Front coilovers the easy (and fast) way

[Helirich]

My car seemed to be higher in the front than the back. I figured if I got some adjustable coilovers, I could even it out. There's several companies that make adjustable rear coilovers, but I only found two companies that make them for the front. Delorean Industries and KW. I called them both for pricing and KW never got back to me. I didn't really like the "clown colors" on the KWs anyways, so I ordered a set from DI.

66329

Nice looking stuff, but that's not really the subject of this thread. This trick will work no matter who you choose. I watched several videos on changing to the coilovers and they all were pretty much the same. Jack the car up, pull the wheel, remove the swaybar and shock. Then they proceed to install a spring compressor. Of course, it doesn't fit very good and you must grab six coils for it to work. You can't get a ratchet on the one side because something's in the way. Basically, it's a PITA.

Well I went from this.

66330

To this.

66331

In 25 minutes, and a good bit of that time was cutting off the lower spring cup that I found out later I didn't need to remove. Note, in the pic, the swaybar is off the front. This is not required to complete this job.

66332

How did I do it? Cut off wheel. I wasn't trying save the spring and I knew I didn't need a spring compressor to install the coilover, so I figured "why not cut it"?

66333

I know what your thinking. We've all heard stories of people killing them selves removing springs without spring compressors. Well, you be the judge. I left the shock in place, so the spring (or parts of it) can't get off the car untill you remove it. After you cut four coils, the spring is loose. You remove the shock and the spring just falls off in pieces.

Of course, ware safety glasses and don't put your hands around the springs till they are obviously loose. There is one other trick or hint I will give you. You need to angle the cut off wheel slightly from vertical. You need to think about how the spring will "jump" when the final 1/8" of steel gets cut. You want the spring to seperate from the cut off wheel. If you angle it the wrong way, the two pieces of spring will pinch the wheel. If you were to do this, your wheel will be destroyed in one cut. I was able to cut all eight coils with one wheel. (Nearly wore out at the end)

EDIT:
I guess my "how to" wasn't very good on the steps. It should be more like this.

1. Jack up front of car and place jack stands.
2. Remove wheels.
3. Unlock steering so you can easily get at what you want.
4. Back off the upper and lower control arm bolts at the frame. (Just one turn will do)
5. Cut four coils on each spring with a 4" cutoff wheel. (I started with the lowest coil I could get at) Cut them so the coil releases the cutoff wheel, not pinch.

Note. The first three coils give a hard snap when they release. The forth not so much. In any case, the spring should not be under any tension when finished cutting.

6. Remove the top and bottom shock mount bolts and take the shock out the bottom.
7. Remove the spring pieces.
8. Remove or modify the lower spring cup.

Note. The coilovers allow you to lower their car by 4". If you are planing to lower it that much, you need to remove the spring cup. If you are only going to lower the car an inch or two, you can get away with out removing it. At a minimum, I would grind the inner edge of the cup down. It makes the coilover assembly easier.

9. Disassemble the coilover and hold the two nuts and spring in between the control arms.
10. Slide the shock up through the lower arm, nuts and spring. Thread the nuts on as far as they will go.
11. Install the top D-cup on the coilover. This is a little "fiddlily" to get in there.
12. Install the nut and lock nut on the top of the coilover.
13. Start threading the spring nuts on by hand till you line up the lower mount holes.
14. Install the lower mount bolt with the spacers supplied.

Note. At this point, you need a starting point for your height adjustment. I threaded the spring nut untill I had 2" of threads on the bottom. At that height, I couldn't get the jack out from under the car when I lowered it. So I lowered it on ramps.

15. Set your height to your desire with the car jacked up and checking it by lowering it on the ramps. (Multiple times)
16. When you think you have it right back the car off the ramps and take final measurements.
17. If you like it, pull it back on the ramp and tighten the control arm and shock bolts. Also, tighten the lock nut on your coilover with the supplied spanner wrenches.

I couldn't edit this into my original post. Maybe admin could move it up there.

[Josh]

This is some redneck shit.
Glad you did not get hurt, but this is hardly advice or a how-to for others.

KWs will not sell fronts and rears separately. They are sold in black now, not purple and yellow.

[Helirich]

This is some redneck shit.
Glad you did not get hurt, but this is hardly advice or a how-to for others.

KWs will not sell fronts and rears separately. They are sold in black now, not purple and yellow.

It might sound sketchy, but it really wasn't a big deal. It was more scary pressing the wheel bearings out of the hubs. (Had to put allot of force on them and a little heat. When they let loose it shook the whole press)

On the KWs,
So if you buy a complete set and one shock gets damaged, you must buy another complete set?

[Helirich]

Josh, I know you have a negative opinion of me, but in the interest of safety, could you voice your specific fear here? I took one of the rings and tried to force it around the shock.

66336

I could not force it by hand. (I probably could hammer it over.) You see it would have to be at 90 degrees to go. There is no way to turn it 90 degrees with the rest of the spring in there. I really don't see how something is going to hurt someone. But I'll let you explain.

[Ron]

Speaking of necks, I'm going to stick mine out here and guess there are a few steps not listed in the procedure...involving a 2nd floor jack and a pickle fork, perhaps?

....Aaand, I have a dumb question. Wouldn't a little acetylene have been cheaper than the disk, and even faster? :deviltail:

[Helirich]

Speaking of necks, I'm going to stick mine out here and guess there are a few steps not listed in the procedure...involving a 2nd floor jack and a pickle fork, perhaps?

....Aaand, I have a dumb question. Wouldn't a little acetylene have been cheaper than the disk, and even faster? :deviltail:

No other floor jack. No pickle fork. Acetylene would work, but not everyone has that. A 4 1/2" grinder is pretty common. Also, when acetylene breaks through that last little bit of spring, it might flip a molten piece of lava at your face. (Or the fuel tank)

On that note, I will give another recommendation. Fill the fuel tank. People often think it's better to have it empty. But gas doesn't explode, fumes do. The less room for fumes, the less explosion.

[Ron]

No other floor jack. No pickle fork. Acetylene would work, but not everyone has that. A 4 1/2" grinder is pretty common. Also, when acetylene breaks through that last little bit of spring, it might flip a molten piece of lava at your face. (Or the fuel tank)

FWIW:
I understood you had acetylene...
And using the method I was thinking of, there is no danger of that because the spring would not be compressed (no compressors either), but I'm not going there....

[Helirich]

I guess my "how to" wasn't very good on the steps. It should be more like this.

1. Jack up front of car and place jack stands.
2. Remove wheels.
3. Unlock steering so you can easily get at what you want.
4. Back off the upper and lower control arm bolts at the frame. (Just one turn will do)
5. Cut four coils on each spring with a 4" cutoff wheel. (I started with the lowest coil I could get at) Cut them so the coil releases the cutoff wheel, not pinch.

Note. The first three coils give a hard snap when they release. The forth not so much. In any case, the spring should not be under any tension when finished cutting.

6. Remove the top and bottom shock mount bolts and take the shock out the bottom.
7. Remove the spring pieces.
8. Remove or modify the lower spring cup.

Note. The coilovers allow you to lower their car by 4". If you are planing to lower it that much, you need to remove the spring cup. If you are only going to lower the car an inch or two, you can get away with out removing it. At a minimum, I would grind the inner edge of the cup down. It makes the coilover assembly easier.

9. Disassemble the coilover and hold the two nuts and spring in between the control arms.
10. Slide the shock up through the lower arm, nuts and spring. Thread the nuts on as far as they will go.
11. Install the top D-cup on the coilover. This is a little "fiddlily" to get in there.
12. Install the nut and lock nut on the top of the coilover.
13. Start threading the spring nuts on by hand till you line up the lower mount holes.
14. Install the lower mount bolt with the spacers supplied.

Note. At this point, you need a starting point for your height adjustment. I threaded the spring nut untill I had 2" of threads on the bottom. At that height, I couldn't get the jack out from under the car when I lowered it. So I lowered it on ramps.

15. Set your height to your desire with the car jacked up and checking it by lowering it on the ramps. (Multiple times)
16. When you think you have it right back the car off the ramps and take final measurements.
17. If you like it, pull it back on the ramp and tighten the control arm and shock bolts. Also, tighten the lock nut on your coilover with the supplied spanner wrenches.

I couldn't edit this into my original post. Maybe admin could move it up there.

[Mark D]

Obvious spring cutting safety concerns aside, you can rent spring compressors for free from auto zone, oreilly, advance auto, etc.

Plus when you remove the springs intact you could actually make a few bucks selling them instead of throwing the cut up scraps into the bin. Not that there is a huge market for stock front springs, but still.

I'm glad you didn't get hurt cutting the springs and that the rest of your installation of the coilovers went alright.

My only other concern would be that removing the spring perches from the LCA's may have weakened them due to the loss of material, and any slight nicks, cuts, or gouges you may have introduced into the remaining sheet metal. The stock LCA's are not the most robust parts to begin with so adding stress concentration points could potentially lead to cracks or fatigue failure later on down the road.

I know DPI sells their own stainless LCA's without the spring perch for their coilover setup, but those are significantly beefed up in material thickness and there were several rounds of testing and revisions to that design.

[Bitsyncmaster]

For the front you can use an internal spring compressor if you remove the shock first. Then you don't have the space issue or the spring not compressing equally.

[Helirich]

Obvious spring cutting safety concerns aside, you can rent spring compressors for free from auto zone, oreilly, advance auto, etc.

Plus when you remove the springs intact you could actually make a few bucks selling them instead of throwing the cut up scraps into the bin. Not that there is a huge market for stock front springs, but still.

I'm glad you didn't get hurt cutting the springs and that the rest of your installation of the coilovers went alright.

My only other concern would be that removing the spring perches from the LCA's may have weakened them due to the loss of material, and any slight nicks, cuts, or gouges you may have introduced into the remaining sheet metal. The stock LCA's are not the most robust parts to begin with so adding stress concentration points could potentially lead to cracks or fatigue failure later on down the road.

I know DPI sells their own stainless LCA's without the spring perch for their coilover setup, but those are significantly beefed up in material thickness and there were several rounds of testing and revisions to that design.

I had thought about the strength lost from the spring cup. DPI mentioned I might want to remove it. Now that I've worked on these, I have to say they are pretty Mickey Mouse. (Even with the cup) I might have to buy a new set from DPI. I really think I could make a good set quite easily. Right now I have too much on my plate to work on it.

[Josh]

Obvious spring cutting safety concerns aside, you can rent spring compressors for free from auto zone, oreilly, advance auto, etc.

Plus when you remove the springs intact you could actually make a few bucks selling them instead of throwing the cut up scraps into the bin. Not that there is a huge market for stock front springs, but still.

I'm glad you didn't get hurt cutting the springs and that the rest of your installation of the coilovers went alright.

My only other concern would be that removing the spring perches from the LCA's may have weakened them due to the loss of material, and any slight nicks, cuts, or gouges you may have introduced into the remaining sheet metal. The stock LCA's are not the most robust parts to begin with so adding stress concentration points could potentially lead to cracks or fatigue failure later on down the road.

I know DPI sells their own stainless LCA's without the spring perch for their coilover setup, but those are significantly beefed up in material thickness and there were several rounds of testing and revisions to that design.

removing the spring seats is fairly common practice when installing coilovers, many people have done it. They also usually box the arm and reinforce the balljoint area though as these are known weak points.

The Billet DPI LCA arm is aluminum, not stainless steel. Same goes for the LCA deloreango is selling. DPI used to make sheetmetal LCAs but they are superseded by the aluminum units.

[Mark D]

removing the spring seats is fairly common practice when installing coilovers, many people have done it. They also usually box the arm and reinforce the balljoint area though as these are known weak points.

The Billet DPI LCA arm is aluminum, not stainless steel. Same goes for the LCA deloreango is selling. DPI used to make sheetmetal LCAs but they are superseded by the aluminum units.

Yeah that's a good point, I think all the failed stock LCA's I've seen photos of were cracked around where the ball joint is attached.

Good to know on the aluminum LCA's as well. I was thinking DPI was still making the welded stainless sheet metal ones but it looks like the "Gen 3" version is billet aluminum like you said. I had to go back and search and see what the SS ones looked like and holy crap it's already been like 4 years since they switched to aluminum. I've gotta get with the times.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?15469-DeLorean-Industries-Stainless-Lower-control-arms-with-spring-cup-(NEW)&highlight=stainless+control+arms

[dn010]

I once tried to do something stupid like this and had a shard of hardened steel fly off and shoot into the skin of my hand, down into the knuckle of my thumb. I still have the x-rays from the ER. I left the shard where it was for years until I needed an MRI and it required surgery to remove.

Just because the larger spring pieces can't "fly off" and is caught by the shock, doesn't mean something can't break into pieces and still get you. I am just happy mine was my thumb and not something else like my eye.

Use a spring compressor.

[Helirich]

I once tried to do something stupid like this and had a shard of hardened steel fly off and shoot into the skin of my hand, down into the knuckle of my thumb. I still have the x-rays from the ER. I left the shard where it was for years until I needed an MRI and it required surgery to remove.

Just because the larger spring pieces can't "fly off" and is caught by the shock, doesn't mean something can't break into pieces and still get you. I am just happy mine was my thumb and not something else like my eye.

Use a spring compressor.

"Something can't break off"? What are you talking about? Be specific. Ware safety glasses. Ware a face shield. Ware thick gloves. Better yet, you should hire someone else to do this. Stay home and ware a mask so you don't get sick.

Let's face it, a spring compressor can fail also.

[Josh]

"Something can't break off"? What are you talking about? Be specific. Ware safety glasses. Ware a face shield. Ware thick gloves. Better yet, you should hire someone else to do this. Stay home and ware a mask so you don't get sick.

Let's face it, a spring compressor can fail also.

How dare someone question you!
i have no idea how mask usage and covid has anything to do with this. You are a moron.

Dan has owned his delorean for decades. He has done engine swaps, transmission rebuilds, and a full EFI conversion. You need to post daily threads asking why your car isnt running right. Maybe you should be hiring your mechanical work out.

[dn010]

Thank you Josh, time flies!

Helirich - While I can appreciate your Bill Robertson approach to working on your DeLorean, the point of my post was that cutting compressed springs is unpredictable. While you think you're all good and safe with your practice (I too am glad nothing bad happened in your case), there are times where it simply will not be the case for others, clearly. Sure, you can "ware" [sic] all sorts of equipment, top off the fuel tank and I guess wear your mask too if that's your thing, but I am not going to jump into a bubble to remove springs. I will do as suggested and use spring compressors after learning experiences from long ago. It doesn't really matter how or why or what happened in my case, the point is that something CAN happen and injure you with this practice. Someone new is going to come on here looking for a shortcut, read this thread and try it - I couldn't imagine cutting an early Grady lowering spring without something going terribly wrong - or did you forget there are different springs out there with different rates you're telling people to take a wheel to.

As an aside: did you know you could just short out the electrical wiring your working on in your attic to trip the breaker instead of climbing down and doing it the "hard" way? There are good chances it will work without starting a fire but it's probably not a good idea to write up a how-to on it and post it over on electriciantalk.

[Helirich]

How dare someone question you!
i have no idea how mask usage and covid has anything to do with this. You are a moron.

Dan has owned his delorean for decades. He has done engine swaps, transmission rebuilds, and a full EFI conversion. You need to post daily threads asking why your car isnt running right. Maybe you should be hiring your mechanical work out.

Josh, I don't mind him (or you) questioning me. As I said earlier, in the interest of safety, I would like to here your fears. Then other people can decide for them selves about the risks. That was my point about the masks. If you want to ware a mask because you deturmine there's a risk and a mask will help, feel free to ware one. But when someone points out there is no evidence that masks work, I can hear you say, "shut up and lessen to the professional that has years of experience".

That additude does not convince me. You listing his accomplishments does not convince me. You don't know me or my accomplishments. If I were to list more accomplishments than you or him, would that convince you? I hope not. The only thing that would convince me is a rational explanation.


Thank you Josh, time flies!

Helirich - While I can appreciate your Bill Robertson approach to working on your DeLorean, the point of my post was that cutting compressed springs is unpredictable. While you think you're all good and safe with your practice (I too am glad nothing bad happened in your case), there are times where it simply will not be the case for others, clearly. Sure, you can "ware" [sic] all sorts of equipment, top off the fuel tank and I guess wear your mask too if that's your thing, but I am not going to jump into a bubble to remove springs. I will do as suggested and use spring compressors after learning experiences from long ago. It doesn't really matter how or why or what happened in my case, the point is that something CAN happen and injure you with this practice. Someone new is going to come on here looking for a shortcut, read this thread and try it - I couldn't imagine cutting an early Grady lowering spring without something going terribly wrong - or did you forget there are different springs out there with different rates you're telling people to take a wheel to.

I don't know who Bill Robertson is, but I'm giving people an option here. Im not telling them to do it this way. Im telling them how It can be done. I would hope they would read it and decide for themselves if it's for them. I'm not sure what differnce a lowering spring would make. But somebody doing that job would need to decide if this will work.

When you say "something CAN happen", I agree. Something can always happen. I bet that someone has been hurt using a spring compressor. If I find an instance of that on the net, would you advise against useing one? What if I found someone that simply said "I did something stupid like that with a spring compressor and knocked my eye out". Then went on to discribe his eye problems. Would that convince you not to use a spring compressor?

I can tell by your post that you are not as young as Josh and it's likely you do have more expertise to offer. But this is the net, you need to explain why, you can't just deliver tablets from a mountain top.

[dn010]

Josh and it's likely you do have more expertise to offer.

I don't think so. We might have started the same displacement long ago, but now Josh's engine is bigger than mine. I'm sure he's got bigger calipers hanging than I do too.

[Helirich]

I don't think so. We might have started the same displacement long ago, but now Josh's engine is bigger than mine. I'm sure he's got bigger calipers hanging than I do too.

I'm not going to touch that. Ha-ha.

You might think that I hate Josh because apparently he hates me. This is not so. I think he's a young guy with lots of piss and vinegar. I don't have use of a 10 second Delorean, but he wants one and is working to make it happen. I like that! It seems to me these day young people don't do anything. When I see 30 something guys in an auto parts store, they usually are buying wiper blades. (And then they have the employee install them)

I'll buy Josh a beer some day. (If he'll let me)

[Ron]

I don't think so. We might have started the same displacement long ago, but now Josh's engine is bigger than mine. I'm sure he's got bigger calipers hanging than I do too.That response displays the the worst case of shortcomings I have ever seen in a How-To here in over a decade -- It's already apparent, from Josh's posts, that he has a fairly large set, and, when it comes to expertise, we all know size has nothing to do with it.

[Josh]

That response displays the the worst case of shortcomings I have ever seen in a How-To here in over a decade -- It's already apparent, from Josh's posts, that he has a fairly large set, and, when it comes to expertise, we all know size has nothing to do with it.

:Headspin:

[dn010]

That response displays the the worst case of shortcomings I have ever seen in a How-To here in over a decade -- It's already apparent, from Josh's posts, that he has a fairly large set, and, when it comes to expertise, we all know size has nothing to do with it.


:hysterical:

Really what it boils down to is that I couldn't let the helicopter man's "more expertise" comment go as it just isn't so. I do work on many different cars and engines of all different years along with my own D engine swap etc. but Josh has come up with EFI solutions & modifications for the 3.0 and has helped many people out with parts and support, then he completed his LS conversion along with offering solutions for that swap as well - far more than what I did. To disregard advice he gives you in his posts is just ridiculous.

[Ron]

:hysterical:...Now that's the way to put it to him!

[Ron]

:hysterical:...Much better way to put it to him!