View Full Version : Troubleshooting Hazard switch
JavaRacer
05-26-2021, 03:03 PM
Greetings! I'm troubleshooting but learning all about 12v electrical and wiring diagrams all at the same time...
Hazard switch blows Fuse 6 with the battery cut-off turned on and no key in the ignition. Doesn't blow when the switch is unplugged. Using a test light at the plug (not the switch), it lights up on pin 2 with the ignition off, and lights up on pins 1 and 2 with the key turned just before hitting the ignition start position. Does this mean my wiring is good and my switch is bad? Thanks in advance!66404
Greetings! I'm troubleshooting but learning all about 12v electrical and wiring diagrams all at the same time...
Hazard switch blows Fuse 6 with the battery cut-off turned on and no key in the ignition. Doesn't blow when the switch is unplugged. Using a test light at the plug (not the switch), it lights up on pin 2 with the ignition off, and lights up on pins 1 and 2 with the key turned just before hitting the ignition start position. Does this mean my wiring is good and my switch is bad? Thanks in advance!66404
Does it do this with the hazard switch turned on AND off?
JavaRacer
05-26-2021, 08:48 PM
Does it do this with the hazard switch turned on AND off?
Yes, it doesn't matter if the switch is turned off or on. As soon as I turn the battery cut-off on, it blows the fuse. A few fuses ago, it worked briefly, turned on and off a couple of times then blew. Now it just blows the fuse without even touching the switch, whether it's on or off.
It does it with the switch turned off. As soon as I turn the battery cut-off on, it blows the fuse. A few fuses ago, it worked briefly, turned on and off a couple of times then blew. Now it just blows the fuse without even touching the switch.Ok, first to be clear, you are showing power on the socket (not the plug) when checking from ground to pin #2 whenever the battery is connected and the key off or turned to run. And it does not blow fuse #6 when the hazard switch is off. Correct?
WHO1DMC
05-26-2021, 09:10 PM
Just a thought here. Did you replace the bulb? If the wires to the bulb aren't perfectly aligned they could short out. I would pull the bulb and see what happens. If there is one ofcourse.
Dave B.
Hehe, Just saw your edit...
Ok, pin #4 is being shorted to ground blowing fuse #6. Pin #6's connection between Pins #4/#5 is swapped when the switch is cycled. When the hazard switch is off, pin #4 is not connected to anything, so suspect a short internal to the hazard switch. Confirm by checking continuity between pins #4 and #7.
Something odd- the socket's pin #2 should not have a wire going to it (unless it is part of the brake light wiring change....trying to remember it.)
What color is the wire going to pin #2?
JavaRacer
05-26-2021, 09:42 PM
Ok, first to be clear, you are showing power on the socket (not the plug) when checking from ground to pin #2 whenever the battery is connected and the key off or turned to run. And it does not blow fuse #6 when the hazard switch is off. Correct?
Ahhh, yes! The SOCKET! Thanks! And, yes, correct! Although I am using a test light, grounded to the ground point on the radio bracket, NOT the ground pin in the socket, to be clear. And it does not blow fuse 6.
Pus, when the key is turned to run, I also get power on pin 1.
JavaRacer
05-26-2021, 09:44 PM
Just a thought here. Did you replace the bulb? If the wires to the bulb aren't perfectly aligned they could short out. I would pull the bulb and see what happens. If there is one ofcourse.
Dave B.
I did replace the bulb with an LED. But swapped in an orginal incandescent to see what would happen. Still blew the fuse. I'll give it a shot with no bulb and see what happens, although I would think that would more likely affect Fuse 8, rather than 6, no?
JavaRacer
05-26-2021, 09:54 PM
Hehe, Just saw your edit...
Ok, pin #4 is being shorted to ground blowing fuse #6. Pin #6's connection between Pins #4/#5 is swapped when the switch is cycled. When the hazard switch is off, pin #4 is not connected to anything, so suspect a short internal to the hazard switch. Confirm by checking continuity between pins #4 and #7.
Something odd- the socket's pin #2 should not have a wire going to it (unless it is part of the brake light wiring change....trying to remember it.)
What color is the wire going to pin #2?
Pins and colors in the socket are as follows...
1 - Green
2 - Purple AND Black (2 wires)
3 - Red
4 - nothing
5 - Yellow AND Green w/ Brown Stripe (2 wires)
6 - Green w/red
7 - Green w/white
9 - Black
10 - Green w/white
Pins and colors in the socket are as follows...
1 - Green
2 - Purple AND Black (2 wires)
3 - Red
4 - nothing
5 - Yellow AND Green w/ Brown Stripe (2 wires)
6 - Green w/red
7 - Green w/white
9 - Black
10 - Green w/white
That's not like the schematic you posted or anything I have seen. In any case, purple to black is a dead short.
Note there are green and light green wires...
(still looking...)
JavaRacer
05-26-2021, 10:36 PM
That's not like the schematic you posted or anything I have seen. In any case, purple to black is a dead short.
Note there are green and light green wires...
(still looking...)
I’m probably misunderstanding the schematic. Maybe the schematic is the back side of the socket? I was looking at it and describing as if looking into the female end of the socket. Here are pictures of what I’ve got...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/09fc9279b4146a3fcc30f9ddea2c82e4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/bab1ff256887280950c24f1de6e6e6f9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/f92e683afcbb5d0ee16266f694d68f79.jpg
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WHO1DMC
05-26-2021, 10:39 PM
I did replace the bulb with an LED. But swapped in an orginal incandescent to see what would happen. Still blew the fuse. I'll give it a shot with no bulb and see what happens, although I would think that would more likely affect Fuse 8, rather than 6, no?
All depends if the wires went into the switch and what they are touching. It's just a thought because it happened to my headlight switch when I replaced the bulb. It did take me a little bit to figure out though. I just started working backwards from what I was working on.
Dave B.
I’m probably misunderstanding the schematic. Maybe the schematic is the back side of the socket? I was looking at it and describing as if looking into the female end of the socket. Here are pictures of what I’ve got...kNo, you are calling them out right, except pins #7 and #10 have light green with stripes (and the red should have an orange stripe). BUT, that doesn't match you schematic...
Here's a schematic with stock wiring, showing the inside of the hazard switch (in both modes).
66407
And again, you can't have stock wiring when the purple is with the black. The only time you will see something like that is when a noise capacitor happens to have a black lead.
JavaRacer
05-26-2021, 11:31 PM
That's not like the schematic you posted or anything I have seen. In any case, purple to black is a dead short.
Note there are green and light green wires...
(still looking...)
I DID have it wrong!! Sorry for that confusion! I was backwards AND upside down!! Okay, so here I have pics correctly oriented to the schematic, this time looking at the BACK of the socket! There are even little numbers conveniently stamped into the socket itself!! So, here's my corrected information!!!
I have power at 4 with the key off. I have power at 5 and 4 with the key in the run position.
66408
66409
I DID have it wrong!! Sorry for that confusion! I was backwards AND upside down!! Okay, so here I have pics correctly oriented to the schematic, this time looking at the BACK of the socket! There are even little numbers conveniently stamped into the socket itself!! So, here's my corrected information!!!
I have power at 4 with the key off. I have power at 5 and 4 with the key in the run position.lol...I should of caught that when you had green with red in the corner instead of green with white..they are actually backwards from the schematics, but it doesn't mater.
Anyway, that leaves the black with purple and the 'extra' yellow. On the full schematic you can see that they are from a noise capacitor.
Power always being on pin #4, and on pin #5 with the key on is normal.
So, we're back to:
...pin #4 is being shorted to ground blowing fuse #6. Pin #6's connection between Pins #4/#5 is swapped when the switch is cycled. When the hazard switch is off, pin #4 is not connected to anything, so suspect a short internal to the hazard switch. Confirm by checking continuity between pins #4 and #7.
JavaRacer
05-27-2021, 09:20 AM
lol...I should of caught that when you had green with red in the corner instead of green with white..they are actually backwards from the schematics, but it doesn't mater.
Anyway, that leaves the black with purple and the 'extra' yellow. On the full schematic you can see that they are from a noise capacitor.
Power always being on pin #4, and on pin #5 with the key on is normal.
So, we're back to: ...pin #4 is being shorted to ground blowing fuse #6. Pin #6's connection between Pins #4/#5 is swapped when the switch is cycled. When the hazard switch is off, pin #4 is not connected to anything, so suspect a short internal to the hazard switch. Confirm by checking continuity between pins #4 and #7.
Okay! Sorry, I had to quickly learn how to use a multimeter. So, I checked the switch and there is no continuity between #4 and #7, however I do get continuity when I turn the switch ON, between #7 and #4, as well as #7 and #5.
I also checked the socket, which gave me .14 between #7 and #4.
Sooo, is my issue in the switch? I'm hoping so, because I feel like there's been a lot of learning these past couple of weeks and I don't know if I have much room left for any more! LOL!
Okay! Sorry, I had to quickly learn how to use a multimeter. So, I checked the switch and there is no continuity between #4 and #7, however I do get continuity when I turn the switch ON, between #7 and #4, as well as #7 and #5.
I also checked the socket, which gave me .14 between #7 and #4.
Sooo, is my issue in the switch? I'm hoping so, because I feel like there's been a lot of learning these past couple of weeks and I don't know if I have much room left for any more! LOL!Are you saying, with the hazard switch unplugged, when you checked there was no continuity between #7 and #4 with the hazard switch off, but there was with the hazard switch on?
And, if I'm following you, you shouldn't put your meter on #7 and #4, when set to continuity (ohms)...that can blow your multimeter (if it doesn't have a protection circuit, which many do not).
JavaRacer
05-27-2021, 10:11 AM
Are you saying, with the hazard switch unplugged, when you checked there was no continuity between #7 and #4 with the hazard switch off, but there was with the hazard switch on?
And, if I'm following you, you shouldn't put your meter on #7 and #4, when set to continuity (ohms)...that can blow your multimeter (if it doesn't have a protection circuit, which many do not).
Yes, that’s correct... with the switch unplugged, on my bench; continuity between 7 and anything with the switch in the off position, continuity between 7-4 and 7-5 with the switch in the on position.
And I switched my meter over to Volts before putting it on the socket, thanks to Hagerty's nice little beginner’s Multi-meter crash course on their YouTube channel. :)
Yes, that’s correct... with the switch unplugged, on my bench; continuity between 7 and anything with the switch in the off position, continuity between 7-4 and 7-5 with the switch in the on position.And I switched my meter over to Volts before putting it on the socket, thanks to Hagerty's nice little beginner’s Multi-meter crash course on their YouTube channel. :)
OK, confirm your wires are as below. Don't worry about the wires for pins 9 and 10 being swapped. (Note I added some missing parts...)
Note that if you follow power from fuse 6, it goes to pin 4. And if the hazard switch connects pin 4 to pin 7 at any time, the black wire will short it to ground (and blow the fuse).
My only concern here is, if the key is on, fuse 4 will send power to pin 5. And if the hazard switch connects pin 4 to pin 5 at that time, fuse 4 should blow, which you are not saying. We need to know why....
Click to enlarge:
66410
P.S. I don't know who to credit for the earlier schematic, but it looks like it is an updated version of Sean's work.
Just reread everything...
Yes, that’s correct... with the switch unplugged, on my bench; continuity between 7 and anything with the switch in the off position, continuity between 7-4 and 7-5 with the switch in the on position.
And I switched my meter over to Volts before putting it on the socket, thanks to Hagerty's nice little beginner’s Multi-meter crash course on their YouTube channel. :)
I sure hope you meant, "..., no continuity between 7 and anything with the switch in the off position,.." :smile:
In which case, the bulb is not connecting pins 7 and 3, as it should be with the hazard switch on or off. It could be blown or not installed correctly, as Dave mentioned....you didn't report back to him on how it went with the bulb removed.
JavaRacer
05-27-2021, 12:53 PM
OK, confirm your wires are as below. Don't worry about the wires for pins 9 and 10 being swapped. (Note I added some missing parts...)
Note that if you follow power from fuse 6, it goes to pin 4. And if the hazard switch connects pin 4 to pin 7 at any time, the black wire will short it to ground (and blow the fuse).
My only concern here is, if the key is on, fuse 4 will send power to pin 5. And if the hazard switch connects pin 4 to pin 5 at that time, fuse 4 should blow, which you are not saying. We need to know why....
Click to enlarge:
66410
P.S. I don't know who to credit for the earlier schematic, but it looks like it is an updated version of Sean's work.
My wires are exactly as shown in the schematic. Thanks!
The earlier schematic was one that you had updated in the Resources Section. I copied it off post #15 in this thread... http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9827-Hazard-Switch-Light-stopped-working/page2
JavaRacer
05-27-2021, 12:57 PM
Just reread everything...
I sure hope you meant, "..., no continuity between 7 and anything with the switch in the off position,.." :smile:
In which case, the bulb is not connecting pins 7 and 3, as it should be with the hazard switch on or off. It could be blown or not installed correctly, as Dave mentioned....you didn't report back to him on how it went with the bulb removed.
I did mean no continuity between 7 and anything when off. Good catch! Thanks!!!
Sorry, Dave! I had skipped your suggestion! I just tried again, without a bulb installed this time, and it blew fuse 6 again. Had previously tried with original incandescent bulb reinstalled and that blew too.
Sheesh! This really blows! :hysterical:
Fuse 4, and all other fuses have remained in tact.
Is this sounding more like a lousy switch reassembly on my part or more like a wiring short somewhere?
JavaRacer
05-27-2021, 01:12 PM
Also, my fuse box cover has been modified with stickers for fuses 4 and 18, if that sheds any light on the fuse 4 situation? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210527/be5eed9a36c825b8cf2c5abc37a1bc37.jpg
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I did mean no continuity between 7 and anything when off. Good catch! Thanks!!!
Sorry, Dave! I had skipped your suggestion! I just tried again, without a bulb installed this time, and it blew fuse 6 again. Had previously tried with original incandescent bulb reinstalled and that blew too.
Sheesh! This really blows! :hysterical:
Fuse 4, and all other fuses have remained in tact.
Is this sounding more like a lousy switch reassembly on my part or more like a wiring short somewhere?LOL!
If it blows fuse 6 with the bulb removed while the hazard switch is in the on AND off position, the switch is bad.
JavaRacer
05-27-2021, 01:36 PM
LOL!
If it blows fuse 6 with the bulb removed while the hazard switch is in the on AND off position, the switch is bad.
Awesome! Thanks for all of the help Ron and Dave!! You guys are the best!!!
Maybe someday I’ll dive into learning how to properly rebuild a switch, but not today! I’ll get a new switch ordered up!
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Also, my fuse box cover has been modified with stickers for fuses 4 and 18, if that sheds any light on the fuse 4 situation?I think that's from the mod/update I mention. The brake light fuse would be inline, down down by the brake pedal/switch and fuse 18 free, iirc.
Awesome! Thanks for all of the help Ron and Dave!! You guys are the best!!!
Maybe someday I’ll dive into learning how to properly rebuild a switch, but not today! I’ll get a new switch ordered up!
You're welcome!
Something you might try- Make a fused (15-20 amp) hot wire and briefly touch it to each terminal in the socket, except pin 4 (switch removed). The fuse should not blow (unless there are other problems). Touching pin 4 should blow the fuse, but don't try it.
WHO1DMC
05-27-2021, 02:13 PM
I wish you good luck with the new switch!
My self if the new switch solves your problems I'd be taking the old one apart just to see what the hell is going on.
Dave B.
I wish you good luck with the new switch!
My self if the new switch solves your problems I'd be taking the old one apart just to see what the hell is going on.
Dave B. LOL I'd have to do it now...
JavaRacer
05-27-2021, 05:04 PM
You're welcome!
Something you might try- Make a fused (15-20 amp) hot wire and briefly touch it to each terminal in the socket, except pin 4 (switch removed). The fuse should not blow (unless there are other problems). Touching pin 4 should blow the fuse, but don't try it.
Great idea, I’ll give it a shot! Thanks again!
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JavaRacer
05-27-2021, 05:08 PM
I wish you good luck with the new switch!
My self if the new switch solves your problems I'd be taking the old one apart just to see what the hell is going on.
Dave B.
Hahaha! Yep! I’ve taken the switch apart and reassembled it a god number of times but haven’t really tried to break down the mechanics of what’s happening electrically in there. But heck, I think now that I’ve got all the info above, I should be able to figure it out! I’ll snap pics and update when I get to it!
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