Broken tailing arm mounting bolt. How to replace?

[jangell]

I was having some electrical issues where the battery light would flash when I hit a bump, so I decided to check and clean the main battery and the various ground connections. Everything looked fine when I got to the battery cable that runs to the passenger side trailing arm, but I figured I'd clean it anyway.

Of course, I'd never removed this bolt before, and I didn't look at the note on the DeLorean.com (http://support.delorean.com/kb/a72/trailing-arm-bolts.aspx) that mentioned the second locking nut on the back that must be removed first, so I sheered the head of the bolt of.

As I would really prefer not to pull the body off the frame, I'm wondering if anyone can provide any tips on how to fix this.

Thanks

-- Joe

665286652966530

[WHO1DMC]

I was having some electrical issues where the battery light would flash when I hit a bump, so I decided to check and clean the main battery and the various ground connections. Everything looked fine when I got to the battery cable that runs to the passenger side trailing arm, but I figured I'd clean it anyway.

Of course, I'd never removed this bolt before, and I didn't look at the note on the DeLorean.com (http://support.delorean.com/kb/a72/trailing-arm-bolts.aspx) that mentioned the second locking nut on the back that must be removed first, so I sheered the head of the bolt of.

As I would really prefer not to pull the body off the frame, I'm wondering if anyone can provide any tips on how to fix this.

Thanks

-- Joe

665286652966530

This is just a thought not knowing how much room there is to work with.
Myself I would finish taking it apart to get a better look at the bolt. Than spray penetrating oil the side that's broken off. I would then use the locking nut as the head and work it out the back side.


Dave B.

[jangell]

This is just a thought not knowing how much room there is to work with.
Myself I would finish taking it apart to get a better look at the bolt. Than spray penetrating oil the side that's broken off. I would then use the locking nut as the head and work it out the back side.

Dave B.

Thanks. Unfortunately, there is basically no space in there. I’m going to hose it down with penetrant and see if I can make progress next weekend. I’m hoping that once I get the lock nut loose that the broken part will spin freely, but we’ll see.

After positing I stumbled onto another thread where someone had a similar problem. It seems some solutions are to chisel off both bolts, EZ Out the broken bolt, or straight drill it out. I’m tempted to try wedding a nut on as a new bolt head, but I’m not entirely sure that will work. Of course I have an automatic transmission, so there’s even less space there than there could be.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5519-HELP!-Broke-off-Bolt-that-holds-Negative-Battery-cable

— Joe

[WHO1DMC]

Thanks. Unfortunately, there is basically no space in there. I’m going to hose it down with penetrant and see if I can make progress next weekend. I’m hoping that once I get the lock nut loose that the broken part will spin freely, but we’ll see.

After positing I stumbled onto another thread where someone had a similar problem. It seems some solutions are to chisel off both bolts, EZ Out the broken bolt, or straight drill it out. I’m tempted to try wedding a nut on as a new bolt head, but I’m not entirely sure that will work. Of course I have an automatic transmission, so there’s even less space there than there could be.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5519-HELP!-Broke-off-Bolt-that-holds-Negative-Battery-cable

— Joe


If you had access to a welder you could weld a nut on. If you don't well I don't either. I would than try to use apoxy that bonds metal and try and glue one on. Last resort drill it and use a easy out.


I have no more ideas.
Dave B.

[jangell]

If you had access to a welder you weld a nut on. If you don't well I don't either. I would than try to use apoxy that bonds metal and try and glue one on. Last resort drill it and use a easy out.

I do have a welder, although I've never tried the "weld a nut on" trick. I previously only had oxyacetylene, but that outputs to much waste heat to try that. I have a basic electric welder know that could probably do it. I'm mostly worried that I might accidentally weld the nut to the mount or the broken bolt to the frame if I'm not careful, and then have a whole new problem.

I am tempted to liquify the broken bolt with my oxy gear, but that would probably wreck the trailing arm bushing, so I probably shouldn't' do that.


I have no more ideas.
Dave B.

We're in the same boat then. :)

I think I need to take the trailing arm off the of the trailing arm bolt (but not the hub carrier) to get better access, although I don't know if there are things to worry about related to the suspension system itself. Like, is this arm under tension from the spring, and I have to be very careful removing it?

I have a friend who's a mechanic who is going to assist me next Sunday, but I want to get as much information as I can before then.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[Ron]

First, I've never had to do this job... But if you got the nut off, wouldn't the remainder of the bolt still be stuck in the hole? or is there something else threaded I'm missing or ??

[Bitsyncmaster]

Try removing the nut now. It may just pull the broken bolt out when you do it as long as there is room for it and the nut.

[jangell]

There is barely enough room to get a box wrench past the end of the bolt and onto the nut, so I can’t pull the bolt out that way, unfortunately. But if I can get the nut loose (apparently there isn’t enough room to get it all the way off), maybe I can spin the bolt out enough with vice grips to then grab the broken end with more vice grips and pull it out that way, possibly?

Actually getting a wrench on the nut is proving to be a challenge, too. My offset wrenches are too steep (70 degree or something, and my normal wrenches are too shallow of an angle to fit. It’s very annoying.

— Joe

[Jason]

I think I need to take the trailing arm off the of the trailing arm bolt (but not the hub carrier) to get better access, although I don't know if there are things to worry about related to the suspension system itself. Like, is this arm under tension from the spring, and I have to be very careful removing it?


I've removed my trailing arm to do some frame repair. It's under some tension from the suspension geometry and it's own weight, but nothing major. Probably best, and not hard, to remove the arm completely. I would just make sure to have one hand on the arm holding it in place when you remove the bolts, and keep fingers clear so they don't get pinched if things move unexpectedly.

[Helirich]

I will assume you have a automatic. Which I can't help you. (No experince) I've replaced both bolts on my manual.

[Josh]

I will assume you have a automatic. Which I can't help you. (No experince) I've replaced both bolts on my manual.

Thank you for your wisdom. Why even bother commenting.

This is tricky, there is a nut behind there as well. I would do this:

-Continue removal, but entirely remove the trailing arm. The other bolt may break too, soak everything in penetrant as a first step. Including the broken bolt.
-You can leave the rest of the suspension in place but there might be some prying to get the trailing arm out. You will also need to disconnect the brake line. Since you have ed's brakes the flex line may give you enough flexibility to keep it sealed.
-Once everything is out of the way, try to remove the bolt from behind. There is a nut on the backside as a secondary measure, it might work in your favor. Do not take it all the way out, just enough to get it turning. From here you can get it the rest of the way out with a dremel and an easy out.
-If it does not spin and or there is not a nut on the backside you will need to drill it out. You will need a right angle drill, a cut down drill bit and lots of patience (I know you have this)

This wont be fun but you are capable. Once again use lots of penetrant before hand.

[Josh]

If you had access to a welder you could weld a nut on. If you don't well I don't either. I would than try to use apoxy that bonds metal and try and glue one on. Last resort drill it and use a easy out.


I have no more ideas.
Dave B.

Since the base material (frame) is also steel welding a nut on will cause more trouble.

[WHO1DMC]

Since the base material (frame) is also steel welding a nut on will cause more trouble.

This is a common practice. Everything would have to be removed. Than hoping there are a few threads to play with you put a nut on those threads. Than than weld the back side of the nut. The heat would also help break the threads loose.

Like I said it's a idea.
Dave B.

[Helirich]

Since the base material (frame) is also steel welding a nut on will cause more trouble.

Thankyou for your wisdom when you obviously don't know shit about what your talking about. Welding a nut on a broken stud is done all the time. (Regardless of the base metal.) Why do you even bother commenting?

[Josh]

I know it is done commonly, and I have done it myself. but I am recommending against it for Joe. We have worked together in the past and I know his strengths and the tools he has available. You guys are very crabby today.
Furthermore you can see there is a nyloc nut on the backside already, there is no need to weld on a nut as one is already present.

Maybe you should worry about fixing your own car Helirich and getting home instead of commenting on a forum.

Sincerely,

Josh "don't know shit" Schattenkirk

[Helirich]

I know it is done commonly, and I have done it myself. but I am recommending against it for Joe. We have worked together in the past and I know his strengths and the tools he has available. You guys are very crabby today.
Furthermore you can see there is a nyloc nut on the backside already, there is no need to weld on a nut as one is already present.

Maybe you should worry about fixing your own car Helirich and getting home instead of commenting on a forum.

Sincerely,

Josh "don't know shit" Schattenkirk

Let me get this straight.
You knew it is done commonly and you decided to lie. You also know Joe and you decided that he doesn't have the talent to do it. Since you obviously are the supreme authority, he shouldn't even practice on scrap piece to see if it's a possibility. We're crabby because we disagree with you, even when you're lying.

Furthermore, he shouldn't weld a nut on because there's a nylock on the other side. Did you possibly consider the reason to weld a nut on is to make a bolt head so he can remove the nylock? Not sure what you're experince is, but I found that the bolt can only be removed/installed from one side. So the nylock is no help to him right now.

So I should stop posting if my car has anything wrong with it? Why didn't you stop posting when you're car was broke for months? In fact, some might ask, why are you selling parts to convert others cars when yours is broke from your modifications? Maybe you should test stuff before selling it to others.

[Mark D]

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=66555&d=1623777904

[jangell]

Anyway...

I'm waiting for some new wrenches to arrive that will hopefully let me get a better grip on the nylock. I also can't find my needle nose vice grips (in case the wrenches fail to work for some reason), so I'm getting those, too. In the meantime, I've sprayed everything down with penetrant.

For welding on a nut to replace the broken bolt head, I have not done such a thing before, but now that I have electric welding gear now (a simple wire-fed MIG-style non-gas welder) I'm willing to try. I didn't realize that when doing this you try to have a bit of the bolt sticking out of the hole still so that you can weld the nut in place, though. That makes sense, since it makes it less likely to accidentally weld the bolt to the frame. Of course, mine is snapped flush. But once I (hopefully) get the nylock off, I can spin the bolt shaft out a bit and try to get a nut on the end and tack weld it to spin it out the rest of the way, or just spin it out by hand if its loose enough.

I would definitely not try this with my old oxyfuel gear. And while liquifying the bolt is tempting, I'd probably just weld the plate to frame, ruin the bushing, and make it impossible to run a new bolt through, so I won't be doing that.

I also thought of hitting it with a torch to heat it up and break it loose (if it winds up being stuck, that is; still haven't gotten a wrench on the nylock), but I'm afraid of damaging the bushing with the heat from the torch.

The other (frontmost) bolt on the bushing mount is in very good shape, and still shiny. The broken (rearmost) one was rusty, so I just thought it was stuck and didn't realize the jam nut was there. I'd prefer not to remove the good bolt as well, as I can't even see the nut with the automatic transmission in the way. The jam nut on the bolt I broke is visible and sort of accessible from both sides of the frame, so if I had to break one, it seems I chose the "easy" one.

I'd also prefer not to completely remove the trailing arm (meaning, detaching it from the hub carrier), since I don't want to have to bleed the brake system again (I just did it two months ago). I'm hoping that pulling it off the TAB will give me enough clearance to get access enough to the head side of what's left of the bolt, and better access to reach the nylock behind it. But it may come to that if it seems like I'm going to damage the brake line or I can't get the arm far enough out of the way with it still attached.

At worst, I've ordered a cheap air chisel that I'll probably only ever use this once for use with my very basic air compressor. I tend to favor electric tools, but the air chisel was $25 and a demolition hammer (the closest thing I could find to "electric air chisel") is $200, so for one use I'll got the chisel. This is as a last resort, if all else fails. Then I'll just put a nut and a nylock on the back of the new bolt and call it a day.

Thanks everyone

-- Joe

[Josh]

Let me get this straight.
You knew it is done commonly and you decided to lie. You also know Joe and you decided that he doesn't have the talent to do it. Since you obviously are the supreme authority, he shouldn't even practice on scrap piece to see if it's a possibility. We're crabby because we disagree with you, even when you're lying.

Furthermore, he shouldn't weld a nut on because there's a nylock on the other side. Did you possibly consider the reason to weld a nut on is to make a bolt head so he can remove the nylock? Not sure what you're experince is, but I found that the bolt can only be removed/installed from one side. So the nylock is no help to him right now.

So I should stop posting if my car has anything wrong with it? Why didn't you stop posting when you're car was broke for months? In fact, some might ask, why are you selling parts to convert others cars when yours is broke from your modifications? Maybe you should test stuff before selling it to others.

:tantrum:

[Helirich]

For welding on a nut to replace the broken bolt head, I have not done such a thing before, but now that I have electric welding gear now (a simple wire-fed MIG-style non-gas welder) I'm willing to try. I didn't realize that when doing this you try to have a bit of the bolt sticking out of the hole still so that you can weld the nut in place, though. That makes sense, since it makes it less likely to accidentally weld the bolt to the frame. Of course, mine is snapped flush. But once I (hopefully) get the nylock off, I can spin the bolt shaft out a bit and try to get a nut on the end and tack weld it to spin it out the rest of the way, or just spin it out by hand if its loose enough.

-- Joe

It would be nice to have it sticking out, but that is rarely the case. I've seen it done where the bolt was broke off under flush. I held a nut with a pair of vicegrips while my friend welded up the center. I remember saying "congratulations, you got it to stick, but no way your going to unthread that." He sure chuckled as he removed it.

In your case, it might be that the tab is slightly bent. (I've heard that happens sometimes) If so, it will be extremely difficult to remove. Let's all hope that's not the case. As I said earlier, practice on a scrap nut/bolt.

Keep us posted.

[jangell]

Cool, good to know that I might be able to weld on the nut without anything sticking out. I'd just have to be very careful not to miss and accidentally weld the bolt to the frame. :) But I'm going to try to just spin it out from behind first. With luck I'll be able to get it all the way out, but if it's super tedious to do a bunch of tiny turns I might try to weld the nut on anyway. I'm not exactly a great welder, but this doesn't have to be pretty as long as its accurate.

This isn't the TAB itself that's broken, but one of the two M8 bolts for the trailing arm mount where the ground wire attaches. The DMC site said "removing the body from the frame" is how it's fixed, and I really don't want to do that, hence the thread.

Thanks!

-- Joe

[Nicholas R]

In fact, some might ask, why are you selling parts to convert others cars when yours is broke from your modifications? Maybe you should test stuff before selling it to others.

Seeing as I've worked with Josh on some of these parts for the last 6 years, I've got to come to defense on this. You have no idea what you're talking about. These swap parts are the most refined and high quality parts available for engine swapping a DeLorean. There is no comparison. The design and engineering have been done. It is a drop in swap. I know this, because I would have killed for these parts back when I did my swap. You want to talk about "testing stuff?" Josh's and my cars engine swaps collectively have nearly a hundred thousand miles on them (admittedly the majority of which are Josh's miles). That's not even considering all of the other cars with Josh's swap parts. That's a hell of a lot more miles than the majority of owner's cars see.

[Helirich]

Seeing as I've worked with Josh on some of these parts for the last 6 years, I've got to come to defense on this. You have no idea what you're talking about. These swap parts are the most refined and high quality parts available for engine swapping a DeLorean. There is no comparison. The design and engineering have been done. It is a drop in swap. I know this, because I would have killed for these parts back when I did my swap. You want to talk about "testing stuff?" Josh's and my cars engine swaps collectively have nearly a hundred thousand miles on them (admittedly the majority of which are Josh's miles). That's not even considering all of the other cars with Josh's swap parts. That's a hell of a lot more miles than the majority of owner's cars see.

You missed my point. I said "some might ask". I did not say I agree with them. I think anybody considering such a swap must know the experimental nature. But I assure you there are people that hold those views.

But the point was nothing to do with that. He is suggesting that I shouldn't comment because my windshield wipers dont work. Really? Do you agree with that logic? I don't care if his car is sitting at the bottom of the ocean, he still could give good advice on some subject here. And so could I. His constant childish attacks on me is really getting old. He's a spoiled brat that thinks that he should be the sole judge of everything that is said on this forum.

I will say that he has been able to goad me into playing his childish games. Not very adult of me. In the future I intend to draft a standard response to his nonsense that I can just "copy and paste". That way, hopefully it won't turn others off to this forum.

[steve]

:jawdrop: I have been told to shut my PIE HOLE by our illustrious Admin. Ron for far lesser expression of thought.

So I ask why is this allowed to go on? Ron

[leroylem]

:jawdrop: I have been told to shut my PIE HOLE by our illustrious Admin. Ron for far lesser expression of thought.

So I ask why is this allowed to go on? Ron

Agree---should not be allowed---we only need helpful informative information shared here in a respectful manner.

[Ron]

:jawdrop: I have been told to shut my PIE HOLE by our illustrious Admin. Ron for far lesser expression of thought.

So I ask why is this allowed to go on? Ron
What are you talking about? Show me a link where this happened. (Then I'll tell you.)

[Ron]

Well?

[Josh]

You missed my point. I said "some might ask". I did not say I agree with them. I think anybody considering such a swap must know the experimental nature. But I assure you there are people that hold those views.

But the point was nothing to do with that. He is suggesting that I shouldn't comment because my windshield wipers dont work. Really? Do you agree with that logic? I don't care if his car is sitting at the bottom of the ocean, he still could give good advice on some subject here. And so could I. His constant childish attacks on me is really getting old. He's a spoiled brat that thinks that he should be the sole judge of everything that is said on this forum.

I will say that he has been able to goad me into playing his childish games. Not very adult of me. In the future I intend to draft a standard response to his nonsense that I can just "copy and paste". That way, hopefully it won't turn others off to this forum.

I've never met someone as oblivious as you. I think this is the most polite way to put it. If one single person is "turning others off to this forum" it would be yourself. But I know you will not agree with me on this one. I have been here since 2013, and many others much longer before me (old forum) but yet just in the recent months of your posting have these "disputes" come up. Seems to me its you.

[dn010]

Well. I'd bet money helicopter was at one time one of those kids that screamed out a random answer in school regardless of being called upon, knowing the answer or even having a question pending. If there was a list of the top three most pleasant members of this forum, you'd be right up there among Shep and Bill R. In no other forum have I seen someone join just to post random nonsense ("I assume you're working on a DeLorean and while I have no advice - that really sucks, good luck with that broken bolt!"). Typically one posts when they have useful advice or experiences, not when you just can't help yourself just like back in school.

To the OP, as suggested you need to get the nut off the back of the bolt and I'd bet the whole thing will come out with it. This is one of those areas where I heated up and bent a cheap harbor wrench just to comfortably reach these bolts/nuts so you might look into doing same.

[Ron]

Having discussed this thread with the OP, we are happy to announce that it has served its purpose and will be closed.

It seems that those participating in the banter have potentially come to a point of understanding.
If not, please keep it out of other threads (continue via PM if you must) -- Fair Warning, it has gone on too much and the hatchet is out by popular demand.


EDIT:

Just wanted to post the end result from my now-closed thread:


Getting the Broken Bolt Out

To fix the broken trailing arm bolt, I got some 45 degree offset wrenches that allowed me to break the jam nut free, then used a normal box wrench to get the nut the rest of the way off.

Unfortunately, I could not get vice grips on the remains of the bolt, or at least not enough to turn it. I resigned to removing the trailing arm. That wasn't actually too bad, but my hopes of not draining the brake system were crushed when I found that I couldn't get the trailing arm out of the way. I disconnected the line at the trailing arm so I could set the arm assigned. I knocked off some flaking epoxy and POR-15'ed it while it was out.

I then had to go out and buy a 90 degree power drill and a series of cobalt drill bits so I could drill out the bolt. I used some cutting fluid for good measures, and it actually worked pretty well, and I got through the bolt fairly quickly (although not quite straight).

I then made the mistake of using an EZ Out, which I only succeeded in snapping off in the bolt.

As expected, drilling had no effect on the EZ Out, but an hour or two with a Dremel and some grinding bits did disintegrate it. This worked much better than trying to drill it. I switched back to successively larger drill bits to finish off the bolt, and at one point it the bolt itself started spinning. I still couldn't get vice grips on it, so I used another EZ Out. This also snapped, but not before spinning enough of the bolt out that I could unscrew it by hand.

...

Thanks again to everyone for the help!

-- Joe