a little lower in my sad experience.

None of those bolts that are used to mount the water pump or hold the timing chain cover in place go thru into the water jacket, sealing them won't solve your problem.

The good news is that going into the valley of death isn't as awful as it sounds. Get prepared to remove a lot of parts one at a time. Take pictures as you go, and separate and label all the bolts as they come out. Do not disconnect the AC compressor hoses - this can be done without actually discharging the AC system. You can unbolt the AC compressor from its mounts an leave it connected and move it onto a towel on the drivers side pontoon near the glass.

There are going to be lots of opportunities for "while you are in there" replacements and upgrades, so this can get as expensive as you let it get. If you haven't done this before, don't panic, but don't expect to get it all done in a day or weekend. You can get it all apart in a few hours, but then you need to assess what your going to replace, order the parts, and then clean and refurbish and then start replacing and putting things back together.

The most important thing to remember is that you must not shear off any bolts as you do this. Don't force anything. Take your time. Use penetrating oil. etc. Once you get the Intake manifold off then most of the dicey work is off but you'll ​still have to be careful with the water pump bolts themselves, and a few other bits. Just go slow and label everything. As long as you don't snap any bolts you will be fine.

What you find and what you choose to replace its too soon to say, but you may be evaluating and considering replacing: Air filter, W pipe paper gaskets and o rings, W pipe o ring spacer rings, Throttle microswitch, WOT microswitch(es), Copper washers on Fuel injection system, many o rings, Plugs, cap, wires and rotor, its a good time to upgrade the fuel injection lines and vacuum hoses, belts, Thermotime switch, thermal vacuum switch, temp switch, all of the hoses on the back of the water pump, thermostat and gasket, water pump side hoses to heads, flange adapters and gaskets. lots of hose clamps, Heater control valve, Main vacuum check valve, doing a clutch hydraulics bleed (MT only), adding a cooling system auto bleeder, replacing the otterstadt while the system is dry (ALWAYS install the otterstad with the two blades of the terminals pointing side to side in the car and put a cable tire between them, around the otterstat and pipe before plugging it back in), maybe replacing all of the cooling system hoses while the system is drained, testing or ultrasonic cleaning your injectors (harbor freight sells a cheap ultrasonic jewelry cleaner unit that can work), injector hold down clips and new seals, and if your doing a clean up on the fuel system a fuel filter. So... This isn't going to be a trip to pep boys to buy something to seal up a bolt. There is a lot to look at while you work your way down to the leak, and a lot to decide if you need to also address while you are in there.

Just don't snap any bolts. Ask questions - this forum is a godsend - everyone here has your back.

[Ron]

If I were you I would go to autozone or O'Reilly and borrow their cooling system water pressure tester. Pump it up to 15 lbs. and see if that is the only leak or if it might be somewhere else.
+1

It would be good to find the leak before taking anything loose if possible.
When you pump it up, take a mirror and look at the bottom side of the pump just behind the pulley for the weep hole. Coolant will come out there when the shaft has too much play or its seal goes bad. ...might save you some work (and snapped bolts previously mentioned).

If it is actually coming from under the bolt head, the gasket is probably bad and allowing it to get into the mounting hole (not likely)...the threads in the engine for the bolt don't go deep enough to hit coolant like some engines have.

[Helirich]

adding a cooling system auto bleeder, replacing the otterstadt while the system is dry (ALWAYS install the otterstad with the two blades of the terminals pointing side to side in the car and put a cable tire between them, around the otterstat and pipe before plugging it back in),

If I may hyjack this thread for a moment, could you explain this statement? What exactly are we fixing/preventing here? (Mine is not done like that)

[Ron]

If I may hyjack this thread for a moment, could you explain this statement? What exactly are we fixing/preventing here? (Mine is not done like that)
$.02

The auto bleeder is convenient, but it is not needed and can mask problems.
(If you let the thermostat cycle a few times before capping the tank, the "100502 AIR BLEED CONN HOSE" will send air to the tank. (Parts Manual 1-3-1, #7.) Note #30, the reservoir overflow hose, has the same name, and to make matters worse, DMCH online parts shows this part number twice (https://store.delorean.com/parts/engine/1-3-1-radiator-piping.html), calling both a "Reservoir Hose".)
A lot of confusion over this.

Not sure what 'side to side' means here either, but the otterstat terminals should go down.
This is done to keep coolant in contact with the the otterstat, in case the coolant is low or there's air in the pipe.

[TTait]

If I may hyjack this thread for a moment, could you explain this statement? What exactly are we fixing/preventing here? (Mine is not done like that)

The clip that holds the otterstadt in place can fail. Its happened to me and others before me. In my case I was going 55mph on the freeway and another driver pulled up beside me and warned me I was leaking gasoline badly. My gauges all looked fine and I couldn't really see anything wrong in the mirrors but I pulled over immediately to the shoulder to find my clip had come loose and the otterstad had been forced out of the pipe and was hanging by the wiring harness.

By securing the otterstadt with a cable tie in addition to the the standard clip - this won't happen. I know there are other obscure options for otterstadts that screw in as well, but this works fine.

I was very lucky. We don't have a radiator fluid level sensor, just a fluid temp sensor and I can tell you for sure that it won't tell you a thing if you have a sudden loss of all of your coolant, you're engine will just overheat and stall out within, I'm glad I don't know for sure, but maybe 3 miles? I've had top side coolant leaks where you can see steam in coming off the top of the engine cover in the rear view mirror, and in those cases the remaining water temp rises enough to give you an indication on the temp gauge that something is going on, but when 2 gallons shoots out at 15 psi straight down under the car at highway speeds you will likely only know when the engine overheats and locks up.

I have now been running cable ties on the advice of someone here for more than 10 years on two Deloreans, and I sleep much better knowing they have been there. I can post a diagram if my description isn't clear but there is one somewhere on the board already somewhere.

Ron is correct, my description above was not clear. The pipe gets rotated so the sensor is down. The otterstat gets rotated so the parallel terminals are lined up pointing to the left and right sides of the car. That way when you wrap a cable tie around the pipe it can go between the two terminals on the otterstat. Then you plug the wires onto the terminals over the cable tie.

T

[Helirich]

Ron is correct, my description above was not clear. The pipe gets rotated so the sensor is down. The otterstat gets rotated so the parallel terminals are lined up pointing to the left and right sides of the car. That way when you wrap a cable tie around the pipe it can go between the two terminals on the otterstat. Then you plug the wires onto the terminals over the cable tie.
T

Ah! Yes, that is the way mine is arranged. It even has the tierap. Thanks.

[JBaker4981]

Just my 2 cents but get yourself a cheap wire camera/borescope from amazon and shove it underneath the intake manifold along side the water pump on the passenger side. This will allow you to see if there is any coolant pooling in the VOD without going digging.

[MrChocky]

The clip that holds the otterstadt in place can fail. Its happened to me and others before me. In my case I was going 55mph on the freeway and another driver pulled up beside me and warned me I was leaking gasoline badly. My gauges all looked fine and I couldn't really see anything wrong in the mirrors but I pulled over immediately to the shoulder to find my clip had come loose and the otterstad had been forced out of the pipe and was hanging by the wiring harness.

By securing the otterstadt with a cable tie in addition to the the standard clip - this won't happen. I know there are other obscure options for otterstadts that screw in as well, but this works fine.

I was very lucky. We don't have a radiator fluid level sensor, just a fluid temp sensor and I can tell you for sure that it won't tell you a thing if you have a sudden loss of all of your coolant, you're engine will just overheat and stall out within, I'm glad I don't know for sure, but maybe 3 miles? I've had top side coolant leaks where you can see steam in coming off the top of the engine cover in the rear view mirror, and in those cases the remaining water temp rises enough to give you an indication on the temp gauge that something is going on, but when 2 gallons shoots out at 15 psi straight down under the car at highway speeds you will likely only know when the engine overheats and locks up.

I have now been running cable ties on the advice of someone here for more than 10 years on two Deloreans, and I sleep much better knowing they have been there. I can post a diagram if my description isn't clear but there is one somewhere on the board already somewhere.

Ron is correct, my description above was not clear. The pipe gets rotated so the sensor is down. The otterstat gets rotated so the parallel terminals are lined up pointing to the left and right sides of the car. That way when you wrap a cable tie around the pipe it can go between the two terminals on the otterstat. Then you plug the wires onto the terminals over the cable tie.

T


Am I required to be the person who points out the various spellings here of "otterstat" :o

But anyway, yes, I found my clip hanging out in the wires, when I replaced it. I've since put a single zip tie. I've seen a fair bit of talk about
using two ties instead to avoid pressure on the fragile middle section, but I've yet to find either a photo or a good description of
the exact technique. Anyone?

My new project car has none of these problems - the pipe is installed upside down, and it seems the otterstat is not
wired in anyway!

And as you point out, DeLoreanGo offer a more secure screw in option.

[mhanch]

This was a great tip. I checked my Otterstat and no zip tie. Took about a minute to add and nice to have the safety. This should be on the new owner checklist.

[FABombjoy]

Am I required to be the person who points out the various spellings here of "otterstat" :o
Another pertinent question could be: Why 'otterstat' when most of the known universe calls it a 'cooling fan switch'?

[LB78]

Couple weeks ago I posted a thread about a potential failed water pump. This is a follow up thread to that.

I've found that I either made an error, or there was previously some type of modification to the stock configuration of the water return pipe. I cannot recall exactly how it went when I took that piece out of the VOD. I did, however, label a single bolt "pipe under K-jet" and I put it in a bag. Knowing myself, this is what I would have done, not having known the actual names for each part when I took them out.

I've studied several diagrams both from my workshop manual and a few online sources, and each of those diagrams calls for an M7, 1/2" nominal length bolt for this purpose. The single bolt I pulled and labeled is narrower and ~2.5" long. Neither the new bolt included with my hardware kit (part #104173 on delorean.com) nor the bolt I labeled seems to be appropriate for this situation. The mounting point on the block in the VOD is too large and not threaded. The bolt I am pretty sure I pulled is too narrow. The new spec hardware is far too short.

Anyone have any ideas?

[MrChocky]

Couple weeks ago I posted a thread about a potential failed water pump. This is a follow up thread to that.

I've found that I either made an error, or there was previously some type of modification to the stock configuration of the water return pipe. I cannot recall exactly how it went when I took that piece out of the VOD. I did, however, label a single bolt "pipe under K-jet" and I put it in a bag. Knowing myself, this is what I would have done, not having known the actual names for each part when I took them out.

I've studied several diagrams both from my workshop manual and a few online sources, and each of those diagrams calls for an M7, 1/2" nominal length bolt for this purpose. The single bolt I pulled and labeled is narrower and ~2.5" long. Neither the new bolt included with my hardware kit (part #104173 on delorean.com) nor the bolt I labeled seems to be appropriate for this situation. The mounting point on the block in the VOD is too large and not threaded. The bolt I am pretty sure I pulled is too narrow. The new spec hardware is far too short.

Anyone have any ideas?

I'm not sure if this is going to help or not, but the Y-pipe is held down by 4 M7 bolts of 2 different lengths (102147, 102148). These bolts are only partially threaded, since the Y-pipe has no thread, only the block.
On my car, the top right hole was severely corroded and I had to rethread, I think it's an M10. It's this hole that the heater return pipe tab is also attached to.

The #104173 part is indeed quite short, and there's no way it'd be long enough to go there, although the diagram suggests it also does.

66638

[LB78]

OK, so I found the original bolt and was able to reuse. It's definitely not an M7, nor was it a half-inch long. I'd guess M10, 1.25" or thereabouts.

I'm really really struggling with the manifold. It was a cast-iron you know what to get it out the first time. The edges kept getting caught on the clips that hold the spark plugs in place. I hoped putting it in would be easier. But, it's not. Also, come to find out there's a very serious corrosion problem in the bolthole for the right rear manifold bolt. I noticed a little more difficulty compared with the other 3 bolts when I took it out, but the threads in that spot are so bad I am unable to thread the new bolt into the hole. I don't want to damage the casting.

At the moment, I'm allowing the open hole to soak in PB Blaster overnight. If this doesn't work to improve the usability of that hole I'm going to pick up the proper tap and see if that will clean it up enough to get the manifold bolted down. As an extreme contingency plan, I'll re-drill the hole to a larger size, and then tap a new thread and use a larger bolt in that position. Hopefully it won't come to that. But, luck favors the prepared.

[Helirich]

OK, As an extreme contingency plan, I'll re-drill the hole to a larger size, and then tap a new thread and use a larger bolt in that position. Hopefully it won't come to that. But, luck favors the prepared.

Heli-coil not an option?

[LB78]

Believe it or not I'd never heard of heli coil before today. So that'd be a better choice if it comes to it.

[LB78]

I replaced the water pump on my car. Everything was carefully and meticulously removed and labeled, compared against new hardware, and then after a nearly perfectly thorough flush, reassembled with new parts, including all new hoses, clamps, pump, thermostat, housing, etc. The cooling system in the engine bay is 100% brand new at this point. After burping, I got the car started and it immediately pissed coolant straight out of the weephole behind the pulley. This is exactly the same symptom that caused me to start this whole project in the first place.

As I see it, there's a short list of things that could be happening:
1 - The new pump is bad in exactly the same way the old one was (I do not find this to be very likely)
2 - There's some other cause that I do not know.

So, I am back to the drawing board. Anyone have any ideas? What's going on here?

[Stainless]

Can you post pictures or a video of the leakage? That may help us provide better directions.

[David T]

If the water pump is leaking from the weep hole, the only reason for that is the shaft seal is no good. Shaft seals wear out, especially if the motor is run without any coolant, the coolant lubricates and cools the seal. On a new pump either it was not assembled correctly when built, the seal was defective, or more possible, the shaft was bumped (dropped) when in the box or before you installed it. No matter how or why, the water pump must be removed and rebuilt or replaced. The seal is ceramic and a hard shock can crack it. On a brandy new pump a slight amount of weeping (a drop or two) is OK but it should stop quickly once it runs a bit.

[Ron]

+1 David and Jared.

[LB78]

I wanted to be really sure, so I took off the rear fascia and got a much better view of the entire thing, and yes, definitely the coolant is coming directly from the weep hole. Thus, I know the new pump to have failed. Thanks so much for everyone who has commented so far. Now I need to work on getting another one of these things here ASAP so I can, you know... Take half the engine apart and put it back together again. :8ball:

[Ron]

:swear1:Been there before -- Hang in there!